REW subwoofer alignment Video using MiniDSP complete walk through! - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 134 Old 11-22-2019, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Does this mean that you'll be having some videos on how to design a box like in Win ISD?
Sure does! We will design a ported sub in winisd , build it, I'll give you guys some vinyl veneer choices, no duratex, something easy yet living room friendly , then test it by running compression test, comparing to subs on data bass to see how it performs, then try and blow it up. Of course subscribers will have cut sheets to build it. Lots of fun!

Fwiw I've designed subs using the um12 for guys with Marty subs and the comments I usually get are if they knew it would perform this well they'd never have gotten those huge Marty subs for living room subs. If you tune them right they are brutal.

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post #122 of 134 Old 11-23-2019, 10:03 AM
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Sure does! We will design a ported sub in winisd , build it, I'll give you guys some vinyl veneer choices, no duratex, something easy yet living room friendly , then test it by running compression test, comparing to subs on data bass to see how it performs, then try and blow it up. Of course subscribers will have cut sheets to build it. Lots of fun!

Fwiw I've designed subs using the um12 for guys with Marty subs and the comments I usually get are if they knew it would perform this well they'd never have gotten those huge Marty subs for living room subs. If you tune them right they are brutal.
Aweeessoomeeee. Can't wait to see the videos.

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Of course subscribers will have cut sheets to build it.
What are we subscribing to?
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post #123 of 134 Old 11-23-2019, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Aweeessoomeeee. Can't wait to see the videos.


What are we subscribing to?
Subscribers to the YouTube channel. I'll be doing all of this through the Home Theater Gurus channel.
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post #124 of 134 Old 11-23-2019, 01:03 PM
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Subscribers to the YouTube channel. I'll be doing all of this through the Home Theater Gurus channel.
haha. Too late. Subscribed the first time I saw your video .
Here is an interesting question: I use JBL 4722N speakers as L/C/R. They are awesome and put amazing sound stage. Issue is that they are HUGE. Each is 30" wide and 18" deep and are placed in 12' room. so out of 12', 90" (7.5') is gone. After leaving some space on each side of side walls, there is like 14" of space b/w Center and Left and Center and Right.
If I decide to put a sub of 24" on the front, I end up having everything like touching each other.

Question: What difference do you see b/w 4722n https://www.jblpro.com/www/products/...n#.XdmOcVdKj18 VS HTM12?
HTM12 are 18" wide and 10" deep which gives me 90" of free space in width and plenty to move them back/forth. I could even corner load 2 subs and still places these any where I want. But would like to know what would I loose switching to HTM12". Please note that 4722N have 2 15" drivers but I crossover my subs at 100Hz so really don't know what I'm getting out of them
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post #125 of 134 Old 11-24-2019, 06:29 AM
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great videos thank you!
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post #126 of 134 Old 11-26-2019, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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haha. Too late. Subscribed the first time I saw your video .
Here is an interesting question: I use JBL 4722N speakers as L/C/R. They are awesome and put amazing sound stage. Issue is that they are HUGE. Each is 30" wide and 18" deep and are placed in 12' room. so out of 12', 90" (7.5') is gone. After leaving some space on each side of side walls, there is like 14" of space b/w Center and Left and Center and Right.
If I decide to put a sub of 24" on the front, I end up having everything like touching each other.

Question: What difference do you see b/w 4722n https://www.jblpro.com/www/products/...n#.XdmOcVdKj18 VS HTM12?
HTM12 are 18" wide and 10" deep which gives me 90" of free space in width and plenty to move them back/forth. I could even corner load 2 subs and still places these any where I want. But would like to know what would I loose switching to HTM12". Please note that 4722N have 2 15" drivers but I crossover my subs at 100Hz so really don't know what I'm getting out of them
I've actually owned the JBL 3677 twice and the QSC 2150 which is similar to the 4722. I used to be caught up in all that big speakers equal huge sound mess which is as false as it gets. Whats the difference between the 4722 and HTM12 you ask. One is designed for a huge cinema and the other for a home theater. I just did the episode on midbass slam so If you haven't watched it yet it may be eye opening.

