Paradigm Defiance X15 . . . - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 08-29-2019, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
NMG
Member
 
NMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Paradigm Defiance X15 . . .

Hi all,

I've read all of the reviews that I can find for this sub, but I was wondering if anyone here on the forum is running one in their setup?

I'm getting the upgrade bug and I'm thinking that would be my biggest bang for buck upgrade. The other option I was considering was adding 2 Atmos height channels to my existing 5.1 setup. I'll do that eventually as well, but I can't help but imagine that the sub would be a more significant move right now.

I'm currently running an Anthem MRX 720 with B&W speakers and an older Paradigm Studio Sub 12. The Sub 12 has a high excursion driver and is a sealed design, carrying a 1,700 watt amp, and is said to play down to 16Hz. It's a pretty compact sub. Contrast that to the Defiance which is a big ported design with a 900 watt amp. The reviews for this sub seem impressive, and I'm sure that it would give me considerably more output especially for movies. I also listen to allot of music so that's a consideration as well.

My system is in a basement that is roughly 12 wide x 20 deep with 8 foot ceilings. Seating position is near the middle of the room and I have lots of room behind me for the bigger box, which is also where the Sub 12 is situated. Not much room along the sides of the room or up front the way everything is currently laid out.

I've also considered other brands like SVS, HSU and Rythmik, but I live in Canada and by the time I pay shipping and exchange, I think the cost of the ID brands could be a prohibitive factor. I haven't priced the Defiance yet, but I'm sure I could get it under MSRP ($1,850 Canadian or roughly $1,400 US) and our money tends to go a bit further when buying Canadian products.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
NMG is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 08-29-2019, 01:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 8,015
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2712 Post(s)
Liked: 2522
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMG View Post
Hi all,

I've read all of the reviews that I can find for this sub, but I was wondering if anyone here on the forum is running one in their setup?

I'm getting the upgrade bug and I'm thinking that would be my biggest bang for buck upgrade. The other option I was considering was adding 2 Atmos height channels to my existing 5.1 setup. I'll do that eventually as well, but I can't help but imagine that the sub would be a more significant move right now.

I'm currently running an Anthem MRX 720 with B&W speakers and an older Paradigm Studio Sub 12. The Sub 12 has a high excursion driver and is a sealed design, carrying a 1,700 watt amp, and is said to play down to 16Hz. It's a pretty compact sub. Contrast that to the Defiance which is a big ported design with a 900 watt amp. The reviews for this sub seem impressive, and I'm sure that it would give me considerably more output especially for movies. I also listen to allot of music so that's a consideration as well.

My system is in a basement that is roughly 12 wide x 20 deep with 8 foot ceilings. Seating position is near the middle of the room and I have lots of room behind me for the bigger box, which is also where the Sub 12 is situated. Not much room along the sides of the room or up front the way everything is currently laid out.

I've also considered other brands like SVS, HSU and Rythmik, but I live in Canada and by the time I pay shipping and exchange, I think the cost of the ID brands could be a prohibitive factor. I haven't priced the Defiance yet, but I'm sure I could get it under MSRP ($1,850 Canadian or roughly $1,400 US) and our money tends to go a bit further when buying Canadian products.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Did you read the review at audioholics? It would be a substantial upgrade over your existing sub.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Quattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 08-29-2019, 02:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ratbuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,109
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked: 1123
You could do much worse than the X15. It's not as good an absolute value as some ID subs, but it performs very well and has the convenience of a phone app and room correction. If you can get it for ~20% off MSRP, I think it's a great move for you.
ratbuddy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 18 Old 08-29-2019, 10:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
indebtbassfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Squamish BC
Posts: 2,586
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1409 Post(s)
Liked: 2697
I think it will be a nice upgrade,,,,,, even more so if you move your MLP from the "middle" of your room's long wall if you are able. Try the first third or second third (approx) and you should get a much nicer bass response (sub location been optimal). If you are experienced in measuring "REW",,,, this will help confirm,,, although your Anthem should also give you measurements. Enjoy!!

-Marantz SR-8012
-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
indebtbassfreak is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 08-30-2019, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
NMG
Member
 
NMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Thanks all, I'll stop by some local shops to check out pricing, etc.

indebtbassfreak, unfortunately, my MLP is about as far back as I can go and still be able to have a reasonably configured 5.1 setup. I've got a wall on the left side of the room that shoots off at about a 45 agree angle before leading to the staircase, so mounting a surround speaker is virtually impossible on that side. The other wall has a window, so same dilemma.

The 5.1 setup is laid out pretty optimally for the room right now, and 5.1.2 will be easy to accommodate when I go there.

