REW subwoofer alignment Video using MiniDSP complete walk through! - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 170 Old 11-16-2019, 06:17 PM
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hey @cdy2179 , thoroughly enjoying your yourtube videos. Very nicely done and very informative indeed. Waiting on your next episode on chest slam . I think I get plenty in my setup but would love to see what you think of it and what frequencies do you think do the job.

I was thinking if you can make some videos on Room Acoustic Treatments??? Something that get into


1 - Treating room for frequencies 100-500Hz.
2 - Where to use diffusers and where to use absorbers
3 - Treating front wall vs side walls vs back wall. Back wall specially might need a bit of a variation since some sit closer 30-50" from MLP and some far more out. So may be it'd need different treatment based on distance ???? Not sure but just throwing it out.
4 - How to treat room for 7.1 VS ATMOS.

These should be super interesting to cover
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post #92 of 170 Old 11-17-2019, 10:55 AM
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Does anyone know where I can download tunes with 20-100Hz? I'd use them to calibrate bass to produce same level at 100Hz as on 50Hz as on 20Hz. Would also be interesting to see how much of a change is required to make 50Hz sound as loud as 100Hz.
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post #93 of 170 Old 11-17-2019, 12:53 PM
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post #94 of 170 Old 11-18-2019, 05:37 PM
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I was able to run REW last night and uploaded it to my miniDSP 2x4HD. It was a bit of an adventure at first given I couldn’t get a working signal in Output 2. I was able to get it through Output 3 though (Output 4 also not working.

I finally called it a night at 12:30am once the miniDSP was configured and synchronized . When I turned on some music this morning my subs weren’t playing. No signal was going through to them via the miniDSP. I went through the user manual on my computer and double-checked that the miniDSP had been synchronized through “Connect&Synchronize”. According to the software, it had been, and thus it should be in “Online Mode.” Both Configs 1 and 2 are linked. However, I was still not getting any sound.

Here’s what I observed yesterday when taking measurements. I could not get any sound when output 2 or 4 were being used regardless of if I went through input 1 or 2 on the miniDSP. However, Inputs 1 and 3 both worked, so I did all my measurements through them.

Is it possible I have a defective unit given:
1) Outputs 2 and 4 are not allowing a signal to be sent to my subs?
2) The unit shows that it’s synched yet I’m not getting sound from my subs? I am going to try something that is shown on the user manual (p.46) where I can change the miniDSP to the default output device. I was thinking this had more to do with the REW, but I’m going to try anyway.

I still want to go in and make manual changes, but there’s no use if I can’t get the unit to send a signal to my subs.

I appreciate any suggestions for troubleshooting or something I may have overlooked in the directions and on the video.

Anthem MRX1120, AC Infinity Aircom T8, Panamax 5300-PM
Speakers: KEF R700, R200C, SR/SL - Q150
Subs: Rythmik E15HP2 (x2) w/ miniDSP 2x4 HD
TV: Vizio E50-C1, Devices: Apple TV 4K, StreamSmart Pro, Xbox One, and Xbox 360

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post #95 of 170 Old 11-18-2019, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pn56Matt View Post
Is it possible I have a defective unit given:
1) Outputs 2 and 4 are not allowing a signal to be sent to my subs?
This sounds like the internal crossover needs to be bypassed. Instructions for how to do this are at 18:59 in the video. I've set the link below to start at that point.

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post #96 of 170 Old 11-18-2019, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post
This sounds like the internal crossover needs to be bypassed. Instructions for how to do this are at 18:59 in the video. I've set the link below to start at that point.

https://youtu.be/_A6gPCczhuU?t=1139
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I had already set the crossover according to this point in the video. However, I forgot to bypass it based on 1:08:50. I went back and did so. I still don't have a signal though. My pic doesn't look exactly like yours as it still has the grey.