The HTM 12 IMO is a better speaker than the cinema speakers I've owned with better off axis, especially better vertical off axis. And they're easier to place and placement is key to getting a great sound. I have a friend who went to a GTG where they were demoing big heavy hitters like the 1099 and JTR towers. During blind test he hooked up a tiny little JBL 305 and the guys didn't know it was gonna be demoed. They scored it higher than the big boys including the stuff they'd brought. Big sound has nothing to do with size but with the off axis and imaging. Now if you need output to reach a certain level high sensitivity can be needed which of course the HTM 12 has.
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post #127 of 134 Old 11-26-2019, 09:53 AM
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During blind test he hooked up a tiny little JBL 305 and the guys didn't know it was gonna be demoed. They scored it higher than the big boys including the stuff they'd brought.
lol that is hilarious. I have Cobalt 8s in my room for LCR. I could not imagine ever wanting anything louder. Ref volume is waaayyyy to much.
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post #128 of 134 Old 11-27-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post
I've actually owned the JBL 3677 twice and the QSC 2150 which is similar to the 4722. I used to be caught up in all that big speakers equal huge sound mess which is as false as it gets. Whats the difference between the 4722 and HTM12 you ask. One is designed for a huge cinema and the other for a home theater. I just did the episode on midbass slam so If you haven't watched it yet it may be eye opening.

The HTM 12 IMO is a better speaker than the cinema speakers I've owned with better off axis, especially better vertical off axis. And they're easier to place and placement is key to getting a great sound. I have a friend who went to a GTG where they were demoing big heavy hitters like the 1099 and JTR towers. During blind test he hooked up a tiny little JBL 305 and the guys didn't know it was gonna be demoed. They scored it higher than the big boys including the stuff they'd brought. Big sound has nothing to do with size but with the off axis and imaging. Now if you need output to reach a certain level high sensitivity can be needed which of course the HTM 12 has.
In terms of sound quality, 4722N are great. They put a Huge sound stage around me. If room is treated well, they can be very very good. I have my room treated (by myself) and went through the iterations with acoustic treatments based on how I like the sound. So all in all, they are great. My only issue with them is size. I can fit them fine but now i want to build two more Devastators and place them on the front and they get in the way. If someone has space to put them in front and leave them as is, they are good to go.

I don't know if HTM12 is better than 4722N but size wise, they def have advantage. What are you using for atmos with htm12 being your mains.
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post #129 of 134 Old 11-27-2019, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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In terms of sound quality, 4722N are great. They put a Huge sound stage around me. If room is treated well, they can be very very good. I have my room treated (by myself) and went through the iterations with acoustic treatments based on how I like the sound. So all in all, they are great. My only issue with them is size. I can fit them fine but now i want to build two more Devastators and place them on the front and they get in the way. If someone has space to put them in front and leave them as is, they are good to go.

I don't know if HTM12 is better than 4722N but size wise, they def have advantage. What are you using for atmos with htm12 being your mains.

I cover what I use in ep 5 and 6. Unfortunately I went with the Volt 10 and cover it's issues in ep 5. There are much better options. Like I've said I unfortunately learn the hard way.
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post #130 of 134 Old 11-27-2019, 09:40 AM
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Like I've said I unfortunately learn the hard way.
Don't we all.
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post #131 of 134 Old 12-02-2019, 06:31 PM
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Incredible thread and videos! I've learned more in the past 2 days of your videos than the past few years.

Hope I'm not too late to the game to solicit a little advise on how to go about the sub alignment in my system. I have a new AVR on the way along with MiniDSP. Already have a UMIK and familiar with REW.

My "theater" room is really a living room. Its 20X13 and open to adjacent rooms on 2 sides, to the tune of 10X10 and 8X10 openings, so in total it's large odd-shaped volume, and Ill be expecting my response to be all over the place. My question has more to do with the approach since my sub configuration is a little unique.

