Low for the Low... - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Low for the Low...

About to pull the trigger on a Rhythmik L12...maybe....Im setting up a listening room in a extra bedroom that is 14x14.5x10...2073 cubic feet. I am sitting about 6-7 feet from speakers. I’m doing this on a budget for fun with least expense as possible. Room is on concrete and will have acoustic treatment. This is a little fun project to see how good I can make it sound great with least amount of cash.

For speakers I got the JBL 308p powered studio monitors on sale for $149 each...serious bargain and I laugh because they sound so so good...huge sweet spot, detailed highs, clear mids. I got to listen to a lot for $300-$500 powered studio monitors and there are some real gems out there. Right now I’m running a little Schiit preamp but will be bringing in my Marantz av8801 processor that I am replacing with a Anthem ADM60 to hook everything up with and watch concert Blu-ray’s and stream music on Apple Music and hi-Rez files.

This is mostly a music listening room....2ch and concert blu-rays...maybe a movie but I have a better system for that in my main living room (see signature below). I mostly listen to heavy rock all era's, Reggae..mostly roots with some newer roots with has more extreme lows, lots of acoustic jazz. I am a drummer and would like tight bass with nice punch.

I have been reading about:
SVS SB12,
SVS PB12,
Hsu VTF-2 MK5
RSL Speed Woofer
Rhythmik L12

I am trying to keep this sub purchase under $600 and currently leaning towards the Rhythmik L12 so sealed and servo...seems like it might be a tight little accurate musical sub?

Thoughts on my possible choice of the L12 as a single sub...maybe get another in a few months to run 2?
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Main room McIntosh MC207 Amps....Marantz AV8801 Processor....Revel F36 Concerta2 And Revel Subs....Panasonic BluRay BDT500....Sony 85"4k
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:29 PM
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Rythmik makes good subs. The VTF-2.5 will offer you the ability to run sealed or ported, which can be a nice option in a room size such as yours. One other option is the Monolith THX Ultra 12, which I noticed Amazon has on sale for $639.99, which matches the lowest price it has ever been available for. That's $160 off the normal $800 price and arguably the best and cleanest 12" sub you can buy for that price. The Monolith also offers the ability to play ported or sealed.


https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-Inch...R&sr=8-14&th=1
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Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the Amazon tip but it says usually ships in 1-2 months!....Yikes...months?

Main room McIntosh MC207 Amps....Marantz AV8801 Processor....Revel F36 Concerta2 And Revel Subs....Panasonic BluRay BDT500....Sony 85"4k
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Old 07-08-2019, 12:07 AM
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I have the svs pb12nbd and it is well worth the money. Just hope there is another sale this year for the $499 price tag.
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:20 AM
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Thanks for the Amazon tip but it says usually ships in 1-2 months!....Yikes...months?
You also get hit-or-miss customer service and have to ship the whole sub back if something goes wrong, while the others will work with you to send a replacement driver or amp as needed. I would skip Monoprice for those reasons.

While your space isn't that big, unfortunately, being on concrete, you need a lot more firepower than you would on a suspended floor. I'd consider upping your budget a little and starting with a VTF3 Mk5, or go for the Rythmik and also build a BOSS platform (instructions elsewhere on this forum, google it) under your seating.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:21 AM
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Given your overall goal of minimizing spend, and clean tight bass in a small bedroom, I'd go sealed. The SVS SB12NSD is discontinued but SVS occasionally has them on sale for $400 if you can wait. Otherwise I'd suggest the SVS SB1000 at $499, free shipping free returns, 45 day eval, no tax to most states. It's almost as good as the SB12 NSD but with less RMS Wattage
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:06 AM
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@ mdrums

From your list, I would pick the Hsu VTF-2 MK5 because it offers the most output.

You should also consider Monolith 12". This a normally $800 + tax sub on sale for $640 + tax now.

The Monolith 12" has a very clean and tight sound. It doesn't get much better than this... You can plug up the port and make it sealed.

