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High end passive subwoofer options?

26K views 27 replies 16 participants last post by  CptSpig 
#1 ·
The last 3 subwoofers I've bought have all had amp problems within a couple of years of purchase, and it really made me wish that I could have just swapped out an amp instead of getting the whole unit serviced. It made me wonder, are there any good high end passive subwoofer options? I can't seem to find any ID manufacturers that provide good passive options -- is there a reason for that? I'm thinking about trying to get an amp and 2 good 15" passive subwoofers but I can't seem to find any in the home theater world.
 
#2 ·
#3 ·
If you still have the subs you can buy an amp and make them passive. Jeff over at JTR used to have a passive version of the Captivator, you could try to reach him, he might have something of interest laying around. Generally though, I'm not aware of any passive HT subs out there for purchase.. They exist in the pro audio world.
 
#4 · (Edited)
#6 · (Edited)
From a technicians standpoint, many amps that fail can be repaired if you have someone that can do it for a reasonable price. Also, if a replacement amp is not available or won't fit, one can make the sub a passive unit at that point and bypass the amp . Could always use an outboard amp.

As far as passive subs...I would guess they did not sell well in the ID HT and lost out to the ID DIY crowd. Many that look for custom solutions take it a step further by designing their own.

The Dayton Audio driver as referenced above are some to check out.
Stereo Integrity makes some pretty capable drivers: https://stereointegrity.com/product-category/subs/
Also Adire Audio: https://www.adireaudio.com/
Fi Audio: https://ficaraudio.com/

Then, if one is not capable of doing the woodwork, there are prefab enclosures or one could always have one made by a woodworker. As far as amps... Many go with a pro audio amplifier because of max watts per dollar. Also, there are powerful plate amps out there if one want to go that route.

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/subwoofer-plate-amplifiers/332

https://www.speakerpower.net/
 
#9 ·
I can't seem to find any ID manufacturers that provide good passive options -- is there a reason for that? I'm thinking about trying to get an amp and 2 good 15" passive subwoofers but I can't seem to find any in the home theater world.
There's effectively no market for passive subs so that's why the ID manufacturers don't offer them. With the DSP tuning available today they are able to custom tailor the output and protection mechanisms to such a degree that perhaps 99% of the passive market goes to the DIY folks now.

Depending upon what your definition of 'high end' is - and what type of budget you're working with - Bag End has a lot of passive subwoofers. Typically you need their amplifier and processor though so I don't know if that qualifies as truly passive (but you can get an amp-less sub nonetheless). This is the type of equipment studios use to mix music and movie soundtracks, so it's high end in that regard, and they have a price to match.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Everyone -- This is really helpful, thank you. Those Chane boxes look like a great deal, and I'll look into the Bag End subs. As the world shifts more towards receiver-level room correction and multiple subs, I wonder if the market for passive subs will increase.

The subwoofers I had problems with were JL (twice, shame on me) and SVS (to be fair, their customer service was fantastic and resolved the problem quickly). In the meantime I have an ACI Force sub that's 20+ years old that's never missed a beat. The only components I've had fail in my 25 years of audio have been subwoofer amps.

I understand about things being taken care of under warranty, but I usually hold on to components for 10+ years, and I have a feeling with subs it won't be easy to get parts for them at that point, and I'd rather just be able to switch out a component amp instead of risking the loss of the driver and all that beautiful (well, depending on the model) woodworking.
 
#13 ·
That's kind of a high failure rate for one person to have three sub amps go bad. Did they send just the amp or did the whole sub have to be replaced? Even if an amp goes bad out of warranty, it might be reparable. So, it does not matter if one buys an all-in-one sub or a passive sub and a separate amp. If something fails outside of the warranty the choices are the same, try to repair it or replace it.

I have an old ~ 15 year HSU that I purchased not long ago. I got it cheap because it was old and the amp failed. I checked the amp components and found no blown output devices just bad caps. I replaced all the caps myself for not much money and the sub is running like a champ and shaking things around the house.

I understand once bitten, twice shy given the failures you've have had. However, think about a company like Power Sound Audio has a 5 year warranty which is pretty exceptional for subwoofers.
 
#11 ·
A note on those Chane subs... you will need some type of signal shaping mechanism otherwise you won't get much low bass. They start to roll off around 60Hz so if you don't prop them up using something like a Linkwitz Transfer you won't get the full effect (I actually reviewed one about 5 years ago so I have first hand knowledge of the product). That's technically no different to what almost every manufacturer does with their powered subwoofers, tailor the output to their exact specifications. When you buy a powered sub you get amplification and tuning, both of which you have to supply when going the passive route. That and the protection mechanisms to prevent over excursion, don't forget to add add it. Forgo that and your passive sub will become an ottoman in short order.
 
#14 ·
I'd assumed -- perhaps rashly -- that receiver level room correction could handle the signal shaping. Is that not true? I freely confess to being out of my depth here. Re the protection, that hadn't occured to me. Do passive subs need more protection than passive bookshelf speakers? What do people normally use?

I've been looking into DBA systems (like the Swarm or DEBRA) and as far as I can tell they appear to just be an amp plus 4 smallish (10") passive subwoofer. Part of my motivation in this is was wondering if it was possible to duplicate that setup using the same amp and larger (15"-18") passive subwoofers.
 
