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post #1 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Sub brands with easy in home testing/returns?

I am considering upgrading my dual RW-10 Klipsch to one of the popular subs in the $500 range like SVS, Monolith or HSU.

I have been told thay theu will be an upgrade even though I currently run two subs. I would love to test in home with the ability to return. I am sure return shipping will be
ridiculous but are there brands that allow returns like this? I looked on monoprice and HSU but have read conflicting posts.
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post #2 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
I am considering upgrading my dual RW-10 Klipsch to one of the popular subs in the $500 range like SVS, Monolith or HSU.

I have been told thay theu will be an upgrade even though I currently run two subs. I would love to test in home with the ability to return. I am sure return shipping will be
ridiculous but are there brands that allow returns like this? I looked on monoprice and HSU but have read conflicting posts.
Well depending on where you are Best Buy actually carries SVS in their Magnolia stores. I don't know how many do free returns on subwoofers though.
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post #3 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by liffie420 View Post
Well depending on where you are Best Buy actually carries SVS in their Magnolia stores. I don't know how many do free returns on subwoofers though.


Thanks for that option. I have a local best buy. Looks like they don't carry it, but I could do ship to store and then return if not for me.


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post #4 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 10:01 AM
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Where are you located? Knowing that someone may have experience telling where to go. HSU I believe is in California, Rythmik in Texas, and SVS and PSA in Ohio. There is a company called Nebraska Furniture Mart that has locations in Kansas Iowa, and Texas as well that carries SVS. SVS is a brand you are more likely to find a local retailer.

Edit: Also someone in the area may have subs you are interested in and offer to demo for you.

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post #5 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I'm in southern Oregon. 97527.

Not a lot around here that I am aware of.

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post #6 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 11:32 AM
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SVS direct has a better trial period than best buy on their subs FYI. 45days and paid return shipping.

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post #7 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Locoliberty View Post
SVS direct has a better trial period than best buy on their subs FYI. 45days and paid return shipping.


Paid return shipping! Wow. That's what I'm talking about. I've heard it's the least performer of the $500 subs but not sure if that is true.


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post #8 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 12:17 PM
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I might steer you towards a 2000 series over the 1000 series if you can afford it. My SB2000 performs great, and im likely to buy a second.

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post #9 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I might steer you towards a 2000 series over the 1000 series if you can afford it. My SB2000 performs great, and im likely to buy a second.
So you went non-ported, any reason besides price difference. I have not delved into the discussion between the two yet (ported or non).

Weird that the 1000 is the same price in either model but the non ported 2000 is $1000 less. There does look to be a lot more material involved.
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post #10 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
So you went non-ported, any reason besides price difference. I have not delved into the discussion between the two yet (ported or non).

Weird that the 1000 is the same price in either model but the non ported 2000 is $1000 less. There does look to be a lot more material involved.

Here's a link for you;
VIII-A: Sealed Versus Ported Subwoofers:


Darth
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post #11 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 05:10 PM
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there is an 18 inch ported sub on massdrop for 350 shipped, big ported sub w/1200 watts...I lost my love for small sealed subs as Im in larger room than I was as 20 ish somebody. I need big ported subs now.

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post #12 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Sub brands with easy in home testing/returns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
there is an 18 inch ported sub on massdrop for 350 shipped, big ported sub w/1200 watts...I lost my love for small sealed subs as Im in larger room than I was as 20 ish somebody. I need big ported subs now.


I will also be in a good sized room with valted ceilings.

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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Here's a link for you;
VIII-A: Sealed Versus Ported Subwoofers:


Darth
Thank you I'll give it a read.
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post #13 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 06:25 PM
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for most music you probably wont hear/feel better than klipsch....for movies you will be blown away by a large sub that can dig down to 10hz or so. I need the spl of a sub. if my weakest speaker can do 90 db from 10ft away, I need my sub to do 20db more and at lowest hz of 16hz. my subs might be able to do 110db across freq range...but when it gets under 20hz, prob not. some movies have content down to 8hz....like helicopter scenes in black hawk down or synthetic scenes like eot intro.....most peeps have no clue they missing entire octave of sound/pressure...ofc its expensive to get that performance.

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post #14 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
for most music you probably wont hear/feel better than klipsch....for movies you will be blown away by a large sub that can dig down to 10hz or so. I need the spl of a sub. if my weakest speaker can do 90 db from 10ft away, I need my sub to do 20db more and at lowest hz of 16hz. my subs might be able to do 110db across freq range...but when it gets under 20hz, prob not. some movies have content down to 8hz....like helicopter scenes in black hawk down or synthetic scenes like eot intro.....most peeps have no clue they missing entire octave of sound/pressure...ofc its expensive to get that performance.


