FV25 vs V3611 vs JTR CAP2400 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 53 Old 10-13-2019, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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On the fence on these 3. My room is a sealed 3200 cubic space. I am looking to run one subwoofer and not duals. 100% HT use. I am sure all 3 would be great but trying to narrow this down.
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post #2 of 53 Old 10-13-2019, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
On the fence on these 3. My room is a sealed 3200 cubic space. I am looking to run one subwoofer and not duals. 100% HT use. I am sure all 3 would be great but trying to narrow this down.
As you said, all 3 are great subs. My personal preference is towards the lower port tuning offered in 2400/2400ULF and FV25HP over the higher tuned V3611.

If I had to pick one to do it all, I'd probably lean towards the Rythmik FV25HP, purely because it can hang with the JTR's down low (except 10hz) and has a bit more output above 40Hz


I would also at least consider going for a pair of FV15HP's over a single FV25HP for a better frequency response at multiple seats

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post #3 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
On the fence on these 3. My room is a sealed 3200 cubic space. I am looking to run one subwoofer and not duals. 100% HT use. I am sure all 3 would be great but trying to narrow this down.

Hi,

I think that Jamie gave you good advice on going with the lower-tuned options. I believe you will be grateful that you did that. For instance, the V1811 only has about a 20Hz port tune, and it doesn't dig nearly as deep as the Cap 2400, or the FV25HP. To make it a fair comparison though, you should be considering PSA's new lower-tuned models, as well, instead of just the V3611.

The TV3612 (edited per Chucky's observation in the post just below) has a new Neodymium driver and about a 14Hz port tune. The TV36 iPal has an even better driver and the same ~14Hz port tune. Those subwoofers would give you all of the strong mid-bass that PSA subwoofers are known for, along with almost as much low-bass as the Cap 2400. (As Jamie said, the Cap 2400 pulls ahead of the other ported subs below about 11 or 12Hz.) The new PSA subs are somewhat larger and more expensive than the other models you are considering, but they have very strong SPL and good extension, combined with low distortion.

I don't want to promote one subwoofer brand over another. In my opinion, any of the lower-tuned subwoofers that I have discussed would be excellent for your situation. But, if you are really trying to narrow things down, I would personally lean toward either the Cap 2400 (or the Cap 2400ULF) for maximum low-frequency SPL and TR (tactile response); or I would lean toward the two new Neo (Neodymium) subs, from PSA, for a combination of more mid-bass and very good low-frequency extension.

It may help to read a bit on the various owner's threads, for the three brands, in order to form your own conclusions. I think that many people start to naturally group themselves somewhat, according to their personal priorities, if you really look for that.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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Last edited by mthomas47; 10-14-2019 at 09:41 AM.
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post #4 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think that Jamie gave you good advice on going with the lower-tuned options. I believe you will be grateful that you did that. For instance, the V1811 only has about a 20Hz port tune, and it doesn't dig nearly as deep as the Cap 2400, or the FV25HP. To make it a fair comparison though, you should be considering PSA's new lower-tuned models, as well, instead of just the V3611.

The V3612 has a new Neodymium driver and about a 14Hz port tune. The TV36 iPal has an even better driver and the same ~14Hz port tune. Those subwoofers would give you all of the strong mid-bass that PSA subwoofers are known for, along with almost as much low-bass as the Cap 2400. (As Jamie said, the Cap 2400 pulls ahead of the other ported subs below about 11 or 12Hz.) The new PSA subs are somewhat larger and more expensive than the other models you are considering, but they have very strong SPL and good extension, combined with low distortion.

I don't want to promote one subwoofer brand over another. In my opinion, any of the lower-tuned subwoofers that I have discussed would be excellent for your situation. But, if you are really trying to narrow things down, I would personally lean toward either the Cap 2400 (or the Cap 2400ULF) for maximum low-frequency SPL and TR (tactile response); or I would lean toward the two new Neo (Neodymium) subs, from PSA, for a combination of more mid-bass and very good low-frequency extension.

It may help to read a bit on the various owner's threads, for the three brands, in order to form your own conclusions. I think that many people start to naturally group themselves somewhat, according to their personal priorities, if you really look for that.

