SVS PB16 Ultra upgrade from Velodyne - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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SVS PB16 Ultra upgrade from Velodyne

Hi all,

I'm considering purchasing an SVS PB16 ULTRA for my lounge setup.

Currently I'm running a Velodyne SPL-1200 Ultra, and want some more low-end

My current room is about 4m x 5m, the equivalent of 13.123ft x 16.404ft. , however in a year I'll be moving into a new place with an open plan lounge / dining, I don't have the dimensions handy.

Given my current lounge isn't very large, is the PB16 still going to sound okay? I'm concerned about it not having room correction like my Velodyne. But perhaps I can borrow an spl meter and do some tuning myself.

The rest of the gear is as follows.

Receiver : Yahama RX-A3030
Fronts : Paradigm Studio 60 - bi amped via the yamaha
Centre : Paradigm Signature c3 v5
Rears : Paradigm Studio 20

My primary use for the system is listening to music, mostly bass heavy stuff like electronic music(drum n bass / dubstep), or rock. Balance is important but I probably listen hot by a few dB for electronic stuff.

From the research I've done I think it will be a good choice, and I'd rather spend the money to get the PB over the SB.

I live in New Zealand so my choices for alternatives are limited. I was interested in the Paradigm SW2000 but they no longer seem to exist any more.

Thanks for your time all <3

Last edited by ReaperZ; 10-21-2019 at 07:12 PM.
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post #2 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 06:39 PM
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Since lot's of members, use the Imperial system. I did those conversion for you, to have more reply

"My current room is about 4m x 5m", the equivalent of 13.123ft x 16.404ft.

That said, the SVS PB16 is know to have stronger lower bass. While some other brands, are stronger in the mid bass frequencies.
SVS as many dealer, distributer word wide. And there one for New Zealand call Sound Group;
https://www.svsound.com/pages/international-dealers
"
Sound Group

Unit B / 3 Rothwell Avenue
Albany, Auckland, New Zealand
Phone: (+64) 9 415 6680"


And you could also sent e-mail to SVS Customer Service, for advise.


Darth
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post #3 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 06:50 PM
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I had the Velodyne SPL 1200R ( not sure on your "ultra" description)? My first upgrade was to a SVS SB13_U and that was a noticeable upgrade as it hit deeper while maintaining the clean sound of my Velodyne. Going to a PB 16-U will have ridicules amounts more bass below 40Hz. I'm not a ported guy but if your wanting loads of low end the difference will be significant.

I'll have to google your avr to see if it has room correction but even Yamaha's best doesnt EQ below 31.5Hz unless there have been recent changes i dont know about.
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post #4 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
I had the Velodyne SPL 1200R ( not sure on your "ultra" description)? My first upgrade was to a SVS SB13_U and that was a noticeable upgrade as it hit deeper while maintaining the clean sound of my Velodyne. Going to a PB 16-U will have ridicules amounts more bass below 40Hz. I'm not a ported guy but if your wanting loads of low end the difference will be significant.

I'll have to google your avr to see if it has room correction but even Yamaha's best doesnt EQ below 31.5Hz unless there have been recent changes i dont know about.
Unlike you, I do prefer ported sub. But we all have, our own preference
That said, I very much agree a 16 Ultra should be a big upgrade for the OP.

Darth
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Last edited by darthray; 10-21-2019 at 07:07 PM.
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post #5 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Since lot's of members, use the Imperial system. I did those conversion for you, to have more reply

"My current room is about 4m x 5m", the equivalent of 13.123ft x 16.404ft.

That said, the SVS PB16 is know to have stronger lower bass. While some other brands, are stronger in the mid bass frequencies.
SVS as many dealer, distributer word wide. And there one for New Zealand call Sound Group;
https://www.svsound.com/pages/international-dealers
"
Sound Group

Unit B / 3 Rothwell Avenue
Albany, Auckland, New Zealand
Phone: (+64) 9 415 6680"


And you could also sent e-mail to SVS Customer Service, for advise.


Darth

Thanks so much for that conversion! really appreciate it I'll edit my post to include it.


Theres about three stores in NZ who stock the SVS range, so i'll contact a local one and demo it in store, but i dont think its the kind of thing they'd let me trial at home. I saw SVS in USA have a 45 day trial, not sure if that applies here.





Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
I had the Velodyne SPL 1200R ( not sure on your "ultra" description)? My first upgrade was to a SVS SB13_U and that was a noticeable upgrade as it hit deeper while maintaining the clean sound of my Velodyne. Going to a PB 16-U will have ridicules amounts more bass below 40Hz. I'm not a ported guy but if your wanting loads of low end the difference will be significant.

I'll have to google your avr to see if it has room correction but even Yamaha's best doesnt EQ below 31.5Hz unless there have been recent changes i dont know about.

The Ultra is a newer version of the 1200R, I used to run 1x 1200 Ultra and 1x 1200R, they perform fairly on par with each other, however the Ultra had an LCD display on the front showing the power level from 1-60, while the R didnt have any visual indication'


Its nice to hear that you found the SB13-U a noticeable upgrade, that gives me great hope that the PB16-U would be even more significant of a step up. Regarding the port vs non port, the Velodyne is the only sealed unit ive owned and while its tightness is appreciated, I do truly seek that "low" that the ported will give me. I also note the ports come with blocking filters with the PB16-U, which may help if i needed that aspect.


I want to be hit in the face with bass
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post #6 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Unlike you, I do prefer ported sub. But we all have, our own preference
That said, I very much agree a 16 Ultra should be a big upgrade for the OP.


Darth
I would say i prefer a sealed sub due to not having room for large ported as been the primary reason lol. I'm sure if i had the room i'd have a pair of Nathan Funks new flagship subs. I have never heard any of the latest ported subs so in my case size has kept me to the best sealed i could find. I'm sure i'd be blown away hearing the latest tech on ported subs no doubt.
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post #7 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 07:14 PM
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Below 40Hz i think the PB 16 will have at least three times the output!!!!!!!!!! Like i said it will be significant.
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post #8 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
I would say i prefer a sealed sub due to not having room for large ported as been the primary reason lol. I'm sure if i had the room i'd have a pair of Nathan Funks new flagship subs. I have never heard any of the latest ported subs so in my case size has kept me to the best sealed i could find. I'm sure i'd be blown away hearing the latest tech on ported subs no doubt.
No reason needed on my end, my audio buddy
That said, I like you did point out your Bias. And took the habit of doing the same. Since it can make a difference for someone looking for advise, knowing our Bias.


Darth
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post #9 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Thanks so much for that conversion! really appreciate it I'll edit my post to include it.


Theres about three stores in NZ who stock the SVS range, so i'll contact a local one and demo it in store, but i dont think its the kind of thing they'd let me trial at home. I saw SVS in USA have a 45 day trial, not sure if that applies here.

The Ultra is a newer version of the 1200R, I used to run 1x 1200 Ultra and 1x 1200R, they perform fairly on par with each other, however the Ultra had an LCD display on the front showing the power level from 1-60, while the R didnt have any visual indication'

Its nice to hear that you found the SB13-U a noticeable upgrade, that gives me great hope that the PB16-U would be even more significant of a step up. Regarding the port vs non port, the Velodyne is the only sealed unit ive owned and while its tightness is appreciated, I do truly seek that "low" that the ported will give me. I also note the ports come with blocking filters with the PB16-U, which may help if i needed that aspect.

I want to be hit in the face with bass
Can you elaborate on this one?
Some prefer more TR (feeling the bass), while some others prefer the slam in your chest (more like stronger, mid bass) as I do.
The reason I am moving from my dual PB13-Ultra, to dual Rythmik FV18.

Since you live in New Zealand, I think a PB16-Ultra would be a good choice with all ports open. If you prefer the chest slam. And could also try this;
III-C: Cascading Crossovers:
Or preferring more TR, trying some ports options. And also leave you open, trying a combination of all them.

Since it sound like you have only one shot at-it, I suggest you read this Guide;
Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Part of this Guide;
VIII-A: Sealed Versus Ported Subwoofers:
VIII-C: Selecting Single Versus Multiple Subwoofers:
While long to read, it is very well written. And full of useful information's


Darth

Last edited by darthray; 10-21-2019 at 07:51 PM.
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post #10 of 41 Old 10-21-2019, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Thanks so much for that conversion! really appreciate it I'll edit my post to include it.


Theres about three stores in NZ who stock the SVS range, so i'll contact a local one and demo it in store, but i dont think its the kind of thing they'd let me trial at home. I saw SVS in USA have a 45 day trial, not sure if that applies here.








