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post #1 of 20 Old 10-21-2019, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Opinions on Subs for HT

Hi All,

I'm seeking opinions for a sub upgrade of my HT setup, for both models and implementations.

I currently have a 3.1 setup with Infinity Sterling SS2003 (non-ported 8" woofer, 1" tweeter) and Infinity Sterling Center and a single BU-1 Sub (8" down-firing, side port, 50W RMS, 45-150Hz) being run from a Denon AVR-S730H. My main reason for looking at an audio upgrade is that the sub doesn't reach very low. I can't really hear anything from the sub below roughly 35-40Hz, in line with the specs. It does fine above that. The system used almost exclusively for TV and movies. I'm mainly looking at front-firing, ported models, and I'm open to the idea of either single or dual subs, and possibly down-firing subs. I don't need to shake the house to rubble, but would like to play lower sounds. Size isn't really a limiting factor, but I'd prefer smaller to larger.

The room is a finished section of the basement. It's a rectangle in shape, roughly 32.5' wide, 12.5' across, and 7' high (~2850 ft^3). It's set up so that the viewing area takes up about 40% of one end, across the 12.5' side. To the viewer's right is a wall, and to the left the open space of the rest of the room. Seating is a sectional sofa in the corner where the right side and rear are directly against exterior walls, which prompted us to to drop from 5.1 to 3.1 years ago. Listeners are about 11'-12' from the screen/speakers. L/R speakers are about 14'-15' apart.

There's a door to an office, another to the unfinished side of the basement, and stairs, all at the farthest end of the room. Doors to the other rooms and at the top of the stairs are typically closed when watching, making the room pretty much a closed box. The room is carpeted, and has dropped ceiling tile. The near wall and rear are exterior walls. Behind the screen/speakers and the far wall are drywall.

I picked up a 2nd BU-1 because I thought I had a mid-range hole in the sound, and a bad transition from sub-to-speakers. I was prompted to check settings to make sure that I didn't set the AVR improperly and/or set a cutoff for the speakers, which seems likely. I'll check and make those corrections, and I plan to test setting each sub as L/R with their respective speaker and signal, tell the AVR that I have no sub, and send full-range to L/R fronts.

Is that a reasonable setup to have 2 "big" speakers, or should I set the sub(s) for LFE driven by the sub pre-outs? From what I've read, a 2nd sub could help fill in dead spots of the room, and separation of L/R signals could help avoid interference. Any thoughts on this appreciated.

I'm trying to spend as little as possible to get lower frequency response and non-boomy bass. Lower doesn't necessarily mean 10Hz. Remember, I'm coming from a single sub spec'ed at 45Hz and 50W RMS!
I've pretty much ruled out the "usual suspect" budget subs such as the Polk PSW-10/505, Monoprice 9723, Dayton SUB-1200/1500, BIC F12/PL-200II, etc because of lack of either power or clarity, from comments and reviews, or their price relative to candidates below.

Candidate subs include:
Some I can consider getting 2 of, probably one now, and potentially adding 1 later:
Infinity Primus PS410 (10", 300W/500W RMS/Peak, 27-150Hz, front firing, rear port) $130 refurb
Infinity Primus PS312 (12", 400W/700W RMS/Peak, 25-150Hz, front firing, rear port) $200 refurb
Premier Acoustic PA-150 (15", 250W/1000W RMS/Peak, 25-180Hz, front firing, rear port) $250 new

With the Infinity subs, I think I've found how to avoid the fried amps, so I'm asking for opinions of how they perform at their best. Considering the equipment I'm starting with, specs and prices of the subs listed here, I'm leaning heavily towards getting 1 or 2 PS410s, unless commentary on their sound quality is poor. In that case, I'd have to think hard about 1 or 2 big PA-150s, or stretching my budget.

