Upgrade from old aperion sub - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 06-23-2019, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Upgrade from old aperion sub

I've got a 12 year old Aperion S10 sub I'm looking to upgrade. I thought I had settled on SVS PB-2000, but I am now second guessing that. I think the HSU VTF3 has me the most intrigued or maybe dual HSU VTF2s. My room is roughly 17x18x9. It's about 60% open in the rear and 30% on one side.

Would it be worth pairing one of these with the Aperion? Or is it just not worth it?

I'm also wondering just how much a difference this upgrade is going to make. I know the Aperion is kind of small for my situation. My budget really tops out around $1200. I wish I could go higher, but I just can't justify it. Honestly, if I could keep it under $1k that would be even better.

I'm sure this question has been asked a million times before. I appreciate the input. Thanks!

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post #2 of 25 Old 06-23-2019, 06:58 PM
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If I were you, I would get a single;
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html
For the moment, then later add a second one. When the budget recover
Since while your room is roughly 17x18x9. It's about 60% open in the rear and 30% on one side.

Your room dimension are not the problem, it is all the other open space that is.
Speakers, only care about their physical location to your listening area.
Unlike sub/s, that try to fill all open space. Making your room much bigger.

For the Aperion S10 sub. I would ditch-it! I own many aperion speakers, and love them
That said, I would not own a sub from them. And also when it come to subwoofer, the lesser sub will always refrain the superior ones.
Especially if you are using an Auto Calibration System.


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post #3 of 25 Old 06-23-2019, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bschellva View Post
I've got a 12 year old Aperion S10 sub I'm looking to upgrade. I thought I had settled on SVS PB-2000, but I am now second guessing that. I think the HSU VTF3 has me the most intrigued or maybe dual HSU VTF2s. My room is roughly 17x18x9. It's about 60% open in the rear and 30% on one side.



Would it be worth pairing one of these with the Aperion? Or is it just not worth it?



I'm also wondering just how much a difference this upgrade is going to make. I know the Aperion is kind of small for my situation. My budget really tops out around $1200. I wish I could go higher, but I just can't justify it. Honestly, if I could keep it under $1k that would be even better.



I'm sure this question has been asked a million times before. I appreciate the input. Thanks!
That is a huge room nether of the subs you mentioned will properly pressurize your room. IMHO one of the best value subs is PSA.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/

Two V1510 Or one V1811 and later if need be add a 2nd one.

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post #4 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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That is a huge room
Yes, I know. The open floor plan kills me.

I think I would spring for the PSA if I thought the extra money/power over the HSU VTF-3MK5HP would be enough to negate the need for a second sub. The down firing PSA might be a compromise, but I don't know how the down firing is going to impact things.
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post #5 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 07:56 AM
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Yes, I know. The open floor plan kills me.



I think I would spring for the PSA if I thought the extra money/power over the HSU VTF-3MK5HP would be enough to negate the need for a second sub. The down firing PSA might be a compromise, but I don't know how the down firing is going to impact things.
IMHO You should email PSA customer service. They are extremely helpful. Give them some time to reply...Tom is very busy currently with his roll out of the TV36.

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post #6 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 11:27 AM
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Sell the Aperion. Do not attempt to use it with the new sub, as it will only drag the new sub down to it's level. As to which new sub ... a pair of VTF2s or a single VTF3. Do you want more bass or more even bass response? Better yet, get the VTF3 and add another later!
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post #7 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bschellva View Post
Yes, I know. The open floor plan kills me.

I think I would spring for the PSA if I thought the extra money/power over the HSU VTF-3MK5HP would be enough to negate the need for a second sub. The down firing PSA might be a compromise, but I don't know how the down firing is going to impact things.
Definitely dual subs within your budget and room size unless you have basically a single listening position.

I'm going to go against the grain here because any of your options are such a huge step up and you do not sound like a "basshead" so start with one VTF2 as that may be all you need/want.

Then add a second to gain much smoother bass across multiple listening positions and +6db of headroom if you think you really need it.

You just may not despite the common orthodoxy on AVS.

Get HSU's agreement to the small second sub discount if you add another within x number of weeks.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #8 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 01:08 PM
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Where is this going, is it in a living room or going behind a screen wall? If you have room (or can hide it), you could probably build two Full Marty Subs for that price and they would blow away anything you could get in that price point.

2 - Dayton Audio 18-22 Ultimax Drivers $600

1 - Behringer NX3000D Amp $350

4 - Sheets of MDF - $120

Total $1070



Of course Marty's are big and unsightly so if the sub is visible, perhaps the Dayton Audio 18-22 Kit from Parts Express. It's a pretty small sealed unit for an 18", though I am not sure how it would compare to the $1K commercial units.

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post #9 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Where is this going, is it in a living room or going behind a screen wall? If you have room (or can hide it), you could probably build two Full Marty Subs for that price and they would blow away anything you could get in that price point.

