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post #1 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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"Upgrading" my Funk Audio 18.1

Hey all,

So I've had a Funk Audio 18.1 (with upgraded 1000w DSP amp) for over a year now and it has been phenomenal except it does lack sub 20Hz performance (-6dB @18Hz). I knew going into the purchase at that time that I would be trading ultra low end performance for greater output above 20Hz, especially once I got into the 35Hz+ region. But now I want to try and get some very good sub-20Hz performance. Usage is strictly Blu-ray and UHD movies (no music).

Room is 24x14x8, closed off. I reached out to PSA and after talking with Tom he said their new TV36 would be a very good upgrade for >25Hz performance. However, the height of the TV36 simply will not work in my setup. He also thought that neither the S1811, V1811, or S3010 would provide much, if any, noticeable upgrade to my current Funk sub (though he did say the S3010 would provide some strong output down to 11Hz, but total output wouldn't be much more than the Funk overall). He did say that a used Triax I am looking at would be a very noticeable upgrade for me (his words "it would be closer to having dual S3010's").

For a budget around $2000 (can go up to $2500 max), are there any other subwoofers I should be looking at that would be a noticeable upgrade over my Funk 18.1?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Hey all,

So I've had a Funk Audio 18.1 (with upgraded 1000w DSP amp) for over a year now and it has been phenomenal except it does lack sub 20Hz performance (-6dB @18Hz). I knew going into the purchase at that time that I would be trading ultra low end performance for greater output above 20Hz, especially once I got into the 35Hz+ region. But now I want to try and get some very good sub-20Hz performance. Usage is strictly Blu-ray and UHD movies (no music).

Room is 24x14x8, closed off. I reached out to PSA and after talking with Tom he said their new TV36 would be a very good upgrade for >25Hz performance. However, the height of the TV36 simply will not work in my setup. He also thought that neither the S1811, V1811, or S3010 would provide much, if any, noticeable upgrade to my current Funk sub (though he did say the S3010 would provide some strong output down to 11Hz, but total output wouldn't be much more than the Funk overall). He did say that a used Triax I am looking at would be a very noticeable upgrade for me (his words "it would be closer to having dual S3010's").

For a budget around $2000 (can go up to $2500 max), are there any other subwoofers I should be looking at that would be a noticeable upgrade over my Funk 18.1?

Thanks!


Can you not lay the TV36 on it’s side like in my picture?
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post #3 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you not lay the TV36 on it’s side like in my picture?

Unfortunately no. The room is 24x14 but it is a single room layout of both a kitchen area and my theater setup (theater setup area itself is 12x14). The front of the room has a TV stand, the right side of the room has a sliding door that leads outside (so can't lay it on that side of room) and there is no easy way to run wiring to the back of the room to run a sub behind my seating. Even if I could run wiring behind the seating, I've never run measurements back there so I'd be very weary buying a sub that would only work in that one spot and find out it has a terrible in-room response from there.
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post #4 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Hey all,

So I've had a Funk Audio 18.1 (with upgraded 1000w DSP amp) for over a year now and it has been phenomenal except it does lack sub 20Hz performance (-6dB @18Hz). I knew going into the purchase at that time that I would be trading ultra low end performance for greater output above 20Hz, especially once I got into the 35Hz+ region. But now I want to try and get some very good sub-20Hz performance. Usage is strictly Blu-ray and UHD movies (no music).

Room is 24x14x8, closed off. I reached out to PSA and after talking with Tom he said their new TV36 would be a very good upgrade for >25Hz performance. However, the height of the TV36 simply will not work in my setup. He also thought that neither the S1811, V1811, or S3010 would provide much, if any, noticeable upgrade to my current Funk sub (though he did say the S3010 would provide some strong output down to 11Hz, but total output wouldn't be much more than the Funk overall). He did say that a used Triax I am looking at would be a very noticeable upgrade for me (his words "it would be closer to having dual S3010's").

For a budget around $2000 (can go up to $2500 max), are there any other subwoofers I should be looking at that would be a noticeable upgrade over my Funk 18.1?