If I stretch my spending amount, I could consider one of these if it was a notable improvement over two of the previous:
RSL Speedwoofer 10S (10", 350W/???W RMS/Peak, 24-200Hz, front firing, front port) $399 new/direct.
SVS PB-1000 (10", 300W/720W RMS/Peak, frq resp varies, but sub-20Hz, Front firing, front port) $500 new/direct, $440 new online.
Monoprice Monolith 10" Ported (10", 500W/???W RMS/Peak, frq resp varies, but sub-20Hz, Front firing, front port) $550 new/direct. Sales go lower.

From these, I'll wait to see what prices BF sales bring for the Monolith, PB-1000, and Speedwoofer 10s, which I like in that order on paper.

A Black Friday sale on a Monolith sounds great, and I'm sure 2 would be even more awesome, but considering the prices and quality of the other equipment, I wonder if they're over-the-top compared to 1 or 2 of the cheaper subs and the rest of the speakers.

Thanks
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post #2 of 20 Old 10-25-2019, 05:56 AM
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Medium-sized room in a basement: IMO you should strongly consider one now of whatever your budget will allow (Monolith 10" or PB-1000) and another one of the same later on.

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post #3 of 20 Old 10-25-2019, 07:15 AM
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Agree with eljaycanuck. Without a doubt in that sized room for purely HT use aim for the stretching the budget options. Personally I would skip the RSL. It's a great sub for size and price but doesn't get as low as the PB-1000 or Mono 10 so less ideal for purely HT. The Mono 10 is a better performer than the PB-1000 but SVS has the better support as well as a discount on a second if you add within the year or ability to easily trade up within a year. I snagged a PB-1000 with no visible blemishes from the outlet during their Labor Day sale for $350 for a secondary kids basement setup so waiting to see what happens with Monoprice or SVS BF sales is a good idea.
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post #4 of 20 Old 10-25-2019, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Medium-sized room in a basement: IMO you should strongly consider one now of whatever your budget will allow (Monolith 10" or PB-1000) and another one of the same later on.
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Agree with eljaycanuck. ... so waiting to see what happens with Monoprice or SVS BF sales is a good idea.
Thanks for the feedback.

I had planned to hold off until Black Friday, and see if I could get the PB-1000 or Monolith 10" for $400(-ish), but Harman Audio "tricked" me into buying their refurbs. They put a timer up indicating the price was a sale and going to change (I hadn't seen a timer before), so I bought 2x PS410s just before the countdown ended, and sure enough, the price didn't change. Still available at the same price.

I have 30 days to see if I like them (and i may send them back unopened out of spite for their "sale"! ), and I'm sure they'll kill the single BU-1 with 6x the RMS watts and ~20Hz lower frequency response. I was hoping to get them so that the return window overlapped with Black Friday, but I fell for their shenanigans. Even if I miss out, I should be able to sell both of them later if a great deal on the other subs comes along. In the worst case, the plate amplifiers by themselves are probably worth what I paid. I can try a DIY kit and use them. The main "drawback" is the lack of speaker level input/output. Since I plan to make them L/R with the speakers, I was hoping to use speaker wire and make the AVR think it was 1 "big" speaker on each L/R channel. To avoid having to use the zone 2 outs on the receiver (whoops! mine doesn't have that! Receiver upgrade!) and limit the system to 5.x, I'll try speaker-to-line level converters and run the sub and speaker in parallel. Otherwise I may have to let the Dayton SUB-1200 back in as an option on the budget end. The PB-1000 has the speaker level input, but the Monolith does not.
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post #5 of 20 Old 10-26-2019, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philpoe View Post
Hi All,

I'm seeking opinions for a sub upgrade of my HT setup, for both models and implementations.

I currently have a 3.1 setup with Infinity Sterling SS2003 (non-ported 8" woofer, 1" tweeter) and Infinity Sterling Center and a single BU-1 Sub (8" down-firing, side port, 50W RMS, 45-150Hz) being run from a Denon AVR-S730H. My main reason for looking at an audio upgrade is that the sub doesn't reach very low. I can't really hear anything from the sub below roughly 35-40Hz, in line with the specs. It does fine above that. The system used almost exclusively for TV and movies. I'm mainly looking at front-firing, ported models, and I'm open to the idea of either single or dual subs, and possibly down-firing subs. I don't need to shake the house to rubble, but would like to play lower sounds. Size isn't really a limiting factor, but I'd prefer smaller to larger.

