Is there a good sub smaller than the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 09-09-2019, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there a good sub smaller than the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP?

I decided that I want to get the HSU subwoofer per all the recommendations here to do so. However. Once I looked it up in more detail beyond website pictures, I saw video of it in people's actual setups and almost crapped my pants. That thing is HUGE.

WAF is going to come into play here. It is giant. It is a giant black box that is 2'x2'. I'm running out of floor space as it is, pushed the boundaries on wall mounted speakers and large fronts. Things are getting nuts. So I need some help finding something that will actually fit. And that won't ruin the relationship.

Is there anything that is going to give me quality output in a smaller form factor? Or if I want good bass, is this pretty much the size it has to be?

A few notes:

- I will probably never play my system above reference volume at least not anytime soon. Probably 10db below most times, 5db below when splurging... 0db when I'm feeling crrraaayyyzzz

- I have a single detached home by neighbors are like, 10 feet away, and its a rental, with an HOA with rules on noise and what not. I can't go crazy with bass even if I wanted

Concerned about review statements like this:

Quote:
At –15 from reference, the response of this pounding bass was mind-blowing, and neither of the Hsu subs broke a sweat. In fact, when I ran into my neighbor later that afternoon, he grinned and quipped, “Reviewing a new subwoofer, eh?” Our houses are about 40 feet apart—enough said!
So, I am looking for quality bass to fill my space in proper proportion at reference level or below volumes, and likely with the LFE channel turned down a bit to ensure that I do not find myself in hot water.

Setup:
  • Marantz SR6013
  • 2 RP-280FA towers
  • 1 RP-450C Center
  • 2 RP-500SA side surrounds


Layout pics attached. If you think the HSU will fit in that corner, I think it will too - *barely*. Quite noticeably. And that is the corner of the house closest to two neighboring homes. As well, it's not an ideal corner I believe - the front right would be better, but that really sets the sub out for all to see and that makes it even harder for approval.

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Last edited by filmguy123; 09-09-2019 at 11:32 PM.
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post #2 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
I decided that I want to get the HSU subwoofer per all the recommendations here to do so. However. Once I looked it up in more detail beyond website pictures, I saw video of it in people's actual setups and almost crapped my pants. That thing is HUGE.



WAF is going to come into play here. It is giant. It is a giant black box that is 2'x2'. I'm running out of floor space as it is, pushed the boundaries on wall mounted speakers and large fronts. Things are getting nuts. So I need some help finding something that will actually fit. And that won't ruin the relationship.



Is there anything that is going to give me quality output in a smaller form factor? Or if I want good bass, is this pretty much the size it has to be?



A few notes:



- I will probably never play my system above reference volume at least not anytime soon. Probably 10db below most times, 5db below when splurging... 0db when I'm feeling crrraaayyyzzz



- I have a single detached home by neighbors are like, 10 feet away, and its a rental, with an HOA with rules on noise and what not. I can't go crazy with bass even if I wanted



Concerned about review statements like this:







So, I am looking for quality bass to fill my space in proper proportion at reference level or below volumes, and likely with the LFE channel turned down a bit to ensure that I do not find myself in hot water.



Setup:
  • Marantz SR6013
  • 2 RP-280FA towers
  • 1 RP-450C Center
  • 2 RP-500SA side surrounds





Layout pics attached. If you think the HSU will fit in that corner, I think it will too - *barely*. Quite noticeably. And that is the corner of the house closest to two neighboring homes. As well, it's not an ideal corner I believe - the front right would be better, but that really sets the sub out for all to see and that makes it even harder for approval.



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Attachment 2613362
Maybe check out Goldenear's SuperSub series? A foot cube with decent specs.

I don't use their subs, but I do have their Triton 2+ towers.

Daniel

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post #3 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 12:34 AM
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The quickest way to reducing the cabinet size is going to a sealed design. Respected companies like HSU, Rythmik, SVS, PSA, and DefTech all offer various sealed options. Rythmik has some unconventional configurations (like dual 8" in a single box) that might give you more flexibility on positioning. SVS has a cylindrical option. DefTech's SuperCube series is marketed directly at folks with space limitations.

