"Upgrading" my Funk Audio 18.1 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 90 Old 09-11-2019, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Forgot to mention in the email that if you pick the subwoofer up at your local UPS Freight Center, you will save extra $100. You would need a pickup truck or a large SUV, though.

I could do that as well. Sounds like the FV18 is the choice for me!
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post #62 of 90 Old 09-11-2019, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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And for the price they are offering I could see about picking up a second one next year with my tax return possibly
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post #63 of 90 Old 09-11-2019, 08:36 AM
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^^ Excellent! I am sure you'll much prefer ported sub for your HT application. The FV18 is an outstanding sub.
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post #64 of 90 Old 09-13-2019, 07:51 AM
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I don't see the FV18 being a significant upgrade over the Funk 18.1 but congrats either way. Perhaps you will be able to integrate both and keep the Funk which should make for a potent setup.


That being said, I'm not sure why you didn't just go Rythmik from the get go since you have had their stuff before and they are local.
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post #65 of 90 Old 09-13-2019, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I don't see the FV18 being a significant upgrade over the Funk 18.1 but congrats either way. Perhaps you will be able to integrate both and keep the Funk which should make for a potent setup.





That being said, I'm not sure why you didn't just go Rythmik from the get go since you have had their stuff before and they are local.


Isn’t the Funk a sealed sub? From what Marc says about the driver on this model this should be a noticeable difference.


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post #66 of 90 Old 09-13-2019, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Isn’t the Funk a sealed sub? From what Marc says about the driver on this model this should be a noticeable difference.


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No the 18.1 is a ported 18". Its has been mentioned in the past as been close to the JTR 118's output but not deep extension.
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post #67 of 90 Old 09-13-2019, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
No the 18.1 is a ported 18". Its has been mentioned in the past as been close to the JTR 118's output but not deep extension.


Got it. So then the FV18 should be a noticeable upgrade due to its deep extension.


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post #68 of 90 Old 09-13-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Got it. So then the FV18 should be a noticeable upgrade due to its deep extension.


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Yes i believe it should be quite noticeable below 20Hz. For some reason i thought sealed were the choices the OP was interested in otherwise the FV18 paper cone would have been my 1st recommendation under $2K along with the Triax if in good condition.
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post #69 of 90 Old 09-14-2019, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Yes i believe it should be quite noticeable below 20Hz. For some reason i thought sealed were the choices the OP was interested in otherwise the FV18 paper cone would have been my 1st recommendation under $2K along with the Triax if in good condition.
I emailed Nathan about the used 18.1 that was in the outlet and this was the specs.

Here are the basics;



Amplifier Features and specs;



Class D

PFC (power factor correction) switching power supply

Zero latency double precision DSP

110/220V operation

High output current capability 35amps max

Frequency response 5-45khz -3db

S/N 100 db (unbalanced); 98 db (balanced)

slew rate 30V/us

Damping factor 20-200hz >1000

800 watts @1%THD



DSP presets(we set a fixed upper limit crossover in the DSP of 200hz, so it

must be run with a "sub out" signal for the sub/system crossover)

1; No EQ, natural response of driver and enclosure, designed to match room

giant in small/average rooms, maximum overall output capability.

2; +3db low shelf for larger rooms

3; +6db low shelf for Large rooms

4; +8db low shelf for anechoic flat response to 16hz



Driver features and specs;



1.65" max p-p Excursion

over 1" linear p-p Excursion

High force compact Neodymium Motor

4" Voice coil diameter

1200 watts AES power handling

Aluminum demodulating ring

low inductance

High efficiency 98db/1watt

Dual spider

Cast aluminum frame

Weatherproof cone



Enclosure features and specs;



Baltic birch ply construction

1.5" thick front baffle

Low turbulence slot port

18.5 Hz tuning

Response to 15 Hz

20.5" wide 24" deep 27" high


So like I said before. I don't think the FV18 will be a substantial upgrade over the 18.1. The driver used in the Funk is likely in the realm of IPAL quality by the specs and efficiency. With 800watts it's likely to hit 126db above 50hz.

The FV18 does offer deeper extension but it's likely going to give up output above 20hz to the 18.1. which is why I kept saying grab the Triax because it's not going to give up anything and offer deeper extension.