The room is a finished section of the basement. It's a rectangle in shape, roughly 32.5' wide, 12.5' across, and 7' high (~2850 ft^3). It's set up so that the viewing area takes up about 40% of one end, across the 12.5' side. To the viewer's right is a wall, and to the left the open space of the rest of the room. Seating is a sectional sofa in the corner where the right side and rear are directly against exterior walls, which prompted us to to drop from 5.1 to 3.1 years ago. Listeners are about 11'-12' from the screen/speakers. L/R speakers are about 14'-15' apart.

There's a door to an office, another to the unfinished side of the basement, and stairs, all at the farthest end of the room. Doors to the other rooms and at the top of the stairs are typically closed when watching, making the room pretty much a closed box. The room is carpeted, and has dropped ceiling tile. The near wall and rear are exterior walls. Behind the screen/speakers and the far wall are drywall.

I picked up a 2nd BU-1 because I thought I had a mid-range hole in the sound, and a bad transition from sub-to-speakers. I was prompted to check settings to make sure that I didn't set the AVR improperly and/or set a cutoff for the speakers, which seems likely. I'll check and make those corrections, and I plan to test setting each sub as L/R with their respective speaker and signal, tell the AVR that I have no sub, and send full-range to L/R fronts.

Is that a reasonable setup to have 2 "big" speakers, or should I set the sub(s) for LFE driven by the sub pre-outs? From what I've read, a 2nd sub could help fill in dead spots of the room, and separation of L/R signals could help avoid interference. Any thoughts on this appreciated.

I'm trying to spend as little as possible to get lower frequency response and non-boomy bass. Lower doesn't necessarily mean 10Hz. Remember, I'm coming from a single sub spec'ed at 45Hz and 50W RMS!
I've pretty much ruled out the "usual suspect" budget subs such as the Polk PSW-10/505, Monoprice 9723, Dayton SUB-1200/1500, BIC F12/PL-200II, etc because of lack of either power or clarity, from comments and reviews, or their price relative to candidates below.

Candidate subs include:
Some I can consider getting 2 of, probably one now, and potentially adding 1 later:
Infinity Primus PS410 (10", 300W/500W RMS/Peak, 27-150Hz, front firing, rear port) $130 refurb
Infinity Primus PS312 (12", 400W/700W RMS/Peak, 25-150Hz, front firing, rear port) $200 refurb
Premier Acoustic PA-150 (15", 250W/1000W RMS/Peak, 25-180Hz, front firing, rear port) $250 new

With the Infinity subs, I think I've found how to avoid the fried amps, so I'm asking for opinions of how they perform at their best. Considering the equipment I'm starting with, specs and prices of the subs listed here, I'm leaning heavily towards getting 1 or 2 PS410s, unless commentary on their sound quality is poor. In that case, I'd have to think hard about 1 or 2 big PA-150s, or stretching my budget.

If I stretch my spending amount, I could consider one of these if it was a notable improvement over two of the previous:
RSL Speedwoofer 10S (10", 350W/???W RMS/Peak, 24-200Hz, front firing, front port) $399 new/direct.
SVS PB-1000 (10", 300W/720W RMS/Peak, frq resp varies, but sub-20Hz, Front firing, front port) $500 new/direct, $440 new online.
Monoprice Monolith 10" Ported (10", 500W/???W RMS/Peak, frq resp varies, but sub-20Hz, Front firing, front port) $550 new/direct. Sales go lower.

From these, I'll wait to see what prices BF sales bring for the Monolith, PB-1000, and Speedwoofer 10s, which I like in that order on paper.