You think the Klipsch will be similar in music? Why because music doesn't get as low as movies? These subs are pretty old. Don't think they were that special when they were new. They were a huge upgrade from the HTIB sub I previously had. But now I'm thinking I could use a little more.

From your post sounds like that may be true.


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post #15 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 07:03 PM
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most mid priced klipsch and up are reaaly good with tv/movies and avrs...i have been a klipsch customer since 1990's. still have some old kg series which were budget imo and sound great. bought some ksf series in late 90's and they really rocked for home theater, but for music of times could be harsh. upgraded to focals which have the oomph of klipsch but no harshness. some say new klipsch rp series eliminate harshness w/music....that would put them as bargain focals imo. many say that jbl 590's and revels are designed by science and sound best by studies for money...so wouldnt rule them out. magnepan are pure music in natural/classic form speakers...imo not good for ht.

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post #16 of 40 Old 07-22-2019, 07:06 PM
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woops, wrong thread. subs need to go deep, low, loud. really try a sub that can do all 3. data bass . com has reviews. you want loud 16hz extension imo for tv/movies and for alot of newer music and also orchestra.
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post #17 of 40 Old 07-23-2019, 05:21 AM
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So you went non-ported, any reason besides price difference. I have not delved into the discussion between the two yet (ported or non).
I do mostly music, and metal at that. So it made sense by the old thought process. But a ported would have been fine for me, if shipping wasnt so much I would probly switch to dual PB/PC2000s. But I have a lot of room gain so my SB actually digs pretty deep still.

also this is decent reading on ported vs sealed from SVS
https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/75...aled-vs-ported
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post #18 of 40 Old 07-23-2019, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
I will also be in a good sized room with valted ceilings.

Thank you I'll give it a read.

Hi,

If you are in a good-sized room with vaulted ceilings, I would definitely recommend ported subs. Any of the subwoofer brands you have been considering will be a very significant upgrade, so I'm not personally too concerned that you won't like whatever subs you select. But, I understand that you may want to do a no-risk audition in your own room.

If you do want to, then SVS would be the way to go, and I would buy directly from them. That way, you will not only have the free shipping both ways, but you will also be able to take advantage of the upgrade plan if you want to move-up to even better models sometime after your trial period. Many people find that their bass interests actually increase after they are exposed to lower frequencies in their HT's.

If you can afford it, I would recommend either the PB2000's or PC2000's (that's the cylinder version), rather than the PB1000's. There will be enough difference in a larger room to be worth moving to the larger model subs. (Eventually, you will probably end-up with two of whatever you select now.) Mid-bass frequencies aren't usually too much trouble for most good subs. But, in larger rooms, cabinet size and lower port tunes are very helpful, since the room itself isn't reinforcing the low-frequencies as much.

It's the low-frequencies, and the tactile sensations that accompany the special effects in movies, that you are really missing now and that you may find that you enjoy the most. Based on your description of a good-sized room with vaulted ceilings, I would recommend either of the larger ported 2000 models over the PB1000's.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

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post #19 of 40 Old 07-23-2019, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

If you are in a good-sized room with vaulted ceilings, I would definitely recommend ported subs. Any of the subwoofer brands you have been considering will be a very significant upgrade, so I'm not personally too concerned that you won't like whatever subs you select. But, I understand that you may want to do a no-risk audition in your own room.

If you do want to, then SVS would be the way to go, and I would buy directly from them. That way, you will not only have the free shipping both ways, but you will also be able to take advantage of the upgrade plan if you want to move-up to even better models sometime after your trial period. Many people find that their bass interests actually increase after they are exposed to lower frequencies in their HT's.

If you can afford it, I would recommend either the PB2000's or PC2000's (that's the cylinder version), rather than the PB1000's. There will be enough difference in a larger room to be worth moving to the larger model subs. (Eventually, you will probably end-up with two of whatever you select now.) Mid-bass frequencies aren't usually too much trouble for most good subs. But, in larger rooms, cabinet size and lower port tunes are very helpful, since the room itself isn't reinforcing the low-frequencies as much.

It's the low-frequencies, and the tactile sensations that accompany the special effects in movies, that you are really missing now and that you may find that you enjoy the most. Based on your description of a good-sized room with vaulted ceilings, I would recommend either of the larger ported 2000 models over the PB1000's.