Is there anything I need to do to send the signal through, like a final "apply" button that I'm not seeing?
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Anthem MRX1120, AC Infinity Aircom T8, Panamax 5300-PM
Speakers: KEF R700, R200C, SR/SL - Q150
Subs: Rythmik E15HP2 (x2) w/ miniDSP 2x4 HD
TV: Vizio E50-C1, Devices: Apple TV 4K, StreamSmart Pro, Xbox One, and Xbox 360

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post #97 of 170 Old 11-18-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pn56Matt View Post
Is there anything I need to do to send the signal through, like a final "apply" button that I'm not seeing?
You're showing channel 1, which is okay, but it's not one of the channels you're having a problem with. You'll need to go through all 4 channels to make sure that if there is a high-pass filter, it's way down low in frequency like the 15 Hz one you show in the pic for channel 1.
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post #98 of 170 Old 11-18-2019, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post
You're showing channel 1, which is okay, but it's not one of the channels you're having a problem with. You'll need to go through all 4 channels to make sure that if there is a high-pass filter, it's way down low in frequency like the 15 Hz one you show in the pic for channel 1.
I went back in and did the same to Channels 2 and 4. The grey curve disappeared. However, I still have no signal going through to either sub. I tried opening all Outputs for Input 1. I then did the same with Input 2. Same result.

I'm going to do a factory restore to see if I can start from scratch. I have the file to load.

If this doesn't work, I think I might have to submit a ticket through miniDSP's support portal. Even out of the package, the miniDSP didn't send a signal through channel's 2 or 4.

Anthem MRX1120, AC Infinity Aircom T8, Panamax 5300-PM
Speakers: KEF R700, R200C, SR/SL - Q150
Subs: Rythmik E15HP2 (x2) w/ miniDSP 2x4 HD
TV: Vizio E50-C1, Devices: Apple TV 4K, StreamSmart Pro, Xbox One, and Xbox 360

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post #99 of 170 Old 11-18-2019, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pn56Matt View Post
Even out of the package, the miniDSP didn't send a signal through channel's 2 or 4.

That's correct. The default configuration is channel 1 and 3 are for subs. Channels 2 and 4 are for highs. You have to configure 2 and 4 for subs.
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post #100 of 170 Old 11-18-2019, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
That's correct. The default configuration is channel 1 and 3 are for subs. Channels 2 and 4 are for highs. You have to configure 2 and 4 for subs.
Thanks for explaining this. I didn't see the defaults in the directions - just how to assign the outputs and rename them.

Anthem MRX1120, AC Infinity Aircom T8, Panamax 5300-PM
Speakers: KEF R700, R200C, SR/SL - Q150
Subs: Rythmik E15HP2 (x2) w/ miniDSP 2x4 HD
TV: Vizio E50-C1, Devices: Apple TV 4K, StreamSmart Pro, Xbox One, and Xbox 360

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post #101 of 170 Old 11-18-2019, 11:45 PM
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It's Working!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pn56Matt View Post
I went back in and did the same to Channels 2 and 4. The grey curve disappeared. However, I still have no signal going through to either sub. I tried opening all Outputs for Input 1. I then did the same with Input 2. Same result.

I'm going to do a factory restore to see if I can start from scratch. I have the file to load.

If this doesn't work, I think I might have to submit a ticket through miniDSP's support portal. Even out of the package, the miniDSP didn't send a signal through channel's 2 or 4.
After restoring the unit to factory default, I noticed the Input was set at USB the whole time. I think it's the default, and I was able to get the test tones, but once the receiver was disconnected from the computer, so was the signal.

It's late, so I'm listening at only -70. regular listening is between -45 and -50 (ARC Genesis calibrates the speakers really high now). It sounds great, and I'm looking forward to play more with the manual EQ.

I appreciate the replies from other members so far through this process. I'll post some before and after pics down the road.

-Matt
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Anthem MRX1120, AC Infinity Aircom T8, Panamax 5300-PM
Speakers: KEF R700, R200C, SR/SL - Q150
Subs: Rythmik E15HP2 (x2) w/ miniDSP 2x4 HD
TV: Vizio E50-C1, Devices: Apple TV 4K, StreamSmart Pro, Xbox One, and Xbox 360

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post #102 of 170 Old 11-19-2019, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
hey @cdy2179 , thoroughly enjoying your yourtube videos. Very nicely done and very informative indeed. Waiting on your next episode on chest slam . I think I get plenty in my setup but would love to see what you think of it and what frequencies do you think do the job.

