"Upgrading" my Funk Audio 18.1 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Although i struggle to fully understand,,,,, from 20Hz on down i see the S3010 really compressed (purple line touching?) vs the S3611 which some compression the lines arent touching and at below 15Hz starts to improve even more. So i'm assuming that means cleaner output with even more headroom below 15Hz on the 3611?

Even with that it sounds like for a single sub choice the Triax is the best choice.
I think if the S3611 DSP tuning was similar to the S3010(least amount of roll off), they would look pretty close down low. If you compare the uncompressed 110db sweep you can see they are pretty close overall. The S3010 extending deeper on the base response means that the output gets clamped faster as the volume goes up. The S3611 biggest advantage is in the 30-50hz.
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post #32 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I know the SQ difference between an entry level sub and higher quality ID-brand subs is noticeable. But when talking HT use only, I thought brands like PSA, Rythmik, Funk, and others (Seaton, JTR) all had such high quality parts and designs that SQ difference (not SPL) is negligible, again for HT use only? Only for those who also listen to music do the different brands bring different SQ results to the table?
Yes, there is a difference!! Although all ID brands are good quality there is a difference in sound signature (by design) and SQ. For example and my subjective taste, my JTR S1's sounded very good for music and movies,,, but better for movies. While my Funks to me are significantly better for music,,, and although very good in movies i think i'd give a slight edge to the S1's as they seem to have had a little more down low with more tactile feel which is what i like for movies.

Subs with a little more distortion can sound thicker and have more tactile feel,,, while very low distortion subs like Funk/Rythmik to some may not feel like there is as much tactile feel. Usually the lower distortion subs imo will be better for music (subjective)

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post #33 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I think if the S3611 DSP tuning was similar to the S3010(least amount of roll off), they would look pretty close down low. If you compare the uncompressed 110db sweep you can see they are pretty close overall. The S3010 extending deeper on the base response means that the output gets clamped faster as the volume goes up. The S3611 biggest advantage is in the 30-50hz.
So in a nut shell,,, at lower volume the S3010 will have deeper extension, but at higher volume the S3611 will have a bit more headroom in the teens do to less compression?

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post #34 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yea that sounds like a good buy to me. It was rated +9db stronger then the XS30se down low. So it would take roughly 2 S3010's to equal one Triax.

That's about what Tom said.


So the ultimate question now stands: the single Triax or two S3010's (each would be equidistant from the MLP)?
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post #35 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Sub is exactly 10' from my MLP. And it (the Funk) measures fairly flat according to ARC except for a null around 70Hz.

One last question. If I'm only worried about frequency response at one seat (the MLP) and no other spots, is there any significant benefit to a dual sub setup over a single powerful sub?

Say it was a choice between (2) 3011's or a single 3611...does a dual sub setup like that provide much over a single more powerful sub for HT usage where speakers are crossed over between 80-100Hz and only one seat matters?

Thanks again


I am amazed no one is talking about the SQ difference between the funk and the PSA. That is something you would notice immediately. Something to consider.


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That's sub...iirc...used the old ribbed driver from the original 18.0c measured at data bass...it's not the TSAD...which imo humble opinion is superior in every facet...thou the newer ipal units are getting rave reviews

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post #36 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
So in a nut shell,,, at lower volume the S3010 will have deeper extension, but at higher volume the S3611 will have a bit more headroom in the teens do to less compression?
On paper yes but you won't hear it. Our ears are not sensitive enough to hear a couple DB difference below 20hz. Also at low volumes where the base response sweeps are taken, you won't even notice anything below 20hz at that volume level.

Look up the equal loudness curve. I don't remember exactly but You need something like 8-10 more db @ 10hz to sound the same level as 20hz. So basically 10hz doesn't even become noticeable until 100db or so.

My guess is the S3611 will sound heavier down low due to the increased Tactile Response from the larger drivers.
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post #37 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
On paper yes but you won't hear it. Our ears are not sensitive enough to hear a couple DB difference below 20hz. Also at low volumes where the base response sweeps are taken, you won't even notice anything below 20hz at that volume level.

Look up the equal loudness curve. I don't remember exactly but You need something like 8-10 more db @ 10hz to sound the same level as 20hz. So basically 10hz doesn't even become noticeable until 100db or so.

My guess is the S3611 will sound heavier down low due to the increased Tactile Response from the larger drivers.
Thanks basshead81 for taking the time to explain.

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post #38 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Hey all,

So I've had a Funk Audio 18.1 (with upgraded 1000w DSP amp) for over a year now and it has been phenomenal except it does lack sub 20Hz performance (-6dB @18Hz). I knew going into the purchase at that time that I would be trading ultra low end performance for greater output above 20Hz, especially once I got into the 35Hz+ region. But now I want to try and get some very good sub-20Hz performance. Usage is strictly Blu-ray and UHD movies (no music).

