How many subwoofers does your main home theater have? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: How many subwoofers does your main home theater have?
1 26 15.20%
2 69 40.35%
3 21 12.28%
4 33 19.30%
5 5 2.92%
6 8 4.68%
7 5 2.92%
8 0 0%
9 1 0.58%
10+ 3 1.75%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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How many subwoofers does your main home theater have?

Just wanted to get a general idea of how many subwoofers most people have in their home theater.
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post #2 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 03:32 PM
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Are we counting living/family/entertainment rooms too? Or just separate dedicated theater rooms with rows of seating?

I'm the former, and only have one (HSU VTF15-MK2). One day I'll have an actual theater with 4 subs
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post #3 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
Are we counting living/family/entertainment rooms too? Or just separate dedicated theater rooms with rows of seating?

I'm the former, and only have one (HSU VTF15-MK2). One day I'll have an actual theater with 4 subs
Yes, I am referring to your "main" home theater whether it is a living/family/entertainment room setup or a separate dedicated theater room with multiple rows. If you have a living/family/entertainment room home theater and and separate dedicated theater room, vote based on how many subwoofers you have in your dedicated room. Basically, vote based on the "best" setup you have.
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post #4 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 04:16 PM
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3...

2 subs w/dual 18'' drivers and 1 mbm with one 12''
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post #5 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 04:35 PM
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Two PSA s3601's in main setup
One Rythmik lv12r in bedroom
One Dayton 8 in sons room
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post #6 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 05:11 PM
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16 subwoofer drivers (8in) in 2 in-floor subwoofers enclosures;

Next build: x32 (10in) subwoofer drivers in 8 enclosures in 2 line arrays.

Smaller driver (10in) = better control; All driver enclosures are sealed.
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post #7 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 06:15 PM
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I didn’t see “Not Enough” listed as an option...
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post #8 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will P View Post
Smaller driver (10in) = better control
Maybe do a little more research on that, it's a myth..
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post #9 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 09:26 PM
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I can't remember the last time when someone noted that 18in subwoofer was more musical than a 10in subwoofer..

Last edited by Will P; 08-20-2019 at 10:07 PM.
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post #10 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 09:54 PM
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Every time the subwoofer size is increased or the driver motor design is modified to provide "High Output" that reduces the cone control. That reduces the "musicality" of the subwoofer, it's ability to blend in with the speakers.

All you have to do is take a closer look at the Impedance and Phase graphs around Fs.

The harder it is for the driver motor to control the cone the more uneven the graphs appear.

Below are the Impedance/ Phase graphs for some Dayton Audio Reference 10in, 10in HO, 15in, 15in HO and 18in HO subwoofer drivers.

Last edited by Will P; 08-24-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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post #11 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 10:14 PM
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The larger driver has to move much less for the same excursion as a smaller driver since the SD is so much more. Smaller drivers do not sound better, a properly designed subwoofer sounds better, no matter the size.

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
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post #12 of 48 Old 08-20-2019, 10:26 PM
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For the same SPL one has to use multiple smaller subwoofers to match the Vd , not just the Sd of a bigger sub.

The penalty for more musical subwoofer is the increased price of the multiple subwoofers. It's usually x3 more expensive to use multiple smaller subs to match the Vd of a much bigger subwoofer.

That's the nature of audio - for any gain there is a penalty.
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post #13 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will P View Post
For the same SPL one has to use multiple smaller subwoofers to match the Vd , not just the Sd of a bigger sub.

The penalty for more musical subwoofer is the increased price of the multiple subwoofers. It's usually x3 more expensive to use multiple smaller subs to match the Vd of a much bigger subwoofer.

That's the nature of audio - for any gain there is a penalty.
I'm not one of those Floyd Toole cultists, but excuse me if I believe him over you on this one. Again, smaller = more musical/faster/more control is complete myth.

edit: And if you can blindly tell whether you are listening to a trio of 10s or a single 18 with both in properly designed systems, I will happily eat a shoe.
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post #14 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 10:31 AM
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If you know how many you have.............then you don't have enough! Just sayin.