The Ultra is a newer version of the 1200R, I used to run 1x 1200 Ultra and 1x 1200R, they perform fairly on par with each other, however the Ultra had an LCD display on the front showing the power level from 1-60, while the R didnt have any visual indication'


Its nice to hear that you found the SB13-U a noticeable upgrade, that gives me great hope that the PB16-U would be even more significant of a step up. Regarding the port vs non port, the Velodyne is the only sealed unit ive owned and while its tightness is appreciated, I do truly seek that "low" that the ported will give me. I also note the ports come with blocking filters with the PB16-U, which may help if i needed that aspect.


I want to be hit in the face with bass
Oh i thought the DD12 came after the SPL 1200R. As for "hit in the face bass" i agree with Darth,,,, interpretation of "that" can mean different things. Chest slam happens between 50/100Hz (approx). In your face ULF will be where the PB16 shines so i hope your clear on what you want. Not saying the PB wont be good in midbass too but other subs will have an advantage there, or like Darth said check out Mthomas47's thread on cascading X-overs combined with different port options should give you all you want.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Can you elaborate on this one?
Some prefer more TR (feeling the bass), while some others prefer the slam in your chest (more like stronger, mid bass) as I do.
The reason I am moving from my dual PB13-Ultra, to dual Rythmik FV18.

Since you live in New Zealand, I think a PB16-Ultra would be a good choice with all ports open. If you prefer the chest slam. And could also try this;
III-C: Cascading Crossovers:
Or preferring more TR, trying some ports options. And also leave you open, trying a combination of all them.

Since it sound like you have only one shot at-it, I suggest you read this Guide;
Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Part of this Guide;
VIII-A: Sealed Versus Ported Subwoofers:
VIII-C: Selecting Single Versus Multiple Subwoofers:
While long to read, it is very well written. And full of useful information's


Darth
Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Oh i thought the DD12 came after the SPL 1200R. As for "hit in the face bass" i agree with Darth,,,, interpretation of "that" can mean different things. Chest slam happens between 50/100Hz (approx). In your face ULF will be where the PB16 shines so i hope your clear on what you want. Not saying the PB wont be good in midbass too but other subs will have an advantage there, or like Darth said check out Mthomas47's thread on cascading X-overs combined with different port options should give you all you want.



Perhaps I wasn't too clear with my wording. From what ive experienced with the Velodyne, 50hz and below is what gives me the 'happy in the pants' feeling so it sounds like the PB16 will be for me. Now that i think about it, you're right. I prefer the deep floor rumble than the 'chest slam', Unfortunately I dont think i can be too picky here in NZ, and the SVS may be the best option regardless.



I'll read all of those articles thoroughly in the next day or so and come back with questions, if thats okay!


As a reference, this is essentially a catalog of whats available to me


https://www.rapalloav.co.nz/product-...rby=price-desc
https://www.listeningpost.co.nz/Prod...27756__C.27285
https://paulmoney.co.nz/product-cate...rby=price-desc


the market has really thinned here, and it seems the SVS is the only "king" around here . However i obviously have a lot of reading to do in the meantime
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Based on your last post i think the PB16 will surpass your ULF expectations. As i said it would easily take three of you Velodyne's likely more to equal one PB16 under 40Hz.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Hi all,

I'm considering purchasing an SVS PB16 ULTRA for my lounge setup.

Currently I'm running a Velodyne SPL-1200 Ultra, and want some more low-end
Ironically, my supervisor upgraded from that same Velodyne to that SVS PB16 Ultra and he LOVES IT!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Based on your last post i think the PB16 will surpass your ULF expectations. As i said it would easily take three of you Velodyne's likely more to equal one PB16 under 40Hz.
That statement alone almost satisfys my desire, but I shall read a lot first and demo it in store. I've had my velodyne for a little over 6 years and the itch is real!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperFist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Hi all,

I'm considering purchasing an SVS PB16 ULTRA for my lounge setup.