Thanks!


How big is your room? I don’t think you will get the same SQ that u do from the Funks. Have you talked to Nathan? If you are in an open room with no room gain you should be looking at a ported sub but they are likely to be large to get strong performance below 20hz.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #5 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
How big is your room? I don’t think you will get the same SQ that u do from the Funks. Have you talked to Nathan? If you are in an open room with no room gain you should be looking at a ported sub but they are likely to be large to get strong performance below 20hz.


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It's 24x14x8. The 18.1 Funk I have right now is ported, however I believe it is the cone that restricts this model from digging as deep as other ported Funk subs (it has less travel/excursion if I recall correctly when I asked around about it before buying).
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post #6 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 05:50 PM
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So,,, 2700^3 Total,,, including kitchen??? Floating floor i assume? To get deep and keep sub size as small as possible The Triax Tom mentioned/ The PSA 3611 (not sure how it compares to the Triax? I would consider the G25HP as well. I think any of those three will get you what you want on a 2700^3 floating floor.

-Marantz SR-8012
-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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post #7 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Hey all,

So I've had a Funk Audio 18.1 (with upgraded 1000w DSP amp) for over a year now and it has been phenomenal except it does lack sub 20Hz performance (-6dB @18Hz). I knew going into the purchase at that time that I would be trading ultra low end performance for greater output above 20Hz, especially once I got into the 35Hz+ region. But now I want to try and get some very good sub-20Hz performance. Usage is strictly Blu-ray and UHD movies (no music).

Room is 24x14x8, closed off. I reached out to PSA and after talking with Tom he said their new TV36 would be a very good upgrade for >25Hz performance. However, the height of the TV36 simply will not work in my setup. He also thought that neither the S1811, V1811, or S3010 would provide much, if any, noticeable upgrade to my current Funk sub (though he did say the S3010 would provide some strong output down to 11Hz, but total output wouldn't be much more than the Funk overall). He did say that a used Triax I am looking at would be a very noticeable upgrade for me (his words "it would be closer to having dual S3010's").

For a budget around $2000 (can go up to $2500 max), are there any other subwoofers I should be looking at that would be a noticeable upgrade over my Funk 18.1?

Thanks!
My advise....keep the 18.1 and add a BOSS platform for $200. The 20Hz and lower will be there in spades and you'll feel like you just spent another $2500 for another subwoofer and then some. Put the other $2300 in the bank for another home theater upgrade.

The BOSS is known for its natural reproduction of 20Hz and lower content for both music and movies.

Here's a link if interested in BOSS technology....it's cheap, it's easy to build, and best of all it will enhance your current subwoofer nicely below 20Hz.

BOSS Build Details
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post #8 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
So,,, 2700^3 Total,,, including kitchen??? Floating floor i assume? To get deep and keep sub size as small as possible The Triax Tom mentioned/ The PSA 3611 (not sure how it compares to the Triax? I would consider the G25HP as well. I think any of those three will get you what you want on a 2700^3 floating floor.

The foundation is concrete that had a floor built over it (2x8's secured to the concrete, then 1/2" plywood covering). Would this still count as floating for all intents and purpose?



Of those three you listed, which would you go with?
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post #9 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 06:51 PM
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The foundation is concrete that had a floor built over it (2x8's secured to the concrete, then 1/2" plywood covering). Would this still count as floating for all intents and purpose?



Of those three you listed, which would you go with?
Definitely better than a strait slab and should allow tactile feel to be transferred through the floor. I have not heard any of those so i would start by asking Tom which of the two he would recommend the Triax has three potent 15" if you could find a used T18 then it would have three 18"s, but between the Triax and the 3611 Tom would be best to ask his advice on. The G25HP is well regarded and is well reviewed. Not sure if it will have the pure output of the two PSA's but is a strong performer.

