Adding 2 more subs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
  • 2 Post By lawdogx
  • 1 Post By rontalley
  • 1 Post By rontalley
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 09-16-2019, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hostility's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Whitby, Ont, Canada
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Adding 2 more subs

Right now I have 2 um18-22 subs in the full Marty box’s off an inuke 6000. They sound awesome but always could have more. My main issue is that it doesn’t sound good in some other seating spots. I can’t move these around as they are so big so they have to stay in the front corners. I did originally have them laying down under my screen but they block off the surround of the screen.. not a huge deal but visual wise looks weird. So I’m think of switching to the new behringer Amps that replace the inuke and going to 2 6000 watt amps and adding 2 more 18’s. Now what should I do with boxes. Go sealed? Individually or do 2 more ported or new boxes with 2 subs in one box. I’m not really sure what I should do to help get the bass to sound in every spot (only 3 seater couch but eventually do a 2nd row)
Hostility is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 09-16-2019, 09:10 AM
Member
 
lawdogx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Best answer: If you don't measure, you'll always just be guessing. REW is free and the Umic-1 is like $75 - best money you will ever spend on home audio, BY FAR.

Having said that, if you have the room I would go with more of what you have. Adding ported with sealed or even ported with different port tunes is a monster PITA (and, without REW, you'll never know it. You'll just have destruction at some frequency, know it doesn't sound right, and not have the tools to even try to address it).

If the issue you're trying to address is delivering more spl to a listening location that already works, then co-locating more subs will help. If the issue is nulls ("dead zones") then no amount of stacking or adding to the exact same locations will help. You can't power through a null. For a null you're going to have to find a different location/locations in the room that deliver to that location.

Also, is the inuke no longer working? There should be no issue running two new marty's off a new NX6000d and the two old marty's off an inuke. Guts should be the same.
Alan P and junior00027 like this.

SPEAKERS: 3 x DIYSG 1099's LCR; DIYSG HTM 6's and 8's surround; 4 x RSL C34E's atmos.
SUBS: 4 x UM18-22 Mini Marty's (and always building, currently working on Devastators).
SIGNAL CHAIN: Denon X4400; Minidsp 2x4 HD; 2 x Jensen Iso Sub 2RX; 2 x NX6000d.
lawdogx is online now  
post #3 of 17 Old 09-16-2019, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hostility's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Whitby, Ont, Canada
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
Best answer: If you don't measure, you'll always just be guessing. REW is free and the Umic-1 is like $75 - best money you will ever spend on home audio, BY FAR.

Having said that, if you have the room I would go with more of what you have. Adding ported with sealed or even ported with different port tunes is a monster PITA (and, without REW, you'll never know it. You'll just have destruction at some frequency, know it doesn't sound right, and not have the tools to even try to address it).

If the issue you're trying to address is delivering more spl to a listening location that already works, then co-locating more subs will help. If the issue is nulls ("dead zones") then no amount of stacking or adding to the exact same locations will help. You can't power through a null. For a null you're going to have to find a different location/locations in the room that deliver to that location.

Also, is the inuke no longer working? There should be no issue running two new marty's off a new NX6000d and the two old marty's off an inuke. Guts should be the same.
I have rew and the mic. Last winter I ran a ton of tests. Again I couldn’t really move these around due to size. I’m not wanting to mix sealed and ported. I was saying either 4 ported or 4 sealed. Sealed would be smaller boxes and can be moved around the front stage some more. I do have some nulls but I can’t really move the subs or move the couch.. I’ve tried moving couch slightly but didn’t seem to help. I thought add more subs in similar spots might help with moving the nulls? Here is a pic of front stage again other then what you see in the pic I can’t move the subs past front stage

Also I wasn’t sure about mix matching the amps.. they would look odd as my amp for my subs sits out front so I can keep an eye on the limiter light but I guess I could always build a box to fit them in and paint it so not a huge deal
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	71E487FA-CFFE-4EB5-AA49-2ACE9E0B6462_1568653917766.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	80.7 KB
ID:	2616316  
Hostility is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old 09-16-2019, 10:50 AM
Member
 
lawdogx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 170
The method I used was to move a sub to absolutely every location in my room that could fit a sub, whether it was pretty or not. For me it was 12 locations. They were all terrible, roller coaster looking sweeps. I then found locations that complimented each other, where one location's peaks lined up with another location's nulls, and together they produced nice, even bass. The problem with giving a given location more subs or more drivers or more power is that you're only summing at the frequencies that that location produces. For example, if your front right corner has peaks at 23hz and 53hz and nulls in other frequencies, giving that same location more drivers or more power will only give you higher peaks at those same frequencies. Your nulls will still be nulls.