Regards,
Mike
I think you meant TV3612, right? The TV3612 is tuned to 14Hz while the V3612 is still tuned to low 20's Hz.
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post #5 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
On the fence on these 3. My room is a sealed 3200 cubic space. I am looking to run one subwoofer and not duals. 100% HT use. I am sure all 3 would be great but trying to narrow this down.
If budget and size is not a constraint, also look at the FV28 and Cap 4000

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post #6 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
If budget and size is not a constraint, also look at the FV28 and Cap 4000
If we are going crazy with his money , may as well throw the PSA TV42 in there as well lol.....Id imagine the CAP4K will probably dig the deepest , but who knows what craziness Tom has thrown in that 42!!...That FV28 is also hard to ignore as well! Its a good time to be in the subwoofer game!
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post #7 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
If budget and size is not a constraint, also look at the FV28 and Cap 4000
If we are going crazy with his money , may as well throw the PSA TV42 in there as well lol.....Id imagine the CAP4K will probably dig the deepest , but who knows what craziness Tom has thrown in that 42!!...That FV28 is also hard to ignore as well! Its a good time to be in the subwoofer game!
When is the FV28 going to be available?
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post #8 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 09:29 AM
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When is the FV28 going to be available?
The prototype is already out. I would reach out to @Rythmik or @enricoclaudio to confirm firm date
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post #9 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
When is the FV28 going to be available?
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
The prototype is already out. I would reach out to @Rythmik or @enricoclaudio to confirm firm date
The FV28 would be out by the end of 1Q 2020. Brian is still fine tuning it. After a few tweaks and measurements taken this past weekend, port tune is 11Hz with 4 ports open, not 12Hz like I mentioned before.
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post #10 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
On the fence on these 3. My room is a sealed 3200 cubic space. I am looking to run one subwoofer and not duals. 100% HT use. I am sure all 3 would be great but trying to narrow this down.
Everybody has already suggested the big boys on the block. All of them are top of the line end game subs. As you say you want to narrow this down, you might want to post some characteristics you are looking for and or any constraints.

Budget? Size? Aesthetics? TR? Listening volume? How hot on the sub? Sound signature preference? Lowest extension? Mid-bass?

You get the picture.

Todd

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post #11 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
On the fence on these 3. My room is a sealed 3200 cubic space. I am looking to run one subwoofer and not duals. 100% HT use. I am sure all 3 would be great but trying to narrow this down.
Everybody has already suggested the big boys on the block. All of them are top of the line end game subs. As you say you want to narrow this down, you might want to post some characteristics you are looking for and or any constraints.

Budget? Size? Aesthetics? TR? Listening volume? How hot on the sub? Sound signature preference? Lowest extension? Mid-bass?

You get the picture.

Todd
Budget is $2500ish. The TV36IPAL is out of my budget. Size constraints are one sub, my room is 18x22x8. I can go with a dual sized sub like the FV25 but will need to lay it on its side. I listen at normal and higher than normal levels, all movies and sports. Very rarely to music in my HT room.
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post #12 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Budget is $2500ish. The TV36IPAL is out of my budget. Size constraints are one sub, my room is 18x22x8. I can go with a dual sized sub like the FV25 but will need to lay it on its side. I listen at normal and higher than normal levels, all movies and sports. Very rarely to music in my HT room.
With that budget you are back to FV25HP or Cap 2400 ULF. Both excellent.

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post #13 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Budget is $2500ish. The TV36IPAL is out of my budget. Size constraints are one sub, my room is 18x22x8. I can go with a dual sized sub like the FV25 but will need to lay it on its side. I listen at normal and higher than normal levels, all movies and sports. Very rarely to music in my HT room.
There is also the TV36 Neo for that price right now....From what I understand you get 95% of the performance from the IPal...The IPal is for people that want every single bit of performance out of a sub...I was thinking of going to the TV36 and Neo is the way I wouldve went...
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post #14 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 03:36 PM
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There is also the TV36 Neo for that price right now....From what I understand you get 95% of the performance from the IPal...The IPal is for people that want every single bit of performance out of a sub...I was thinking of going to the TV36 and Neo is the way I wouldve went...

Correct. The TV3612 (formally the TV36neo) is listed at $2599.
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post #15 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 03:48 PM
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Correct. The TV3612 (formally the TV36neo) is listed at $2599.
All these damn numbers lol....Id have to imagine that the 3612 would give the FV25 a good run for its money , but the 2400ULF would probably still dig deeper.... After having sealed for a bit now and having plenty of extension into probably into single digits , I think I would forego ULF in exchange for midbass...Mid teens in the HZ column is probably low enough for 98% of the content out there , but I kind of miss that kick in the chest I used to get from gunshots with ported...
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post #16 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 04:58 PM
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FV25 vs V3611 vs JTR CAP2400

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Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
All these damn numbers lol....Id have to imagine that the 3612 would give the FV25 a good run for its money , but the 2400ULF would probably still dig deeper.... After having sealed for a bit now and having plenty of extension into probably into single digits , I think I would forego ULF in exchange for midbass...Mid teens in the HZ column is probably low enough for 98% of the content out there , but I kind of miss that kick in the chest I used to get from gunshots with ported...