Regards,
Mike
Thank you for the reply that is helpful information. If I was to forgo the requirement of an in home trial. Should I then consider HSU or Monolith over SVS. My budget was at $500 but it seems like most people will say save the extra money to get the next step up. Would you agree?
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post #20 of 40 Old 07-23-2019, 07:46 AM
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Thank you for the reply that is helpful information. If I was to forgo the requirement of an in home trial. Should I then consider HSU or Monolith over SVS. My budget was at $500 but it seems like most people will say save the extra money to get the next step up. Would you agree?
Yes, go as big as you can possibly afford. Any compromise in Sub selection will be regretted very soon. Subs become the foundation of ALL your sound for both Music and Movies. Even more so for Movies. I would suggest you look at spending close to equal amounts $$$ of what your speakers cost on solid performing subs, even more if you have budget Speakers. You have a large room and it is going to take some serious Sub muscle to produce satisfying amounts of Bass SPL.

I learned this lesson late. So I went through 3 levels of upgrades before I achieved the SPL I wanted. The upgrade path is incredibly more costly in the long run. Get the biggest and most powerful sub you can afford now. Then start saving to buy it a brother. Dual matching subs will help with filling the room evenly and effectively.

You are on the right path by asking all these great questions. Lots to learn about Subs. Take your time and don't make a rush purchase. While you do your research, look for other Members who are local to you who may be willing to Demo their subs for you. In the end you will make a much more informed decision and likely have fewer regrets.

Good Luck Sir!
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post #21 of 40 Old 07-23-2019, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, go as big as you can possibly afford. Any compromise in Sub selection will be regretted very soon. Subs become the foundation of ALL your sound for both Music and Movies. Even more so for Movies. I would suggest you look at spending close to equal amounts $$$ of what your speakers cost on solid performing subs, even more if you have budget Speakers. You have a large room and it is going to take some serious Sub muscle to produce satisfying amounts of Bass SPL.



I learned this lesson late. So I went through 3 levels of upgrades before I achieved the SPL I wanted. The upgrade path is incredibly more costly in the long run. Get the biggest and most powerful sub you can afford now. Then start saving to buy it a brother. Dual matching subs will help with filling the room evenly and effectively.



You are on the right path by asking all these great questions. Lots to learn about Subs. Take your time and don't make a rush purchase. While you do your research, look for other Members who are local to you who may be willing to Demo their subs for you. In the end you will make a much more informed decision and likely have fewer regrets.



Good Luck Sir!


Excellent thank you. You brought up the speakers as well and yes I do have some budget bookshelves. Elac Debut 6.2. I am very happy with them for what I paid. But am considering getting some towers. Something that would be a pretty good step forward hopefully.

But for a while it would be one or the other. A sub or the towers. I am leaning towards the speakers because right now I am happy with HT. Music is where I am trying to improve the most. Just trying to learn all I can.
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Excellent thank you. You brought up the speakers as well and yes I do have some budget bookshelves. Elac Debut 6.2. I am very happy with them for what I paid. But am considering getting some towers. Something that would be a pretty good step forward hopefully.

But for a while it would be one or the other. A sub or the towers. I am leaning towards the speakers because right now I am happy with HT. Music is where I am trying to improve the most. Just trying to learn all I can.
The Elac 6.2 are nice bookshelf speakers and have great reviews. However, they begin to roll of in the high 40Hz range and probably being to lose spl in the 50Hz range. That means they struggle to reproduce deep bass content of Movies in ranges below 50hz. Thats a big gap. Lots of Members here run bookshelf speaker with Subs. Its a great combination and can be a very nice solution in all regards.

My humble recommendation is to keep the Elac 6.2's and add in a nice sub to cover the lower FR that you are missing with bookshelves. There are lots of Members who never get Towers and love the combination of a Sub and Bookshelves. That is the way I would go, as Powered Subs will always outperform Towers in reproducing solid deep bass. Lots to think about.
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The Elac 6.2 are nice bookshelf speakers and have great reviews. However, they begin to roll of in the high 40Hz range and probably being to lose spl in the 50Hz range. That means they struggle to reproduce deep bass content of Movies in ranges below 50hz. Thats a big gap. Lots of Members here run bookshelf speaker with Subs. Its a great combination and can be a very nice solution in all regards.

My humble recommendation is to keep the Elac 6.2's and add in a nice sub to cover the lower FR that you are missing with bookshelves. There are lots of Members who never get Towers and love the combination of a Sub and Bookshelves. That is the way I would go, as Powered Subs will always outperform Towers in reproducing solid deep bass. Lots to think about.