Last edited by basshead81; 09-14-2019 at 06:13 AM.
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post #70 of 90 Old 09-14-2019, 07:11 AM
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Hi basshead81, you certainly have a lot more knowledge than myself to summarize driver specs. Knowing Funks performance in general i knew that the only likely advantage on the Rythmik would be below 20Hz. I'm pretty sure it was a post from Nathan a while back where he said the 18.1 it would have similar output to the 118. He has ordered it so i guess its moot now.

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post #71 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 07:59 AM
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Well the 118HT has a lot of output above 16hz, so it mimics exactly what I said previously. The Cap 118 HT hits 105db @ 16hz, 110db @ 20hz, and 122db above 50hz, The 2019 cap 118HT hits 107db @ 16hz, 113db @ 20hz, and 125db above 50hz.


The 18.1 has a 98db per 1watt efficient driver. so add 3db to 98 for every time you double power up to 800watts. That puts the driver capable of 126db or so with 800 watts. It could probably produce another 2-3db if it was fed more power being it can handle 1200watts.


So even if you add 2.5 db to the FV18 numbers up top with a paper driver it's around 121-122db. The FV has more output in the 10-15hz range and it probably has a different sound signature. I am not saying it was a bad choice. The extra 5hz down low and a slight loss in upper bass output might be very worth it to the OP.



yes it is a moot point now, so this is my last post here.

Last edited by basshead81; 09-15-2019 at 08:03 AM.
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post #72 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Well the 118HT has a lot of output above 16hz, so it mimics exactly what I said previously. The Cap 118 HT hits 105db @ 16hz, 110db @ 20hz, and 122db above 50hz, The 2019 cap 118HT hits 107db @ 16hz, 113db @ 20hz, and 125db above 50hz.


The 18.1 has a 98db per 1watt efficient driver. so add 3db to 98 for every time you double power up to 800watts. That puts the driver capable of 126db or so with 800 watts. It could probably produce another 2-3db if it was fed more power being it can handle 1200watts.


So even if you add 2.5 db to the FV18 numbers up top with a paper driver it's around 121-122db. The FV has more output in the 10-15hz range and it probably has a different sound signature. I am not saying it was a bad choice. The extra 5hz down low and a slight loss in upper bass output might be very worth it to the OP.



yes it is a moot point now, so this is my last post here.
Not to mention the OP's Funk 18.1 has the 1000 watt amp upgrade which would bump those numbers a touch higher.
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post #73 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 09:22 AM
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Not much thou...1k or double gives you about a 2-3db advantage throughout the frequency range...but even so.. that driver is purdy stout above 50hz...going by the unit tested at DB and reviewed by JR back a few yrs.

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post #74 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
Not much thou...1k or double gives you about a 2-3db advantage throughout the frequency range...but even so.. that driver is purdy stout above 50hz...going by the unit tested at DB and reviewed by JR back a few yrs.
Yes i get that the extra 200 watts equates to less than a DB extra lol,, i only mentioned it as i think basshead81 didn't know of the 1000 watt amp been used to drive the sub.

Hopefully the extra output below 20Hz results in the OP's hopes and expectations,, as that was his goal. He will likely need a little playing time to adjust to the different sound signature.

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post #75 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Didn't know this was still going on but glad as I appreciate still reading the responses. A small tempting wrench was thrown into the choice at the last minute with Nathan offering a 21" option for a very very very good price. Where would a 21" Funk have factored into the possible choices?

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post #76 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Didn't know this was still going on but glad as I appreciate still reading the responses. A small tempting wrench was thrown into the choice at the last minute with Nathan offering a 21" option for a very very very good price. Where would a 21" Funk have factored into the possible choices?


Top choice.
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I think that funk 21 would be my choice.

What kind of finish? I’m curious on what the good price was. Ive always wanted to try one, but out of my budget.

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post #78 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Separate of the Funk 21" possibility, I was able to cancel my Rythmik order today before it shipped as I need to evaluate my ongoing tuition issue with my school this week, along with switch out my AVR for a step down model for extra funds and then re-evaluate where I am at. It would still be between the FV18 as a clear choice. And possibly, depending on final price, the custom offering Nathan has for me (if it is still an option on his end).