All else being equal, ported subs have more output, but based on your listening habits I'd imagine that you'd be satisfied with a good sealed unit.

Most folks here seem to agree that dual subs will give the best performance--is two small sealed units possible for your space/an easier sell for your wife than one big ported one?
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post #4 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I could probably do two small subs, but one would be better. In a bigger space in some years, I can do whatever with a dedicated HT room!

Per my understanding, correct if wrong, reference level is pretty loud. Do many people here listen higher than that? Especially in a room size like mine pictured?

How about an SVS SB-2000 sub for my room size and needs? It's sealed, seems small, and the piano black gloss looks appealing. Would this be sufficient, and high quality? I am more worried about smooth, accurate, clean bass than quantity and volume of bass.

In fact, I am *worried* about quantity & volume. I really have to be careful of neighbor complaints. Would this sealed sub and lower power help me avoid that while still getting some great quality bass to complement my Klipsch setup? Even worth it for output/volume/power/etc? Would 1 sub be enough for now?
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post #5 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 03:21 AM
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Somebody’s selling dual RSL Speedwoofer 10s In VA. You may want to look into those as well.


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post #6 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 04:58 AM
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If you want extension down to (or below) 20Hz, you'll need a ported sub in your open space. If you're looking for good output above, say, 30Hz, both ported and sealed will work just fine.

The SB-2000 is a solid choice. Other options include:
- Rythmik L12 ($549, shipped)
- Emotiva Airmotiv S12 ($698, shipped)
- HSU ULS-15 MK2 (currently on sale for $857, shipped)
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post #7 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 06:09 AM
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The sub will only be as loud as you play it..a big subwoofer isn't necessarily for LOUD BOOM BOOM, it's to be able to play down to 20hz cleanly and easily for a balanced output level matched with your speakers. To do that, it needs size. For movies, I would suggest ported though.

Tucking it away in the corner should work. I have an HSU VTF15-MK2 which is big...it only seems big at first until you get used to it (that what she said).

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post #8 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 06:17 AM
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I have a svs sb2000 and i love it. It blends in perfect with my goldenear speakers and is very small compared to many of the ported designs. but in my small closed 13x11 room it goes as low as my 12 inch ported sub. yours is open to another room so it wont be same but if your not looking for bass that will shake walls or wake neighbors it would most likely be enough .what is your budget?
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post #9 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 07:05 AM
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No offence but your post is all over the place,,,,, your talking playing at or near reference volumes and wanting a sub, but yet your only ten feet from your neighbors and strict noise bylaws in your residence ( your concerned), so sub will be turned down. Even without a sub and running mains at full band you will piss off the neighbors at -10 or louder imo. So its challenging to really know what to recommend if in fact your planning to play at those levels.

Now at more moderate listening -15/-20DB's which imo is likely all you will get away with (neighbor tolerances dependent) then a decent sub will be able to be integrated and fill out the low end. It's tough loving your sound system and thinking of listening anywhere near reference but having limits do to close neighbors (i'm in the same situation),, and it sucks!!

If i were you and thinking about the WAF and if you can handle 18"X18" cubed the HSU ULS-15-MK2 either in black or the wife may like the nice rosewood finish will give your space nice bass response even at lower volume and go a little deeper than 10"/12". Not going ported you would want a 15" to help dig low in a smaller cabinet.

If there is enough room by the fireplace for sub position (without burning it lol) that will help somewhat distancing the bass from the nearest wall. But if that location sucks for bass response then it wont help.
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post #10 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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RE: Subs

Lots of good looking options. Splitting hairs or any clear winners? Ignoring price, just quality?