Currently I'm running a Velodyne SPL-1200 Ultra, and want some more low-end
Ironically, my supervisor upgraded from that same Velodyne to that SVS PB16 Ultra and he LOVES IT!
What are the chances! I think I may even be scared to turn it up &#x1f62e;
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Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Given my current lounge isn't very large, is the PB16 still going to sound okay? I'm concerned about it not having room correction like my Velodyne. But perhaps I can borrow an spl meter and do some tuning myself.
The room correction on the Velodyne is useless. Great subs, but that feature is not something worth concerning yourself over. I have two SPL-1000 Ultras and in neither location in my room does the auto-EQ make any difference of note measuring before and after at my listening position (in contrast to my AVR's very effective Audyssey XT32).
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I'd also consider contacting Peter at DeepHz, he's the Australian distributor for PSA and sells to NZ. He is the BEST!!!! (yes literally THE best lol)

http://www.deephzaudio.com/Power%20S...ex%20Page.html

The SVS PB16U really is an awesome sub, in PSA's range (for less $$) you could get a Triax or T18 or dual S1500's or V1500's (for MUCH less $$$) , so just something else to consider

Jamie
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post #17 of 41 Old 10-22-2019, 03:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Masters View Post

The room correction on the Velodyne is useless. Great subs, but that feature is not something worth concerning yourself over. I have two SPL-1000 Ultras and in neither location in my room does the auto-EQ make any difference of note measuring before and after at my listening position (in contrast to my AVR's very effective Audyssey XT32).
Interesting, I found it fairly effective.. But I am a rookie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
I'd also consider contacting Peter at DeepHz, he's the Australian distributor for PSA and sells to NZ. He is the BEST!!!! (yes literally THE best lol)

http://www.deephzaudio.com/Power%20S...ex%20Page.html

The SVS PB16U really is an awesome sub, in PSA's range (for less $$) you could get a Triax or T18 or dual S1500's or V1500's (for MUCH less $$$) , so just something else to consider

Jamie
The price of the PB16U is the same price in NZ as the Triax in Australia, so I imagine it'd vs even more as a sale here, however I'll keep it in mind &#x1f642;
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Based on your last post i think the PB16 will surpass your ULF expectations. As i said it would easily take three of you Velodyne's likely more to equal one PB16 under 40Hz.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperFist View Post
Ironically, my supervisor upgraded from that same Velodyne to that SVS PB16 Ultra and he LOVES IT!
Thanks for confirming that for the OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Perhaps I wasn't too clear with my wording. From what ive experienced with the Velodyne, 50hz and below is what gives me the 'happy in the pants' feeling so it sounds like the PB16 will be for me. Now that i think about it, you're right. I prefer the deep floor rumble than the 'chest slam', Unfortunately I dont think i can be too picky here in NZ, and the SVS may be the best option regardless.

I'll read all of those articles thoroughly in the next day or so and come back with questions, if thats okay!
Since you prefer deep bass more than the punch in your chest. I agree with @indebtbassfreak that the PB16-Ultra should work very well for you
That said, experimenting with Cascading Crossover, could offer you the best of both words. It only take 5-10 minutes to try, and if you are one of the few that do like the results. It take another 5-10 minutes to reverse those settings.

This forum is here to learn, or pass knowledge that one have learn. So ask away
The PB16 is a very expensive sub, the more knowledge you acquire about-it. The better.
A few members do own that sub on the Guide, and may/will give you answers.


Darth
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post #19 of 41 Old 10-22-2019, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
I want to be hit in the face with bass
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Can you elaborate on this one?
Some prefer more TR (feeling the bass), while some others prefer the slam in your chest (more like stronger, mid bass) as I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Perhaps I wasn't too clear with my wording. From what ive experienced with the Velodyne, 50hz and below is what gives me the 'happy in the pants' feeling so it sounds like the PB16 will be for me. Now that i think about it, you're right. I prefer the deep floor rumble than the 'chest slam', Unfortunately I dont think i can be too picky here in NZ, and the SVS may be the best option regardless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
I'd also consider contacting Peter at DeepHz, he's the Australian distributor for PSA and sells to NZ. He is the BEST!!!! (yes literally THE best lol)

http://www.deephzaudio.com/Power%20S...ex%20Page.html

The SVS PB16U really is an awesome sub, in PSA's range (for less $$) you could get a Triax or T18 or dual S1500's or V1500's (for MUCH less $$$) , so just something else to consider

Jamie
Hi Jamie,

The first two quotes (5 & 9) are only part of previous post on this thread, while the third (11) one was the OP answer.
Since the OP prefer deeper bass, where SVS is very strong. I think the PB16 is the answer for this OP.
That said, if he would have answer the chest slam was more important to him. I think the PSA would have been more what it need


Darth
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post #20 of 41 Old 10-22-2019, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Hi Jamie,

The first two quote are only part of previous post on this thread, while the third one was the OP answer.
Since the OP prefer deeper bass, where SVS is very strong. I think the PB16 is the answer for this OP.
That said, if he would have answer the chest slam was more important to him.