I was thinking if you can make some videos on Room Acoustic Treatments??? Something that get into


1 - Treating room for frequencies 100-500Hz.
2 - Where to use diffusers and where to use absorbers
3 - Treating front wall vs side walls vs back wall. Back wall specially might need a bit of a variation since some sit closer 30-50" from MLP and some far more out. So may be it'd need different treatment based on distance ???? Not sure but just throwing it out.
4 - How to treat room for 7.1 VS ATMOS.

These should be super interesting to cover
Thanks! I filmed the Chest slam video over the weekend so it'll be out today or tomorrow. As for room acoustics they are right around the corner and will cover everything you asked for!
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post #103 of 170 Old 11-19-2019, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Does anyone know where I can download tunes with 20-100Hz? I'd use them to calibrate bass to produce same level at 100Hz as on 50Hz as on 20Hz. Would also be interesting to see how much of a change is required to make 50Hz sound as loud as 100Hz.
Search your phones app store for "test tone generator" There's tons of free ones where you can make custom sweeps or tones and just Bluetooth them to the AVR.
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post #104 of 170 Old 11-19-2019, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pn56Matt View Post
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I had already set the crossover according to this point in the video. However, I forgot to bypass it based on 1:08:50. I went back and did so. I still don't have a signal though. My pic doesn't look exactly like yours as it still has the grey.


Is there anything I need to do to send the signal through, like a final "apply" button that I'm not seeing?
The pic is showing only channel 1. Go to channel 2 and 4 and check there. From what I see I suspect channel two and probably 4 both have a 1k crossover that isn't bypassed.
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post #105 of 170 Old 11-19-2019, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post
Thanks! I filmed the Chest slam video over the weekend so it'll be out today or tomorrow. As for room acoustics they are right around the corner and will cover everything you asked for!
This is awesome. I"d go as far to say that your youtube channel is in fact the first that is tackling real world HT questions/answers. Great job. Keep em coming.
Just thought of another point for Acoustic Treatment. Front Baffle wall. Seems like many like to have the baffle wall and say that it brings a great improvement but then there are burning questions as to which speaker is a good fit for that. Also what kind of diffusers can be used on 1st reflection and why.....

I think when it comes to HT, its Room Room Room. We can buy 10K speakers but if the room is not treated properly, it won't sound anywhere near to what one pays for it. Finally comes the room correction to time align the speakers properly and do EQ on speakers as well.
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post #106 of 170 Old 11-19-2019, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
This is awesome. I"d go as far to say that your youtube channel is in fact the first that is tackling real world HT questions/answers. Great job. Keep em coming.
Just thought of another point for Acoustic Treatment. Front Baffle wall. Seems like many like to have the baffle wall and say that it brings a great improvement but then there are burning questions as to which speaker is a good fit for that. Also what kind of diffusers can be used on 1st reflection and why.....

I think when it comes to HT, its Room Room Room. We can buy 10K speakers but if the room is not treated properly, it won't sound anywhere near to what one pays for it. Finally comes the room correction to time align the speakers properly and do EQ on speakers as well.
Thanks and yeah I definitely noticed a void of real information on YouTube.

I actually shot a room walk through as well this weekend and touched on baffle walls and mentioned I will be covering it soon so you read my mind. And like everything we'll look at it from a science point of view and I'll show acoustically how it's superior and the issues it solves.

And you are absolutely correct setup and the room acoustic plan is everything.
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Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post
Thanks and yeah I definitely noticed a void of real information on YouTube.

I actually shot a room walk through as well this weekend and touched on baffle walls and mentioned I will be covering it soon so you read my mind. And like everything we'll look at it from a science point of view and I'll show acoustically how it's superior and the issues it solves.