Another method guys use is putting a sub in your MLP then moving the mic around the room and finding locations that compliment each other. maybe it'll be the side wall. maybe it'll be a back corner. Maybe it'll be a pretty location. Maybe it won't.

My best locations were the back right corner facing front and the back left wall about 2 feet from the corner facing left. They graph absurdly by themselves:



But, together they compliment each other nicely and make a pretty even response.

I also feel you with the limiter light. It's a sickness. I've got four um18 boxes and two NX6000d's and I ride the red light and want more too. One tip that might tide you over, what's your peak limiter set to? I got another 3dB just by being less stingy with my limiter ...

SPEAKERS: 3 x DIYSG 1099's LCR; DIYSG HTM 6's and 8's surround; 4 x RSL C34E's atmos.
SUBS: 4 x UM18-22 Mini Marty's (and always building, currently working on Devastators).
SIGNAL CHAIN: Denon X4400; Minidsp 2x4 HD; 2 x Jensen Iso Sub 2RX; 2 x NX6000d.
lawdogx is online now  
post #5 of 17 Old 09-16-2019, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hostility's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Whitby, Ont, Canada
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdogx View Post
The method I used was to move a sub to absolutely every location in my room that could fit a sub, whether it was pretty or not. For me it was 12 locations. They were all terrible, roller coaster looking sweeps. I then found locations that complimented each other, where one location's peaks lined up with another location's nulls, and together they produced nice, even bass. The problem with giving a given location more subs or more drivers or more power is that you're only summing at the frequencies that that location produces. For example, if your front right corner has peaks at 23hz and 53hz and nulls in other frequencies, giving that same location more drivers or more power will only give you higher peaks at those same frequencies. Your nulls will still be nulls.

Another method guys use is putting a sub in your MLP then moving the mic around the room and finding locations that compliment each other. maybe it'll be the side wall. maybe it'll be a back corner. Maybe it'll be a pretty location. Maybe it won't.

My best locations were the back right corner facing front and the back left wall about 2 feet from the corner facing left. They graph absurdly by themselves:



But, together they compliment each other nicely and make a pretty even response.

I also feel you with the limiter light. It's a sickness. I've got four um18 boxes and two NX6000d's and I ride the red light and want more too. One tip that might tide you over, what's your peak limiter set to? I got another 3dB just by being less stingy with my limiter ...
Yes I’ve thought above trying to remove the couch and place the sub there but it’s hard to move these all around by myself. Do you think maybe going to 4 18’s sealed in smaller boxes might help? Maybe I could put one on back corner and one in centre behind the centre channel, and two in the front corners. I know can’t tell unless I measure that but I’m not sure if that would be louder then my 2 ported 18’s. Also I’m not sure what you mean by my limiter? I don’t have the dsp version of the inuke, I use a minidsp before the amp
Hostility is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 09-17-2019, 11:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chadsmith013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jax, Florida
Posts: 3,850
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2255 Post(s)
Liked: 2318
add 2 sealed ones behind the couch....I have a mix of sealed and ported and never encountered any problems to speak of.

Receiver : Pioneer Elite SC-95
Front Speakers: 3 DIYSG 1099's
Surround Speakers:2 DIYSG Volt 10's Atmos: 2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Subwoofers: Dual LaVoce SAN214.50 21's in Cyclops enclosures w/Inuke 6000 DSP Channel A
Nearfield: 4 B-52 SP-1804 18s w/Inuke 6000DSP Channel B
chadsmith013 is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 09-17-2019, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hostility's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Whitby, Ont, Canada
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I may ditch the idea of a 2nd row of seating but putting a sub on back wall will definitely look odd. If I try this should I do opposite corners? Or centre of the back wall?

