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post #1 of 15 Old 07-02-2019, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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JBL SUB18 vs S2S-EX

Anybody have experience with both of these subs? If so, how do they compare (besides the obvious being the SUB18 having greater output)? Does one extend lower than the other?

I'm only asking for those that have experience with both. I'm anticipating responses stating that the JBL subs are overpriced, don't extend low enough, the internet direct subs are much better for much less money and extend much lower etc. All stuff I know and have been told, I'm just wondering how two specific subs compare.
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post #2 of 15 Old 07-05-2019, 08:48 PM
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2269 Driver

Just for giggles, I throw my measly 1 cent's worth .... as I know the "internet" direct subs are all the rage. I'm in process of building a "media" room, but is also somewhat a dedicated theater; the room is fairly large. The two 16 inch, "internet" plate-amplified subs could not begin to charge the room. Enter a new JBL 5628 Cinema Sub (same drivers as Sub-18, but 2) and a used Crown Macro-Tech 3600Vz. Problem solved. With some experimentation, it was not as hard to balance the three subs as I feared. I will tell you this .... no active consumer sub is going to hit you in the chest, like those subs driven by some good, high clean power. After a week's use, frequency response smoothed out and sounds pretty good. Price with a used Macro-tech amp ? 1.5 times the active internet sub. I consider that a bargain, for what it delivers. The two Sub-18's would give you two cabinets obviously, and more possibilities of placement for balance; the 5628 is like a refrigerator. My humble opinion .... If you have the room, go for the 18's, and put a real amplifier behind them. You wont regret it.
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post #3 of 15 Old 07-06-2019, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JPRK View Post
Just for giggles, I throw my measly 1 cent's worth .... as I know the "internet" direct subs are all the rage. I'm in process of building a "media" room, but is also somewhat a dedicated theater; the room is fairly large. The two 16 inch, "internet" plate-amplified subs could not begin to charge the room. Enter a new JBL 5628 Cinema Sub (same drivers as Sub-18, but 2) and a used Crown Macro-Tech 3600Vz. Problem solved. With some experimentation, it was not as hard to balance the three subs as I feared. I will tell you this .... no active consumer sub is going to hit you in the chest, like those subs driven by some good, high clean power. After a week's use, frequency response smoothed out and sounds pretty good. Price with a used Macro-tech amp ? 1.5 times the active internet sub. I consider that a bargain, for what it delivers. The two Sub-18's would give you two cabinets obviously, and more possibilities of placement for balance; the 5628 is like a refrigerator. My humble opinion .... If you have the room, go for the 18's, and put a real amplifier behind them. You wont regret it.
Thank you, that was my feeling as well. If I can fit the 5628's, I'll go for that. I'm assuming the 5628's and SUB 18's would play nicely together. So very few on here have experience with these subs, but from the experience I've personally had with subs, such as the SUB 18 and 5628, they do things in the audible frequency range that no sub that touts response well below 20hz seem to do. Like that chest thump you mentioned. Those subs that play so low also tend to sounded a bit bloated in the audible range in comparison (IMO). My priority is what I can hear over all else, which is why I'm interested in these subs.
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post #4 of 15 Old 07-06-2019, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
Thank you, that was my feeling as well. If I can fit the 5628's, I'll go for that. I'm assuming the 5628's and SUB 18's would play nicely together. So very few on here have experience with these subs, but from the experience I've personally had with subs, such as the SUB 18 and 5628, they do things in the audible frequency range that no sub that touts response well below 20hz seem to do. Like that chest thump you mentioned. Those subs that play so low also tend to sounded a bit bloated in the audible range in comparison (IMO). My priority is what I can hear over all else, which is why I'm interested in these subs.
Yep. I agree with you. The active subs with boxes/drivers tuned to below 20Hz seem to lose the punch in the 30-50hz range; sealed boxes always sound better in this range, but suffer output... thats what I have found. The 5628 (and Sub-18) extends to around 20Hz pretty nicely, and I actually wanted the dynamics that these boxes/woofers offer. The 5628 is definitely the better bang for the buck, for sure. With the correct room and tuning, 2 Sub-18's and the 5628 would give you some great "wallop." (I'm contemplating that .... selling my "internet" 16's for Sub-18's) I have a Datasat processor, which gives pretty good control over crossover and slopes, and para-eq .... that helps dialing it in, and obviously placement and the room situation is super important. I'm not hating on the active boxes, as they are a great solution for a lot of people. I just have a pretty large volume of air to charge, and its all about moving "air" in a controlled manner. Another thing I discovered is these drivers like a lot of power behind them. I experimented with several amps, and it was pretty obvious. I kind of understand why Harmon preach the I-tech 12000, but in the same token in a home it will never be driven to those kind of levels so not necessary; but those transient responses want a good supply of voltage swing, and good AC from the wall. A used Macro-Tech 3600 or 5000 on a dedicated 30 amp circuit would feed them nicely, without spending oodles. (Be aware of the fan noise of these amps)
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post #5 of 15 Old 07-06-2019, 10:23 AM
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Just be aware the 5628 is -3 dB at 24 Hz and -10 dB at 18 Hz. Not the kind of performance you want for movies, but I'm sure it's great for music at nightclub levels.