And you are absolutely correct setup and the room acoustic plan is everything.
Came across this http://karlknapp.com/topics/audiovid..._analysis.html
Your thoughts?
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post #108 of 170 Old 11-21-2019, 12:07 PM
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@cdy2179 ,saw the new posted video on chest slam. Great job. Specially liked how you used RTA in REW to show which frequencies are in play. After watching the video, I gave it a shot with 10dB House Curve. These scenes did have impact but couldn't say that it was chest slamming for me. Did have loud enough volume set as well. Do you get a GOOD chest slam in your system with 10dB house curve? Also, can you check if that happens even when you disable Dynamic EQ? I don't have Audyssey (using Dirac) so don't have DEQ and wondering if that brings that slam in. Today, I'll try it out with more bass like 13-15dB to see if that happens. INuke has dsp but I have never tried it. May be worth looking into as well?
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post #109 of 170 Old 11-21-2019, 02:06 PM
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You're not going to get "chest slam" at 10Hz. See the research in this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post43534946
DEQ will help you at lower volumes. I use it all the time and love it.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...p-awesome.html
The iNuke DSP will work fine. Set a boost in the 50Hz to 100Hz region and experiment. Every body (specifically two words) is different. REW's generator function will be helpful for this.
Michael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post
Thanks! I filmed the Chest slam video over the weekend so it'll be out today or tomorrow. As for room acoustics they are right around the corner and will cover everything you asked for!
After recently discovering your previous videos I am really looking forward to watching (and learning) this. Your vid on Mini-DSP sold me. I'll be getting one to manage my 3 subs. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and spreading our disease.
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post #111 of 170 Old 11-21-2019, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
@cdy2179 ,saw the new posted video on chest slam. Great job. Specially liked how you used RTA in REW to show which frequencies are in play. After watching the video, I gave it a shot with 10dB House Curve. These scenes did have impact but couldn't say that it was chest slamming for me. Did have loud enough volume set as well. Do you get a GOOD chest slam in your system with 10dB house curve? Also, can you check if that happens even when you disable Dynamic EQ? I don't have Audyssey (using Dirac) so don't have DEQ and wondering if that brings that slam in. Today, I'll try it out with more bass like 13-15dB to see if that happens. INuke has dsp but I have never tried it. May be worth looking into as well?
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
You're not going to get "chest slam" at 10Hz. See the research in this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post43534946
DEQ will help you at lower volumes. I use it all the time and love it.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...p-awesome.html
The iNuke DSP will work fine. Set a boost in the 50Hz to 100Hz region and experiment. Every body (specifically two words) is different. REW's generator function will be helpful for this.
Michael
"dB" not "Hz" LBNL.
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post #112 of 170 Old 11-21-2019, 03:33 PM
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"dB" not "Hz" LBNL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
You're not going to get "chest slam" at 10Hz. See the research in this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post43534946
DEQ will help you at lower volumes. I use it all the time and love it.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...p-awesome.html
The iNuke DSP will work fine. Set a boost in the 50Hz to 100Hz region and experiment. Every body (specifically two words) is different. REW's generator function will be helpful for this.
Michael
Alan already covered it but yeah I mentioned dB Not Hz. I think we (human) can't hear bass below 20Hz so its all the TR below it . My question was more towards --> Is 10dB bass hot enough to give the chest slam for these gun shots in John Wick 2 movie assuming you are listening to a fairly loud level.
Thx for the links. Will read them today on my way home (1 hour 45 minutes commute back home everyday)
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Alan already covered it but yeah I mentioned dB Not Hz. I think we (human) can't hear bass below 20Hz so its all the TR below it . My question was more towards --> Is 10dB bass hot enough to give the chest slam for these gun shots in John Wick 2 movie assuming you are listening to a fairly loud level.
You have to experiment to know what works for your system and your room. A good way to get a good starting point for your house curve is to play tones at 100hz then at 30hz, then use the master volume to try to get them to sound like they are about equal in volume. The difference in volume between the two is how much you should boost with your house curve.


Quote:
Thx for the links. Will read them today on my way home (1 hour 45 minutes commute back home everyday)
You have a chauffeur?? Please do NOT tell me you are reading while driving.....
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You have to experiment to know what works for your system and your room. A good way to get a good starting point for your house curve is to play tones at 100hz then at 30hz, then use the master volume to try to get them to sound like they are about equal in volume. The difference in volume between the two is how much you should boost with your house curve.









You have a chauffeur?? Please do NOT tell me you are reading while driving.....
Could I not just use SPL meter and spl at 100 and 30hz?
Good God no. No reading while driving. I commute thru bus so best time to read.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
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Could I not just use SPL meter and spl at 100 and 30hz?
Nope. It is human hearing that is flawed in the lower frequencies and that is what must be accounted for. If 100hz and 30hz are the same SPL, you will perceive 30hz as much lower.

