2nd sub or single larger one? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 04:24 AM - Thread Starter
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2nd sub or single larger one?

Currently using a single SVS SB-2000. It's in the corner behind the right main speaker. I can add a second one but it would have to be either right next to the 1st one or on top of it. I don't really have a space to put a second sub on the left or by the listening area. So am I better off getting a single SB-3000 or larger?
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post #2 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 05:18 AM
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Another of the same would be cheaper and will offer a dB gain placed on top or next to the other. Are you choosing sealed due to space constraints and/or sound quality?

Maybe something like a single HSU ULS-15 or Rythmik Audio F15HP, or F18 is what you are after?

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post #3 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
Another of the same would be cheaper and will offer a dB gain placed on top or next to the other. Are you choosing sealed due to space constraints and/or sound quality?

Maybe something like a single HSU ULS-15 or Rythmik Audio F15HP, or F18 is what you are after?

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I chose a sealed sub mainly for music listening. Happy with the sub now but some movies have a crazy amount of LFE which is driving the sub to it's limits from time to time
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post #4 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 07:57 AM
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the big ported subs can be a game changer if you can fit them
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post #5 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 08:15 AM
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I agree with the above. I would see who has the best sale this weekend on a ported 15" that has port tuning. This way you can have the big low bass for movies and the tightness for music. The 15" will strain less than the 12" playing music as it has to work less to get loud due to the larger displacement. You can have it all and get the most for your money with the right sub selection.

Look at HSU, Monolith, Rythmik, Power Sound Audio, SVS this weekend.

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post #6 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mr645 View Post
I chose a sealed sub mainly for music listening. Happy with the sub now but some movies have a crazy amount of LFE which is driving the sub to it's limits from time to time
Agree with the ported recommendation given that you are hitting limits on ULF for movies. If you are within a year of purchasing the SB-2000 and you can fit/afford it simplest may be trading up to the PB-3000. It can be run sealed or ported and would give you a very significant upgrade. There a few PB-3000s left in the outlet sale right now and you could save a couple hundred dollars. If not within a year and you would need to sell SB-2000 then lots of other options as well.
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post #7 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Agree with the ported recommendation given that you are hitting limits on ULF for movies. If you are within a year of purchasing the SB-2000 and you can fit/afford it simplest may be trading up to the PB-3000. It can be run sealed or ported and would give you a very significant upgrade. There a few PB-3000s left in the outlet sale right now and you could save a couple hundred dollars. If not within a year and you would need to sell SB-2000 then lots of other options as well.
I bought the SB-2000 from a local retailer, about 6 months ago. I don't think I can exchange it. I am thinking perhaps an SB-4000 to keep the musical quality while adding headroom for movies. I could sell the SB-2000
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post #8 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr645 View Post
I bought the SB-2000 from a local retailer, about 6 months ago. I don't think I can exchange it. I am thinking perhaps an SB-4000 to keep the musical quality while adding headroom for movies. I could sell the SB-2000
For well designed subs like SVS sealed and ported are both "musical". I wouldn't make a decision based on that. Yes the SB-4000 will give you more headroom but you still will have much more impact and headroom for movies from a ported sub. However that could also depend on room size. How large is your room and is it open to other areas? In a smaller room you can get enough room gain in the ULF range from sealed subs to make up for some of what is gained from a ported sub in a larger room.
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post #9 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
For well designed subs like SVS sealed and ported are both "musical". I wouldn't make a decision based on that. Yes the SB-4000 will give you more headroom but you still will have much more impact and headroom for movies from a ported sub. However that could also depend on room size. How large is your room and is it open to other areas? In a smaller room you can get enough room gain in the ULF range from sealed subs to make up for some of what is gained from a ported sub in a larger room.
The room is 12x15, 17' ceiling. Open on one end.

Sony 85" X850G, Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures as mains. 5.1 overall system. Pioneer receiver as processor and Parasound amplification. The Vandersteens reach nicely down to 30hz but movies overdrive them, hence the sub.The little SB-2000 does nicely filling in and blending with the mains. First thought was just add another SB-2000 on the left side but I have no place to put it. I have never been a fan of ported subs but never heard one of the PB models from SVS either.
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post #10 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mr645 View Post
I have never been a fan of ported subs but never heard one of the PB models from SVS either.
I know where you are coming from. I preferred sealed subs going all the way back to the 80's-90's during my car audio days. A sealed 15" like the HSU ULS-15 is a sub I could live with for music and movies in my current room. However, after realizing how well this old ported 10" HSU VTF2 Mk1 sub shakes my floor, ported is the way to go for larger rooms for movies.

Furthermore, the internet direct brands today are unlike some subs from yesterday and many big brand subs today. Even ported they play pretty clean. The issue that causes boomy sound is bad placement and lack of room correction. So, you own it to yourself to at some point audition something like one of the ported 15" Rythmik Audio servo controlled subs..


http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FVX15.html

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html

Better yet, I hear that infinite baffle subs may be the ultimate in terms of boxless natural bass. Maybe I will try it for myself someday.