As a totally honest question, how well does a Funk 21 (new from his in-house parts and all that) fit into HT applications for deep extension and high output overall?
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post #79 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jsc79 View Post
I think that funk 21 would be my choice.

What kind of finish? I’m curious on what the good price was. Ive always wanted to try one, but out of my budget.

When I emailed him last week no definitive price was said, he just said he thought he could offer me a 21" in my price range (back when I was thinking of stretching to $3k range).
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post #80 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Separate of the Funk 21" possibility, I was able to cancel my Rythmik order today before it shipped as I need to evaluate my ongoing tuition issue with my school this week, along with switch out my AVR for a step down model for extra funds and then re-evaluate where I am at. It would still be between the FV18 as a clear choice. And possibly, depending on final price, the custom offering Nathan has for me (if it is still an option on his end).



As a totally honest question, how well does a Funk 21 (new from his in-house parts and all that) fit into HT applications for deep extension and high output overall?
It's hard to say without knowing the specifics of the 21 on offer (amp,cabinet size etc)
But if its a sealed 21" I'd guess the Rythmik FV18 to have a few dB advantage from 25Hz and under, and the Funk 21 to have a fairly significant advantage in the 35Hz and up range
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post #81 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
When I emailed him last week no definitive price was said, he just said he thought he could offer me a 21" in my price range (back when I was thinking of stretching to $3k range).


I would still take dual 18s for the price of one 21inch.


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post #82 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
It's hard to say without knowing the specifics of the 21 on offer (amp,cabinet size etc)
But if its a sealed 21" I'd guess the Rythmik FV18 to have a few dB advantage from 25Hz and under, and the Funk 21 to have a fairly significant advantage in the 35Hz and up range

Again, no specifics as I haven't talked to him further but he had said it would be in the size range of their 21.0 cabinet (so ~26" wide, ~24" deep, ~30" high) with a 2400w amp
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post #83 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I would still take dual 18s for the price of one 21inch.


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It wasn't until my new (smaller) AV stand came in this week and I put it together that I realized I can't fit duals upfront due to my fish tank. Relocating that would be...not an option lol. So at least for this room in my condo, which I will be in for the next 4 years minimum, a single sub is my limit in terms of fitting them. Behind the couch was also ruled out as a potential spot. So while I get my stupid tuition crap figured out this week, the "choices" are more clear in that whatever sub I finally get (as long as my funds are no longer in question once it is all straightened out) can only be a single regardless of price.
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post #84 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 12:56 PM
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If Nathan is talking about the trade in 21.0 in Sequoia Burl then yes 2400watt amp. According to specs (in room) response is averaging about 108DB's from 20Hz to 10Hz and low 120's above that.

I have no idea (if that is the sub in question) what he is offering it to you for, but website says $6K if that's the one on his "specials" page. I do agree with Imureh that if there is room for two 18"'s i'd take that option over a singe 21". Having said that,,,, i can say my two 21.0LX subs in an "open" 2400^3 room to the rest of the small house 10,000^3 will pressurize the house enough to bend windows in multiple rooms,, so a single in a 2700^3 sealed room should do pretty well even though it doesn't have the LX driver imo. Just saying!!

I missed the "new from in house parts" part of your post. Didn't cross my mind you would be offered any version of a "new" 21" that would be anywhere near your budget. As Marc mentioned if thats the case Nathan can set you up for more ULF capability either by tweaking the driver or the larger cabinet, or a combination of both.
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post #85 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
As a totally honest question, how well does a Funk 21 (new from his in-house parts and all that) fit into HT applications for deep extension and high output overall?
How well? Superbly
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Again, no specifics as I haven't talked to him further but he had said it would be in the size range of their 21.0 cabinet (so ~26" wide, ~24" deep, ~30" high) with a 2400w amp
This is the larger cabinet that is used for the 24.0 and the 21.0L.

I just happen to own both the FV18 and dual Funk 21s in the larger cabinet. If Nathan can work within your budget the 21 is a no-brainer IMO.