Very much agree

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Excellent thank you. You brought up the speakers as well and yes I do have some budget bookshelves. Elac Debut 6.2. I am very happy with them for what I paid. But am considering getting some towers. Something that would be a pretty good step forward hopefully.

But for a while it would be one or the other. A sub or the towers. I am leaning towards the speakers because right now I am happy with HT. Music is where I am trying to improve the most. Just trying to learn all I can.
While I am bias toward towers speakers, since they can play lower without struggling compare to some bookshelf's. For the lower frequencies in heavy bass moment during some movies, even when the tower crossover is set at 80Hz.
In your situation, I do agree 100% with Adam. Keep the Bookshelf's and get the best sub you can afford, a much better return than Towers over a quality sub.


Darth
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Sub brands with easy in home testing/returns?

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Very much agree



While I am bias toward towers speakers, since they can play lower without struggling compare to some bookshelf's. For the lower frequencies in heavy bass moment during some movies, even when the tower crossover is set at 80Hz.
In your situation, I do agree 100% with Adam. Keep the Bookshelf's and get the best sub you can afford, a much better return than Towers over a quality sub.


Darth


Thanks for the feedback. That's where I'm leaning currently. Seen some nice deals on some used models. Might do that to get more for my dollar.


If I said I was mostly focused on music would you feel the same?

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post #25 of 40 Old 07-24-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
Thanks for the feedback. That's where I'm leaning currently. Seen some nice deals on some used models. Might do that to get more for my dollar.


If I said I was mostly focused on music would you feel the same?
While some swear that a seal sub is better for music, and myself bias toward ported ones.
I might not be the right person to ask.

That said, I have read many time. If a port sub is well integrated with the other speakers, it will sound very good. If not as good.
I would more take advice, from the link I have attach in a previous post.


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post #26 of 40 Old 07-24-2019, 07:30 PM
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Paid return shipping! Wow. That's what I'm talking about. I've heard it's the least performer of the $500 subs but not sure if that is true.


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That is one of the side effects of offering free return shipping on trials. Those shipping costs are being subsidized in the original purchase price.

Electronics: Denon X4400, Vizio M65
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post #27 of 40 Old 07-24-2019, 07:37 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. That's where I'm leaning currently. Seen some nice deals on some used models. Might do that to get more for my dollar.


If I said I was mostly focused on music would you feel the same?
Subwoofer placement is critical to maximizing performance of the low frequency. With your main speakers, you have very little placement flexibility to maintain proper imaging and your bass will often suffer. Having a dedicated subwoofer even for music only setups has lots of advantages. While many will recommend sealed subwoofers for music focused setups, a quality ported sub can be very musical as well.

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post #28 of 40 Old 07-24-2019, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Subwoofer placement is critical to maximizing performance of the low frequency. With your main speakers, you have very little placement flexibility to maintain proper imaging and your bass will often suffer. Having a dedicated subwoofer even for music only setups has lots of advantages. While many will recommend sealed subwoofers for music focused setups, a quality ported sub can be very musical as well.

Right now the two subs that I have are also my speaker stands. So they are where they are. Not much room to move them anyways.



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post #29 of 40 Old 07-24-2019, 07:55 PM
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Right now the two subs that I have are also my speaker stands. So they are where they are. Not much room to move them anyways.



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That is the advantage of having multiples. With a single sub, placement is more important. The more subs you add, the more you can get away with less than ideal placement. I went from a dual sub setup to a single sub and with proper placement, get excellent results.

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post #30 of 40 Old 07-24-2019, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
for most music you probably wont hear/feel better than klipsch....for movies you will be blown away by a large sub that can dig down to 10hz or so. I need the spl of a sub. if my weakest speaker can do 90 db from 10ft away, I need my sub to do 20db more and at lowest hz of 16hz. my subs might be able to do 110db across freq range...but when it gets under 20hz, prob not. some movies have content down to 8hz....like helicopter scenes in black hawk down or synthetic scenes like eot intro.....most peeps have no clue they missing entire octave of sound/pressure...ofc its expensive to get that performance.
single digit movies are less than 1/2 % probably of all movies made, and then it may only happen for a few seconds or a tad more.
subs that can go there and not just wiggle like a limp pancake, will cost you many thousands of dollars.
most movies start in the low to mid 20hz range, some higher.
most people are happy to get to the mid and upper teens with any weight.
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