The MRX has done an incredible job of integrating the Sub 12, and bass response is miles ahead of what it was before I made that upgrade. Based on the charts it produced, my response is reasonably flat down to the low/mid 20s before falling off. Volume isn't really an issue, but more extension would be nice especially for HT. If I was only focused on music, I think the Sub 12 would do the job just fine.

Last edited by NMG; 08-30-2019 at 05:02 AM.
NMG is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 08-30-2019, 09:45 AM
Member
 
VooBass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I’m considering the X-15, too, as a second sub. I have a SVS PB4000 now. The PB4000 is awesome for foundation-crumbling subterranean bass but it’s not as strong in the higher chest-slam region that the X-15 seems to excel in. Together they be magic.
VooBass is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 08-30-2019, 01:53 PM
Member
 
Banner23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I will be buying a new sub and the X-15 is one that I am looking at. The above post mentions the PB4000 having more low end output, I was wondering how often do those sounds happen in a movie ? The X15 is great in the mid bass area, and that happens a lot, if you only hear a few minutes of very low bass in a movie, I think the X15 would be better.
Banner23 is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 08-30-2019, 02:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 8,015
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2712 Post(s)
Liked: 2522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banner23 View Post
I will be buying a new sub and the X-15 is one that I am looking at. The above post mentions the PB4000 having more low end output, I was wondering how often do those sounds happen in a movie ? The X15 is great in the mid bass area, and that happens a lot, if you only hear a few minutes of very low bass in a movie, I think the X15 would be better.
That it is, but it's not like a sub such as the PB4000 doesn't have any mid bass. In order to experience the substantial output of the X-15 over what the PB4000 has you'll be listening at around 115db or more. How often does that happen? For some, probably too much and they're losing their hearing.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Quattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 08-30-2019, 02:15 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I would also be looking at the psa v1510 and psa v1811.
rmontero1701 is online now  
post #10 of 18 Old 08-30-2019, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
NMG
Member
 
NMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 39
One thing that is complicating my decision is the amplifier specs for some of the subs.

The amp in my Sub 12 is said to have a 1,700 watt amp (3,600 watt peak) and I'm running it along with all of my other gear on the same room circuit. I've had no issues. That said, I also know that I don't listen at levels that will max it out. I don't expect that my listening habits will change with a new sub. Like I said, I'm mainly looking for more extension. More thump won't hurt, but I'm not looking to rattle dishes out of the cupboards upstairs, LOL.

So when I look at a sub like the Defiance 15, it's rated at 900 watts (1,800 peak), so I know it should be no problem at all. Less powerful than my current sub. Same situation as something like the PSA V1510 or V1811 which is rated at 960 watts (2,100 peak). If I look at something like the SVS PB-4000, it's showing 1,200 watts (5,000 peak).

At what point are guys running dedicated lines for their subs? When running duals or more? Those PSA subs look very interesting, especially the V1811 which actually has a smaller footprint than the Defiance 15. I almost have to wonder if I'd be using less power to move a big woofer in a ported box to levels that are acceptable in room, than I am asking a 12 inch driver in a sealed box to do the same. I can't imagine ever needing more than a single given my room size, and if I'm going to do it, I may as well do it right and find a sub that will last me years without wondering if I made the right choice.

So much to consider!
NMG is offline  
post #11 of 18 Old 08-30-2019, 05:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
indebtbassfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Squamish BC
Posts: 2,586
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1409 Post(s)
Liked: 2697
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMG View Post
One thing that is complicating my decision is the amplifier specs for some of the subs.

The amp in my Sub 12 is said to have a 1,700 watt amp (3,600 watt peak) and I'm running it along with all of my other gear on the same room circuit. I've had no issues. That said, I also know that I don't listen at levels that will max it out. I don't expect that my listening habits will change with a new sub. Like I said, I'm mainly looking for more extension. More thump won't hurt, but I'm not looking to rattle dishes out of the cupboards upstairs, LOL.

So when I look at a sub like the Defiance 15, it's rated at 900 watts (1,800 peak), so I know it should be no problem at all. Less powerful than my current sub. Same situation as something like the PSA V1510 or V1811 which is rated at 960 watts (2,100 peak). If I look at something like the SVS PB-4000, it's showing 1,200 watts (5,000 peak).

At what point are guys running dedicated lines for their subs? When running duals or more? Those PSA subs look very interesting, especially the V1811 which actually has a smaller footprint than the Defiance 15. I almost have to wonder if I'd be using less power to move a big woofer in a ported box to levels that are acceptable in room, than I am asking a 12 inch driver in a sealed box to do the same. I can't imagine ever needing more than a single given my room size, and if I'm going to do it, I may as well do it right and find a sub that will last me years without wondering if I made the right choice.

