Measure TR - The Viberry - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 346 Old 10-10-2019, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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nmap would require installing still another program, which I'd rather avoid.
ping works from the mac terminal; I assumed it was also available through PuTTY. I guess I'd better double-check.
The long way works for sure.
I'd like to see some timing experiments. Since I only have one transducer, I can't contribute anything to that.
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post #302 of 346 Old 10-10-2019, 08:35 AM
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For the record, i am on Mac too, and ping didn’t work.

Just asking: as the guide recommended i renamed my pi, would that matter for the ping command?

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post #303 of 346 Old 10-10-2019, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes. Instead of raspberrypi.local, you'd need to use NEWNAME.local.
Please let me know.
Michael
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post #304 of 346 Old 10-10-2019, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, that was dumb.
PuTTY needs the address to load, so you can't use PuTTY to get the address.
Should work on a mac, though. Removed it from the guide, anyway.
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post #305 of 346 Old 10-10-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
nmap would require installing still another program, which I'd rather avoid.
l
Your linked guide relies on either iTunes or installing bonjour (which gives you the avahi daemon) so just use nmap instead for the direct route.

OSX users should be using brew so then it is just

brew install nmap

Or just use your router web UI
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post #306 of 346 Old 10-10-2019, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Those links are only to find the text that I couldn't format properly on this forum. The rest of those guides should be ignored.
Router UI wins by default.
Thanks.
Michael

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post #307 of 346 Old 10-11-2019, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Yes. Instead of raspberrypi.local, you'd need to use NEWNAME.local.
Please let me know.
Michael
Damn it, you deleted the command! What was the ping command again?

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post #308 of 346 Old 10-11-2019, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Yes. Instead of raspberrypi.local, you'd need to use NEWNAME.local.
Please let me know.
Michael
Well:

$ ping (new name).local worked, as in it shows the IP adress of your PI

It rolls down lines of some counter, but the ip adress is on each line, so mission accomplished i guess

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post #309 of 346 Old 10-11-2019, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, it only works on a mac, which, I guess, I should add back to the guide.
Make life easier for some of us, at least.
Thanks.
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post #310 of 346 Old 10-11-2019, 01:06 PM
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of no obvious use to this thread but will mention anyway

I happened to test at 1kHz sample rate earlier and found it works ok if you bump the i2c bus speed up to 400000 (instructions -> https://www.raspberrypi-spy.co.uk/20...i2c-bus-speed/)
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post #311 of 346 Old 10-11-2019, 01:14 PM
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^^ What would the purpose be?

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post #312 of 346 Old 10-11-2019, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
^^ What would the purpose be?
big numbers are better right?!

it means you could analyse to 500Hz, no idea why that would be useful in this context but nice to have the option anyway!
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post #313 of 346 Old 10-11-2019, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Would that improve the results <5Hz?
Have we (okay, you ) figured out what's going on with that bump/dip?
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post #314 of 346 Old 10-13-2019, 05:37 AM
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Matt just released another version, 0.4.0 and i just have to say thanks to Matt, he has been relentless in fixing and adding things as they have showed up He is an animal on these programming issues

So now, everything i have asked for is added and works

I’ll see if i can get some time to tinker with it the coming week

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post #315 of 346 Old 10-13-2019, 06:43 AM
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Be interested to see if your 1Hz spike has gone now
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post #316 of 346 Old 10-14-2019, 01:31 PM
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Hmm, well...some bad news. Snapshot still doesn’t capture the peak curve correctly. Here is the (true)peak curve(orange) vs the snapshot(pink). To capture both i have to do a screenshot.
This is a sweep.



Here is three sweeps and a snapshot of each. These were done back to back. Not consistent at all.



It works much better with steady state signal aka white noise. Here is three snapshots of WN’s back to back.



So sweeps or demo clips is not saved correct as snapshots, which makes comparing settings/tweaks very hard.

And the sub5hz peak is still there.


Marker works though

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post #317 of 346 Old 10-14-2019, 01:48 PM
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there isn't really a "true" peak as it is implemented today, it's an RTA so exact content of each chunk of data will vary. If the content is quite dynamic (relatively to the chunk of data required for an analysis) and/or the rate at which that data arrives varies then the peak values measured per chunk may vary. On the other hand, the peak shown when reloading a particular snapshot should be deterministic because now the data set is known in advance and it replays it chunk by chunk.

Other implementations are certainly possible though, making the snapshot reload agree exactly with the live probably just means double buffering on the live feed & probably there should be some overlap as well
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post #318 of 346 Old 10-14-2019, 03:18 PM
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^^^ Ok, i think i understand. But if i set hold time to say 10 sec(or more) and run a sweep, the peak curve that then shows on the graph seems very consistent. If i do 3 of those and take screen shots of them and then overlay them, i think they would match even better than the WN in pic above.

Hmmm......maybe i can use it that way.


Also i tried running WN and then flip phase on one of my 3 TR devices, and not much happened with the WN curve, strangely enough.

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post #319 of 346 Old 10-14-2019, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Also i tried running WN and then flip phase on one of my 3 TR devices, and not much happened with the WN curve, strangely enough.
That's the kind of thing we need more of.
Might possibly conclude that phase and timing might not be important for TR, even though they are very important for FR.
I doubt that, but this will give us the evidence we need to know for sure, and the tool to use if they are important.
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post #320 of 346 Old 10-15-2019, 12:04 AM
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^^^^ Oh, make no mistake: phase and timing is EXTREMELY important ! I can literally REMOVE all TR by setting it all wrong !!!