I guess we will never know how these subs compare to the FV25HP and the cap 2400


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post #17 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 05:23 PM
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All these damn numbers lol....Id have to imagine that the 3612 would give the FV25 a good run for its money , but the 2400ULF would probably still dig deeper.... After having sealed for a bit now and having plenty of extension into probably into single digits , I think I would forego ULF in exchange for midbass...Mid teens in the HZ column is probably low enough for 98% of the content out there , but I kind of miss that kick in the chest I used to get from gunshots with ported...
Your 3 x S3601's should have tonnes of headroom in the midbass/chest slam region. Certainly more than the V1801s and probably right up there with the TV3612 above 40hz

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post #18 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Budget is $2500ish. The TV36IPAL is out of my budget. Size constraints are one sub, my room is 18x22x8. I can go with a dual sized sub like the FV25 but will need to lay it on its side. I listen at normal and higher than normal levels, all movies and sports. Very rarely to music in my HT room.
Bear in mind though, JTR Cap 2400's price does not include shipping, which is $180 to SoCal.

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post #19 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 06:44 PM
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All these damn numbers lol....Id have to imagine that the 3612 would give the FV25 a good run for its money , but the 2400ULF would probably still dig deeper.... After having sealed for a bit now and having plenty of extension into probably into single digits , I think I would forego ULF in exchange for midbass...Mid teens in the HZ column is probably low enough for 98% of the content out there , but I kind of miss that kick in the chest I used to get from gunshots with ported...
Sounds like someone might need to consider a couple of TV36 ipals.......the heart wants what the heart wants. And I'm sure Tom would be more than willing to take those s3601s off your hands for a sweet trade.

Todd
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post #20 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Budget is $2500ish. The TV36IPAL is out of my budget. Size constraints are one sub, my room is 18x22x8. I can go with a dual sized sub like the FV25 but will need to lay it on its side. I listen at normal and higher than normal levels, all movies and sports. Very rarely to music in my HT room.
Since you didn't state a sound signature you're after or mention anything about extension or midbass......I'll try to sum it up like this which is purely my opinion.

FV25 - clean and fast
2400 - deep and violent
TV36 - to be fair, I have not heard this sub but I suspect it might fall somewhere in between and I couldn't think of 2 snazzy words, I'm sure @Dave Ol can give us 2 words though

2 words don't really sum up how good these subs are, but to be honest, I'm lazy and l didn't feel like writing a lot.

Like mthomas47 said, it would be best for you to read some of the brand threads, the sub comparison thread and maybe PM some owners. The absolute best way, short of having each in your room, is to reach out to owners local to you and see if you can listen to theirs. That will give a good idea of each brands sound signature.

Todd

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Last edited by toddct; 10-14-2019 at 07:56 PM.
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post #21 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Budget is $2500ish. The TV36IPAL is out of my budget. Size constraints are one sub, my room is 18x22x8. I can go with a dual sized sub like the FV25 but will need to lay it on its side. I listen at normal and higher than normal levels, all movies and sports. Very rarely to music in my HT room.
Since you didn't state a sound signature you're after or mention anything about extension or midbass......I'll try to sum it up like this which is purely my opinion.

FV25 - clean and fast
2400 - deep and violent
TV36 - to be fair, I have not heard this sub but I suspect it might fall somewhere in between and I couldn't think of 2 snazzy words, I'm sure @Dave Ol can give us 2 words though

2 words don't really sum up how good these subs will be, but to be honest, I'm lazy and l didn't feel like writing a lot.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Like mthomas47 said, it would be best for you to read some of the brand threads, the sub comparison thread and maybe PM some owners. The absolute best way, short of having each in your room, is to reach out to owners local to you and see if you can listen to theirs. That will give a good idea of each brands sound signature.