A Black Friday sale on a Monolith sounds great, and I'm sure 2 would be even more awesome, but considering the prices and quality of the other equipment, I wonder if they're over-the-top compared to 1 or 2 of the cheaper subs and the rest of the speakers.

Thanks
Rythmik L12 would be a good option - it's a larger sub, but same price as the Monolith.
HSU VTF-2 MK5 is also one to consider as well, and it's being offered for $509 right now

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post #6 of 20 Old 10-26-2019, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Rythmik L12 would be a good option - it's a larger sub, but same price as the Monolith.
HSU VTF-2 MK5 is also one to consider as well, and it's being offered for $509 right now
I'll add the Rythmik L12 to my "expensive" candidates, but I expect that I'll see lower prices on the Monolith and PB-1000 for Black Friday. While I was already considering the VTF-2, shipping costs make it a little too pricey for me.

All of these subs could easily overwhelm my current 3.0 front speakers, but I guess that's expected, since price-wise they overwhelm the speakers as well

My fingers are crossed that 2 PS410s can satisfy the itch (at least for now) at their super-low price. If not, I'm fairly certain that a sale-priced PB-1000 or Monolith is LFE overkill for my room/setup. I should have at least 1 of the Infinitys in place by the end of weekend.
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post #7 of 20 Old 10-26-2019, 01:22 PM
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I'll add the Rythmik L12 to my "expensive" candidates, but I expect that I'll see lower prices on the Monolith and PB-1000 for Black Friday. While I was already considering the VTF-2, shipping costs make it a little too pricey for me.

All of these subs could easily overwhelm my current 3.0 front speakers, but I guess that's expected, since price-wise they overwhelm the speakers as well

My fingers are crossed that 2 PS410s can satisfy the itch (at least for now) at their super-low price. If not, I'm fairly certain that a sale-priced PB-1000 or Monolith is LFE overkill for my room/setup. I should have at least 1 of the Infinitys in place by the end of weekend.
dual 10" would almost be better than a single 12", so you'd probably be just fine with the pair of PS410s.

I wouldn't worry too much about a larger sub overpowering - your AVR's room calibration would take care of that, plus you can turn the gain/volume down on the sub if it's still too much. I went from a 10" PSW10/Elac S10EQ to a 15" HSU ULS-15 MK2 for my HT. The difference has been drastically different, and the volume knob on it is barely past the minimum notch, and it still thumps harder than the 10" subs did. The advantage of that, I think, is far less power consumption, and less distortion at the same volume because the woofer isn't being driven as hard.

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post #8 of 20 Old 10-26-2019, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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dual 10" would almost be better than a single 12", so you'd probably be just fine with the pair of PS410s.

I wouldn't worry too much about a larger sub overpowering - your AVR's room calibration would take care of that, plus you can turn the gain/volume down on the sub if it's still too much. I went from a 10" PSW10/Elac S10EQ to a 15" HSU ULS-15 MK2 for my HT. The difference has been drastically different, and the volume knob on it is barely past the minimum notch, and it still thumps harder than the 10" subs did. The advantage of that, I think, is far less power consumption, and less distortion at the same volume because the woofer isn't being driven as hard.
Thanks for the feedback.
Before the big jump to the HSU ULS-15 MK2, was there much difference going from PSW10 to Elac S10EQ? Spec-wise that's not so far off from the difference between the BU-1 and PS410. I suspect a single PS410 may far outperform a pair of BU-1s just from the lower frequency response, let alone the much higher available power.

In your opinion, is the HSU better than 2 Elacs may have been? I ask because receivers typically provide power specs from 20Hz-20Khz, and I wonder if they can start to become a limiting factor.
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post #9 of 20 Old 10-26-2019, 03:31 PM
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Thanks for the feedback.
Before the big jump to the HSU ULS-15 MK2, was there much difference going from PSW10 to Elac S10EQ? Spec-wise that's not so far off from the difference between the BU-1 and PS410. I suspect a single PS410 may far outperform a pair of BU-1s just from the lower frequency response, let alone the much higher available power.