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post #15 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 11:13 AM
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Subwoofer cone control is a well known issue.
It is audible too if you haven't heard it (pun intended)

Cone control issues are the ONLY reason why servo subs exist. The servo system tries to mitigate the cone movement erratic behavior after that deviation gets registered by the subwoofer servo amplifier.
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post #16 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will P View Post
Subwoofer cone control is a well known issue.
It is audible too if you haven't heard it (pun intended)

Cone control issues are the ONLY reason why servo subs exist. The servo system tries to mitigate the cone movement erratic behavior after that deviation gets registered by the subwoofer servo amplifier.
Servos are a holdover from a time when woofer suspensions weren't as good as they are today. With apologies to Rythmik, they aren't really needed anymore.
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post #17 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 11:43 AM
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Yes, not everybody can justify the higher price. Most people opt out of buying a servo subwoofer and with the savings they get a soundbar

BTW.. Rythmik G25HP Direct Servo subwoofer (Dual opposed 15" sealed audiophile sub with 1800WRMS amplifier) has been reviewed by Jim Wilson on December 29, 2018 from the AVS forum and is currently being rewarded with AVS 2018 Top Choice Award.

https://www.avsforum.com/rythmik-g25...woofer-review/
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post #18 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will P View Post
Yes, not everybody can justify the higher price. Most people opt out of buying a servo subwoofer and with the savings they get a soundbar

BTW.. Rythmik G25HP Direct Servo subwoofer (Dual opposed 15" sealed audiophile sub with 1800WRMS amplifier) has been reviewed by Jim Wilson on December 29, 2018 from the AVS forum and is currently being rewarded with AVS 2018 Top Choice Award.

https://www.avsforum.com/rythmik-g25...woofer-review/
C'mon, now you're just trolling. Noone said Rythmik makes bad subs, just that servo tech is not needed with modern drivers. Go do some homework and you will see some of your ideas on subwoofers are mistaken. Don't just stick your head in the sand and assume you know everything.

Sorry to OP for derailing so much, that's all from me
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post #19 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 11:56 AM
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Why so defensive? Those are facts..

//
... someone said "Music is Art, Sound is Engineering" ...
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post #20 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 12:09 PM
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4 total for me.

2 - Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" in custom Marty enclosures handle 12Hz-50Hz duties and 2 - BIC 12" Acoustech behind the couch for nearfield 50 Hz-80Hz.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I guess it depends on how much you value 9-12hz.
It's kind of like chasing after the end of a rainbow. Even if you COULD travel at light speed, the rainbow would just color-shift into invisible x-ray's, and end up giving you fatal dose of radiation and you'd age everyone on the planet by 200 years via time-dilation.
As far as our lifetime is concerned, you'd have vanished...
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post #21 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will P View Post
Yes, not everybody can justify the higher price. Most people opt out of buying a servo subwoofer and with the savings they get a soundbar
OK,

An attempt to clean up this thread--Will P seems to be one of those guys that learned about subwoofers playing with car audio in mall parking lots. The teenagers yelling about how 10's and 12"s are "tighter" than 15's and 18's, sealed is the bestest way to make subwoofers and how loud is your car? THOUSAND watts! When all else fails, the most expensive one wins in mall parking lot wars!

Time to get a bit of education to prevent wasting your time typing, clogging up threads with subwoofer dogma and wasting other people's time.

https://data-bass.com/#/articles/5cb...d0ec?_k=e653rc

As far as servoes go, as ratbuddy put it--they were designed originaly for the lower Xmax PA drivers back in the 80's as a protection (not audio quality) device. To bring you up to speed, the servo drive was invented by Thomas Danley back in the 80's for professional touring subwoofers. They built them for a singer called Micheal Jackson (look it up if you need to) he dida a tour called "Bad" to support his release back in around 1987. The servo drive was specifically made to prevent driver failures on tour--very critical when tens of millions of dollars is riding on your equipment not breaking. Thomas Danley did a gig as a contractor for NASA and went on to found Danley Sound Labs which specializes in professional sound equipment--outdoor arena sound in particular. They asked him about ten years ago why no Danley subs use servo drives, he told them it is not needed anymore because of longer Xmax drivers, better cone/magnet tech, better software simulations and better processors to protect the subwoofers. Danley did not get rid of servoes because of cost, their stuff is very costly but it was eliminated because it was not needed (increased reliability) and the servo makes the moving assembly heavier which cuts efficiency. As all things tech, they have their time in the sun until something better comes along.

This is not a slight against Rhythmic, they use servoes as an attempt to get better sound quality--not to protect the sub. Just another option in the subwoofer landscape--other companies can use them if they wish as it is open source.