There are a total of 3 "unique" subs, but 2 of them exist as powered tower front speakers, and as such, their location is fixed. The third sub is mobile (to an extent; wifely and living-room type restrictions apply). The subs that exist in the powered towers will be further from the main listening area than the 3rd sub. Since those two are further, I'm thinking those should be the first to be aligned, followed by the 3rd. But here's where a little extra guidance is needed. Normally you would position ALL of subs for best response before all alignment activities (right?). In my case, where the position of 2 subs is pre-determined and fixed, does it make more sense to align those two as best as possible where they're at, and THEN position the 3rd sub to compensate for any nulls? And then follow with alignment of the 3rd sub to the powered-tower pair?

Thanks in advance!!
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post #132 of 134 Old 12-03-2019, 09:06 AM
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Incredible thread and videos! I've learned more in the past 2 days of your videos than the past few years.

Hope I'm not too late to the game to solicit a little advise on how to go about the sub alignment in my system. I have a new AVR on the way along with MiniDSP. Already have a UMIK and familiar with REW.

My "theater" room is really a living room. Its 20X13 and open to adjacent rooms on 2 sides, to the tune of 10X10 and 8X10 openings, so in total it's large odd-shaped volume, and Ill be expecting my response to be all over the place. My question has more to do with the approach since my sub configuration is a little unique.

There are a total of 3 "unique" subs, but 2 of them exist as powered tower front speakers, and as such, their location is fixed. The third sub is mobile (to an extent; wifely and living-room type restrictions apply). The subs that exist in the powered towers will be further from the main listening area than the 3rd sub. Since those two are further, I'm thinking those should be the first to be aligned, followed by the 3rd. But here's where a little extra guidance is needed. Normally you would position ALL of subs for best response before all alignment activities (right?). In my case, where the position of 2 subs is pre-determined and fixed, does it make more sense to align those two as best as possible where they're at, and THEN position the 3rd sub to compensate for any nulls? And then follow with alignment of the 3rd sub to the powered-tower pair?

Thanks in advance!!
What is the make/model of your tower speakers? What is the make/model of your dedicated sub?

Typically with towers that have built in "subwoofers", it is recommended to not use the LFE input and configure them as you would any other satellite speaker (Small with an appropriate crossover). There are two reasons for this; the first, which you already alluded to, is because the location of the FL/FR speakers is dictated by best imaging/soundstage and those locations rarely (if ever) coincide with optimal placement for bass sources. The second reason is because most built in subwoofers are not subwoofers at all, with under-powered amplifiers and a -3dB point around 30hz or even higher.
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post #133 of 134 Old 12-03-2019, 10:46 AM
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What is the make/model of your tower speakers? What is the make/model of your dedicated sub?

Typically with towers that have built in "subwoofers", it is recommended to not use the LFE input and configure them as you would any other satellite speaker (Small with an appropriate crossover). There are two reasons for this; the first, which you already alluded to, is because the location of the FL/FR speakers is dictated by best imaging/soundstage and those locations rarely (if ever) coincide with optimal placement for bass sources. The second reason is because most built in subwoofers are not subwoofers at all, with under-powered amplifiers and a -3dB point around 30hz or even higher.
Towers are modified Klipsch KSP-400's; each with a 15" sub (sealed). They're rated -3dB @ 27 Hz, but I get measured in-room response well into the mid-low 20s with them. The internal amps failed years ago (multiple times) and I removed them. Now the sub in each tower is now fed by a Crown XL1002 (350W ea.) which receives signal from one channel of a Behringer DSP1124P. The other channel of the Behringer goes to an Elemental Designs A7-350 (15" ported, 1000W)
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post #134 of 134 Old Yesterday, 05:45 PM
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@cdy2179 , where is the 3rd part on Acoustic treatment? Been waiting since you released part 2 . Specially want to see how you recommend placing diffusers along with absorbers for side/ceiling. Also looking forward to see how RT60 is used in REW to determine room liveliness.
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