In your opinion, is the HSU better than 2 Elacs may have been? I ask because receivers typically provide power specs from 20Hz-20Khz, and I wonder if they can start to become a limiting factor.
There was even a noticeable difference - PSW10 was 50 watt RMS, Elac is 200 watt RMS, so it was able to punch harder . The Elac wasn't ported like the PSW10, so it wasn't as "boomy" - the Elac also has the advantage of an Auto EQ function, which I believe works to flatten out the response time.

I think on average, a dual pair of any sub would outperform a single sub that's one size larger.

Yes, I think one ULS-15 MK2 is better than two Elac S10EQ/3010s. I still think AVRs will play lower than 20Hz - it's more of a gradual roll off than a wall. By the time you get below 20Hz, it's more of a tactile feeling rather than an audible sound, too. My AVR's Frequency Response is 10Hz - 100KHz - same as the Denon S730H.
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post #10 of 20 Old 11-07-2019, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,
... I'm trying to spend as little as possible to get lower frequency response and non-boomy bass. Lower doesn't necessarily mean 10Hz. Remember, I'm coming from a single sub spec'ed at 45Hz and 50W RMS!

... I'm leaning heavily towards getting 1 or 2 PS410s, unless commentary on their sound quality is poor.
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Yes, I think one ULS-15 MK2 is better than two Elac S10EQ/3010s. I still think AVRs will play lower than 20Hz - it's more of a gradual roll off than a wall. By the time you get below 20Hz, it's more of a tactile feeling rather than an audible sound, too.
Well, after some deal hunting, I have a basement littered with speakers and subwoofers...
2x Infinity BU-1 that I started with
2x Infinity PS410 that Harman finessed me into buying
1x Infinity PS8 that came with a Primus 5.1 setup that I picked up for cheap
Then the much-larger-than-I-expected box arrived with a Hsu VTF-3 Mk2 in it. This thing is comically large compared to the other subs. WAF will most likely be an issue.

I didn't bother hooking up the PS8, but as for the others, I played a 10-100Hz sweep on youtube, and:
BU-1 : I could start to hear something at around 35Hz, fairly strong at 40Hz, and was pretty much what I expected. Since I don't listen to movies extra loud, it was fine, with some room left on the volume.

PS410 : I could start to hear something around 25Hz, fairly strong between 30-35Hz, with a little more room to turn the volume up. It wasn't bad at all, especially for the price. The amp is much more powerful than the BU-1, but it really wasn't overwhelmingly better in this example of the sweep, but I'll try to watch some movies to see. The fact that it's front firing means that I could match 1 with each front speaker and make a pair of virtual "big" speakers, which is what I was looking for. The problem(s) with that are that the PS410 only takes line level inputs, and I would want to high-pass the speakers, meaning extra parts to make it "right". On top of that, I already know the amps are known to overheat, and I went to the big box hardware store to get longer screws to air-gap the amp, but the screws Infinity used were non-standard (?!?) and didn't match anything in stock or their measuring holes. Given that, and the fact that they "tricked" me, I'm packing them up and they're going back. I might have worked that all out for that low price... except I had the VTF-3 Mk2

VTF-3 Mk2 (extension mode) : Again, this thing is huge in comparison. I could hear sound fairly clearly at 18Hz, fairly strong by 25Hz, with waaayy more headroom to turn the volume up compared to the other 2 subs. This thing is in a different league. Its capabilities are beyond my listening needs and the rest of my system. That doesn't mean I'm getting rid of it so quickly though . It will probably last as long as my wife and I aren't overly distracted by it's size.

If the PS410s weren't prone to heat failure and had speaker level inputs, I'd probably have gone with them. They're inexpensive, relatively small and relatively powerful.
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VTF-3 Mk2 (extension mode) : Again, this thing is huge in comparison.
Yeah, that thing is huge - I took one look at the dimensions on their site, and said, "Nope!"