Funnily enough i was discussing it with my partner last night, she told me she prefers the 'chest slam', however I'm guessing the 50-100hz impact from the PB16-U would be equal to if not more than my Velodyne 1200U anyway.


plus hey, i rule :P
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post #21 of 41 Old 10-22-2019, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Funnily enough i was discussing it with my partner last night, she told me she prefers the 'chest slam', however I'm guessing the 50-100hz impact from the PB16-U would be equal to if not more than my Velodyne 1200U anyway.

plus hey, i rule :P
The PB16 will serve you well
So try the Cascading Crossover, and you both have the best

And for "I rule", sorry to break your bubble. But at the end, a woman always get what she want. In the long run, and I should know. Since, I have been married over 30 years


Darth
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post #22 of 41 Old 10-22-2019, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Hi Jamie,

The first two quotes (5 & 9) are only part of previous post on this thread, while the third (11) one was the OP answer.
Since the OP prefer deeper bass, where SVS is very strong. I think the PB16 is the answer for this OP.
That said, if he would have answer the chest slam was more important to him. I think the PSA would have been more what it need


Darth
A Triax or T18 would still have plenty of floor rumble/deep bass and soooooooooo much more bass above 30-40hz that I think quite a few people would nprobably choose the Triax/T18 over a PB16 if they actually got a chance to listen to them.

Don't get me wrong,the PB16 is a great sub, but you could get a sub with 3x beefy 15" drivers, in gorgeous real wood veneer (cordovan cherry or espresso) with a Speaker-Power 6000w Torpedo amp for around the same price- no brainer for me

That said some people do prefer ported over sealed, and both of these would of so much more output under 30Hz compared to his old sub that either would be mind blowing I'm sure

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post #23 of 41 Old 10-23-2019, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Funnily enough i was discussing it with my partner last night, she told me she prefers the 'chest slam', however I'm guessing the 50-100hz impact from the PB16-U would be equal to if not more than my Velodyne 1200U anyway.

plus hey, i rule :P

Hi,

I like your attitude!

Several people have already given you very good advice, and you have more than one really good choice available to you. Ideally, you will be able to audition a PB16, and perhaps a Triax, before making a final selection. There is one aspect of the discussion that I think is worth emphasizing, though. The low rumbling sounds and sensations that you referred to are much easier for a large ported subwoofer to produce than they are for an even larger sealed sub.

It is important to distinguish between low-bass SPL and low-bass tactile response (TR). We actually hear and feel those sounds and sensations, for frequencies under about 30Hz, in a way that is difficult to distinguish. But, the low-bass sounds and sensations are caused by slightly different things and that is a distinction that it is helpful to understand.

TR is caused by a combination of SPL, at the right frequencies, and by particle velocity. Particle velocity (literally air particles moving, rather than sound waves moving through the medium of the air) are caused by the forward and backward movement of the drivers in a sub, and from the action of the ports, within about an octave of their port tune.

A relatively low-tuned subwoofer, when played at a loud volume level, will not only generate more low-bass SPL, it will literally displace even more air than a larger sealed sub can due to the action of the ports. And, it will typically create much more of those rumbling or thudding sensations that we feel as a result.

Coming from a sealed subwoofer, I have a feeling (pun intended) that you will like those low-bass sensations a lot. This is something that you really need to experience for yourself, if you can arrange to audition a PB16. The logistics may be difficult or impossible, but ideally that audition would take place in your own room.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 10-23-2019 at 04:30 AM.
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post #24 of 41 Old 10-23-2019, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post

The PB16 will serve you well
And for "I rule", sorry to break your bubble. But at the end, a woman always get what she want. In the long run, and I should know. Since, I have been married over 30 years[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]


Darth
Hey Darth,

I'm lucky, I can do what I want in the lounge, and my partner is happy with having the spare bedroom setup as her library, and the gardens are also hers. I think I've found a keeper!

Daryl

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post

A Triax or T18 would still have plenty of floor rumble/deep bass and soooooooooo much more bass above 30-40hz that I think quite a few people would nprobably choose the Triax/T18 over a PB16 if they actually got a chance to listen to them.

