Time to upgrade the Klipsch R10SW.. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Time to upgrade the Klipsch R10SW..

Room size: 16x16x10 with open concept into small kitchen.

Currently I'm running a 4.1 setup which won't likely change any time soon as it's just the wife and I enjoying movies, but I upgraded to JBL 590s last year and now the only thing left is the poor Klipsch R10SW sub. I know people generally recommend 15" for this size room, but I'm really trying to assess what will be "approved" as an upgrade. I've tried to prod the idea of the VTF-3 MK5 to the wife and get "the look" since it's never on sale more than $30 like right now which makes it about $900 shipped.

Is it completely useless to think of simply getting the Klipsch 112SW (their non reference line) which is on sale for $400 right now and just wait til I manage to muster up the $900? This could take years, so I'd like some advice on if the 112SW will just blow the socks off the R10SW (reference pos) or if I should just keep waiting until approval to blow $900 on a sub?

We like to watch the Marvel movies and other things like John Wick at around -7db and the current sub seems to output enough bass to make the wife not think we need an upgrade.

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post #2 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Majicpanda View Post
Room size: 16x16x10 with open concept into small kitchen.



Currently I'm running a 4.1 setup which won't likely change any time soon as it's just the wife and I enjoying movies, but I upgraded to JBL 590s last year and now the only thing left is the poor Klipsch R10SW sub. I know people generally recommend 15" for this size room, but I'm really trying to assess what will be "approved" as an upgrade. I've tried to prod the idea of the VTF-3 MK5 to the wife and get "the look" since it's never on sale more than $30 like right now which makes it about $900 shipped.



Is it completely useless to think of simply getting the Klipsch 112SW (their non reference line) which is on sale for $400 right now and just wait til I manage to muster up the $800? This could take years, so I'd like some advice on if the 112SW will just blows the socks off the R10SW (reference pos) or if I should just keep waiting until approval to blow $800 on a sub?



We like to watch the Marvel movies and other things like John Wick at around -7db and the current sub seems to output enough bass to make the wife not think we need an upgrade.


Do you live near a Fry's? If so you can just keep an eye out for the klipsh 15" for 500ish


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post #3 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you live near a Fry's? If so you can just keep an eye out for the klipsh 15" for 500ish
Unfortunately no, I watch their sales come and go constantly with no way to take advantage.
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post #4 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 10:02 AM
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Unfortunately no, I watch their sales come and go constantly with no way to take advantage.


Well personally I would wait and save for something special! U get what u pay for


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post #5 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 10:12 AM
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Are you planning on going duals or no? My rooms a tad smaller then yours.. My dual monolith 12s slam..

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post #6 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Are you planning on going duals or no? My rooms a tad smaller then yours.. My dual monolith 12s slam..

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Probably not, the living room is oddly shaped and barely have room for the 10" where it is right now under the fireplace.
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post #7 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 11:12 AM
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Klipsch speakers are absolutely wonderful and I love them, just look at my sig, but their subs are so underwhelming. I'd recommend Power Sound Audio (PSA) subs as I love mine, something along the lines of the V1510DF would fit your needs perfectly.

Theater: JVC RS540U, 2.35:1 142" screen, Onkyo RZ1100, Panasonic UB820, Outlaw Audio M2200 Monoblock x3, Klipsch RF7II, RC64II, RS62II, 5800CII x4 Atmos, PSA V3611 Subwoofer x2.
2 Channel: Parasound P6, Parasound A23+, Rega Planar 6 with Ortofon 2M Bronze, Klispch La Scala II.
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post #8 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 12:15 PM
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The best compromise for you and your wife would probably be the HSU VTF-2mk5. It sells for $607/shipped when not on sale and it's not as big as similar 12" subs like SVS PB2000 and Monolith TXH Ultra 12. Plus it's substantially lower priced.
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post #9 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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The best compromise for you and your wife would probably be the HSU VTF-2mk5. It sells for $607/shipped when not on sale and it's not as big as similar 12" subs like SVS PB2000 and Monolith TXH Ultra 12. Plus it's substantially lower priced.
This was a consideration but still too expensive. It's basically a 112SW for $400 or just deal with my horrific 10" R10SW til I can get a VTF-3 MK5 it sounds ;P

Honestly... I had a feeling the consensus would be to just save up and not even bother, but for some reason I had to ask. If I purchased a VTF-2 MK5 I'd honestly always wonder what the 3 sounded like and not be able to live with myself. That's why I went JBL 590s instead of 580s
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post #10 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Majicpanda View Post
This was a consideration but still too expensive. It's basically a 112SW for $400 or just deal with my horrific 10" R10SW til I can get a VTF-3 MK5 it sounds ;P

Honestly... I had a feeling the consensus would be to just save up and not even bother, but for some reason I had to ask. If I purchased a VTF-2 MK5 I'd honestly always wonder what the 3 sounded like and not be able to live with myself. That's why I went JBL 590s instead of 580s
Save up and get what you want. Also watch classifieds near you for deals.
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post #11 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 02:12 PM
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I would assume that if you buy the new sub it’s something you’re going to use for a very long time (7-10 years) as long as it’s still working right?