The ULS-15 MK2 is pretty large, too - it's large enough that I could use it as a side coffee table. The steps to unbox was quite comedic, too (which barely fit through my door). The performance of it, though... I think that outweighs its physical size.

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I could hear sound fairly clearly at 18Hz, fairly strong by 25Hz, with waaayy more headroom to turn the volume up compared to the other 2 subs. This thing is in a different league.
I think you have more control over its volume/output when you barely have to go past the minimum notch on the volume dial.

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Its capabilities are beyond my listening needs and the rest of my system. That doesn't mean I'm getting rid of it so quickly though . It will probably last as long as my wife and I aren't overly distracted by it's size.
The ULS-15 MK2 is far beyond what my listening needs and room are as well. The trade-off is using less power to get the same volume of a much smaller sub with no distortion.

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | KEF Q150 L/R | Elac S10EQ Subwoofer
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post #12 of 20 Old 11-07-2019, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, that thing is huge - I took one look at the dimensions on their site, and said, "Nope!"

The ULS-15 MK2 is pretty large, too - it's large enough that I could use it as a side coffee table. The steps to unbox was quite comedic, too
... The performance of it, though... I think that outweighs its physical size.

The ULS-15 MK2 is far beyond what my listening needs and room are as well. The trade-off is using less power to get the same volume of a much smaller sub with no distortion.
lol @ "Nope!" and comedic unboxing... I can relate!

Now having seen it and heard it, it looks like we're in similar boats for the moment!
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post #13 of 20 Old 11-07-2019, 09:24 AM
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If there is a good sale on the Monolith 15 THX Ultra, you should consider it. I got mine on sale for a little over 1K. It really plays clean and with authority up and down the spectrum. The bass is tight and musical even though it’s ported. I had two Monolith 10’s in the same room before the 15 but they don’t come close to the experience with a single 15 imo.
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post #14 of 20 Old 11-07-2019, 08:21 PM
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Here's a sale on an infinity sub, looks to be a good deal but I know nothing about it.

Though I agree with others...go big or go home..!

https://slickdeals.net/f/13526068-in...?src=frontpage




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post #15 of 20 Old 11-08-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
If there is a good sale on the Monolith 15 THX Ultra, you should consider it. I got mine on sale for a little over 1K. It really plays clean and with authority up and down the spectrum. The bass is tight and musical even though it’s ported. I had two Monolith 10’s in the same room before the 15 but they don’t come close to the experience with a single 15 imo.
+1

And also adding a second one in the future, if needed. I like to say, buy the biggest one you can afford even if it mean waiting longer. Buy once, cry once
And also apply the same now, when changing dual subs. With the exception, that I save until ready to buy two. Patience is our best allied, in this Hobby.


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post #16 of 20 Old 11-09-2019, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
If there is a good sale on the Monolith 15 THX Ultra, you should consider it. I got mine on sale for a little over 1K. It really plays clean and with authority up and down the spectrum. The bass is tight and musical even though it’s ported. I had two Monolith 10’s in the same room before the 15 but they don’t come close to the experience with a single 15 imo.
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+1
And also adding a second one in the future, if needed. I like to say, buy the biggest one you can afford even if it mean waiting longer. Buy once, cry once
And also apply the same now, when changing dual subs. With the exception, that I save until ready to buy two. Patience is our best allied, in this Hobby.
Unfortunately, that's way out of budget. As it is, the VTF-3 Mk2 already totally outclasses the rest of my system (and takes up space like furniture!).
Now that I've had a chance to watch some TV with it, I think the itch is satisfied for the moment. The VTF is in fact, overkill for my needs, but fits budget, so it can stay for now .
In hindsight, I probably would have been satisfied with 2 Dayton SUB-1200s, but I was hoping the PS410s would meet/surpass them at an even lower price point. Unfortunately the PS410s have too many compromises. If the SUB-1200s were available as open-boxes, i probably would have gone that way and not looked back. However, now that I've gone this route, the physical thump that comes with the VTF can't be ignored, and has stretched my thinking.

