Subwoofer recommendation for music and questions - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 8 Old 08-17-2019, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Subwoofer recommendation for music and questions

Hello, I've posted here before asking for general recommendations on a sub woofer, so for those threads I'll link to previous discussions here, but fast forwarding a few years with some different goals in mind.



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...mall-room.html


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...ggestions.html


Room size: Still the same - 13 x 11 x 7.5 ft, but I want to take the question a bit further.
Use case: 90% music (EDM - dubstep/future/house/trap/techno/etc - think soundcloud) and 10% gaming. Also the consensus I've gathered is that I will want to look at a sealed sub woofer versus ported for a tighter bass in this use case versus home theater.
Budget: Up towards $1k this time around.

Fast forward a few years, some of these previously mentioned models are no longer in production, I absolutely loved my pair of AudioEngine A5+'s (I'm upgrading to wireless now), so that's for sure going to be the same.

I've settled on a Polk Audio PSW Series PSW505 for temporary (this went straight to my friend once I decided it's upgrade time), which was OK if not somewhat loose/muddy in my experience, though sub-optimal positioning possibly.
I'm now looking at the SVS SB-2000 possibly, however the Elac sub3010/3030 was on my radar but the response frequencies from the SVS are a bit lower it seems and the warranty is quite a bit longer as well. Both have excellent reviews however.

My positioning currently is underneath my desk to the right, however this may change based on recommendations and/or the sub woofer crawling method. I've attached my room layout below (I'm a minimalist, which is my goal going forward as well).

I have a few questions however, and want to take the discussion further here:


1) What would be the differentiating factors when it comes to a smaller room size? I can either pick up the SVS-SB2000 or the SB3000, which is going from a difference of 500 to 800 watts RMS, however at equally as much difference for price which I have no problem with either way. My question - is there a diminishing return here on value when it comes to a smaller room size or how much of a factor does this play in such that I'm not loosing value?


2) This leads me into my next question. Would a higher powered sub such as the SB3000 also create an imbalance possibly by overpowering the AudioEngine's loosing value in this regard? I can tune the sub woofer, however as mentioned before I don't want to cap the capabilities by potentially under performing speakers that may end up overpowered - no matter the quality.


3) As far as the room size goes, I am looking to future proof this if possible as well to translate into a tiny house as well down the road (my goal is 8.6 x 25-28 x 13 ft; on wheels), however I'm not entirely sure how this may pan out in practice exactly, as there's multiple factors that plays into how the spacing affects the audio perception here, and may consider upgrading regardless. The underlying theme here however is that I plan to generally keep my living space in smaller dimensions, but that may or may not potentially be a key factor as I want to optimize the experience here.


4) Are there any new brands out there that have arisen for general recommendations or how have trends changed in this time frame? I've previously looked at a wide variety of brands thus far, from Polk/BIC to Elac/SVS/HSU/Klipsch/KEF to infinity, pioneer, paradigm, legacy, emotiva, even cerwin vega and some others, however this will be going into a powered computer system so not home theater in this case which will more than likely not fit the bill here and would be loosing value in that sense .


I will also be doing further research and the like into DSP controls, response curves, crossover, what IO should be used here, etc since this is all important as well, but I currently lack knowledge on these topics as I've not taken a deep dive yet.


Thanks!
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Last edited by Snake X; 08-17-2019 at 09:40 AM. Reason: Update title
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post #2 of 8 Old 08-17-2019, 11:47 AM
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Rythmik L12. Start with one. If you can't seem to get the frequency response even in the room, add a second ( a problem with the room, not the sub). Rythmik has been considered the "music sub" due to it's servo technology. Using a sealed sub (recommended in that small space) tightens things up even more.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #3 of 8 Old 08-18-2019, 10:41 AM
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2nd vote for a Rythmik sub. It’s an amazing sub with great service. The servo drive works awesome for music.

I have subs from Rythmik, PSA and HSU and the Rythmik is definitely the best for music listening. It’s also the only sealed one in group so maybe that’s part of it.

If your goal is music and your budget is $1k I would look at this one.

Skip SVS and all the other subs you mentioned. Also don’t get caught up in curves and responses.

Just buy a Rythmik... you will be blow away and super happy!!!

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html

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post #4 of 8 Old 08-18-2019, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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After doing some further research looking into servo subwoofer's and finding an article on this as well for how traditional companies such as I listed previously (and found a video on youtube from PS Audio explaining this, which he also talks about rythmik's servo system).


I re-checked the claims of SVS and Elac which both mention double thick or well constructed MDF cabinetry to fix the aforementioned issues that were brought up that servo's are designed to handle, and indeed that is their selling point so this does check out in the end.