Subs aren’t like other equipments like AVRs, TVs, Graphics Cards etc where there’s major changes every couple years or so that makes what you have obsolete

In that sense if I was you I’d buy the better quality sub now, because if you buy anything else you’ll end up still buying something again soon because of not being satisfied.

I don’t have a wife so I can never understand the whole wide having to approve thing.... is she giving you the money or loaning it to you?
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post #12 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 02:19 PM
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I would assume that if you buy the new sub it’s something you’re going to use for a very long time (7-10 years) as long as it’s still working right?



Subs aren’t like other equipments like AVRs, TVs, Graphics Cards etc where there’s major changes every couple years or so that makes what you have obsolete



In that sense if I was you I’d buy the better quality sub now, because if you buy anything else you’ll end up still buying something again soon because of not being satisfied.



I don’t have a wife so I can never understand the whole wide having to approve thing.... is she giving you the money or loaning it to you?
Most family's share money and pay lotsa bills.. Some people have more money then others obviously.. I kinda feel that question was for attention..

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post #13 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 02:54 PM
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If budget and size rules out a 15" then any upgrade will just be marginal under $500. The Speedwoofer ($399 shipped) is one of the best subs imo in your size and price range. Keep in mind you will not get much extension below 30Hz but it does have nice sound and punch.
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Start a personal fund for the sub and save until you get the 900.
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post #15 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 03:12 PM
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Well personally I would wait and save for something special! U get what u pay for


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If budget and size rules out a 15" then any upgrade will just be marginal under $500. The Speedwoofer ($399 shipped) is one of the best subs imo in your size and price range. Keep in mind you will not get much extension below 30Hz but it does have nice sound and punch.

+1 to both above quotes.
Buy once, cry once! Much cheaper in the long run


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post #16 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 07:03 PM
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This was a consideration but still too expensive. It's basically a 112SW for $400 or just deal with my horrific 10" R10SW til I can get a VTF-3 MK5 it sounds ;P

Honestly... I had a feeling the consensus would be to just save up and not even bother, but for some reason I had to ask. If I purchased a VTF-2 MK5 I'd honestly always wonder what the 3 sounded like and not be able to live with myself. That's why I went JBL 590s instead of 580s

Probably would have been a better decision to get the 580's and take the money saved to go towards a quality subwoofer. What are you using to drive the 590's?

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
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post #17 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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If budget and size rules out a 15" then any upgrade will just be marginal under $500. The Speedwoofer ($399 shipped) is one of the best subs imo in your size and price range. Keep in mind you will not get much extension below 30Hz but it does have nice sound and punch.
I'm not sure I've ever heard a home theater setup with a nice sub or what I'm missing out on. There are no useful stores nearby with listening rooms.

It's either the 112SW on sale for $400 or full in on a vtf-3 mk5 so if the 112SW isn't that huge an upgrade from a 10SW I'll have to take the wife on a nice vacation

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post #18 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Probably would have been a better decision to get the 580's and take the money saved to go towards a quality subwoofer. What are you using to drive the 590's?
It's not really like that, it's more trying to justify dropping almost a grand on a sub when I spent around $4k last year on home theater stuff. I got super crafty and sold tech laying around to cover a lot of that expense.

I've got a Denon X3400H for my current 4.1 setup.

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post #19 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Well that's the last time I reply from my phone... not really in the mood to correct all that.
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post #20 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 08:08 PM
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Cant understand a word with the last two posts???

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post #21 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 08:25 PM
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It's not really like that, it's more trying to justify dropping almost a grand on a sub when I spent around $4k last year on home theater stuff. I got super crafty and sold tech laying around to cover a lot of that expense.

I've got a Denon X3400H for my current 4.1 setup.