Google Fletcher-Munson Curve or Equal Loudness Contour.
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post #116 of 170 Old 11-21-2019, 10:38 PM
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Nope. It is human hearing that is flawed in the lower frequencies and that is what must be accounted for. If 100hz and 30hz are the same SPL, you will perceive 30hz as much lower.

Google Fletcher-Munson Curve or Equal Loudness Contour.
Ah got it. Totally makes sense. Before I read your post, I was curios so I used SPL meter and ran 100Hz and 50Hz and 30Hz and found that even though I had a 10dB curve, there was a 5dB difference b/w 100Hz and 50Hz (50 being ~5dB lower) and 30Hz was like 8dB Lowere. Wowwwwww. My House curve had 100Hz at 4dB hot and 50 at 6dB hot and 30 at 9dB. To make 50dB produce same spl as 100Hz, I had to bring 50Hz to 11dB and 30Hz to 16dB . Tried it out and wasn't too crazy about how it sounded.
Round 2: Changed to following
30Hz = 13dB
50Hz = 11dB
100Hz = 4
Muchhhh better. I mean really good. each gun shot was shaking my shirt a bit . Then I finally changed it to the following
22.5495 = 13
30.6893 = 13
49.5316 = 8.4592
80 = 4
100 = 3.64454
138.907 = 0.999999

Watching with above House Curve is a loottt of fun. Bring BOSS in the mix and it gets AMMAAZING. I know @cdy2179 mentioned many times in his last video of chest slam that its the house curve that does the job mainly. While I do agree with the statement, I still think that the kind of subs used also make a difference. I my case, I used to use Mini Marty with UXL18 driver and they were awesome when it came to pressurize the room but they didn't hit the bass as sharp. Don't get me wrong, they are very very good subs but it was lacking a bit of that super sharp bass hitting in the chest. There is lots of that in Tron movie. Compare that with Devastator Sub. Devastator Sub can hit very sharp bass right in the chest but lacks that low bass that Mini Marty offers. But, these Devastators also bring weird feelings which I think is due to particle velocity. They also sound very brutal. I mean really really mean with very clean and sharp bass. Finally running them 13dB hot with 30Hz doesn't really make me think that they are missing much in low bass area. But no matter what I did with Mini Marty, they couldn't produce as sharp bass as these Devastators do. I mean I had even tried 16dB and they would make my hair jump but the would still lack the punchyness. Not with Devastators though

In the same room these two subs performed differently applying same EQ. Clearly each sub has its strength. I do agree with him with the point that most think they don't have good subs and mostly its because they are running their subs flat.
What these Devastators can do is quiet scary. Running them with above curve can really catch your attention
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Ah got it. Totally makes sense. Before I read your post, I was curios so I used SPL meter and ran 100Hz and 50Hz and 30Hz and found that even though I had a 10dB curve, there was a 5dB difference b/w 100Hz and 50Hz (50 being ~5dB lower) and 30Hz was like 8dB Lowere. Wowwwwww. My House curve had 100Hz at 4dB hot and 50 at 6dB hot and 30 at 9dB. To make 50dB produce same spl as 100Hz, I had to bring 50Hz to 11dB and 30Hz to 16dB . Tried it out and wasn't too crazy about how it sounded.
Round 2: Changed to following
30Hz = 13dB
50Hz = 11dB
100Hz = 4
Muchhhh better. I mean really good. each gun shot was shaking my shirt a bit . Then I finally changed it to the following
22.5495 = 13
30.6893 = 13
49.5316 = 8.4592
80 = 4
100 = 3.64454
138.907 = 0.999999

Watching with above House Curve is a loottt of fun. Bring BOSS in the mix and it gets AMMAAZING. I know @cdy2179 mentioned many times in his last video of chest slam that its the house curve that does the job mainly. While I do agree with the statement, I still think that the kind of subs used also make a difference. I my case, I used to use Mini Marty with UXL18 driver and they were awesome when it came to pressurize the room but they didn't hit the bass as sharp. Don't get me wrong, they are very very good subs but it was lacking a bit of that super sharp bass hitting in the chest. There is lots of that in Tron movie. Compare that with Devastator Sub. Devastator Sub can hit very sharp bass right in the chest but lacks that low bass that Mini Marty offers. But, these Devastators also bring weird feelings which I think is due to particle velocity. They also sound very brutal. I mean really really mean with very clean and sharp bass. Finally running them 13dB hot with 30Hz doesn't really make me think that they are missing much in low bass area. But no matter what I did with Mini Marty, they couldn't produce as sharp bass as these Devastators do. I mean I had even tried 16dB and they would make my hair jump but the would still lack the punchyness. Not with Devastators though