If I had a higher budget, more space and wasn't going DIY (and thought I'd get past WAF), I'd get 2 cheaper subs and dedicate one to left and right, then high-pass the speakers for best full-range input. Then I'd get whatever I could afford that reaches lowest for the LFE, and place it for best effect. 2 SUB-1200s + the used VTF-3 MK2 would have been < $600 and would crush my space.
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post #17 of 20 Old 11-09-2019, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by javan robinson View Post
Here's a sale on an infinity sub, looks to be a good deal but I know nothing about it.

Though I agree with others...go big or go home..!

https://slickdeals.net/f/13526068-in...?src=frontpage
Thanks for the link, but I went with the PS410 since it reached lower in frequency at a pretty good price. Given that I was having trouble finding the parts to fix the ventilation problems, I'm pretty much out on Infinity subs at the moment.
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post #18 of 20 Old 11-09-2019, 03:23 AM
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I wouldn't get too hung up on brand, etc. The room and number of subs and how they are managed makes by far the biggest difference. I have a really bad room shape as almost square at about 16.5 feet each side and half that in height. Now have four 10" subs, one in each corner (only places available) and a DSP with separate channels for each. Two are new XLS200 Mk2 subs from BK: http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XLS200-DF.htm and two are old B&W subs whose internals gave up the ghost a while ago so I now power them from external amps.
Took REW individual plots for both of the front mains and each of the subs at four main listening locations, see attached REW_MLP for just the main position and REW_All with the three additional seating positions. Ran the results through AndyC's excellent MSO program which produced the four filter chain responses and associated gain and delay figures as shown in MSO_Filters_Graph.

Originally had huge bass boom about 3' from the screen and almost nothing at the listening positions around 13' from the screen. Now there are still some problems around the mid-80Hz and 120Hz regions to be dealt with, but otherwise vastly improved. See comp1 for a before and after at the MLP.


To reiterate, how you place and manage the subs will make the biggest difference, not just how much you spend on subs. A read of this is essential: https://www.harman.com/sites/default...multsubs_0.pdf
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post #19 of 20 Old 11-09-2019, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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VTF-3 Mk2 (extension mode) : Again, this thing is huge in comparison. I could hear sound fairly clearly at 18Hz, fairly strong by 25Hz, with waaayy more headroom to turn the volume up compared to the other 2 subs. This thing is in a different league. Its capabilities are beyond my listening needs and the rest of my system. That doesn't mean I'm getting rid of it so quickly though . It will probably last as long as my wife and I aren't overly distracted by it's size.
Update:
I'm not sure what I did the first time that made a difference, but after playing around with connections to see how the BU-1s sounded again, I hooked the VTF-3 back up in what I thought was the same configuration, and I'm pretty sure I turned the amp down a little, I guess I had the stereo volume up as we were watching some show on Netflix, but when I ran the 10-100hz sweep for my wife. EGADS!

It came on strong immediately at 10Hz, and before it got to 20Hz, I could hear dishes rattling upstairs and joists creaking. I had totally under-evaluated how strong this thing is.

Size be darned, this sub has a new home, and now my new dilemma is resisting the urge to find speakers that can play at this level...
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post #20 of 20 Old 11-09-2019, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FrankC2D View Post
To reiterate, how you place and manage the subs will make the biggest difference, not just how much you spend on subs. A read of this is essential: https://www.harman.com/sites/default...multsubs_0.pdf
Very interesting read!

I was hoping to get some differentiation of signal from L/R subs along with the "main" LFE sub to combine to diminish null spots, but my placement options are limited to up front only. We'll see what I can do to get other subs in place. The PS410s are gone, and I'll play with the BU-1s as a proxy for perhaps the SUB-1200s, but the viewing area seems too small for all this firepower.
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