For a home theater system, the subwoofer and center channel are the most important components. If it's going to take you years to get a subwoofer around 1K, then I think you really misappropriated your $4,000 you've already spent. 4K is a pretty good chunk of change spent to be sitting with a 4.1 system that is badly in need of a subwoofer upgrade. The Denon X3400 is a solid mid-range receiver, but probably doesn't have the cojones to properly power the JBL Studio 590's.

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post #22 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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For a home theater system, the subwoofer and center channel are the most important components. If it's going to take you years to get a subwoofer around 1K, then I think you really misappropriated your $4,000 you've already spent. 4K is a pretty good chunk of change spent to be sitting with a 4.1 system that is badly in need of a subwoofer upgrade. The Denon X3400 is a solid mid-range receiver, but probably doesn't have the cojones to properly power the JBL Studio 590's.
You have an insane amount of posts but I experimented with many centers and ultimately felt the 590s provided a more than adequate phantom center. It's just the wife and I and I hated all the dialog coming out of a center when all we do is sit dead center.

The 590s are 6ohm 92db rated and the receiver can push anything down to 4ohm, but we rarely ever listen to anything over 80db (or -7db on the receiver). The x3400H would fall apart over 90db or trying to push them. Just a family room, no dedicated HT room.
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post #23 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 08:52 PM
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I'm pretty sure running your 590's full band will give you at least 75% of any sub under $400,,, now whether your avr can handle that is another question depending on MV and ventilation for your avr. A good sub is an absolute game changer,,, its up to you and your wife to make that decision.

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post #24 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 08:59 PM
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You have an insane amount of posts but I experimented with many centers and ultimately felt the 590s provided a more than adequate phantom center. It's just the wife and I and I hated all the dialog coming out of a center when all we do is sit dead center.

The 590s are 6ohm 92db rated and the receiver can push anything down to 4ohm, but we rarely ever listen to anything over 80db (or -7db on the receiver). The x3400H would fall apart over 90db or trying to push them. Just a family room, no dedicated HT room.

Nothing wrong with deciding what you like and going with it. Left and right speakers used in phantom mode should image the dialogue dead center when properly set up/placed anyway. The weakness with phantom mode is there is that one sweet spot dead center and anything to the sides of that lose that centered dialogue. There are other negatives with phantom center like not being able to adjust the dialogue volume independently from the main speakers, since it's all coming from the main speakers.


Anyway, if you listen at low levels maybe you can just run the S590's full band and worry about a subwoofer later. It doesn't sound like you would be able to get a capable sub for several years, so I would just disconnect the Klipsch R-10, sell it, put that money in a glass jar for your subwoofer fund down the road. I used to have the Jamo J-12, which is the sister sub of the R-10's big brother, the R-12. The R-112 will be an improvement, but no way I would pay $400 for it. A few weeks back the Monolith THX Select 10 was $375 and is in a complete other league. Save your money, be patient and get something worth while.

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post #25 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure running your 590's full band will give you at least 75% of any sub under $400,,, now whether your avr can handle that is another question depending on MV and ventilation for your avr. A good sub is an absolute game changer,,, its up to you and your wife to make that decision.
I did attempt to run the 590s full band and it didn't sound very good at all. Is it possible that they were drawing way too much power from the AVR in that mode to really make the dual woofers hit? I'm not sure if that's how it works or if setting a crossover on them to say 80hz instead of 100hz would cause them to draw more power etc.
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post #26 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyway, if you listen at low levels maybe you can just run the S590's full band and worry about a subwoofer later. It doesn't sound like you would be able to get a capable sub for several years, so I would just disconnect the Klipsch R-10, sell it, put that money in a glass jar for your subwoofer fund down the road. I used to have the Jamo J-12, which is the sister sub of the R-10's big brother, the R-12. The R-112 will be an improvement, but no way I would pay $400 for it. A few weeks back the Monolith THX Select 10 was $375 and is in a complete other league. Save your money, be patient and get something worth while.
-7db is considered low? I feel like I'm blowing my living room out of the house at that level. We basically aim to re-create theater experience and the 590s definitely fill the room. Sub just got left in the dust on the upgrade.. Appreciate the feedback, seems like I'll just wait til I can swing a vtf-3 mk5 even if it takes 10 years lol.
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post #27 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 09:11 PM
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I did attempt to run the 590s full band and it didn't sound very good at all. Is it possible that they were drawing way too much power from the AVR in that mode to really make the dual woofers hit? I'm not sure if that's how it works or if setting a crossover on them to say 80hz instead of 100hz would cause them to draw more power etc.