2 - Dayton Audio 18-22 Ultimax Drivers $600

1 - Behringer NX3000D Amp $350

4 - Sheets of MDF - $120

Total $1070



Of course Marty's are big and unsightly so if the sub is visible, perhaps the Dayton Audio 18-22 Kit from Parts Express. It's a pretty small sealed unit for an 18", though I am not sure how it would compare to the $1K commercial units.
Definitely wouldn't say I'm a "basshead" - just looking to finally step up to something more meaty. This will be in a family room that we spend almost all our time in - lots of movies, some music. Appearance is definitely a factor, and I have kind of worried about 2 subs even if they look good. To be honest, no one else in my family will care about smoother bass. If I can get it right for my listening position, I'm good to go. I did shoot PSA an email asking for their suggestions. There are so many options and the nice thing is it sounds like any of them will be a big improvement.
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post #10 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 03:04 PM
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Well if it's going in your living room then I would absolutely say no to a Marty sub!!!


It sounds like a single 15-18" sub is what you need to meet the WAF. If you don't mind getting your hands dirty, go with the Dayton Audio 18-22 4CF sealed kit below. If you are really crafty you could veneer it or put a piano finish on it, or if you are like me just duratex it. Duratex is much like the textured finish that PSB uses. You could use a 1000watt plate amp or a Behringer NX1000D if you want to put something in your A/V rack. The end result is something very similar to the PSB S1811.


If you don't want to get your hands dirty, a PSB V1510DF or Hsu VTF-15H MK2 would be a good choice. The 15" or even a 12" Monoprice Monolith THX sub would be another good choice. Rythmik F15HP

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post #11 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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If I could get a good deal on a PSA v1801 should I bite? I'm a little worried it might be too much. It would definitely rule out dual subs for me.

Last edited by bschellva; 06-25-2019 at 12:18 PM.
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post #12 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 07:19 PM
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I've got a Hsu VTF-3 Mk5 in a very open family room/kitchen/dining area (25' x 20' x 9'), but it sits right next to the sofa as there isn't another feasible location in the space. Bass response for music and movies is great in a room that is not really intended as a theater setting. It's a great bang-for-the-buck subwoofer.

I've got twin PSA V1811 subs in the basement theater and they are killer...but it sounds like a single would be a bit much for you. Too bad as Tom has some coming available in the PSA outlet.

The SVS PB-2000 might be another option for you as well as the Rythmik LVX12 and FVX15.

Lots of good choices for you--it's a great time to be in the market for a subwoofer!

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post #13 of 25 Old 06-24-2019, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bschellva View Post
If I could get a good deal on a PSA v1801 should I bite? I'm a little worried it might be too much. It would definitely rule out dual subs for me.
Bite it NOW i know there are a couple of V18 being traded in.

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post #14 of 25 Old 06-25-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bschellva View Post
Definitely wouldn't say I'm a "basshead" - just looking to finally step up to something more meaty. This will be in a family room that we spend almost all our time in - lots of movies, some music. Appearance is definitely a factor, and I have kind of worried about 2 subs even if they look good. To be honest, no one else in my family will care about smoother bass. If I can get it right for my listening position, I'm good to go. I did shoot PSA an email asking for their suggestions. There are so many options and the nice thing is it sounds like any of them will be a big improvement.
Keep in mind that you are considering subs that are MUCH larger than the =13w18h19d= subwoofer you are used to.

Here are the sizes of subs that are smaller than what you are considering and even some of them are larger than what you had before so do pay special attention to relative size and make a cardboard mockup of any sub you consider buying so as to avoid "shock" when it lands on your doorstep.

PORTED SUBWOOFERS $600 AND BELOW, DELIVERED

NOTE:
*THE LARGER PORTED SUBS DELIVER AT LEAST 40% MORE SOUND PRESSURE LEVEL
THAN THE SAME BRAND'S SEALED VERSION WITH SAME SIZE WOOFER AND AMP
*IF LOOKING AT LARGER/MORE EXPENSIVE SUBWOOFERS ADD PSA TO THE LIST OF BRANDS
*IF YOU ARE NOT AN ACTION MOVIE FAN A SUBWOOFER WITH 22-30HZ EXTENSION WOULD BE FINE
*FOR MUSIC A 30HZ SUB IS A FINE CHOICE
*BEFORE BUYING MAKE A CARDBOARD CUTOUT OF THE SIZE OF THE SUB TO MAKE SURE IT IS NOT TOO LARGE FOR YOU
Specs are from the manufacturer unless noted otherwise.
Warranty
for AMP

2 years 350watts =15w16h17d= 40 lbs 10" [30hz] $399 RSL SPEEDWOOFER 10S, (extension from Sound & Vision review)

2 years 250watts =15w19h17d= 42 lbs 10" [25hz] $455 HSU VTF 1 MK3 (extension from Audioholics review)

5 years 300watts =15w19h20d= 46 lbs 10" [18hz] $499 SVS PB1000, (extension from Sound & Vision Review)