Todd
Thanks all! It is a lot to take in. It is between the JTR 2400 (not sure if the standard or ULF would be better for movies) and the FV25. The PSA stuff I am interested in is a month out from production and I already delayed my setup more than I want. Would love to have a FV28, 36 IPAL, etc but cannot wait. I find it interesting that the 18" JTR will keep up with the dual 15" subs in the FV25. In all honesty, this is my first HT setup in 20 years. Fronts are PSA MTM-210Ts, 210C, 110SR and 4 RSL in ceiling atmos speakers. Just need a great single sub to round this out.
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post #22 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 07:24 PM
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JTR 2400 (not sure if the standard or ULF would be better for movies)
I find it interesting that the 18" JTR will keep up with the dual 15" subs in the FV25.
Either the 2400 or 2400ulf will be great for movies. The non-ulf is just in a smaller cabinet......go figure. They are both tuned to 10hz. You can look up the specs on databass.com as well as the FV25. JTR is also having a fall sale knocking off a couple hundred dollars until Nov 1st. The FV25 is also priced extremely well.

Jeff P squeezes a ton of performance out of his designs. He uses high excursion drivers and a bunch of power.

I have the 2400ulf but make no mistaken, the FV25 is a stellar sub!

You are basically making a choice between awesome.......and awesome!

Todd

“People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh
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post #23 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Thanks all! It is a lot to take in. It is between the JTR 2400 (not sure if the standard or ULF would be better for movies) and the FV25. The PSA stuff I am interested in is a month out from production and I already delayed my setup more than I want. Would love to have a FV28, 36 IPAL, etc but cannot wait. I find it interesting that the 18" JTR will keep up with the dual 15" subs in the FV25. In all honesty, this is my first HT setup in 20 years. Fronts are PSA MTM-210Ts, 210C, 110SR and 4 RSL in ceiling atmos speakers. Just need a great single sub to round this out.

It's up to you of course, and both subs you're considering are excellent, but if the PSA TV36Neo is of interest I wouldn't let a month get in the way. If the JTR isn't in stock and needs to be built it might take some time before you get it anyway. I think the TV36 Neo is probably the baddest thing in the $2500 price range at the moment and where I'd be leaning if I were in the market and could handle the size.


When I got my current subs built, there were delays in production and it took a couple of months longer than expected. It sucked at the time, but they've been putting a smile on my face for over 7 years now. Its like the delay never happened. A month in the scheme of things, in this case how long good audio gear lasts, is nothing.


But as I said, the JTR and Rythmik are both excellent so it's not like you're making a mistake with either.
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post #24 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Thanks all! It is a lot to take in. It is between the JTR 2400 (not sure if the standard or ULF would be better for movies) and the FV25. The PSA stuff I am interested in is a month out from production and I already delayed my setup more than I want. Would love to have a FV28, 36 IPAL, etc but cannot wait. I find it interesting that the 18" JTR will keep up with the dual 15" subs in the FV25. In all honesty, this is my first HT setup in 20 years. Fronts are PSA MTM-210Ts, 210C, 110SR and 4 RSL in ceiling atmos speakers. Just need a great single sub to round this out.

It's up to you of course, and both subs you're considering are excellent, but if the PSA TV36Neo is of interest I wouldn't let a month get in the way. If the JTR isn't in stock and needs to be built it might take some time before you get it anyway. I think the TV36 Neo is probably the baddest thing in the $2500 price range at the moment and where I'd be leaning if I were in the market and could handle the size.


When I got my current subs built, there were delays in production and it took a couple of months longer than expected. It sucked at the time, but they've been putting a smile on my face for over 7 years now. Its like the delay never happened. A month in the scheme of things, in this case how long good audio gear lasts, is nothing.


But as I said, the JTR and Rythmik are both excellent so it's not like you're making a mistake with either.
I agree, but ready to get this done. The 2400ULF and FV25 are both in stock so could get either one.
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post #25 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 08:11 PM
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Since you didn't state a sound signature you're after or mention anything about extension or midbass......I'll try to sum it up like this which is purely my opinion.

FV25 - clean and fast
2400 - deep and violent
TV36 - to be fair, I have not heard this sub but I suspect it might fall somewhere in between and I couldn't think of 2 snazzy words, I'm sure @Dave Ol can give us 2 words though

2 words don't really sum up how good these subs are, but to be honest, I'm lazy and l didn't feel like writing a lot.

Like mthomas47 said, it would be best for you to read some of the brand threads, the sub comparison thread and maybe PM some owners. The absolute best way, short of having each in your room, is to reach out to owners local to you and see if you can listen to theirs. That will give a good idea of each brands sound signature.

Todd

How about 4 words for the TV36 - great ULF, awesome mid-bass.