I think you're really shortchanging yourself by ruling out good ID subs based on one or two bad apples.
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post #6 of 15 Old 07-06-2019, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JPRK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
Thank you, that was my feeling as well. If I can fit the 5628's, I'll go for that. I'm assuming the 5628's and SUB 18's would play nicely together. So very few on here have experience with these subs, but from the experience I've personally had with subs, such as the SUB 18 and 5628, they do things in the audible frequency range that no sub that touts response well below 20hz seem to do. Like that chest thump you mentioned. Those subs that play so low also tend to sounded a bit bloated in the audible range in comparison (IMO). My priority is what I can hear over all else, which is why I'm interested in these subs.
Yep. I agree with you. The active subs with boxes/drivers tuned to below 20Hz seem to lose the punch in the 30-50hz range; sealed boxes always sound better in this range, but suffer output... thats what I have found. The 5628 (and Sub-18) extends to around 20Hz pretty nicely, and I actually wanted the dynamics that these boxes/woofers offer. The 5628 is definitely the better bang for the buck, for sure. With the correct room and tuning, 2 Sub-18's and the 5628 would give you some great "wallop." (I'm contemplating that .... selling my "internet" 16's for Sub-18's) I have a Datasat processor, which gives pretty good control over crossover and slopes, and para-eq .... that helps dialing it in, and obviously placement and the room situation is super important. I'm not hating on the active boxes, as they are a great solution for a lot of people. I just have a pretty large volume of air to charge, and its all about moving "air" in a controlled manner. Another thing I discovered is these drivers like a lot of power behind them. I experimented with several amps, and it was pretty obvious. I kind of understand why Harmon preach the I-tech 12000, but in the same token in a home it will never be driven to those kind of levels so not necessary; but those transient responses want a good supply of voltage swing, and good AC from the wall. A used Macro-Tech 3600 or 5000 on a dedicated 30 amp circuit would feed them nicely, without spending oodles. (Be aware of the fan noise of these amps)
I have M2s with I-tech 5000HDs right now so I have a solution for the fan noise (amp/equipment closet in the adjacent room). For the SUB 18s, a bridged I-tech 5000 HD seems perfect for them. As for the 5628, not sure what amp can deliver the full amount of power they can take besides an I-tech 4x3500HD bridged into 2 channels and no-amping the 5628, but that seems a bit extreme and unnecessary for a residential situation lol.

Whichever route I go will depend on space and cost. Looking forward to trying something a little different than the norm.
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post #7 of 15 Old 07-06-2019, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Just be aware the 5628 is -3 dB at 24 Hz and -10 dB at 18 Hz. Not the kind of performance you want for movies, but I'm sure it's great for music at nightclub levels.

