Impedence with Shakers - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 09-18-2019, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Impedence with Shakers

So I currently have 3 x Hsu ULS-15 Mk2 in my theater. 25x15ft with 10ft ceiling. All EQ'd from a miniDSP 2x4HD
Peak SPL in 120-130db no complaints until we get below 20Hz to 25Hz. Still have respectable output down there but looking to reinforce the output without having to get monster ported subs...Like JTR Orbit Shifter x 2 or something. Have the budget, just not the will to bring in monster ported subs...plus I've always been preferential to sealed subs.

So 6 x theater seats. I am considering bass transducers for the seats. When I built the theater, and specifically the riser, I prewired speaker wire and banana plug plates for transducers for each rows (2 rows of 3 seats)

Question 1: As I have little experience with transducers (ok near none) are they going to do much as I have plenty of output from the ULS-15's? You can never have enough bass...but its worth asking.
Question 2: I have one output left on the MiniDSP...so getting a new amp to run these and use it in Bridged/mono seems to be a solid choice. Does the amp quality matter for transducers? Like a Crowne or Dayton Audio vs. Emotiva PA-1 (stable mono at 2.7 Ohm)?
Question 3: How do I wire them? 6 transducers at 4 Ohm is going to be odd...pairs in series (x3) and then Parallel? 2.67 Ohm is tough for many cheap amps.
Question 4: besides the ButtKicker Mini LFE is there another inexpensive option for sub 20hz to look at? Aura shakers appear to roll off.

Any help or suggestions with these questions is appreciated.
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post #2 of 9 Old 09-19-2019, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighModulus View Post
So I currently have 3 x Hsu ULS-15 Mk2 in my theater. 25x15ft with 10ft ceiling. All EQ'd from a miniDSP 2x4HD
Peak SPL in 120-130db no complaints until we get below 20Hz to 25Hz. Still have respectable output down there but looking to reinforce the output without having to get monster ported subs...Like JTR Orbit Shifter x 2 or something. Have the budget, just not the will to bring in monster ported subs...plus I've always been preferential to sealed subs.

So 6 x theater seats. I am considering bass transducers for the seats. When I built the theater, and specifically the riser, I prewired speaker wire and banana plug plates for transducers for each rows (2 rows of 3 seats)

Question 1: As I have little experience with transducers (ok near none) are they going to do much as I have plenty of output from the ULS-15's? You can never have enough bass...but its worth asking.
Question 2: I have one output left on the MiniDSP...so getting a new amp to run these and use it in Bridged/mono seems to be a solid choice. Does the amp quality matter for transducers? Like a Crowne or Dayton Audio vs. Emotiva PA-1 (stable mono at 2.7 Ohm)?
Question 3: How do I wire them? 6 transducers at 4 Ohm is going to be odd...pairs in series (x3) and then Parallel? 2.67 Ohm is tough for many cheap amps.
Question 4: besides the ButtKicker Mini LFE is there another inexpensive option for sub 20hz to look at? Aura shakers appear to roll off.

Any help or suggestions with these questions is appreciated.
I started with buttkicker LFE's. They're ok but slow and noisy. I have aura shakers in other rooms, they're toys but ok. I have owned earthquake QB10s (still have 2 of these unused in closet). They were far better than buttkickers. Same effectiveness but much faster, cleaner, much more useful with music, never bottomed out making horrible racket etc. Then I bought some earthquake MQB-1's on sale at amazon for $150 each (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006H3SV1E/). I absolutely love these. They're the best shakers I've had. They blend in so nicely it just feels like the subwoofer is in your seat. They're very fast and can be used with music very well. They are silent so even at low volumes you don't hear any noise from them. (Buttkickers were very noisy, qb10's a little noisy).

I've also had crowsons here, but I actually found the MQB-1's better if they're installed correctly. They need to be mounted to their brackets and bolted to your furniture. If you're planning on bolting to a platform, these wont' be the ones for you. For the price, I'd give these a try. They're so cheap you can throw them in the trash if you hate them and not be out much.

The cleanliness of the amp won't matter much. But the quality of amp will. The crown amps are terrible for driving these things. I had ok luck with an inuke dsp1000 using the DSP to up the low frequencies. My favorite amp driving these is still the buttkicker BKA1000N.

As for wiring, yes, 3 or 6 of these will present an odd load. I'd try to keep it even. 2, 4, 8.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #3 of 9 Old 09-19-2019, 04:15 AM
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@HighModulus, Give this a read.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...y-theater.html
I have 2 mounted to my couch currently( 1 JBL 12, and 1 MB Quart shallow) and I think they are great. If you have the amp already, just wire them up and give them a go.
Lots of ideas in this thread, and soooo many of them have different builds. I have 3 subs, and I love my 2 woofers in my couch, great TR, and not going to wake the wife with late
night viewing.
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post #4 of 9 Old 09-19-2019, 05:11 AM
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This may come across as thread high jack, but hear me out:

I came across this thread while trying to educate myself on Butt Kicker wiring the past three days instead of avoid starting a new thread on the subject. While I can’t offer any meaningful technical input, solution to my issue may provide an opportunity for a real life application for the OP to consider.
My issue:

