15" - HSU v Monolith v Rythmic v ? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 08-12-2019, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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15" - HSU v Monolith v Rythmic v ?

4500 cu ft dedicated HT in concrete bunker. 80% movies/20% music. Looking at 3 models to buy 2 subs. (2) HSU VTF-15H MK2 delivered $2044; (2) Monoprice Monolith 15" delivered $2500; (2) Rythmic Audio FV15HP delivered $2658.

I've read many reviews on the HSU & Monolith, with the HSU appearing to be comparable to the Monolith, making it the better value as well as sufficient for my needs. I was not familiar with Rythmic until hearing about it on AVS. The price difference between the Monolith & Rythmic is nominal. If Monoprice was running one of the 20% off coupons, taking it to $2080 it would be a no-brainer.

So, is the Monolith worth the extra $456 over the HSU; is the Rythmic worth $614 over the HSU and $158 over the Monolith?

Lastly, any other options in this category? Thanks.
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post #2 of 26 Old 08-12-2019, 10:16 AM
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You probably read my review for the Monolith 15"...

Now, I have never heard the Hsu VTF-15H MK2 or Rythmik FV15HP. However, I have heard the original HSU VTF-15H and Rythmik FV18. Output per dollar wise, the HSU VTF-15H MK2 is ahead.

What the Monolith 15" can do is providing great sound with the least amount of chuffing even when driven to its limits... It is tuned as low as the Rythmik FV15HP but provides more output overall.

For $3000 shipped, you should also consider the JTR Captivator 118HTs. Regularly $1799 + shipping (~$150 to SoCal) each, the saving is quite substantial. @ $1500 each shipped, the output per dollar is through the roof. You also get substantially more tactile response than the aforementioned candidates.

Your choices are the best sounding sub under $1,300 and arguably the best sounding sub under $2,000. Pick your poison.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-13-2019 at 11:13 AM.
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post #3 of 26 Old 08-12-2019, 10:52 AM
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HSU all day long. Or, if you want to go up a bit, 2 PSA V1510's.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/subwoofers
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post #4 of 26 Old 08-12-2019, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
For $3000 shipped, you should also consider the JTR Captivator 118HTs. Regularly $1799 + shipping (~$150 to SoCal) each, the saving is quite substantial. @ $1500 each shipped, the output per dollar is through the roof. You also get substantially more tactile response than the aforementioned candidates
I looked at their website, shows the full MSRP of $1799. How do you get $1500 shipped? The other 3 seem ready for display, the JTR looks like it should be hiding behind a wall or screen. Thanks.
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post #5 of 26 Old 08-12-2019, 05:15 PM
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I would wait until closer to Labor Day for some sales. The Monolith subs have gone on sale for 20% off a few times, which has also stacked with the dual discount, which is an insanely good deal. Both the FV15HP and Monolith THX Ultra 15 will be a step up over the VTF-15H MK2, particularly for home theater. The HSU can keep up with the other two higher in range, but when you go below 20Hz that's where the HSU can't keep up in extension or output.For the money, currently on sale, the VTF-15H.2 is a good value at $2044, however.
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post #6 of 26 Old 08-12-2019, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIC2 View Post
I looked at their website, shows the full MSRP of $1799. How do you get $1500 shipped? The other 3 seem ready for display, the JTR looks like it should be hiding behind a wall or screen. Thanks.
JTR doesn't update its website frequently. The promos, new products, are posted on its FB page. If memebers see them, they will post on AVS...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/122-g...l#post58308932

Look is highly subjective:



This is the 2015 Cap 1400. The cabinet looks almost identical with the Cap 118HT.



The Cap 118HT has almost 4dB more output than the Monolith 15". That is 62% more sub.

The Hsu VTF-15H MK2 is a top $1,000 sub. The Monoprice Monolith 15" is a top $1,300 sub. The JTR Cap 118HT is a top $2000 sub.

Heck, the $1500 shipped JTR Cap 118HT may no longer be available. You should contact 1-847-714-6878 and [email protected]

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

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post #7 of 26 Old 08-12-2019, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIC2 View Post
So, is the Monolith worth the extra $456 over the HSU; is the Rythmic worth $614 over the HSU and $158 over the Monolith?