#26 ·
If you're getting a passive sub you're essentially only buying two things: a box and a driver (in many cases the exact same drivers we DIY guys use in boxes we build ourselves). If you can work a saw and glue some pieces together you can make the box part for $30-60. If you follow the sales you can get a PA460 for $75 and build a VBSS sub; a UM18-22 for $230 and build a 18" Marty; or a 21" san214.50 for $350 and build a 21" Marty or a Devastator.

Don't like sawing? GSG is a fantastic option, they're a one-stop subwoofer shop that sells the boxes, the drivers, and the amps all in one place. They also offer detailed instructions including EQ recommendations (and whatever other support you need by phone and email). I've built several of their designs and the results are fantastic.

I absolutely recognize that some folks have constraints. Some guys are wealthy and a few hours of their time is worth more than the hundreds or thousands they'd save building a sub box. Some guys hate tools and working with their hands, I get it. But if you can glue a few pieces of wood together there is no better bang-for-the-buck than the DIY sub box.
 
#19 ·
#21 · (Edited)
^^^^

Perfect timing – great thread

I've been researching this area for several months. Nearly every ID has moved to selling all-in-one subs with very high quality plated integrated amps. There are very few exceptions and very few passive subs. Like you, I prefer / need all my electronics in one cabinet / room and not scattered about the room into different power outlets. As for what’s better, there’s no right and wrong – only options which depend on your design goals. Clearly the market is delivering what most people can use, enjoy and want. I consider myself an outlier with few options as my SAF is pretty specific too.

Why would I want this format? My AVR setup / design is fed by a 7.5kVA isolation transformer + other. If I scattered "powered subs" about the space, then I have no simple way of supplying this power feed, in my great room which is my home theater. I’d have to install / distribute more power-outlets to support these dispersed plated subs. In most US homes, wall standard power outlets are series-wired 15A in a room or even multiple rooms - depending on what the electrician and builder decided. 20A outlets are typically required by code in areas like kitchens but seldom found in HT setups unless the owner designed it that way.

Jim Wilson makes excellent points that the DSP and other options available to subwoofer-engineers today is amazing. They can push their motors to extremes while delivering the best sound possible for us to enjoy. Some of this stuff simply was not possible or feasible just a few years ago. Part of my quest is to replace my original HSU HRSW10 passive’s. Note: These are tuned and controlled using RANE professional hardware with time delays etc.. so I could optimize each sub independently. That’s the best we could do 20 years ago before DSP came along. Guys, don’t laugh, they still pack a punch but I'm ready to move to a pair of 18" for this space.

The other constraint is the IDers, for the most part, adopted Henry Ford’s approach – any color you want as long as it’s black, blacker and glossy black. There are very, very few exceptions. Sadly, my SAF has said absolutely no more black monoliths in the room! If this were a dedicated HT area, I might get away with it but this is our main family room. She's upped the ante that they must meld nicely with the maple cabinets, they must be down-firing, they must be protected from pets, and I do have a rather aggressive size limit. Why? she does not to see any big black grates, we have pets, and they gotta be visually compact for the location. Oh, two more things - the space is nearly 10,000 ft3 - in very open floor plan so there's only 2 locations I can even put subs where they are not in the way and I prefer Made In the USA when possible.

So at this point, there are very few subwoofer engineers out here which are capable of making such products.

The only passive high(er)-end subs I located today were from RBH. The issue I have with those are none of the stuff Jim mentioned such as DSP optimizations, is there. Yeah, two of these would be the easiest drop in replacement for my original HSU’s but given what I read here, I think I can do better... eventually. Sadly HSU does not make/offer any passives now – round or otherwise and I asked them a few years ago. They politely conveyed – no market. For me their original sonotube approach was quite clever as it delivered a good quality unit which I could move without inducing a hernia!

The only contenders in this play I know of today are:


So if anyone knows of more options not already mentioned on this thread, please share. Peace.
 
#22 ·
Guys, don’t laugh, they still pack a punch but I'm ready to move to a pair of 18" for this space.

Sadly, my SAF has said absolutely no more black monoliths in the room! If this were a dedicated HT area, I might get away with it but this is our main family room. She's upped the ante that they must meld nicely with the maple cabinets, they must be down-firing, they must be protected from pets, and I do have a rather aggressive size limit. Why? she does not to see any big black grates, we have pets, and they gotta be visually compact for the location. Oh, two more things - the space is nearly 10,000 ft3 - in very open floor plan so there's only 2 locations I can even put subs where they are not in the way and I prefer Made In the USA when possible.

So if anyone knows of more options not already mentioned on this thread, please share. Peace.
A lot of what you're after can be had from Funk Audio. Virtually any finish you could want they would be able to do, including the ability to match the finish to your existing decor in a lot of instances. Their subs are known for their high quality sound to match the looks, and the 18" models are about as small as they can physically be. Not sure about passive options, but Nathan (@Funk Audio) is the one to ask.
 
#23 · (Edited)
^^^ Thank You! I've examined Funk Audio's site several times in the past. He makes exquisite subs! I'm starting to think my minimum checklist is not feasible or possible today. Maybe I have wait a few more years for the ID guys to add a little more flexibility into their lines or offer a custom-like option such as Seaton is sort of doing..
 
#25 ·
What we do is so flexible its hard to make it known what all we can do. We do have standard products but we can do almost anything imaginable on a custom basis, passive designs included. We have done quite a few and can even optimize our drivers for these applications depending on the use the planned amps etc.
 
#28 ·

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