In summation, I hope you read the Bass Myths at Data-bass--the guy that runs it builds and tests subwoofers himself and you can get accurate measurements on many subwoofers at his site. Read his other articles about subwoofers, sound, how subwoofers are designed and so on--a big world out there. This way you can actually help other people with good advice instead of parroting audio learned in mall parking lots. Logically, if servo driven sealed tens were the ultimate subwoofer--they would be adopted and everyone would have them--they would be like cone and dome bookshelf speakers in popularity. There are reasons subwoofers are designed and built in certain ways--for different uses, different venues, arenas, cars, living rooms, theaters and the list goes on. This would be a heck of a lot easier if throwing sealed 10 inch subs at the problem fixed everything--I wish it was that easy!

Enjoy the read, sniff around at other places on the site and maybe you'll learn something--I know I did.
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post #22 of 48 Old 08-21-2019, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Servos are a holdover from a time when woofer suspensions weren't as good as they are today. With apologies to Rythmik, they aren't really needed anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
C'mon, now you're just trolling. Noone said Rythmik makes bad subs, just that servo tech is not needed with modern drivers. Go do some homework and you will see some of your ideas on subwoofers are mistaken. Don't just stick your head in the sand and assume you know everything.

Sorry to OP for derailing so much, that's all from me
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
OK,

An attempt to clean up this thread--Will P seems to be one of those guys that learned about subwoofers playing with car audio in mall parking lots. The teenagers yelling about how 10's and 12"s are "tighter" than 15's and 18's, sealed is the bestest way to make subwoofers and how loud is your car? THOUSAND watts! When all else fails, the most expensive one wins in mall parking lot wars!

Time to get a bit of education to prevent wasting your time typing, clogging up threads with subwoofer dogma and wasting other people's time.

https://data-bass.com/#/articles/5cb...d0ec?_k=e653rc

As far as servoes go, as ratbuddy put it--they were designed originaly for the lower Xmax PA drivers back in the 80's as a protection (not audio quality) device. To bring you up to speed, the servo drive was invented by Thomas Danley back in the 80's for professional touring subwoofers. They built them for a singer called Micheal Jackson (look it up if you need to) he dida a tour called "Bad" to support his release back in around 1987. The servo drive was specifically made to prevent driver failures on tour--very critical when tens of millions of dollars is riding on your equipment not breaking. Thomas Danley did a gig as a contractor for NASA and went on to found Danley Sound Labs which specializes in professional sound equipment--outdoor arena sound in particular. They asked him about ten years ago why no Danley subs use servo drives, he told them it is not needed anymore because of longer Xmax drivers, better cone/magnet tech, better software simulations and better processors to protect the subwoofers. Danley did not get rid of servoes because of cost, their stuff is very costly but it was eliminated because it was not needed (increased reliability) and the servo makes the moving assembly heavier which cuts efficiency. As all things tech, they have their time in the sun until something better comes along.

This is not a slight against Rhythmic, they use servoes as an attempt to get better sound quality--not to protect the sub. Just another option in the subwoofer landscape--other companies can use them if they wish as it is open source.

In summation, I hope you read the Bass Myths at Data-bass--the guy that runs it builds and tests subwoofers himself and you can get accurate measurements on many subwoofers at his site. Read his other articles about subwoofers, sound, how subwoofers are designed and so on--a big world out there. This way you can actually help other people with good advice instead of parroting audio learned in mall parking lots. Logically, if servo driven sealed tens were the ultimate subwoofer--they would be adopted and everyone would have them--they would be like cone and dome bookshelf speakers in popularity. There are reasons subwoofers are designed and built in certain ways--for different uses, different venues, arenas, cars, living rooms, theaters and the list goes on. This would be a heck of a lot easier if throwing sealed 10 inch subs at the problem fixed everything--I wish it was that easy!

Enjoy the read, sniff around at other places on the site and maybe you'll learn something--I know I did.
Disclosure first I own an Rythmik F18 and 2 other subs in my avatar and not an attempt to further derail this thread but which servo are we speaking about? As I was under the impression the late audio legend Arnie Nudell was the inventor of the servo back in 1968.
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post #23 of 48 Old 08-22-2019, 05:02 PM
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My HT has HSU VTF-2 & Just switched out a B&W asw620 for a 12" M+K v1250.
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post #24 of 48 Old 08-22-2019, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
Disclosure first I own an Rythmik F18 and 2 other subs in my avatar and not an attempt to further derail this thread but which servo are we speaking about? As I was under the impression the late audio legend Arnie Nudell was the inventor of the servo back in 1968.
The servo statik 1--it used a "sensing coil" on the voice coil so not a "real servo"... If you want a real honest to god servo, that would be the Servo Drive back in the 80's. An interesting beast with a servo motor that used belts to move the cones--now THAT is different. Here is a review on the model made for home theaters way back when...