In the same room these two subs performed differently applying same EQ. Clearly each sub has its strength. I do agree with him with the point that most think they don't have good subs and mostly its because they are running their subs flat.
What these Devastators can do is quiet scary. Running them with above curve can really catch your attention
Yes subs do have different characteristics. However if you demo two setups in the same room, both aligned properly with no dips and nulls and they both have the exact same well done house curve and measure the same with both having ample headroom, the experience will be very similar and both have slamming kick.

The chest slam video is just "how to get it" and "where it's at", not really a comparison of different subs. Keep in mind the channel is aimed at those wanting to learn and just get their setup right, free of the sea of confusion we all see in the hobby.

The devastators have insane output as the frequencies climb, in the lower frequencies 20hz and down they aren't so superhuman but mortal. We will be modeling subs and building some in future episodes as it's been a passion of mine for 20 years. But back to the Devastators. They will have incredibly clean output 25hz ish and above because they have so much headroom and will perform much better than another setup that does't have that headroom and has more distortion. It's just insanely clean output and the driver is barely working where you're marty subs would have to work their tails off to try and keep up.
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post #118 of 170 Old 11-22-2019, 11:54 AM
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Yes subs do have different characteristics. However if you demo two setups in the same room, both aligned properly with no dips and nulls and they both have the exact same well done house curve and measure the same with both having ample headroom, the experience will be very similar and both have slamming kick.

The chest slam video is just "how to get it" and "where it's at", not really a comparison of different subs. Keep in mind the channel is aimed at those wanting to learn and just get their setup right, free of the sea of confusion we all see in the hobby.

The devastators have insane output as the frequencies climb, in the lower frequencies 20hz and down they aren't so superhuman but mortal. We will be modeling subs and building some in future episodes as it's been a passion of mine for 20 years. But back to the Devastators. They will have incredibly clean output 25hz ish and above because they have so much headroom and will perform much better than another setup that does't have that headroom and has more distortion. It's just insanely clean output and the driver is barely working where you're marty subs would have to work their tails off to try and keep up.
I have said it before and I'll happily repeat myself here. Love your channel. Very informative indeed and free of any confusion. Keep it up. I hope I didn't come across as someone objecting/complaining. I do think you are doing a great job there and I hope that many watch your channel and reach out to you for professional help

Now to your point of how subs can sound same considering they are in same room and have same calibration and head room and basically all parameters same.... will sound very similar. I used to believe in the same but as I mentioned in my previous post, I set Mini Marty and Devastators exactly the same, in the same room at same place. Everything exactly same and yet there is this very very clean bass produced by these Devastators. That's why it seems to me that having different subs can have different impact on chest slam. You did make a very valid/strong point that Devastators have a lottt of headroom and they really don't have to do much in terms of efforts and therefore the bass production is very clean and hence more chest Slam. I guess that's it. You nailed it. That's most likely what's happening. Just for comparison purposes, when I ran my Mini Marty, I had the gain dials on INuke6000 @ 3 p.m. position and then I had minidsp 2x4 input set @0. This gave me enough bass to calibrate for Dirac calibration. Now here comes Devastators. With Devs, I have iNuke6000 @ 1 p.m. (4 ticks less) and minidsp 2x4 is at -6 instead of 0 (6 dB less). There you go. Lottsssss of lotsss of headroom. One reason for the difference is because of Drivers. 18" MiniMarty VS 21" Lavoce. Rest is the sub box design.

One last point about Devs. Its not just the clean bass, it has much higher particle velocity as well which brings weird feelings watching movies/listening to music. Each drum kick is something to experience with them Its very brutal when watching movies and at the same time very sweet listening to music.