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post #11 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 10:01 AM
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two 2000 will not be a loud as one 3000 looking over the DB charts. Your only getting 3 extra db with a second sub. But it will give you more coverage. I would say get a 3000 as a second sub and upgrade the 2000 later on

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post #12 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 01:14 PM
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Two co-located SB-2000s will give you a 6 dB increase in SPL.

A single SB-3000 will have similar output as dual SB-2000s in the 40-80 Hz octave. In the 18-36 Hz octave, the dual SB-2000s will have a few dB more output.

Considering you already own an SB-2000 - if you are strictly looking for more headroom and dynamic output, the most economical solution is to simply add another one.

If you are looking for mainly an increase in headroom in the 18-36 Hz octave (where LFE is strong on action/sci-fi content), a PC-2000 will have 2-4X higher max output in this deep octave than a single SB-2000 without taking up much (if any) additional floor space.
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post #13 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr645 View Post
The room is 12x15, 17' ceiling. Open on one end.

Sony 85" X850G, Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures as mains. 5.1 overall system. Pioneer receiver as processor and Parasound amplification. The Vandersteens reach nicely down to 30hz but movies overdrive them, hence the sub.The little SB-2000 does nicely filling in and blending with the mains. First thought was just add another SB-2000 on the left side but I have no place to put it. I have never been a fan of ported subs but never heard one of the PB models from SVS either.
Ed suggested the PC2000 I was thinking you should go for the PC4000. Same small footprint as the PC2K and your SB2K but damn, the increase in overall output would be huge.

Plus you can seal it up for music if you like how it sounds in your room that way.

Off topic, but how do you like your Sony 850G? It's one of the sets I'm looking to possibly upgrade to this Xmas. What did you come from? Black levels etc...

You can PM me if you want.

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post #14 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Two co-located SB-2000s will give you a 6 dB increase in SPL.

A single SB-3000 will have similar output as dual SB-2000s in the 40-80 Hz octave. In the 18-36 Hz octave, the dual SB-2000s will have a few dB more output.

Considering you already own an SB-2000 - if you are strictly looking for more headroom and dynamic output, the most economical solution is to simply add another one.

If you are looking for mainly an increase in headroom in the 18-36 Hz octave (where LFE is strong on action/sci-fi content), a PC-2000 will have 2-4X higher max output in this deep octave than a single SB-2000 without taking up much (if any) additional floor space.
So if I understand correctly, dual SB-2000 subs will perform similar to a single PC-2000, a little better in the 40-80hz range, about the same in the 18-36 hz range. 6db meaning 4 times the output. And placing them next to each other should not be a problem.
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post #15 of 17 Old 08-28-2019, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
For well designed subs like SVS sealed and ported are both "musical". I wouldn't make a decision based on that. Yes the SB-4000 will give you more headroom but you still will have much more impact and headroom for movies from a ported sub. However that could also depend on room size. How large is your room and is it open to other areas? In a smaller room you can get enough room gain in the ULF range from sealed subs to make up for some of what is gained from a ported sub in a larger room.
@mr645

Like @confinoj said in the quote above. A well designed Port sub can also sound very good, once well integrate. So my vote would be for a ported one
My suggestion would be the best single port Sub, you can afford one for now. And not using your current sub, since it is a Seal design. Been mixing Seal and Port, are a lot more difficult to integrated together.

And enjoy-it
Than if you feel like your are still missing something, just start saving for a second one.
Cheaper in the long run, to add one better sub. Than try to replace two lesser subs


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post #16 of 17 Old 08-29-2019, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr645 View Post
So if I understand correctly, dual SB-2000 subs will perform similar to a single PC-2000, a little better in the 40-80hz range, about the same in the 18-36 hz range. 6db meaning 4 times the output. And placing them next to each other should not be a problem.
Here is the rough breakdown - single SB-2000 vs. single PC-2000 with the advantage shown for the PC2K:

50-80 Hz: similar max output
40 Hz: 1.5X (about 3 dB)
32 Hz: 2X (about 6 dB)
25 Hz: 3X (about 9 dB)
20 Hz: 4X (about 12 dB)

So dual SB-2000 will achieve parity at 32 Hz and at 40 Hz and above will have a considerable advantage. But even dual SB2K will not match a single PC2K in the 20-25 Hz bandwidth.

An SPL increase of 6 dB is a doubling of the acoustic sound pressure.

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post #17 of 17 Old 08-29-2019, 05:35 AM
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Ed suggested the PC2000 I was thinking you should go for the PC4000. Same small footprint as the PC2K and your SB2K but damn, the increase in overall output would be huge.
Yeah in that size room a PC4K under most conditions would have a lot left in the tank. As we like to say around the water cooler - 'headroom has a quality all its own'.

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