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ive-contrabass

You asked--jusssss' sayin'....

From what I recall, Phoenix Gold came out with a rotary vane sub for cars back in the 90's--not sure what happened to that idea. Of course, now you can get a rotary fan woofer is you want to plunge into the depths--yes, a fan that will twist it's blades back and forth to change frequencies. Cost? Well...if you have to ask sort of thing.

The most interesting tech I've seen lately with subwoofers is the PowerSoft M-Force which uses a moving magnet with the "voice coil" wrapped around it. I hear they are just starting to roll out by a company called Rat Sound--it is a professional nightclub/arena type device. Samsung has talked about using processors that predict the distortion of drivers and will counter that distortion before it happens--not sense it to do it afterwards. That sounds pretty cool, to process the signal then apply correction to it as the processor has all the data to do that properly. The ironic part is what Samsung put this wizardry...in a sound bar! Yeah, the truth is stranger than fiction. Not sure what they are doing with driver processor correction in real time, I'm sure now that they own Harman International--the JBL/Revel engineers are playing with it. If it works, that is the end of sensing coils and I would expect really good performance from such a device.

I've never torn apart a Rhythmic sub personally--but I know if it had an actual servo motor in it with direct or belt drive somebody would of noticed. They most likely are using a sensing coil of some type which makes sense. Not often you'd see a sub that provides a free can of belt dressing. Fans, rotary subs, servo belt driven subs and the interesting M-Force mega motor 30 to 40 inch subs--pretty cool to look at some of the ways that were tried over the years and even today.

As far as Samsung's predictive actice corrective processing for speakers go, is it just me or is waiting for technology to "trickle down" from sound bars just.... bizarre?

Back to the OP, very interesting results with 2 subs strongly in the lead and 4 subs to be quite common--who knew? I'm filling peer pressure to fill up my living room with subs--but then where would I put them when my wife throws me out of the house? The van by the river won't hold a bunch of subs. I guess I'll be happy with three of them--missed being the cool kid by that much! Story of my life...
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post #25 of 48 Old 08-22-2019, 07:19 PM
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I had 12, now 2, working on 4.
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post #26 of 48 Old 08-23-2019, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
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I had 12, now 2, working on 4.
Looks like you are slipping a little bit MK on your Marie Condo sub project?

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post #27 of 48 Old 08-23-2019, 08:26 PM
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I have just drivers right now and no room. Rebuilding now. my 2 subs have more ULF than 8 of my previous models, less midbass though but using pro audio 12s in the mains. Just check out the XXX power ported numbers for one driver and swap the 10 and 12.5 hz as my tune will not be 12.5hz, but 10hz.
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post #28 of 48 Old 09-16-2019, 05:55 AM
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Good to see there some other bass freaks like me with 7 subs... In my opinion one sub per channel is what is almost ideal. Today's 7.1 hd audio tracks send full range to all channels. Full surround subs provides a very full transparent full range sound without 'hollow' sounding side and rear sound effects.
I find even good 5.1 material played via 7.1 PLIIx is simply awesome.
A great example is Spielberg's War of the Worlds.or Interstellar.
So in my system I'm still using some older subs:
2 x MK MX200 dual 12"
2 x MK V125 12" sealed
3 x Boston Accoustics SW10 10" ported, modified with 200W Dayton amps
I run the 200s as centre + LFE, the 125s as L R, the SW10s as the 2 sides, and one as real LR combined at the back middle.
So is anyone else doing anything like that? Would be good to discuss.
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post #29 of 48 Old 09-16-2019, 10:23 AM
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Just two for me in my living room set up,,,, but giving me loads of SPL when i can dial things up. One day (in my new home) i must try a BOSS set up.
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-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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post #30 of 48 Old 09-17-2019, 07:36 AM
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About 8 years ago I gave my son all my audio equipment from my home theater, including an old Velodyne 1210 subwoofer. Decided I wanted to downsize and simplify, so I replaced the gear with an integrated amp and pair of Salk floorstanders. Being without a subwoofer for several years, I got the itch again, and just recently purchased a pair of Rythmik E 15's. My new subs are way more versatile (more controls) than the old Velodyne, probably a good thing, since I no longer have bass management with the amp. I've had the new subs less than a week, and I'm still fiddling with placement and settings. I'm glad I made the purchase and I look forward to the enhanced experience in music and home theater.
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