I don’t know, i find white noise simply to be to noisy/ unstable/ all over the place to make consistent results from it. My earlier tests have shown that sweeps shows the same shape of the curve and i find it much more stable/ repetetive for use in tuning/tweaking.

All this is very detectable using VS.
I will test more, but i am kind of bummed that my initial plan didn’t work.

Note that my setup is a bit extreme as i have a TR device under the front of my seat(BK), under the rear(MA) and behind(VNF), so getting them all to work in unison is key. What i have found so far is getting it to kind of teeter tooter rocking motion is very effective, involving the Y axis more, not just X-axis. Spesially in the single digits.

So not necesserily all moving unison up and down
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post #321 of 346 Old 10-15-2019, 12:32 AM
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Here is an example playing some content, again The Meg at 2:20. Only difference is second pic is BK’s inverted. Look at 10-20hz, but also 30-40hz and how much smoother the curve is in first pic.

(Never mind the bottom(live) curves)



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post #322 of 346 Old 10-15-2019, 01:37 AM
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A white noise average should be quite stable, isn't it what your earlier graph suggests?
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post #323 of 346 Old 10-15-2019, 01:52 AM
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^^^ They were actually peak, but yeah avg is something i will try out more.

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post #324 of 346 Old 10-15-2019, 08:53 AM
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@Nalleh - Those results don’t surprise me at all with your BKs inverted in the mix compared to not inverted in the 30-40hz area, with the former (inverted) creating a dip in comparison on that Meg Clip.

I get the same thing if I run the BKs inverted (even though they still feel nice down low), even though mine are cantilevered and yours are in the front. It was the same way with them directly under me though. It’s been a while since I’ve ran any VS, but I can EASILY notice the difference in feel in that 30-40hz area these days. Its way sharper and visceral feeling with them not inverted, which is one of my favorite characteristics about the BKs in the mix. I find a couple great ones to really feel this difference on are in Shazam (whole ending scene) and Venom street chase scene where you are getting hit after hit of this type of feel.

Can you feel the difference as well, or does it just mainly read different with not much difference in feel?

Also, I totally agree with Nalleh, if all this stuff with timing is off too much, it can totally wipe out your TR with cancelation. In the past when I had my timing too far off, it would kill pretty much ALL 12hz and surrounding area TR, which has always been one of my strongest TR frequencies in my current room. TR timing with more than one TR device really does seem to work just about like SPL cancelation with more than one subs when out of time/phase. The more TR devices (and subs) one has, the more important it becomes.
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post #325 of 346 Old 10-15-2019, 09:07 AM
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^^ Oh yeah, i can feel a difference

The way i usually do it is trying a couple different phase and timing configs of the whole system, and them have a listen to them, switching between them and let the ol’bum decide.

But it often ends up like with REW and the sound: what measures best, usually feels best too .

However not all ideas one THINK should measure well end up doing so
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post #326 of 346 Old 10-15-2019, 10:40 AM
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Hi Nalleh,
Thinking about your post from a awhile back, I had a question for you. I get what you were seeing with the addition of more mass, but that led me to a different question about how your sensor is attached to that mass. That looks like velcro in the picture and I would imagine that you could have some small amount of movement at that junction at the frequencies we are talking about. I'm curious if you would see any difference in your results with a solid attachment versus the velcro. If so, would it be frequency dependent, possibly including a resonant frequency around which the impact on the results is centered? I may be overestimating the impact, but I thought I'd throw it out there.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
More testing today

I was interested in how weight affects the measurements, so i tested with just the sensor, the sensor fastened ON the RPI, and then the whole thing fastened on the powerbank. All together it is a pretty neat selfcontained package
When i push the button i am pointing at, it starts the RPI, and here we go !



Here is white noise with just sensor, sensor+RPI and sensor+RPI+powerbank.
The more weight, the more it skews towards ULF.


...

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post #327 of 346 Old 10-16-2019, 05:11 AM
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^^ That was just a test, but the sensor is so light and the velcro was very tight, so that shouldn’t be a problem.


Ok, so i tested some more with avg-avg instead of avg-peak. And it works reasonably well with steady signals like white noise. Here is 4 measurements with a stop between each, to let the avg "reset". To get a good result you need to increase hold time to min 10 sec and then let the signal run for at least 15 sec to stabilize the graph.



And here is with one device inverted at a time. Info in lower right corner of graph.



I am also able to see differences in the curve live by doing timing adjustment and then wait to see if the curve changes.

Not as presice as say doing sweeps in REW(which is very repeatably), but it should be enough to get results.

If doing sweeps and capturing the correct peak curve would work, it would be much faster and easier to do.


PS: the graphs above are snapshots that are saved and then reloaded.

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post #328 of 346 Old 10-16-2019, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
I am also able to see differences in the curve live by doing timing adjustment and then wait to see if the curve changes.
When I was doing these, I did notice somewhat of a lag between the signal and the resultant graph, so waiting is very important.
Great work.
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #329 of 346 Old 10-16-2019, 09:54 AM
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@Nalleh what sweep Freq range and length are you using?
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post #330 of 346 Old 10-16-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
When I was doing these, I did notice somewhat of a lag between the signal and the resultant graph, so waiting is very important.
Great work.
Michael
Yes, doing avg means just that: average. Not sure if the snapshot captures the same no matter what hold time you use, but at least when i used 10 sec and then waited a bit more than that, the curve looked pretty stable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
@Nalleh what sweep Freq range and length are you using?
The above was white noise signal, but when i use sweeps i normally use 1-200hz and not sure about length, but it is whatever is default in REW.

Note: i also use a bit of smoothing on my graphs because without it they get very jagged.

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