Edit- after using a measuring tape it would look really odd with the sub at the back wall it would stick out into the room a lot..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image_1568757657235.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	1.80 MB
ID:	2616926  

Last edited by Hostility; 09-17-2019 at 04:00 PM.
Hostility is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 09-18-2019, 06:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,604
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2249 Post(s)
Liked: 3273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
I may ditch the idea of a 2nd row of seating but putting a sub on back wall will definitely look odd. If I try this should I do opposite corners? Or centre of the back wall?

Edit- after using a measuring tape it would look really odd with the sub at the back wall it would stick out into the room a lot..
Personally, I went from two rows to a single 3 seats like you do at the moment. It give me more opportunity, for better subs locations for the MLP. And since, you have a very cozy and nice Theater. I would stick for to your present set-up. This would give some space for your other 2 subs, one the right back corner and the other next to door. Giving you one of the best scenario for multiple subs locations. As 4 corner for more TR, or 4 at mid walls locations for better overall frequencies with less TR. You have to choose your poison, my self I am going to go with 40% at the front mid wall (due to my center speaker, for two subs) and mid wall for the back wall. Once I get my new subs.


Darth

Last edited by darthray; 09-18-2019 at 07:12 AM.
darthray is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 09-18-2019, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hostility's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Whitby, Ont, Canada
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
I may ditch the idea of a 2nd row of seating but putting a sub on back wall will definitely look odd. If I try this should I do opposite corners? Or centre of the back wall?

Edit- after using a measuring tape it would look really odd with the sub at the back wall it would stick out into the room a lot..
Personally, I went from two rows to a single 3 seats like you do at the moment. It give me more opportunity, for better subs locations for the MLP. And since, you have a very cozy and nice Theater. I would stick for to your present set-up. This would give some space for your other 2 subs, one the right back corner and the other next to door. Giving you one of the best scenario for multiple subs locations. As 4 corner for more TR, or 4 at mid walls locations for better overall frequencies with less TR. You have to choose your poison, my self I am going to go with 40% at the front mid wall (due to my center speaker, for two subs) and mid wall for the back wall. Once I get my new subs.


Darth
This is why I’m debating on switching to 4 sealed for smaller boxes and to be able to move them around. Putting a monster potted box in the back will stick out so much from the back wall.
Hostility is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 09-18-2019, 07:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rontalley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 786 Post(s)
Liked: 399
Try moving the left front sub to the back left corner.
darthray likes this.

My Media Room
AVR 1-Yamaha RX-A3050 (7.2.4), AVR 2 Pioneer VSX-815-K(Used for 4ch Amp TF+TR)
Mains-Polk Audio RTi8, Center-Polk Audio CSi5, Surrounds-Polk Audio RTi4, Ceilings-Micca M-8C, Sub 1- UM18-22 (4cu.ft DIY) - iNuke 6000DSP Sub 2-Klipsch RW12D,
Projector-Looking, Screen-Da-Lite 100" Model B, TV-Vizio P-65 4K
rontalley is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 09-18-2019, 07:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chadsmith013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jax, Florida
Posts: 3,850
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2255 Post(s)
Liked: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
I may ditch the idea of a 2nd row of seating but putting a sub on back wall will definitely look odd. If I try this should I do opposite corners? Or centre of the back wall?

Edit- after using a measuring tape it would look really odd with the sub at the back wall it would stick out into the room a lot..
can you do a smallish box directly behind the couch..would provide some amazing tactile..

Receiver : Pioneer Elite SC-95
Front Speakers: 3 DIYSG 1099's
Surround Speakers:2 DIYSG Volt 10's Atmos: 2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Subwoofers: Dual LaVoce SAN214.50 21's in Cyclops enclosures w/Inuke 6000 DSP Channel A
Nearfield: 4 B-52 SP-1804 18s w/Inuke 6000DSP Channel B
chadsmith013 is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 09-18-2019, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hostility's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Whitby, Ont, Canada
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
Try moving the left front sub to the back left corner.
I was thinking that but again it would look awful because of how deep the box is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadsmith013 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
I may ditch the idea of a 2nd row of seating but putting a sub on back wall will definitely look odd. If I try this should I do opposite corners? Or centre of the back wall?