If you are running the 590's full band there is no crossover in play. They aren't drawing too much power, more like not enough. Like I mentioned earlier, the Denon you have may not be up to the task of properly powering the 590's. Many who run them use dedicated amps with the power needed. The good news, or maybe not so good news if you don't have the funds, is the X3400 has a full set of pre-outs if you should so choose to use them with a dedicated amp.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
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post #28 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 09:15 PM
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Sup Panda, glad to hear those 590’s are working well, I’m in the same subwoofer boat as you at the moment, haven’t pulled the trigger yet but I am seriously considering the Klipsch R115SW (on sale on Amazon for $599). Brent Butterworth gave it a pretty decent review and he knows subs pretty well. https://hometheaterreview.com/klipsc...ofer-reviewed/

Not the end all subwoofer but dang good, very clear snappy bass with fairly strong low frequency output.

Almost half the price of the “big boys” and handsome to boot imho.

Also keep your eye on SVS’s site on 4th of July, they tend to have pretty good discounts in their outlet section, might get a pb-2000 for $6-650.

I feel my upgrade itis will eventually get the better of me and I’m going to end up buying a $1000+ subwoofer. I kind of idolized the
pb-13 ultra when I got started and the styling is my favorite, I don’t think I’ll really be satisfied until I at least try one, (or the PB-4000).

Best of luck in not going broke on subs. I’ve managed to get 40-50% off retail on virtually every component of my system, but with subwoofers it seems it’s going to steal every bit of those saving back...

The truth is like fertilizer, it’s crappy but it helps you grow...
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post #29 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gt4viper View Post
Sup Panda, glad to hear those 590’s are working well, I’m in the same subwoofer boat as you at the moment, haven’t pulled the trigger yet but I am seriously considering the Klipsch R115SW (on sale on Amazon for $599). Brent Butterworth gave it a pretty decent review and he knows subs pretty well. https://hometheaterreview.com/klipsc...ofer-reviewed/

Not the end all subwoofer but dang good, very clear snappy bass with fairly strong low frequency output.

Almost half the price of the “big boys” and handsome to boot imho.

Also keep your eye on SVS’s site on 4th of July, they tend to have pretty good discounts in their outlet section, might get a pb-2000 for $6-650.

I feel my upgrade itis will eventually get the better of me and I’m going to end up buying a $1000+ subwoofer. I kind of idolized the
pb-13 ultra when I got started and the styling is my favorite, I don’t think I’ll really be satisfied until I at least try one, (or the PB-4000).

Best of luck in not going broke on subs. I’ve managed to get 40-50% off retail on virtually every component of my system, but with subwoofers it seems it’s going to steal every bit of those saving back...

If you are considering the Klipsch R-115 for $600, also look at the HSU VTF-2 mk5 for about the same money. Even though the HSU is a 12", it has very similar performance as the R-115, with more extension capability and operation modes. Plus the Klipsch subs aren't known for reliability, to put it lightly. The HSU will also take up less floor space.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
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post #30 of 32 Old 06-16-2019, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gt4viper View Post
Sup Panda, glad to hear those 590’s are working well, I’m in the same subwoofer boat as you at the moment, haven’t pulled the trigger yet but I am seriously considering the Klipsch R115SW (on sale on Amazon for $599). Brent Butterworth gave it a pretty decent review and he knows subs pretty well. https://hometheaterreview.com/klipsc...ofer-reviewed/

Not the end all subwoofer but dang good, very clear snappy bass with fairly strong low frequency output.

Almost half the price of the “big boys” and handsome to boot imho.

Also keep your eye on SVS’s site on 4th of July, they tend to have pretty good discounts in their outlet section, might get a pb-2000 for $6-650.

I feel my upgrade itis will eventually get the better of me and I’m going to end up buying a $1000+ subwoofer. I kind of idolized the
pb-13 ultra when I got started and the styling is my favorite, I don’t think I’ll really be satisfied until I at least try one, (or the PB-4000).

Best of luck in not going broke on subs. I’ve managed to get 40-50% off retail on virtually every component of my system, but with subwoofers it seems it’s going to steal every bit of those saving back...
Haha hey man long time no see I would have to agree with the below regarding the VTF-2 MK5 suggestion. The $400 "budget" sub of the 112SW is kind of in a boat of its own at that price point but once you start going towards $600 I think I would steer clear of the 115SW and instead go with the HSU. I was tempted to do it but ultimately... it appears I'm going to just wait around until I can afford the "end of all subs" VTF-3 MK5 and just deal with this for now.

What kind of power you got pushing your 590s? I don't think they're starving for anything at 70db but I'm sure plenty other 590 owners could weigh in.
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