Room is 24x14x8, closed off. I reached out to PSA and after talking with Tom he said their new TV36 would be a very good upgrade for >25Hz performance. However, the height of the TV36 simply will not work in my setup. He also thought that neither the S1811, V1811, or S3010 would provide much, if any, noticeable upgrade to my current Funk sub (though he did say the S3010 would provide some strong output down to 11Hz, but total output wouldn't be much more than the Funk overall). He did say that a used Triax I am looking at would be a very noticeable upgrade for me (his words "it would be closer to having dual S3010's").

For a budget around $2000 (can go up to $2500 max), are there any other subwoofers I should be looking at that would be a noticeable upgrade over my Funk 18.1?

Thanks!
I mean... if you're feeling generous or anything... I know a guy who wouldn't mind taking care of that Funk Audio 18.1 if you're upgrading.... *cough*
If you could swing a deal...go for it. That unit by all accounts would be a great sub fit that you're looking for in your music set-up and likely be a solution to handle both duties...if your inclined. 🙂

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post #39 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:54 AM
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If you could swing a deal...go for it. That unit by all accounts would be a great sub fit that you're looking for in your music set-up and likely be a solution to handle both duties...if your inclined. 🙂
I don't have that kind of money hahaha

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post #40 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
That's about what Tom said.


So the ultimate question now stands: the single Triax or two S3010's (each would be equidistant from the MLP)?
Well with budget in mind the Triax hands down. However your buying a used sub (privately) and who knows how much abuse its had or its true condition. A pair of S3010's will even out bass response while giving great extension your looking for,, buying bran new with Tom's full support and five year warranty, but over budget.

That been said,,, it's not like Tom wouldn't help you out "if" there was a problem with the Triax. Decisions decisions
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post #41 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I am amazed no one is talking about the SQ difference between the funk and the PSA. That is something you would notice immediately. Something to consider.
The Funk 18.1 utilizes a driver very similar to the JTR Cap 118HT. Very well balanced for both HT and music. The driver was not hand-built by Nathan like his newer stuff.

I believe the PSA Triax uses a Fi Car Audio driver very similar to the Seaton MFW-15 Turbo driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I know the SQ difference between an entry level sub and higher quality ID-brand subs is noticeable. But when talking HT use only, I thought brands like PSA, Rythmik, Funk, and others (Seaton, JTR) all had such high quality parts and designs that SQ difference (not SPL) is negligible, again for HT use only? Only for those who also listen to music do the different brands bring different SQ results to the table?
That was the narrative for quite some time that seems to finally be debunked. Or better said perhaps, is that the debunking is more widely accepted now.

Since PSA has now been offering 3 tiers of drivers (rather than just one base tier) more folks have been able to experience the differences that can be achieved with higher quality drivers.
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There is a distinct difference in the SQ of all these ID manufacturers. I just encourage you to keep that in mind so you are not kicking yourself later. Funk SQ is top notch.
The Funk 18.1 is not the pinnacle of Funk's SQ. With BCJ's sealed room I do suspect the Triax will offer better performance than the 18.1 (with optimal placement).
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post #42 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Since a dual sub setup is on the table as an upgrade route, are there any other brands/models that I should be looking at for a dual setup (like two Rythmik subs worth looking at, etc)?
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post #43 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 01:10 PM
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^^ Didn't you own a Rythmik before?
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post #44 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 02:04 PM
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Thought he owned a pair of F25's in the past.
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post #45 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 02:12 PM
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Thought he owned a pair of F25's in the past.
Yea... iirc..I remember he posted ARC...graphs on the f25s on the Anthem thread....I would've being happy camper with a pair of those.
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post #46 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Those F25s were years ago for me unfortunately. Sold in late 2015 when I had to disassemble my dedicated theater room.

Since then I had gone through various subs in a 10x11 room until I moved into the condo I have now and got the Funk 18.1 for a good used price. At that time I wasn't overly concerned about deep deep bass and merely good output above 20Hz.

Now I'd like to get back to trying to dig deep again with the size restrictions I have per sub placement.
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post #47 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Some more back and forth with Tom (cannot stress enough how well he is with customer support/overall input for anyone looking to purchase) and he thinks that (2) S1812's with his upcoming new drivers would have close to the same extension and output as a Triax ("maybe a dB or two off here and there") while obviously providing the benefits of a dual sub setup. Pretty certain I'll pull the trigger on them unless anyone has a last moment suggestion.

Thanks all!
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post #48 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 04:20 PM
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I have heard the F25, the s3000i and the Triax in all different rooms and found there is a difference in SQ between them. For HT, I would consider a couple big vented subs unless you can afford 4-8 sealed subs.
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post #49 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I have heard the F25, the s3000i and the Triax in all different rooms and found there is a difference in SQ between them. For HT, I would consider a couple big vented subs unless you can afford 4-8 sealed subs.

Would you have a recommendation for say a budget around $2500 of two vented subs to look at?