-Marantz SR-8012
-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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post #10 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 06:54 PM
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Definitely better than a strait slab and should allow tactile feel to be transferred through the floor. I have not heard any of those so i would start by asking Tom which of the two he would recommend the Triax has three potent 15" if you could find a used T18 then it would have three 18"s, but between the Triax and the 3611 Tom would be best to ask his advice on. The G25HP is well regarded and is well reviewed. Not sure if it will have the pure output of the two PSA's but is a strong performer.


I believed the S3611 is within a couple dB of it. I would also refer to Tom

Lastly, if you like your current subwoofers, looking into the BOSS to fill the low end is a great suggestion

Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - Epson HC 5050UB *Calibrated by ChadB* - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
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post #11 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely better than a strait slab and should allow tactile feel to be transferred through the floor. I have not heard any of those so i would start by asking Tom which of the two he would recommend the Triax has three potent 15" if you could find a used T18 then it would have three 18"s, but between the Triax and the 3611 Tom would be best to ask his advice on. The G25HP is well regarded and is well reviewed. Not sure if it will have the pure output of the two PSA's but is a strong performer.

I'll ask Tom (didn't include the 3611 in my original email to him for consideration). Probably nix the G25HP out of the equation due to a slightly higher price over the PSA's (Triax I found is a great used price).



So if I go with either the Triax or the 3611 (based off which one Tom recommends), either of those will be a noticeable upgrade from the current Funk I have?



Thanks!
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post #12 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 07:06 PM
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I'll ask Tom (didn't include the 3611 in my original email to him for consideration). Probably nix the G25HP out of the equation due to a slightly higher price over the PSA's (Triax I found is a great used price).



So if I go with either the Triax or the 3611 (based off which one Tom recommends), either of those will be a noticeable upgrade from the current Funk I have?



Thanks!
Below 20Hz on a floating floor as long as it's not 20' from your MLP,,, MOST DEFINITELY!!

Edit,,

Figured i should edit as not not overdo my enthusiastic response. I dont want to boost your expectations to high lol. IMO if your sub is within 10' or so to your MLP and placed where it will measure best at your seating position i do believe below 20Hz will be a significant improvement.

-Marantz SR-8012
-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.

Last edited by indebtbassfreak; 09-08-2019 at 07:22 PM.
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post #13 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Below 20Hz on a floating floor as long as it's not 20' from your MLP,,, MOST DEFINITELY!!

Edit,,

Figured i should edit as not not overdo my enthusiastic response. I dont want to boost your expectations to high lol. IMO if your sub is within 10' or so to your MLP and placed where it will measure best at your seating position i do believe below 20Hz will be a significant improvement.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Sub is exactly 10' from my MLP. And it (the Funk) measures fairly flat according to ARC except for a null around 70Hz.

One last question. If I'm only worried about frequency response at one seat (the MLP) and no other spots, is there any significant benefit to a dual sub setup over a single powerful sub?

Say it was a choice between (2) 3011's or a single 3611...does a dual sub setup like that provide much over a single more powerful sub for HT usage where speakers are crossed over between 80-100Hz and only one seat matters?

Thanks again
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post #14 of 90 Old 09-08-2019, 08:52 PM
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Sub is exactly 10' from my MLP. And it (the Funk) measures fairly flat according to ARC except for a null around 70Hz.

One last question. If I'm only worried about frequency response at one seat (the MLP) and no other spots, is there any significant benefit to a dual sub setup over a single powerful sub?

Say it was a choice between (2) 3011's or a single 3611...does a dual sub setup like that provide much over a single more powerful sub for HT usage where speakers are crossed over between 80-100Hz and only one seat matters?

Thanks again
Even with one seating position two subs if properly integrated can do things like remove that 70Hz null for example and give a more enveloping feel of bass. But that benefit would depend on your room and placement of the subs (and set up) to have an advantage over a single more powerful sub imo. You would want the distance from the MLP to both subs to be similar so both subs will work equally hard within reason imo.

A single more powerful sub (may) hit harder at times but the room and set up will determine.

-Marantz SR-8012
-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.