This larger cabinet allows Nathan several driver options as well as 2400W or 4800W amp, all according to your needs & budget. Getting a non-veneered, black finish will save you quite a bit. It is still superior to any other ID sub's standard finish as it still utilizes the curved cabinet and rounded edges. That being said, it was worth it to me to get a veneer. It is not too much extra if he has enough surplus veneer from another project.

When Nathan has subs in the outlet (which aren't prototypes) they are usually customer trade-ins/returns. You can offer less than is listed if the original owner agrees. This is how returns (and trades) work with Funk Audio. Because everything is built custom to-order, you don't get your refund until the sub is resold via the outlet. Or you can choose to sell yourself. Which reminds me, I have a several subs I need to sell, including a pair of Funk DO12s (20x20x20 in³). BCJ, if you could fit duals in this dimension send me a PM or ask Nathan about dual 18.0Cs (20x20x20 in³). They aren't listed on the website anymore but he can still build them.

I have the 4800W (2x2400W) amp powering both 21s. The driver Nathan used for me provides the output close to the 24.0 ≤40Hz and the 21.0L ≥ 40Hz at a much lower cost than the 21.0L or 24.0.

Let me know if you have further questions.
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post #86 of 90 Old 09-15-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
How well? Superbly
This is the larger cabinet that is used for the 24.0 and the 21.0L.

I just happen to own both the FV18 and dual Funk 21s in the larger cabinet. If Nathan can work within your budget the 21 is a no-brainer IMO.

This larger cabinet allows Nathan several driver options as well as 2400W or 4800W amp, all according to your needs & budget. Getting a non-veneered, black finish will save you quite a bit. It is still superior to any other ID sub's standard finish as it still utilizes the curved cabinet and rounded edges. That being said, it was worth it to me to get a veneer. It is not too much extra if he has enough surplus veneer from another project.

When Nathan has subs in the outlet (which aren't prototypes) they are usually customer trade-ins/returns. You can offer less than is listed if the original owner agrees. This is how returns (and trades) work with Funk Audio. Because everything is built custom to-order, you don't get your refund until the sub is resold via the outlet. Or you can choose to sell yourself. Which reminds me, I have a several subs I need to sell, including a pair of Funk DO12s (20x20x20 in³). BCJ, if you could fit duals in this dimension send me a PM or ask Nathan about dual 18.0Cs (20x20x20 in³). They aren't listed on the website anymore but he can still build them.

I have the 4800W (2x2400W) amp powering both 21s. The driver Nathan used for me provides the output close to the 24.0 ≤40Hz and the 21.0L ≥ 40Hz at a much lower cost than the 21.0L or 24.0.

Let me know if you have further questions.
Is the sound signature between the Funks and the Rythmiks(assume high damping)similar?

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18
Speakers: L/R Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2 - Center - Horizon w/RAAL Surrounds: Sonance VP62R SST/SUR. Vinyl:Rega Planar 3
Video: Sony XBR65X900e 65" 4K - Sony UBP-X800 Blu Ray
Power and Processing: Yamaha RXA1030 - Monolith 7X Amp - Minidsp 2X4 HD/WI-DG
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post #87 of 90 Old 09-16-2019, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Talked with Nathan some more today. He offered me a 21.0L cabinet with some "B stock" parts (2400w amp with one bent fin and a driver with an imperfection that doesn't affect performance). Final price fits within my budget if I really stretch it and assume I can sell my current Funk. So that seems like the logical choice
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post #88 of 90 Old 09-16-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Talked with Nathan some more today. He offered me a 21.0L cabinet with some "B stock" parts (2400w amp with one bent fin and a driver with an imperfection that doesn't affect performance). Final price fits within my budget if I really stretch it and assume I can sell my current Funk. So that seems like the logical choice
Call him back with your deposit ASAP!!!!!! Did you ask if he would take the 18.1 in to reduce cost more?

-Marantz SR-8012
-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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post #89 of 90 Old 09-16-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Call him back with your deposit ASAP!!!!!!
This ^^^
NOW! Tell him you want a low tuned ported 21".
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post #90 of 90 Old 09-16-2019, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Well. Paid him. He said it would take about a month to put together. Time to wait.
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