After looking at Rythmik's offerings with their various amplifiers (this will be my next question as well, and tying into a previously mentioned point which I will get to), this still leaves on the table the discussion regarding wattage increases.
I do also want to mention that on the products page (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html), it mentions the following for the F12 series (which I have no issue picking up)



Quote:
Recommended for speakers with 5” woofers or larger.
So my question here is again on diminishing returns due to my smaller sized room as far as the price difference between the F12 (which seems more so suited here versus the L12 for upgrading the model/value, correct me if I'm wrong though) and the F15HP (I can also pick this up, however would be a stretch, so ultimately may not be worth it for me financially personally), and would this be worth the increased wattage/cone size in general. I don't know if this is related but on the product page for the F12 (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html) mentions the following


Quote:
Many of our customers marvel that we are able to produce such exceptional sub woofers at such a low price. One Direct Servo technology makes it possible, allowing us to get the most out of a 12" driver without the need for kilowatts of power. Don't be fooled into thinking that other more expensive subwoofers with much more powerful amplifiers will offer more output. The output of a sub woofer is determined by how much air the driver can displace, not the power rating of the amplifier. We could supply a more powerful amplifier, but there would be no increase in output, only extra cost.
And again in practice I'm not entirely sure how this relates to the F12 versus the F15HP because there is indeed a wattage increase in the amplifiers here, let alone room size, if this is important or a key factor here.
Just out of curiosity, if not this then what aspect of a sub woofer would the room size play a limitation towards?



Lastly, since I have no XLR inputs/outputs in my system and certainly don't need the outputs on the PEQ amplifier, I'm assuming the best bet here would the the PEQ3 variant for input (LFE for potential future use since the A5+'s do not have this output) and would work with the output from the A5's (minus all the tuning of controls and such)?
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post #5 of 8 Old 08-18-2019, 01:42 PM
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This applies to a lot of areas of life.... it's better to have too much than not enough

Said differently buy the most watts/ largest sub you can afford as it's easier to turn it down vs turn it up.

I have a F12G in my living room which is ~18' by 20' with 10' high ceilings and open to the rest of the house on 2 sides. The F12G is plenty for my listening taste (not super loud). I've never noticed distortion and I have it paired with a set of small ~4" def tech bookshelf speakers - sounds amazing for the casual listening it's intended for. The sub is placed near the front corner of the room next to a couch. No sub crawl as this was the ONLY place it could go if I wanted to have it and not have my wife blow a fuse.

You small(er) room should be just fine with a 12" sub assuming you are listening at sane levels. If you'd like to go with a 15" the only trade off you'll have is $$$ out of your pocket and a bigger box. If I were you I would NOT go with the L12. Nothing wrong with it and the only case to go that route would be if you wanted to due 2 of them which could balance out room nodes. If you are going with just 1 sub get the F12.

The standard amp with XLR should be fine. However very much depends how you are hooking this up to your system. If you are using RCA/ LFE out from your system into the RCA/ LFE in then standard amp is fine. Most people aren't running speaker wires to their sub they typically just use the LFE input.

I will say once again that you can't go wrong with Rythmik - they are amazing subs!
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Last edited by kwoody51; 08-18-2019 at 01:49 PM.
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post #6 of 8 Old 08-18-2019, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds good! I do believe that part is settled at least . One last question on the F12 in that case, Aluminum cones or the paper GR cones in your opinion?
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post #7 of 8 Old 08-18-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Snake X View Post
Sounds good! I do believe that part is settled at least . One last question on the F12 in that case, Aluminum cones or the paper GR cones in your opinion?
I have the GR/ paper cone which is fine for me as sub is mainly for music.

I honestly don't know if there is much difference as my understanding is that the servo will help keep things inline from a woofer movement standpoint.

I only have the GR/ paper cone as I got the sub used and that's what it had. I would have been happy with either one.

Said differently totally your call... perhaps a question to the folks at Rymthik could help

On the amp I'm pretty sure this is the one I have A370PEQ - I'm having a hard time telling what difference is from this vs the PEQ3.

Also looks like the F12G is on backorder which I don't know if that would impact your decision. Again the guys are Rymthik can tell you what the delay might be.
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Last edited by kwoody51; 08-18-2019 at 01:56 PM.
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post #8 of 8 Old 08-27-2019, 05:19 PM
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For you rthymic guys using subs in a 2 channel system, how do you deal with any phase delay or get the sub timed right with no delay settings? (a la REL type setup).
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