5 years 500watts =15w19h20d= 72 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH THX 10"

3 years 300watts =16w22h21d= 69 lbs* 12" [19hz] $569 RHYTHMIK LV12F

2 years 350watts =15w21h22d= 62 lbs 12" [18hz] $607 HSU VTF2 MK5, (extension from Audioholics review)
* = shipping weight

SEALED SUBWOOFERS $650 AND BELOW, DELIVERED


5 years 300watts =13w14h16d= 27 lbs 12" [23hz] $499 SVS SB1000, (extension from Sound & Vision)

5 years 500watts =13w16h21d= 50 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH MTS10 THX

3 years 300watts =14w14h16d= 58 lbs* 12" [18hz] $539 RHYTHMIK L12

5 years 500watts =14w15h17d= 35 lbs 12" [19hz] $649 SVS SB2000 outlet, (extension from Sound & Vision)
* = shipping weight

Geoff A. J., California
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post #15 of 25 Old 06-25-2019, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I've had the tape measure handy and I'll admit a 24 inch high sub seems kind of gigantic. Part of me says just go with 2 10" models and enjoy. I'm just concerned it won't be enough of a difference and I'll be disappointed.
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post #16 of 25 Old 06-25-2019, 01:07 PM
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I've had the tape measure handy and I'll admit a 24 inch high sub seems kind of gigantic. Part of me says just go with 2 10" models and enjoy. I'm just concerned it won't be enough of a difference and I'll be disappointed.
Well, you are less than 2 hours away from Crutchfield in Charlottesville so you could call them to see if you can lug your old Aperion sub over there to compare them to the SVS lineup they carry.

Not only give you a sense of how they sound in the same room but also a direct size comparison.

Might be worth the trip assuming they'll let you do that.

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post #17 of 25 Old 06-25-2019, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I've got it narrowed down to 2 HSU VTF2 MK5s or a single PSA 1801. A 100+ pound sub sounds both scary and awesome.
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post #18 of 25 Old 06-25-2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bschellva View Post
I think I've got it narrowed down to 2 HSU VTF2 MK5s or a single PSA 1801. A 100+ pound sub sounds both scary and awesome.
Keep in mind PSA has a 5 year warranty on the driver AND AMP. HSU is 5 year on driver and only 2 year on the AMP. That was one of the deciding factors before I bought my sub...I was looking at HSU & PSA. I went with PSA and I'm extremely satisfied.

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post #19 of 25 Old 06-25-2019, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Sell the Aperion. Do not attempt to use it with the new sub, as it will only drag the new sub down to it's level. As to which new sub ... a pair of VTF2s or a single VTF3. Do you want more bass or more even bass response? Better yet, get the VTF3 and add another later!
Big +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by bschellva View Post
Yes, I know. The open floor plan kills me.

I think I would spring for the PSA if I thought the extra money/power over the HSU VTF-3MK5HP would be enough to negate the need for a second sub. The down firing PSA might be a compromise, but I don't know how the down firing is going to impact things.
Just for info, the direction of the sub. Is only personal design, from the sub maker for more customer options. Some prefer down firing sub, due to young children's or pets. Sound wise, no difference since bass sound are omnidirectional.


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post #20 of 25 Old 06-25-2019, 08:00 PM
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A 100+ pound sub sounds both scary and awesome.
Imagine what two of them would be like...

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post #21 of 25 Old 06-25-2019, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Imagine what two of them would be like...
I've been measuring and taping boxes together all night trying to figure out what I can swing. I feel like I'll get a better overall improvement with duals, but placement will be a challenge. However, an 18" sub would be cool and I've got a couple placement options if we're only talking a single. I hate making decisions.
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post #22 of 25 Old 06-26-2019, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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So it is done now. Dual VTF-2 MK5s on the way. I just felt more even sound was probably more important to me than the deepest bass possible. My receive will eq the subs separately, so that hopefully works out well. Thanks everyone for all the advice!
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post #23 of 25 Old 06-26-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bschellva View Post
So it is done now. Dual VTF-2 MK5s on the way. I just felt more even sound was probably more important to me than the deepest bass possible. My receive will eq the subs separately, so that hopefully works out well. Thanks everyone for all the advice!
Looking forward to your impressions.

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post #24 of 25 Old 06-26-2019, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bschellva View Post
So it is done now. Dual VTF-2 MK5s on the way. I just felt more even sound was probably more important to me than the deepest bass possible. My receive will eq the subs separately, so that hopefully works out well. Thanks everyone for all the advice!
If you're talking about Audyssey SubEQ, it sets distance and levels independently but EQs them as one. Just an FYI if you have that software.

If you're using some other software then, carry on.
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post #25 of 25 Old 06-26-2019, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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If you're talking about Audyssey SubEQ, it sets distance and levels independently but EQs them as one. Just an FYI if you have that software.

If you're using some other software then, carry on.
Yes that's the one. I didn't realize that. Thanks for the info!
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