I have three rows each with single 4 HT seat risers. Each seat has a ButtKicker Mini LFE installed. I have a single SA1000 from Dayton Audio to push all 12 shakers. The single amp was purchased in consult with the folks at Parts Express. They suggested I wire them in parallel and in series. They said to check the net for a diagram. I have spent three days scouring the net but have gone precisely nowhere. I figured if I am able to get help here then I will be able report my findings, and that may help answer part of the OP’s question. Thank you very much for your patience and help in advance for those kind enough to provide inputs. Cheers.
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post #5 of 9 Old 09-19-2019, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doffoh View Post
This may come across as thread high jack, but hear me out:

I came across this thread while trying to educate myself on Butt Kicker wiring the past three days instead of avoid starting a new thread on the subject. While I can’t offer any meaningful technical input, solution to my issue may provide an opportunity for a real life application for the OP to consider.
My issue:

I have three rows each with single 4 HT seat risers. Each seat has a ButtKicker Mini LFE installed. I have a single SA1000 from Dayton Audio to push all 12 shakers. The single amp was purchased in consult with the folks at Parts Express. They suggested I wire them in parallel and in series. They said to check the net for a diagram. I have spent three days scouring the net but have gone precisely nowhere. I figured if I am able to get help here then I will be able report my findings, and that may help answer part of the OP’s question. Thank you very much for your patience and help in advance for those kind enough to provide inputs. Cheers.
The SA1000 is stable to 4 ohms. The Mini LFE's are 4 ohms each. You will want the same wattage going through each transducer, which eliminates doing anything odd. Looks like your best option is to wire 4 units in 3 sets. Take 4 and wire them in series. Do this 3 times. Now you have essentially 3 units each are 16 ohms. At this point you can wire the 3 units in parallel to bring the impedance down to 5.3 ohms. This is a pretty close match to your goal of 4 ohms and should perform well.

Series means you take + from amp to + on unit 1. Then - on unit 1 to + on unit 2. Then - on unit 2 to + on unit 3. Then - on unit 3 to + on unit 4. Then - from amp to - on unit 4. We will call that a group. You can do that 3 times for all 12 of your shakers each plugged into the amp with 3 wires on + and 3 wires on -. Hope it makes sense.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #6 of 9 Old 09-19-2019, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The SA1000 is stable to 4 ohms. The Mini LFE's are 4 ohms each. You will want the same wattage going through each transducer, which eliminates doing anything odd. Looks like your best option is to wire 4 units in 3 sets. Take 4 and wire them in series. Do this 3 times. Now you have essentially 3 units each are 16 ohms. At this point you can wire the 3 units in parallel to bring the impedance down to 5.3 ohms. This is a pretty close match to your goal of 4 ohms and should perform well.

Series means you take + from amp to + on unit 1. Then - on unit 1 to + on unit 2. Then - on unit 2 to + on unit 3. Then - on unit 3 to + on unit 4. Then - from amp to - on unit 4. We will call that a group. You can do that 3 times for all 12 of your shakers each plugged into the amp with 3 wires on + and 3 wires on -. Hope it makes sense.
Awesome. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you very much.
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post #7 of 9 Old 09-19-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
@HighModulus, Give this a read.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...y-theater.html
I have 2 mounted to my couch currently( 1 JBL 12, and 1 MB Quart shallow) and I think they are great. If you have the amp already, just wire them up and give them a go.
Lots of ideas in this thread, and soooo many of them have different builds. I have 3 subs, and I love my 2 woofers in my couch, great TR, and not going to wake the wife with late
night viewing.

^^^ This! BOSS FTW!
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post #8 of 9 Old 09-19-2019, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighModulus View Post
So I currently have 3 x Hsu ULS-15 Mk2 in my theater. 25x15ft with 10ft ceiling. All EQ'd from a miniDSP 2x4HD
Peak SPL in 120-130db no complaints until we get below 20Hz to 25Hz. Still have respectable output down there but looking to reinforce the output without having to get monster ported subs...Like JTR Orbit Shifter x 2 or something. Have the budget, just not the will to bring in monster ported subs...plus I've always been preferential to sealed subs.

So 6 x theater seats. I am considering bass transducers for the seats. When I built the theater, and specifically the riser, I prewired speaker wire and banana plug plates for transducers for each rows (2 rows of 3 seats)

Question 1: As I have little experience with transducers (ok near none) are they going to do much as I have plenty of output from the ULS-15's? You can never have enough bass...but its worth asking.
Question 2: I have one output left on the MiniDSP...so getting a new amp to run these and use it in Bridged/mono seems to be a solid choice. Does the amp quality matter for transducers? Like a Crowne or Dayton Audio vs. Emotiva PA-1 (stable mono at 2.7 Ohm)?
Question 3: How do I wire them? 6 transducers at 4 Ohm is going to be odd...pairs in series (x3) and then Parallel? 2.67 Ohm is tough for many cheap amps.
Question 4: besides the ButtKicker Mini LFE is there another inexpensive option for sub 20hz to look at? Aura shakers appear to roll off.

Any help or suggestions with these questions is appreciated.
You may want to check this thread out:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...read-bass.html

The combination of BOSS and BK LFE is awesome. I had found the BKs to be noisy initially but once you set them up right they are not at all. They have a lot of power so you can dial them up as much as you want.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #9 of 9 Old 09-19-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^ This! BOSS FTW!
Yes Sir. As usual @Alan P , spot on!
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