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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Hey all,

So I've had a Funk Audio 18.1 (with upgraded 1000w DSP amp) for over a year now and it has been phenomenal except it does lack sub 20Hz performance (-6dB @18Hz). I knew going into the purchase at that time that I would be trading ultra low end performance for greater output above 20Hz, especially once I got into the 35Hz+ region. But now I want to try and get some very good sub-20Hz performance. Usage is strictly Blu-ray and UHD movies (no music).

Room is 24x14x8, closed off. I reached out to PSA and after talking with Tom he said their new TV36 would be a very good upgrade for >25Hz performance. However, the height of the TV36 simply will not work in my setup. He also thought that neither the S1811, V1811, or S3010 would provide much, if any, noticeable upgrade to my current Funk sub (though he did say the S3010 would provide some strong output down to 11Hz, but total output wouldn't be much more than the Funk overall). He did say that a used Triax I am looking at would be a very noticeable upgrade for me (his words "it would be closer to having dual S3010's").

For a budget around $2000 (can go up to $2500 max), are there any other subwoofers I should be looking at that would be a noticeable upgrade over my Funk 18.1?

Thanks!
I mean... if you're feeling generous or anything... I know a guy who wouldn't mind taking care of that Funk Audio 18.1 if you're upgrading.... *cough*

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | Elac S10EQ Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | KEF Q150 x 2 (upcoming) | Subwoofer TBD
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post #16 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 04:53 AM
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Sub is exactly 10' from my MLP. And it (the Funk) measures fairly flat according to ARC except for a null around 70Hz.

One last question. If I'm only worried about frequency response at one seat (the MLP) and no other spots, is there any significant benefit to a dual sub setup over a single powerful sub?

Say it was a choice between (2) 3011's or a single 3611...does a dual sub setup like that provide much over a single more powerful sub for HT usage where speakers are crossed over between 80-100Hz and only one seat matters?

Thanks again


I am amazed no one is talking about the SQ difference between the funk and the PSA. That is something you would notice immediately. Something to consider.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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Say it was a choice between (2) 3011's or a single 3611...does a dual sub setup like that provide much over a single more powerful sub for HT usage where speakers are crossed over between 80-100Hz and only one seat matters?

Thanks again
FYI the S3611 rolls off much quicker than the S3011, if you are seeking deep bass impact down to single digits a pair of S3011's will be a better option, plus it will help smooth out your frequency response.

As stated before if you love the sound of the Funks, adding the boss will be the best option and most cost effective.
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I am amazed no one is talking about the SQ difference between the funk and the PSA. That is something you would notice immediately. Something to consider.


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I know the SQ difference between an entry level sub and higher quality ID-brand subs is noticeable. But when talking HT use only, I thought brands like PSA, Rythmik, Funk, and others (Seaton, JTR) all had such high quality parts and designs that SQ difference (not SPL) is negligible, again for HT use only? Only for those who also listen to music do the different brands bring different SQ results to the table?
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FYI the S3611 rolls off much quicker than the S3011, if you are seeking deep bass impact down to single digits a pair of S3011's will be a better option, plus it will help smooth out your frequency response.

As stated before if you love the sound of the Funks, adding the boss will be the best option and most cost effective.

I mistyped.

The choice would be either a single Triax/S3010/S3611 or dual S1811/V1811's. Thoughts on those (now that I have the correct model numbers).


And looked into the BOSS option. Not viable for my setup unfortunately.
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I mistyped.

The choice would be either a single Triax/S3010/S3611 or dual S1811/V1811's. Thoughts on those (now that I have the correct model numbers).


And looked into the BOSS option. Not viable for my setup unfortunately.


Triax

Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - Epson HC 5050UB *Calibrated by ChadB* - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Even with one seating position two subs if properly integrated can do things like remove that 70Hz null for example and give a more enveloping feel of bass. But that benefit would depend on your room and placement of the subs (and set up) to have an advantage over a single more powerful sub imo. You would want the distance from the MLP to both subs to be similar so both subs will work equally hard within reason imo.

A single more powerful sub (may) hit harder at times but the room and set up will determine.

I mistyped.