In regards to price - Local frys had a flash sale on the SVS SB-2000 Piano Black for $499. There are only some open boxes left but I don't mind that (unless I should?!) Must have deal or? While the sub is only $700 retail, the gloss is usually $100 more and looks nice for WAF. How is that deal compared to other options (say Rythmik $549) or even the HSU ULS-15?

RE: Levels
Will my new system calibrate different?

My existing Onkyo 110w and Polk Monitor series - reference is 74db I believe. I usually play these 58-77db, most often closest to 70db for movies. No sub, but towers do some ok-ish bass. Done this in an apartment w/shared walls for 10yrs and no one has complained, even with various neighbors coming and going. On the other hand, I had an old logitech sub, and if I ever had that on and did something for even 5 minutes, I go a knock on the door. Had to toss the thing out.

So I'm not sure. Maybe luck, maybe book cases absorbing, maybe a lot of chill people, maybe a different definition of reference level on a more powerful system? With all equivalent, I can't imagine in a detached home with no shared walls and 10ft of separation (there's a fence and walkway) that I couldn't do the same? Unless a Marantz 6000 with Klipsch RP280 will redefine the volumes of reference level?

RE: My Space

So my viewing area is about 13x12, but my room is 13x17 + opening to dining as pictured. I know bass travels and won't contain. But i know near field placement is a thing, too, so is it a valid assumption that the bass will still be stronger in my viewing area and the additional open rear space won't affect performance quite as much as if I was dab center in a larger room?

Will a 12" sealed sub get me ~80% of the way there (whatever that means - I know I'd miss the ability to dig deeper down to 20hz and lower, and the value of that is hard to quantify). But I also know lower frequencies travel farther and farther... (not a good thing for this scenario)
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post #11 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 01:08 PM
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This or if you can wait a couple of months there will be an improved version out.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/V1510DF

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post #12 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 03:48 PM
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There is this:

https://us.kef.com/subwoofers/ultra-...ered-10in.html

It will not perform like the HSU, but then you can't use a sub that performs like the HSU. Big bass needs a big box ... nature of the beast.

There is also this:

https://totemacoustic.com/product/tribe-sub/

Both have a lot more placement options due to their thin form factor (like right next to your seat). Neither will have the raw output of the HSU, but the Totem will be closer (and you'll pay for that privilege).

Lastly, Rythmik has a tall sub with plenty of output, 14 x 16 x 28", the L22. It may get you the best of both worlds. Stand it up or lay it down ...

EDIT: Outlaw has a small sub, with limited extension and output (which may actually be a good thing given your situation):

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/m8.html

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 09-11-2019 at 11:53 AM.
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post #13 of 14 Old 09-10-2019, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
RE: SubsWill a 12" sealed sub get me ~80% of the way there (whatever that means - I know I'd miss the ability to dig deeper down to 20hz and lower, and the value of that is hard to quantify). But I also know lower frequencies travel farther and farther... (not a good thing for this scenario)
I think the ULS-15 or PSA sealed S1510DF would be fine for your needs The VTF-3 is 24" x 17.25" x 21.5" while the ULS-15 and PSA are about 19" x 18" x 19.5".

Here they are side by side:

ULS-15 MK2, VTF-3MK5HP, VTF-2 MK5


VTF-3 MK5HP, PSA 15S


If those are still too big then the sealed

SVS SB-3000 is 15.6" x 15.2" x 17.8"
Seaton Sound JS-12 is 15" x 18" x 14"
Rythmik Audio F12 is 15.75" x 15.75" x 18.5"

OR

The SVS PC-2000 ported cylinder is 34.34"H x 16.6"W x 16.6"D. These shove in corners nicely.

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post #14 of 14 Old 09-12-2019, 10:26 AM
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I own the GoldenEar Supersub X and that thing hits hard for how small it is. It's seriously like magic. I especially love how the dual opposing drivers make it so that thing is totally inert even when blasting the bass, which helps reduce rattling in the area. You could sit right next to it and you wouldn't necessarily notice it. It is $1250, but there isn't a better tiny sub out there imho.
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