Lastly, any other options in this category? Thanks.
Table over at data-bass has the Rythmik FV15HP at +3dB over the Hsu .. the FVX15 would be more comparable in output (@ ~$2100/pr).
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post #8 of 26 Old 08-12-2019, 10:51 PM
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Data-bass tested the MK1 version of the HSU. The MK2 averages around 3db more from 16-80hz.
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post #9 of 26 Old 08-12-2019, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotthal View Post
Table over at data-bass has the Rythmik FV15HP at +3dB over the Hsu .. the FVX15 would be more comparable in output (@ ~$2100/pr).
Actually, no.

DB tested the FV15HP with the LIMITER OFF which provided a 2dB advantage. Rythmik wants customers to have the LIMITER ON AT ALL TIMES.

With the limiter on, FV15HP is actually -1dB from the Hsu VTF-15H MK2.

The FVX15 is -3dB from the FV15HP, making it -4dB from the Hsu VTF-15H MK2. Therefore, not comparable in output.
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post #10 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Got me thinking about the JTR 118HT. Their website says 1200 watt amp. Data-Bass says 700 watts. The room is 21 wide, 23 deep & 10 high (4500 cu ft). Surrounded by concrete in every direction under suspended garage (covered with drywall & R-13 batts). 4 seats in front row; 5 seats in back row. 7.2.4 system is Triad Silver, which should crossover at 80 minimum, probably even 100. Probably put one sub in front right corner & the other in back left corner.

So, putting aside the numbers, what would the JTR mean to my real world movie experience? Is it an awesome experience that will be worth going from $2000 to $3000? Would the JTR mean I wouldn't need seat shakers, like say the BOSS system? For another 50% cost am I getting at least 50% more dynamic experience? Thanks for the great responses.
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post #11 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIC2 View Post
Got me thinking about the JTR 118HT. Their website says 1200 watt amp. Data-Bass says 700 watts. The room is 21 wide, 23 deep & 10 high (4500 cu ft). Surrounded by concrete in every direction under suspended garage (covered with drywall & R-13 batts). 4 seats in front row; 5 seats in back row. 7.2.4 system is Triad Silver, which should crossover at 80 minimum, probably even 100. Probably put one sub in front right corner & the other in back left corner.

So, putting aside the numbers, what would the JTR mean to my real world movie experience? Is it an awesome experience that will be worth going from $2000 to $3000? Would the JTR mean I wouldn't need seat shakers, like say the BOSS system? For another 50% cost am I getting at least 50% more dynamic experience? Thanks for the great responses.
Yes. The $1,500 shipped JTR Cap 118HT is the 2019 version (1200W, tuned to 18Hz). Data-bass tested the 2017 version which still had the 700W amp. This is why the former's output is 2dB higher across.

I compared the Monolith 15" head to head with my JTR Cap 1400 in my HT. I also compared a Rythmik sub with the Cap 118HT in another member's family room which is probably 7500 cu ft. In either cases, the JTR subs are much more impactful and tactile. You are also getting much more output.

I recommended 2 Cap 118HTs for $3,000 because you were already considering 2 Rythmik FV15HPs for $2,658.

The BOSS system will take the tactile response to another level. However, it can't provide good SOUNDING bass.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-13-2019 at 08:45 AM.
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post #12 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 08:24 AM
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From the list of options, the Rythmik FV15HP's with the revised 4" ports would be my choice.


Looks is subjective for sure, but only Ray Charles would call the 118HT a good looking sub. However at 1500.00 delivered, its a steal. If you can swing 3k then a pair of 118's would be a solid choice.
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post #13 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 08:29 AM
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Looks is subjective for sure, but only Ray Charles would call the 118HT a good looking sub.
LOL. Totally agree. JTR subs are 100% function over form. Great for a dedicated HT but not the best look in a living room.
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post #14 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 10:28 AM
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I found a closer pic of the JTR Cap 118HT taken at a GTG...



Below is the PSA V1801 next to the JTR Cap 1400 I had, taken at the same GTG.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #15 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
JTR subs are 100% function over form.
And boy do they function!

Quote:
Great for a dedicated HT but not the best look in a living room.
Said the man with 2 of my cat's favorite subs...
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-13-2019 at 11:26 AM.
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post #16 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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It's a done deal. Two JTR Captivator 118HTs are on the way. Thanks for the help everybody.
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post #17 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BIC2 View Post
It's a done deal. Two JTR Captivator 118HTs are on the way. Thanks for the help everybody.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #18 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BIC2 View Post
It's a done deal. Two JTR Captivator 118HTs are on the way. Thanks for the help everybody.