First off, you can't go wrong with any of the subs being discussed. They are all great. That being said, I think I am the only one so far to go from a JTR 2400 (not ULF) to a TV36 ipal. For my setup, I only have room for one sub in my room. The 2400 was great and I was happy with it, but I felt I might be missing some mid bass slam as its forte is ULF ("deep and violent" as Todd stated). Note that I am on concrete in an open floor plan. The TR and chest slam that I get with the TV36 is just amazing. The ULF isn't bad either.

But as I said in the beginning, you can't go wrong with any of the subs listed. Good luck with your decision.

NOTE - did you check with Tom on TV36 availability? I didn't think there was a waiting period for them, but I could be mistaken.
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post #26 of 53 Old 10-14-2019, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Since you didn't state a sound signature you're after or mention anything about extension or midbass......I'll try to sum it up like this which is purely my opinion.

FV25 - clean and fast
2400 - deep and violent
TV36 - to be fair, I have not heard this sub but I suspect it might fall somewhere in between and I couldn't think of 2 snazzy words, I'm sure @Dave Ol can give us 2 words though

2 words don't really sum up how good these subs are, but to be honest, I'm lazy and l didn't feel like writing a lot.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Like mthomas47 said, it would be best for you to read some of the brand threads, the sub comparison thread and maybe PM some owners. The absolute best way, short of having each in your room, is to reach out to owners local to you and see if you can listen to theirs. That will give a good idea of each brands sound signature.

Todd

How about 4 words for the TV36 - great ULF, awesome mid-bass.

First off, you can't go wrong with any of the subs being discussed. They are all great. That being said, I think I am the only one so far to go from a JTR 2400 (not ULF) to a TV36 ipal. For my setup, I only have room for one sub in my room. The 2400 was great and I was happy with it, but I felt I might be missing some mid bass slam as its forte is ULF ("deep and violent" as Todd stated). Note that I am on concrete in an open floor plan. The TR and chest slam that I get with the TV36 is just amazing. The ULF isn't bad either.

But as I said in the beginning, you can't go wrong with any of the subs listed. Good luck with your decision.

NOTE - did you check with Tom on TV36 availability? I didn't think there was a waiting period for them, but I could be mistaken.
He said 3-4 weeks for any 12 series and up subs. Only has 11 series available.
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post #27 of 53 Old 10-15-2019, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post
It's up to you of course, and both subs you're considering are excellent, but if the PSA TV36Neo is of interest I wouldn't let a month get in the way. If the JTR isn't in stock and needs to be built it might take some time before you get it anyway. I think the TV36 Neo is probably the baddest thing in the $2500 price range at the moment and where I'd be leaning if I were in the market and could handle the size.


When I got my current subs built, there were delays in production and it took a couple of months longer than expected. It sucked at the time, but they've been putting a smile on my face for over 7 years now. Its like the delay never happened. A month in the scheme of things, in this case how long good audio gear lasts, is nothing.


But as I said, the JTR and Rythmik are both excellent so it's not like you're making a mistake with either.
I would second this statement, but I am biased. These were well worth the wait. If you have already been waiting whats a bit longer really?
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post #28 of 53 Old 10-15-2019, 08:32 AM
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Your 3 x S3601's should have tonnes of headroom in the midbass/chest slam region. Certainly more than the V1801s and probably right up there with the TV3612 above 40hz
They absolutely have plenty of headroom and hell even good TR , was watching El Camino last night and that has some good bass moments in it! The chest slam is definitely there as well , its just a little further on down the dial than I usually venture! Ported just seems to kick you quicker with less volume , I dont consider myself a very loud listener...I might throw the S3000I I have in the garage up tonight and see what happens lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Sounds like someone might need to consider a couple of TV36 ipals.......the heart wants what the heart wants. And I'm sure Tom would be more than willing to take those s3601s off your hands for a sweet trade.

Todd
It has definitely been discussed with Tom but I have ran into some interference from the old lady...I dont know what she was saying , something about responsibility and we dont need them , I dont know I wasnt really listening....Actually their size is just a bit too much I think , that and I am kind of waiting to see what Tom pulls out of his sleeve in regards to some of his other builds.....I have plenty of sub at the moment , so that makes it a bit easier to wait things out..
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post #29 of 53 Old 10-15-2019, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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All good info from everyone and I appreciate it! I ended up ordering the Rythmik FV25. My original plan was a single PSA V1811 so hope my plan to go with the FV25 will perform well, as I am sure it will. Probably would have been happy with the 1811.....
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post #30 of 53 Old 10-15-2019, 10:28 AM
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^^ Congrats on one very fine sub. The v1811 is not in the same class to be compared. You did well.
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