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Old 07-08-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mdrums View Post
Thanks for the Amazon tip but it says usually ships in 1-2 months!....Yikes...months?
Monoprice shows them as in-stock but of course at full-price.
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to skip the Monoprice subs...More interested in something from Rhythmik, Hsu, SVS. Interested in the servo technology in the Rhythmik as most say it is the most musical of the lower priced subs
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mdrums View Post
I'm going to skip the Monoprice subs...More interested in something from Rhythmik, Hsu, SVS. Interested in the servo technology in the Rhythmik as most say it is the most musical of the lower priced subs

Nothing wrong with wanting a Rythmik. I can say that after I had the Rythmik LV12R in the past and currently owning the Monolith 12, the Monolith certainly isn't lacking for music. $640 for the Monolith 12 is an amazing deal and has only been available for that price a few times ever. Most of these quality subs will sound more similar than dissimilar in performance.



Just to give you a little example of the driver quality in similar subs Monolith THX Ultra 12 and HSU VTF-2 MK5. The components used on the Monolith subs are very impressive, which equals a very impressive sub.


Monolith 12 (Monolith 10 driver pictured next to it on the right)



HSU VTF-2.5



LV12R driver, which I believe is the same driver used in the L12.



If I absolutely had to keep my budget capped at $600, I would go with the VTF-2.5 for $607/shipped. I guess I would steal the $7 from my wife's purse when she wasn't looking. It will give you the flexibility in operating ported or sealed so that when you do pop in a movie, you can get the advantages of a ported sub.
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Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.

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Old 07-09-2019, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow...the Monolith speakers definitely seems like better components than Rythmik and Hsu....interesting

Main room McIntosh MC207 Amps....Marantz AV8801 Processor....Revel F36 Concerta2 And Revel Subs....Panasonic BluRay BDT500....Sony 85"4k
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:03 AM
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Of course, they're giving up a good bit of cone area for those huge surrounds..
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Of course, they're giving up a good bit of cone area for those huge surrounds..

In reality, not really. The surround on the Monolith THX Ultra 12 might be slightly wider than the surround on the HSU VTF-2.5, but it's also taller than the HSU surround or as Monoprice states it a "high profile" surround. I don't have a VTF-2.5 on hand to measure the diameter of the cone from both points inside the surround, but I do have the very similar looking driver on hand to measure, the RBH 1-12/e. Both the I-12/e, with it's thinner and shorter surround, and the Monolith 12, with it's beefier surround, have right at 9.25" distance measured from the inner edge of the surround. Noting that it takes a doubling of cone area to even get 3dB of more output, the difference, if any, between the VTF-2.5 cone area and the Monolith 12 cone area is moot.


One area that isn't moot is what the surround and driver of the Monolith THX Ultra 12 is capable of. The Monolith 12 and even the Monolith 10 are capable of the same 78mm peak to peak Xmech excursion as the SVS SB16-Ultra. That's roughly 3" excursion in both directions, which is pretty darn impressive, particularly for the 10". This allows the Monolith subs to handle just about anything you can throw at them.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:01 PM
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Noting that it takes a doubling of cone area to even get 3dB of more output, the difference, if any, between the VTF-2.5 cone area and the Monolith 12 cone area is moot.
I'd need to see actual measurements to know if that's true. Remember, the surround takes away from the outer edge of the cone. Doubling of cone area does not mean doubling of cone radius
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I'd need to see actual measurements to know if that's true. Remember, the surround takes away from the outer edge of the cone. Doubling of cone area does not mean doubling of cone radius



I know you are trying hard to belittle and run down the Monolith subs, but you aren't doing a very good job.
Remember, we aren't building a sub here, these are already produced. Their performance and measurements are known. Trying to take a shot at cone area was pretty weak sauce.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:11 PM
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ratbuddy, I guess HSU really dropped the ball with their 15" subs, since they have an even wider, huge surround, right? What was Dr. Hsu thinking? He should have used a smaller surround like the VTF-2.5.
http://hsuresearch.com/products/prod...B-1P-R-600.jpg