At that price point those subs are an outstanding performer. My favorite JTR sub. You will be really happy to say the least. Congrats!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #19 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 09:17 PM
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How are those JTR subs for mid bass as well? I know they hit hard and dig deep, but what about the rest? just curious
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post #20 of 26 Old 08-13-2019, 11:01 PM
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How are those JTR subs for mid bass as well? I know they hit hard and dig deep, but what about the rest? just curious
The Cap 118HT is capable of 121dB @ 50Hz, and 124dB above 63Hz (2m, RMS). What do you think?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #21 of 26 Old 08-14-2019, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Triad recommends the Silver series that I have crossover at 100Hz instead of the standard 80Hz. With the Cap 118HT, would it even be better to crossover at 110 or 120, or is 100 some kind of sweet spot? Thanks.
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post #22 of 26 Old 08-14-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BIC2 View Post
Triad recommends the Silver series that I have crossover at 100Hz instead of the standard 80Hz. With the Cap 118HT, would it even be better to crossover at 110 or 120, or is 100 some kind of sweet spot? Thanks.
What speakers do you have again?

The Cap 118HT is 19~190Hz +/- 3Hz. You can set the crossover as high as you can until your start localizing bass.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #23 of 26 Old 08-14-2019, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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What speakers do you have again?

The Cap 118HT is 19~190Hz +/- 3Hz. You can set the crossover as high as you can until your start localizing bass.
Triad Silver

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post #24 of 26 Old 08-14-2019, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BIC2 View Post
Triad Silver

LCR: InWall Silver/6 LCR

Sides: InWall Silver/4 Surround (bi-pole)

Rears: InWall Silver/4 Surround (bi-pole)

Atmos: InCeiling Silver/6 Sat
Yeah, set your crossovers at 100Hz to be on the safe side. I would also try 110 or 120Hz.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

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post #25 of 26 Old 08-14-2019, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
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Actually, no.

DB tested the FV15HP with the LIMITER OFF which provided a 2dB advantage. Rythmik wants customers to have the LIMITER ON AT ALL TIMES.

With the limiter on, FV15HP is actually -1dB from the Hsu VTF-15H MK2.

The FVX15 is -3dB from the FV15HP, making it -4dB from the Hsu VTF-15H MK2. Therefore, not comparable in output.

A little clarification is need here. It's not that simple.

The difference I measured in maximum output burst, averaged over the 10-125Hz range,with the limiter on vs off, is closer to 1dB. It's less than 1.2dB. The rest of the Rythmik's I've measured were right in this range with the limiter on vs off as well. It varies greatly with frequency too. Some frequencies offer almost no extra output with the limiter off and others up to about 2dB but the average over the whole bass range is closer to 1dB.

Also remember that some frequencies are distortion limited during burst testing which means there will be no change in the CEA results at those frequency bands with the limiter on or off because of the distortion limitation occurring prior to maximum output. For the FV15HP the distortion limited frequencies were at 25Hz and below so these would not be affecting by having the limiter on. At 31.5Hz and above a closer estimate would be subtracting 1dB not 2.

The FV15HP was tested with the limiter off initially only because when the sub was placed into the power "on" position, it disabled the limiter. This was noted in the setup guide but not on the amplifier. I never test subs set to "auto". Later on I discovered that the limiter was tied to the power switch setting. The newer Rythmik's now have a dedicated switch for the limiter.
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post #26 of 26 Old 08-14-2019, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
A little clarification is need here. It's not that simple.

The difference I measured in maximum output burst, averaged over the 10-125Hz range,with the limiter on vs off, is closer to 1dB. It's less than 1.2dB. The rest of the Rythmik's I've measured were right in this range with the limiter on vs off as well. It varies greatly with frequency too. Some frequencies offer almost no extra output with the limiter off and others up to about 2dB but the average over the whole bass range is closer to 1dB.

Also remember that some frequencies are distortion limited during burst testing which means there will be no change in the CEA results at those frequency bands with the limiter on or off because of the distortion limitation occurring prior to maximum output. For the FV15HP the distortion limited frequencies were at 25Hz and below so these would not be affecting by having the limiter on. At 31.5Hz and above a closer estimate would be subtracting 1dB not 2.

The FV15HP was tested with the limiter off initially only because when the sub was placed into the power "on" position, it disabled the limiter. This was noted in the setup guide but not on the amplifier. I never test subs set to "auto". Later on I discovered that the limiter was tied to the power switch setting. The newer Rythmik's now have a dedicated switch for the limiter.
Ah, gotcha. Thank you for the detailed explanation. This is extremely helpful for a dataset nut like me.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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