So much to consider!
These "max" watt bursts are just that,,,, millisecond burst "if" pushed to the limit with the right source material. My subs have at 4800 watt rms/9600 watt peak rating and my house is flexing with 4/5 amp draw,,,,,, anr their sealed subs. Unless your drawing a consistent 3000 watts (not likely) in your situation a 15a AC will be fine. To "claim more than 4X the RMS as peak is extreme imo but even if valid is millisecond peaks which a standard ac should handle just fine as they can accommodate large peaks for several seconds without blowing fuses.

-Marantz SR-8012
-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
indebtbassfreak is offline  
post #12 of 18 Old 08-30-2019, 09:43 PM
Member
 
VooBass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMG View Post
At what point are guys running dedicated lines for their subs? When running duals or more?
So much to consider!
This may be extreme overkill but I have 3 new 20 amp lines being installed in a couple weeks. I talked to SVS and was told my PB4000 would be even happier on a dedicated 20 amp line. So, when I do get a second PB4000, it seems reasonable to have 2 lines, each line also powering 300 watt amps in my DefTech towers. Then, based on the example of Denon’s new 13 channel receiver having higher power ratings on a 20 amp circuit, it would seem next gen 13 channel+ Atmos systems would also be better served by their own 20 amp circuit.

Last edited by VooBass; 08-30-2019 at 09:49 PM.
VooBass is offline  
post #13 of 18 Old 08-31-2019, 06:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ratbuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,109
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked: 1123
I think I could technically run both of my subs on one 20 amp line, but I had a dedicated 20 put in for each sub just so there's no chance of popping a breaker, since the box is in a location I can't easily access. Everything else (receiver, PC, consoles) is on a third dedicated 20 amp line. It didn't cost too much to run them, so why not?
ratbuddy is offline  
post #14 of 18 Old 09-01-2019, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
NMG
Member
 
NMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Sorry for the late replies, and thanks for the info. That's definitely helpful!

I actually decided to upgrade to 5.1.2 this weekend so I finished that project up and gave it a test run tonight. Very happy I did it. Also paid particular attention to bass performance while watching Godzilla King of the Monsters, and I have to admit that the current setup still puts a smile on my face. I still want to upgrade my sub, but I'm going to do a little more reading and figure out what I want to do before dropping the coin.
NMG is offline  
post #15 of 18 Old 09-10-2019, 07:27 AM
Member
 
Banner23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Hi, I am thinking about buying this subwoofer, also looking at the SVS SB16. The X15 has the built-in ARC room correction/EQ, a lot of subs I have looked at don't have this. Do you consider this to be an important feature ?


thanks
Banner23 is offline  
post #16 of 18 Old 09-10-2019, 07:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ratbuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,109
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked: 1123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banner23 View Post
Hi, I am thinking about buying this subwoofer, also looking at the SVS SB16. The X15 has the built-in ARC room correction/EQ, a lot of subs I have looked at don't have this. Do you consider this to be an important feature ?


thanks
I think it's mostly useful for people using the sub in a system without existing room correction. If you have a good receiver or some other means of room correction, the built-in ARC becomes far less useful. If you're putting the sub in a system with just a stereo integrated or separates, then the ARC on the sub becomes something you might want.
ratbuddy is offline  
post #17 of 18 Old Yesterday, 10:00 AM
Member
 
Banner23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I am looking for a new subwoofer and the X15 is one that I am thinking about getting. I know this sub is large so I went the store to see it in person to get an idea of the size. When seeing it in person, it really is huge, it looked like you could use it for an end table. I still might buy it, the other sub I am looking at is the SVS SB16.

I have a couple of questions, first, has anyone been able to compare both of these subs together ? Second is about the size, for those who bought it, do you find it being to big for the room, that when you walk into the room that's the first thing you notice ? My home theater is setup in the family room and I am concern how it will look in it.


Thanks
Banner23 is offline  
post #18 of 18 Old Yesterday, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Ryan Statz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada
Posts: 457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Liked: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMG View Post
I'm getting the upgrade bug and I'm thinking that would be my biggest bang for buck upgrade.
Run. Run as far away as fast as you can, and don't look behind you...

I've had the bug for over two months, now, and I can't seem to crawl out of that hole. I have one more component to get, and that should be it for (hopefully) a long time.

And I hear you on the Canadian thing - I face that same problem, too. If only our dollar was on par...

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A4 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | Elac S10EQ Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | KEF Q150 x 2 (upcoming) | Subwoofer TBD

Last edited by Ryan Statz; Yesterday at 11:01 AM.
Ryan Statz is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off