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
I know you are trying hard to belittle and run down the Monolith subs, but you aren't doing a very good job.
Remember, we aren't building a sub here, these are already produced. Their performance and measurements are known. Trying to take a shot at cone area was pretty weak sauce.
Just pointing out you can't simply glance at a sub and decide the one with the big surround is automatically best. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:14 PM
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Just pointing out you can't simply glance at a sub and decide the one with the big surround is automatically best. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
No feelings hurt, buddy. Nobody glanced at these subs and decided anything, other than you.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:38 PM
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I believe the OP is looking for a musical sub for a small bedroom under $600. Or did I read that wrong?
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Old 07-09-2019, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
I believe the OP is looking for a musical sub for a small bedroom under $600. Or did I read that wrong?
The room being over 2000 ft^3 actually puts it in the medium size for a subwoofer application. The OP did state it was primarily for music with possibly some movie use. I think everyone has recommended or discussed subs at $600 or a little more other than one recommendation for the vtf3.5.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12 (x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000 (x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 AMT bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.

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Old 07-09-2019, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
I believe the OP is looking for a musical sub for a small bedroom under $600. Or did I read that wrong?
Correct! ;-)

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Old 07-09-2019, 07:53 PM
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:26 AM
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I would grab the HSU.
Yeah, and look into a BOSS platform. That concrete floor is going to eat bass like nothing.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:35 AM
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I reviewed the Monolith 15" in Dec 2017. The Monolith 15's output, SQ, and build quality rival, if not better than, the best from ID sub companies...

At $640, the Monolith 12" should be considered.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I reviewed the Monolith 15" in Dec 2017. The Monolith 15's output, SQ, and build quality rival, if not better than, the best from ID sub companies...

At $640, the Monolith 12" should be considered.
I’d do the Amazon Monolith deal but the delivery time is really sketchy with the words, “usually ships” and 1-2 months”

Main room McIntosh MC207 Amps....Marantz AV8801 Processor....Revel F36 Concerta2 And Revel Subs....Panasonic BluRay BDT500....Sony 85"4k
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:07 PM
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I’d do the Amazon Monolith deal but the delivery time is really sketchy with the words, “usually ships” and 1-2 months”
I don't really how Amazon can offer the Monolith 12" at $640 shipped. However, since this is fulfilled by Amazon, Monoprice would have to replenish Amazon's stock at warehouses first. This does not look like a price mistake because Amazon has been selling at $640 for 3 or 4 days now. At worst, you get a cancellation (due to pricing error). Amazon does not charge your card until it's ready to ship so you really have nothing to lose here. As long as you ordered it and the order is not cancelled, Amazon will ship one to you at $640 even if the price were back to $800 when it finally got stock.

The last time Amazon had a price mistake, I got $70 in GCs so...

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Old 07-11-2019, 09:28 AM
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I am a current owner of a VTF2.5. I saw the Mono 12 go on sale last year for a similar price on Ebay for 1 day and would have pulled the trigger but the cabinet was a hair too big for the space I had available for it.
I recently had a chance to see and hear the Mono 12 and it's a truly impressive sub especially at this price point. It just plays with more authority than the VTF2.5. If I had to do it again I would just make the additional room for the Mono 12. Just my $.02.
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I need to make up my dang mind on this purchase. 1st I was going to do a SB 1000 or 2000 then I got to reading/researching and read about Hsu and Rhythmik and thought I will get the Rhythmik L12...then the Amazon deals comes up on the Monoprice Monolith 12 but says 1-2 months delivery.....Def not waiting that long.

Main room McIntosh MC207 Amps....Marantz AV8801 Processor....Revel F36 Concerta2 And Revel Subs....Panasonic BluRay BDT500....Sony 85"4k
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mdrums View Post
I need to make up my dang mind on this purchase. 1st I was going to do a SB 1000 or 2000 then I got to reading/researching and read about Hsu and Rhythmik and thought I will get the Rhythmik L12...then the Amazon deals comes up on the Monoprice Monolith 12 but says 1-2 months delivery.....Def not waiting that long.
The peanut gallery wants you to buy the Monoprice. To hell with the budget and the delivery time
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mdrums View Post
I need to make up my dang mind on this purchase. 1st I was going to do a SB 1000 or 2000 then I got to reading/researching and read about Hsu and Rhythmik and thought I will get the Rhythmik L12...then the Amazon deals comes up on the Monoprice Monolith 12 but says 1-2 months delivery.....Def not waiting that long.
I PM'd you MDRUMS
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