Edit- after using a measuring tape it would look really odd with the sub at the back wall it would stick out into the room a lot..
can you do a smallish box directly behind the couch..would provide some amazing tactile..
I could but read online that 3 subs isn’t good. I do have a diy Dayton 12” sub on my main floor with a svs bash 400 watt amp I could test with
Hostility is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 09-18-2019, 08:38 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rontalley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 786 Post(s)
Liked: 399
Have you considered adding bass shakers? Best thing I’ve could have done. Sometimes I forget to turn on the iNuke 6000 that powers my single UM18-22 in a closed 4cft box and still “feel” all the bass!

https://www.parts-express.com/aura-a...ducer--299-028
darthray likes this.

My Media Room
AVR 1-Yamaha RX-A3050 (7.2.4), AVR 2 Pioneer VSX-815-K(Used for 4ch Amp TF+TR)
Mains-Polk Audio RTi8, Center-Polk Audio CSi5, Surrounds-Polk Audio RTi4, Ceilings-Micca M-8C, Sub 1- UM18-22 (4cu.ft DIY) - iNuke 6000DSP Sub 2-Klipsch RW12D,
Projector-Looking, Screen-Da-Lite 100" Model B, TV-Vizio P-65 4K
rontalley is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 09-18-2019, 11:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chadsmith013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jax, Florida
Posts: 3,850
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2255 Post(s)
Liked: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
I was thinking that but again it would look awful because of how deep the box is.



I could but read online that 3 subs isn’t good. I do have a diy Dayton 12” sub on my main floor with a svs bash 400 watt amp I could test with
add 2...I first added 2 subs behind my couch..now i have 4.

Receiver : Pioneer Elite SC-95
Front Speakers: 3 DIYSG 1099's
Surround Speakers:2 DIYSG Volt 10's Atmos: 2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Subwoofers: Dual LaVoce SAN214.50 21's in Cyclops enclosures w/Inuke 6000 DSP Channel A
Nearfield: 4 B-52 SP-1804 18s w/Inuke 6000DSP Channel B
chadsmith013 is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 09-18-2019, 05:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,604
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2249 Post(s)
Liked: 3273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post
This is why I’m debating on switching to 4 sealed for smaller boxes and to be able to move them around. Putting a monster potted box in the back will stick out so much from the back wall.
I see you have the itch to get two more subs, and nothing wrong with that
Between Sealed or Ported subs, for all four of them. I am the wrong guy to ask.
Since, I Bias toward Ported Subs

Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
Try moving the left front sub to the back left corner.
I tried once having my front left sub a few feet from the right wall, and the back one in the right corner.
The result was distracting, since I could hear the bass coming from the right side. Even with the subs using a 80Hz crossover point.

On the other hand, since the OP got two powerful subs. A combination of front left/right back or front right/left back.
Might yield good results

Edit, never mind. I misread your post and thought both subs would be on the left side
My bad for this one


Darth

Last edited by darthray; 09-18-2019 at 05:29 PM.
darthray is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 09-20-2019, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hostility's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Whitby, Ont, Canada
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Tomorrow I’m going to bring my 4 wheel cart down and I’m going to put the front left sub to the back left corner and run a sweep to see how it does just for fun. I’m also going to bring my 12” Dayton sub down from the main floor and try it behind the couch and back wall in a few spots. I’ll post up the results when I finish.
Hostility is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 09-20-2019, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hostility's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Whitby, Ont, Canada
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Ok ran some test.
Blue line is the original sub position front left and right corner.
Black line is rear left corner and front right corner.
Green is front left and right corner and I added in my Dayton 12 sub from upstairs in the left rear corner.. just to see.

This is all done on quick measure on arc2 program from anthem. To me the black line looks the best but still have some dips... and the subwoofer looks awkward back there and I would have to some how route speaker wire over to it.. what do you guys think to the graphs.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1F53F47B-B03F-4D9B-AF9B-3627FF8C17DC_1569015878002.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	86.8 KB
ID:	2617958   Click image for larger version

Name:	838B141A-1ACF-4BA3-BA50-0A406189765D_1569015892540.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	84.2 KB
ID:	2617960   Click image for larger version

Name:	66133D85-A344-40D1-A499-E964AD37389B_1569015907196.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	85.6 KB
ID:	2617962  
Hostility is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off