Originally Posted by darrellh44
I'd like to share my brief TR experiences and why I agree with SBuger that BOSS platforms do not provide good mid-bass chest slam, or reproduce higher frequency TR in general.
I went to Tim's house several months ago while traveling thru central Louisiana and was able to try out his main BOSS riser and mini-riser BOSS platforms with several demo clips. On some material his BOSS's were incredible and seemed very natural - even my wife was very impressed, and she's not HT savvy or cares very much at all (she even tries to get away with calling my 'man cave' her 'she-shed' instead). On other clips I guess I experienced the gimmicky TR - it was just too easy to tell the vibrations were coming from somewhere under my seat instead of occurring 'organically'. Looking back, it was probably the clips with higher frequency content that seemed gimmicky. Also Tim's sofas had fairly soft cloth cushions that I assume would filter higher frequency vibrations more so than my stiffer leather cushions.
The best chest slam I've experienced was at a north Dallas GTG at thxman's house a couple of years ago. He has a fantastic HT in a smallish closed room (maybe 1500 cuft) on the second floor. Great conditions for ULF TR, but I'm not sure how much this helps chest slam. His subs were two Seaton F18 Master/Slave pairs (total of 4 x 18" sealed) with one pair at the front of the room, and the 2nd pair immediately behind his second row recliners. The only transducers I was aware of were his 3 front row DBOX seats - his DBOX was pretty amazing, but it's a different animal than the TR we're talking about here.
The demo clip I remember most from the GTG was the opening scene of 'Unbroken'. When the flak started exploding around the WWII bomber we were placed in, it was the most intense chest slam I had ever experienced. It literally felt like someone took a heavy flat seat cushion and swung it as hard as he could flush against my back. My entire upper body felt like it moved an inch or two. The first time thru this clip I was sitting in a 2nd row recliner a foot or two from one of the rear subs. I assumed the TR from the subs was pushing the seatback which in turn was pushing me. However the second time thru the same clip, I moved to sitting on the rear seat's riser off to one side (a couple of feet further away from the subs), with only my butt and feet touching anything. I still felt the same (almost) intense slam across my back. The only way my upper body could have felt the slam this time was directly from the subs' shockwave.
I guess what I'm saying is good chest slam has to start with a percussive sound intensity wave that penetrates into your body and then generates natural resonances from within using your internal body cavities, as opposed to vibrations that are generated externally and then mechanically transferred to your body. I have no scientific proof of this, but I have read similar descriptions elsewhere, and this also seems to explain the differences I have felt myself.
Thanks for the great post Darrell!! Awesome that you got to check out Tim’s BOSS’s and theater, as well as the thxman’s setup!! Sounds like both gave some awesome and very memorable experiences
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the chest punch and TR!! I can’t say for sure because I’ve only experienced my BOSS (when I had my full size riser on iso’s in BOSS form), but I would think that on “most” seating that is leather and stiffer like my HT seats and most other HT seating (like yours probably), the vibrations from the higher frequency mid bass chest punch range (~45 to 80hz) would just be too overbearing and with no SPL (which BOSS in not supposed to have), would struggle to deliver the kind of actual chest punch that high SPL and or Particle Velocity (from a VNF sub parked right behind you) can deliver, like you experienced at thxman’s theater. (Sorry, that felt like a major run on sentence but had a lot I wanted to say in it LOL) Maybe it can, but just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m sure the vibrations can somewhat simulate and or fool you into thinking its hard-hitting mid bass chest slam (if it doesn’t feel too gimmicky). Tim seems to love it on his softer style seats, so I’m not saying it’s not happening or possible. It gives him what he wants in that midbass area and that’s what’s important. I think we may be talking about a different type of midbass feel here. But then again, maybe not LOL
But yeah for me, that mid bass chest slam that you can really feel “HAS” to come from a sub or MBM right behind me, not BOSS. My SubRiser, not BOSS because its sealed setting on the ground with no isos, can help and has SPL to go with it. But is just too much vibration in those higher mid bass frequencies in my seats. Too much vibration when it was in BOSS form with isolators too. So VNF it is for me, plus the other subs do help too, especially at higher SPL’s.
I get pretty darn good chest slam now, but still not as hardcore as when I ran the MBM stacked on top of my 18” right behind my non reclining MLP seat in my last setup. You may remember me talking about it at some point that is was so lethal feeling that it would make my chest ache after a demo session (even short demo sessions). Its good now is probably about right, but I do miss that EXTREME violence in the chest cavity sometimes that I had before.
Chest slam can be such a wonderful and powerful thing if you can get it, but seems to be really hard to achieve for a lot of folks. It was talked about quite a lot in Dom’s Nearfield MBM thread a while back. I was a huge participant in that awesome thread back then LOL Some could get loads of it from the MBMs positioned behind them while others still didn’t feel much at all. I would think that ULF TR would be the hardest to get, but it seems that “that” kind of chest slam can be hard to get too.
So, there’s that on actual chest slam coming from those midbass frequencies in the 45-80hz area. But since we are on the subject of chest slam or “feel in the chest” there is something I’d like to through out there as well that I find can “almost feel” like chest slam. I know its not actual chest slam, but it kind of feels like it in a super cool kind of way. What I’m talking about here is the feel from the BK LFE’s in their wheelhouse of power, which is 12-30hz or so. I don’t know if its my seating style and or reclined position (or both maybe), but on a lot of material that has super strong content in this area (and presented a certain way), I swear I feel it in the chest (and gut area) almost like actual chest slam in a way. And this is coming from the extreme power of the BK LFE’s all working together. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this feel. It makes me almost feel panicky and spikes the adrenalin with its intensity. It’s a sharp and powerful feeling in the chest area (as well as gut and even the groin area) that is hard to explain, combined with a seat dropping out from under you kind of feel. Somewhat like going over the end of the “Log Ride at a fun park” when you drop down (or even over the top of a roller coaster and start back down). LOL that might not sound enjoyable, but for me, it makes all the difference in the world for that super intense and awesome TR experience that I love so much. The BOSS (when I ran it with no isos) could bring this feel pretty good at times as well as the way I have it now as a SubRiser not on isos. So can the MAs. But the BK LFE’s just seem to bring this feel like CRAZY and is one of the things I love so much about them. Super cool stuff when combined with actual chest slam (and LF) coming from the VNFs.
Anyway, I’m getting carried away here again with descriptions, but thought some may find that interesting about the BK LFEs and may even experience that same sort of feeling from them.
or anyone else, do you ever experience that same type of feel that I tried to explain from your BK LFEs?
Again, thanks for the post man, great stuff!!!