Also, I hope it wasn't assumed I wanted to stick with only sealed subs in this thread. Definitely open to vented since my usage is HT only, just as long as they can "dig deep" as well.
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post #50 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 04:38 PM
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If your trying to keep price under $2k and you want great low frequency output under 20 Hz, I think the Rythmik FV18 paper cone is a great option. Being ported, it will offer the most tactile response below 20 Hz compared to sealed options, even if you ended up with equivalent output which would require two VERY strong sealed subs.

You can switch between 12 and 16 Hz tunes.
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post #51 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 04:48 PM
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BCJ,
JTR makes excellent subs that dig very deep for HT and have the most TR which is super cool. IMO, the current best performance per dollar ported sub has to be the Rythmik FV18 (get the paper cone for your usage). If you must have a pair now for $2500, get the Rythmik FV15hps pair. If it was me, I would get the FV18 now and get another one later. I definitely don’t get sealed sub for HT (again, unless I can have 8)

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post #52 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
BCJ,
JTR makes excellent subs that dig very deep for HT and have the most TR which is super cool. IMO, the current best performance per dollar ported sub has to be the Rythmik FV18 (get the paper cone for your usage). If you must have a pair now for $2500, get the Rythmik FV15hps pair. If it was me, I would get the FV18 now and get another one later. I definitely don’t get sealed sub for HT (again, unless I can have 8)

What makes the paper cone better for HT usage?



Would dual FV15HPs be a noticeable upgrade over what I have now? Would a single FV18 be a noticeable upgrade (assuming I can only get one for the time being)?
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post #53 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 05:22 PM
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^^ The paper cone gains more than 3db above 40hz over the Alu driver, so it has more slam and TR for HT. It loses a little SQ as compared to the Alu driver. The FV18 is a noticeable upgrade over the fv15 due to having 2 ported operating at 12hz (vs one port from fv15). It also has a bigger cab, driver and amp, so I would definitely start with 1 fv18. I have not heard the Funk so I cannot comment if the fv15 pair or an FV18 will be an upgrade. You will gain more output down low over your Funk though. As a returning Rythmik customer, you will get discount, who doesn’t want to save some $$

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post #54 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all.


I think I may order a 25ft XLR cable and move my Funk behind my seating later this week to see how frequency response looks at that spot. If it is better than what I get now in the front corner, that might open up my purchase options some more for subs I can't currently fit in the front of the room (like the new PSA TV36ipal or other options of similar size).



Otherwise I will have to make a decision based on suggested subs already discussed
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post #55 of 90 Old 09-10-2019, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Well. Got some bad news today from my grad school office regarding a nice mix up in my stipend and tuition waiver money, so my budget is now nowhere near what I thought I could stretch.



I'm now at a budget around $2000 max (possibly a hundred or two above with shipping included). And there is definitely not a possibility of me adding a second sub in the future. So for that price point, would there be a single sub solution that would get me what I am looking for (deeper extension while still great overall output)? Or even a dual sub solution that will get me good extension (at least compared to what the Funk gives me now) while having the benefits of a dual sub setup?
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post #56 of 90 Old 09-10-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Well. Got some bad news today from my grad school office regarding a nice mix up in my stipend and tuition waiver money, so my budget is now nowhere near what I thought I could stretch.



I'm now at a budget around $2000 max (possibly a hundred or two above with shipping included). And there is definitely not a possibility of me adding a second sub in the future. So for that price point, would there be a single sub solution that would get me what I am looking for (deeper extension while still great overall output)? Or even a dual sub solution that will get me good extension (at least compared to what the Funk gives me now) while having the benefits of a dual sub setup?
Rythmik FV18 paper cone is within budget, possibly the JTR 118HT and the new PSA V1812 would all be good options. Maybe take a look at the SVS PB/PC4000 too.

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post #57 of 90 Old 09-10-2019, 02:41 PM
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post #58 of 90 Old 09-11-2019, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Just get that Triax and call it good.

After sending a message to the Triax owner, I'm not entirely sure I want to risk going used (the response I got was just very quick and almost sounded like seller was annoyed).

Rythmik got back to me with a price shipped for the FV18 that would be about $250 less than the used Triax. Worth it you think? Or would taking a risk on the Triax still be the hands down better choice?
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post #59 of 90 Old 09-11-2019, 07:57 AM
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Rythmik got back to me with a price shipped for the FV18 that would be about $250 less than the used Triax. Worth it you think? Or would taking a risk on the Triax still be the hands down better choice?
I think you already know the answer. Go with what you feel right.
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post #60 of 90 Old 09-11-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
After sending a message to the Triax owner, I'm not entirely sure I want to risk going used (the response I got was just very quick and almost sounded like seller was annoyed).

Rythmik got back to me with a price shipped for the FV18 that would be about $250 less than the used Triax. Worth it you think? Or would taking a risk on the Triax still be the hands down better choice?
Forgot to mention in the email that if you pick the subwoofer up at your local UPS Freight Center, you will save extra $100. You would need a pickup truck or a large SUV, though.
CallingMrBenzo likes this.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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