The choice would be either a single Triax/S3010/S3611 or dual S1811/V1811's. Thoughts on those (now that I have the correct model numbers).
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post #22 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 07:11 AM
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I know the SQ difference between an entry level sub and higher quality ID-brand subs is noticeable. But when talking HT use only, I thought brands like PSA, Rythmik, Funk, and others (Seaton, JTR) all had such high quality parts and designs that SQ difference (not SPL) is negligible, again for HT use only? Only for those who also listen to music do the different brands bring different SQ results to the table?


There is a distinct difference in the SQ of all these ID manufacturers. I just encourage you to keep that in mind so you are not kicking yourself later. Funk SQ is top notch.


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post #23 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 07:27 AM
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I would grab that Triax...that sub was a beast.
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post #24 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 07:35 AM
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FYI the S3611 rolls off much quicker than the S3011, if you are seeking deep bass impact down to single digits a pair of S3011's will be a better option, plus it will help smooth out your frequency response.

As stated before if you love the sound of the Funks, adding the boss will be the best option and most cost effective.
Good lord i just dug into PSA graphs and i didn't expect a 10DB advantage at 10Hz for the S3010 over the 3611.

BeCoolJesus i would choose between that single Triax or dual S3010's. As mentioned hard to beat the Funk sound quality but as your objective is movies only i wasnt that concerned about pushing that issue. Yes adding a BOSS and keeping the Funk would be the best sounding and cheapest option, but this is your living room/kitchen area and i doubt you would want a platform built under your couch. "IF" that is an option it would give you the best results hands down.
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-Marantz SR-8012
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-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.

Last edited by indebtbassfreak; 09-09-2019 at 07:47 AM.
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post #25 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Good lord i just dug into PSA graphs and i didn't expect a 10DB advantage at 10Hz for the S3011 over the 3611.

BeCoolJesus i would choose between that single Triax or dual S3011's. As mentioned hard to beat the Funk sound quality but as your objective is movies only i wasnt that concerned about pushing that issue. Yes adding a BOSS and keeping the Funk would be the best sounding and cheapest option, but this is your living room/kitchen area and i doubt you would want a platform built under your couch. "IF" that is an option it would give you the best results hands down.

Do you mean the S3010 when you recommend duals? (I don't see an S3011 and realized I had mistyped that model number when replying earlier)
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post #26 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I would grab that Triax...that sub was a beast.

If it is still available from the seller when I have my funds ready in the next week or two I most likely will. He lists it as great condition minus one peg of one speaker grill being broken (which I can easily remedy) and is taking best offers with a list price already under $2k. Is that a pretty good deal for it?
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post #27 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 07:45 AM
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Do you mean the S3010 when you recommend duals? (I don't see an S3011 and realized I had mistyped that model number when replying earlier)
Yes S3010,, sorry.

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-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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post #28 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 07:45 AM
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That is a base low level response sweep...Compare the compression sweep. There isn't a 10db difference between the 2 @ 10hz when you turn the volume up.
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post #29 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 07:52 AM
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If it is still available from the seller when I have my funds ready in the next week or two I most likely will. He lists it as great condition minus one peg of one speaker grill being broken (which I can easily remedy) and is taking best offers with a list price already under $2k. Is that a pretty good deal for it?
Yea that sounds like a good buy to me. It was rated +9db stronger then the XS30se down low. So it would take roughly 2 S3010's to equal one Triax.

Last edited by basshead81; 09-09-2019 at 07:59 AM.
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post #30 of 90 Old 09-09-2019, 08:00 AM
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That is a base low level response sweep...Compare the compression sweep. There isn't a 10db difference between the 2 @ 10hz when you turn the volume up.
Although i struggle to fully understand,,,,, from 20Hz on down i see the S3010 really compressed (purple line touching?) vs the S3611 which some compression the lines arent touching and at below 15Hz starts to improve even more. So i'm assuming that means cleaner output with even more headroom below 15Hz on the 3611?

Even with that it sounds like for a single sub choice the Triax is the best choice.
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-Marantz SR-8012
-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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