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I have said it before and I'll happily repeat myself here. Love your channel. Very informative indeed and free of any confusion. Keep it up. I hope I didn't come across as someone objecting/complaining. I do think you are doing a great job there and I hope that many watch your channel and reach out to you for professional help

Now to your point of how subs can sound same considering they are in same room and have same calibration and head room and basically all parameters same.... will sound very similar. I used to believe in the same but as I mentioned in my previous post, I set Mini Marty and Devastators exactly the same, in the same room at same place. Everything exactly same and yet there is this very very clean bass produced by these Devastators. That's why it seems to me that having different subs can have different impact on chest slam. You did make a very valid/strong point that Devastators have a lottt of headroom and they really don't have to do much in terms of efforts and therefore the bass production is very clean and hence more chest Slam. I guess that's it. You nailed it. That's most likely what's happening. Just for comparison purposes, when I ran my Mini Marty, I had the gain dials on INuke6000 @ 3 p.m. position and then I had minidsp 2x4 input set @0. This gave me enough bass to calibrate for Dirac calibration. Now here comes Devastators. With Devs, I have iNuke6000 @ 1 p.m. (4 ticks less) and minidsp 2x4 is at -6 instead of 0 (6 dB less). There you go. Lottsssss of lotsss of headroom. One reason for the difference is because of Drivers. 18" MiniMarty VS 21" Lavoce. Rest is the sub box design.

One last point about Devs. Its not just the clean bass, it has much higher particle velocity as well which brings weird feelings watching movies/listening to music. Each drum kick is something to experience with them Its very brutal when watching movies and at the same time very sweet listening to music.
Thanks.

And I didn't mean the same but similar. It sounds like you're describing the natural response of the two. Just placing them in the same spots isn't enough as of course they will sound nothing alike. You have to eq the responses to be exactly the same to compare. The shape of the response is basically shaping how it will sound. The devastator has lot's more output in the kick drum region before eq... far far more. So until eq is applied to shape the sound kick drums will be just insane but the lower stuff needs to be brought up. You'll see this when we start modeling drivers and comparing the responses in different enclosures. I usually design ported subs to have a natural house curve that peaks around 30hz but It's easy to also make it naturally flat the entire response. Compare to a high sensitivity driver may peak at 40hz then slowly fall if we use a small box with a purposely low tune to shape the response such that we can boost the drop off. You see similar tricks being used with JTR tuning a box to 10hz even though the sub is down quite a bit at 10hz and is similar to what the dev does as well but both need eq to fix the response with JTR having it baked in.

That said the Dev will produce exceptional clean destructive bass.

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Thanks.

And I didn't mean the same but similar. It sounds like you're describing the natural response of the two. Just placing them in the same spots isn't enough as of course they will sound nothing alike. You have to eq the responses to be exactly the same to compare. The shape of the response is basically shaping how it will sound. The devastator has lot's more output in the kick drum region before eq... far far more. So until eq is applied to shape the sound kick drums will be just insane but the lower stuff needs to be brought up. You'll see this when we start modeling drivers and comparing the responses in different enclosures. I usually design ported subs to have a natural house curve that peaks around 30hz but It's easy to also make it naturally flat the entire response. Compare to a high sensitivity driver may peak at 40hz then slowly fall if we use a small box with a purposely low tune to shape the response such that we can boost the drop off. You see similar tricks being used with JTR tuning a box to 10hz even though the sub is down quite a bit at 10hz and is similar to what the dev does as well but both need eq to fix the response with JTR having it baked in.

That said the Dev will produce exceptional clean destructive bass.
I use Dirac for room correction. It has very easy way to define the custom curve. Basically, you define different values at at different levels. Here is an example
22.5495 13
30.6893 13
49.5316 8.4592
80 4
100 3.64454
138.907 0.999999
199.384 0.244251
449 0.129574

First column is frequency and 2nd value is how much dB boost. Above example is a 13dB slope. This is how it'd end up looking


and here is the FR after Dirac calibration



You can see that once you have a custom curve, its just a matter of uploading that curve in Dirac and it will shape up the FR accordingly. I had the same curve that I used in Mini that I used in Dev. So exactly the same EQ applied and still Devs won in chest slam hands down. As you pointed out, its because of how much head room it has that makes it produce very clean bass

Quote:
You'll see this when we start modeling drivers and comparing the responses in different enclosures
Does this mean that you'll be having some videos on how to design a box like in Win ISD?
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