I think you're really shortchanging yourself by ruling out good ID subs based on one or two bad apples.
I didn’t have or experience any ID bad apples, they were actually excellent. (I own Submersive HPs and they’re incredible) and I’ve heard the JTR S2s and those were monsters as well. But they just don’t compare to what I’ve experienced with high end pro gear not tuned to play below 20hz in the audible range, and being in a basement (concrete slab) I lose much of that tactile feel anyway with that sub 20hz content unless the SPL levels are through the roof. I’m sure both the SUB 18 and 5628 can deliver plenty of rumble in a half/quarter space situation. At least enough for what I’m after.
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post #8 of 15 Old 07-06-2019, 10:47 AM
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I didn’t have or experience any ID bad apples, they were actually excellent. (I own Submersive HPs and they’re incredible) and I’ve heard the JTR S2s and those were monsters as well. But they just don’t compare to what I’ve experienced with high end pro gear not tuned to play below 20hz in the audible range, and being in a basement (concrete slab) I lose much of that tactile feel anyway with that sub 20hz content unless the SPL levels are through the roof. I’m sure both the SUB 18 and 5628 can deliver plenty of rumble in a half/quarter space situation. At least enough for what I’m after.
Fair enough. At least glance briefly at the PSA TV36ipal, it's got pro drivers and hits like a truck at higher frequencies despite the low tune.
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post #9 of 15 Old 07-06-2019, 12:42 PM
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Fair enough. At least glance briefly at the PSA TV36ipal, it's got pro drivers and hits like a truck at higher frequencies despite the low tune.

Yep. It's going to pretty much match the JBL over 30hz and crush it under 30hz. And it's currently selling for less if going by MSRP of the JBL. And of course PSA's CS is going to be 100% better than JBL.

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post #10 of 15 Old 07-06-2019, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Fair enough. At least glance briefly at the PSA TV36ipal, it's got pro drivers and hits like a truck at higher frequencies despite the low tune.
I'd have to hear them. If there's a way to audition them when I'm ready before I order, I will consider them pending an audition.
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post #11 of 15 Old 07-06-2019, 05:10 PM
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I'd have to hear them. If there's a way to audition them when I'm ready before I order, I will consider them pending an audition.
You could ask in the PSA thread for an owner near you, or just take advantage of the trial period, you just pay return shipping which should be around $200 for a pair.
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post #12 of 15 Old 07-21-2019, 10:45 AM
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@Blackdevil77 , we have PM'ed regarding this, but I might as well post my experiences so others can read.
I'm using two SUB18's behind the screen and one 5628 in the rear of the room. The 5628 was added to mitigate the length room mode and not because I needed more SPL

What others have said is true - the JBL subwoofers don't say much below 20hz but their performance above that is really good. They are articulate and effortless with no sign of distortion at all.
I'm powering them with two Crown MacroTech 12000i amplifiers. I don't need all that power, but I wanted Crown Class-I topology for the subs as I think they have a fantastic control over the driver.

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
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post #13 of 15 Old 07-21-2019, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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@Blackdevil77 , we have PM'ed regarding this, but I might as well post my experiences so others can read.
I'm using two SUB18's behind the screen and one 5628 in the rear of the room. The 5628 was added to mitigate the length room mode and not because I needed more SPL

What others have said is true - the JBL subwoofers don't say much below 20hz but their performance above that is really good. They are articulate and effortless with no sign of distortion at all.
I'm powering them with two Crown MacroTech 12000i amplifiers. I don't need all that power, but I wanted Crown Class-I topology for the subs as I think they have a fantastic control over the driver.
I feel like I asked you this once before, but besides output, are there any audible differences between the SUB18 and the 5628? Does one "sound better" than the other?
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post #14 of 15 Old 07-21-2019, 01:05 PM
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I feel like I asked you this once before, but besides output, are there any audible differences between the SUB18 and the 5628? Does one "sound better" than the other?
Can't say. They're in two different locations in the room. If I started from scratch, I would probably have all 5628's though.

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Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
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post #15 of 15 Old 07-21-2019, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't say. They're in two different locations in the room. If I started from scratch, I would probably have all 5628's though.

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Noted, thanks!
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