Don't get me wrong,the PB16 is a great sub, but you could get a sub with 3x beefy 15" drivers, in gorgeous real wood veneer (cordovan cherry or espresso) with a Speaker-Power 6000w Torpedo amp for around the same price- no brainer for me

That said some people do prefer ported over sealed, and both of these would of so much more output under 30Hz compared to his old sub that either would be mind blowing I'm sure
Unfortunately there's no way for me to demo the triax &#x1f61e; and to be honest the shape of the PB16-U is more suited to my room.. It does give me food for thought though and I appreciate that &#x1f642;


Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post

plus hey, i rule &#x1f61b; [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Hi,

I like your attitude! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]

Several people have already given you very good advice, and you have more than one really good choice available to you. Ideally, you will be able to audition a PB16, and perhaps a Triax, before making a final selection. There is one aspect of the discussion that I think is worth emphasizing, though. The low rumbling sounds and sensations that you referred to are much easier for a large ported subwoofer to produce than they are for an even larger sealed sub.

It is important to distinguish between low-bass SPL and low-bass tactile response (TR). We actually hear and feel those sounds and sensations, for frequencies under about 30Hz, in a way that is difficult to distinguish. But, the low-bass sounds and sensations are caused by slightly different things and that is a distinction that it is helpful to understand.

TR is caused by a combination of SPL, at the right frequencies, and by particle velocity. Particle velocity (literally air particles moving, rather than sound waves moving through the medium of the air) are caused by the forward and backward movement of the drivers in a sub, and from the action of the ports, within about an octave of their port tune.

A relatively low-tuned subwoofer, when played at a loud volume level, will not only generate more low-bass SPL, it will literally displace even more air than a larger sealed sub can due to the action of the ports. And, it will typically create much more of those rumbling or thudding sensations that we feel as a result.

Coming from a sealed subwoofer, I have a feeling (pun intended) that you will like those low-bass sensations a lot. This is something that you really need to experience for yourself, if you can arrange to audition a PB16. The logistics may be difficult or impossible, but ideally that audition would take place in your own room.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike,

This helps a lot!! I'm working my way through suggested reading on here and your explanation of how TR is created was perfect. I really appreciate the time you've taken to explain that to me &#x1f642;

My local store is getting me in a PB16-U to demo... There's only one left in the country and thankfully its the Piano Gloss Black which is my preference... Its like it's meant to be!

It may get here on Friday in which case I'll check it out in the weekend, latest will be Wednesday next week.. I'm excited to say the least.

Daryl

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I have the SB 16 Ultra and it is a BEAST. The PB 16 U gets you the best of both worlds. You can basically get SB and the PB in one box. Sealed for music and ported for movies. If you have the room, I say go for it! It is really big though. The piano gloss finish is beautiful. I highly recommend the isolation feet.
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post #26 of 41 Old 10-23-2019, 07:07 PM
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Hey Darth,

I'm lucky, I can do what I want in the lounge, and my partner is happy with having the spare bedroom setup as her library, and the gardens are also hers. I think I've found a keeper!

Daryl
Hi Daryl,

Sure sound like She is a keeper
I know mine is

Did told you, at the end. A woman always get what She want


Darth
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post #27 of 41 Old 10-23-2019, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I have the SB 16 Ultra and it is a BEAST. The PB 16 U gets you the best of both worlds. You can basically get SB and the PB in one box. Sealed for music and ported for movies. If you have the room, I say go for it! It is really big though. The piano gloss finish is beautiful. I highly recommend the isolation feet.
Any reason you reccomend the isolation feet? I need to do more reading but from what I understand having them will cut bass floor impact. As less bass energy will be transferred into the floors / walls, it's more likely to raise the bass 'impact' so it's felt more?

I'm sure there's a tradeoff

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Hey Darth,

I'm lucky, I can do what I want in the lounge, and my partner is happy with having the spare bedroom setup as her library, and the gardens are also hers. I think I've found a keeper!

Daryl
Hi Daryl,

Sure sound like She is a keeper[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I know mine is[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Did told you, at the end. A woman always get what She want[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]


Darth
Hey Darth,


I've literally watched and read every review I can find on the beast.. Needless to say I get more and more excited by the day. With some luck I'll get a call tomorrow!! If not I'll be waiting until next week. I'd love to bring it home by the weekend &#x2764;&#xfe0f;

I've still lots of reading to do, especially in relating to tuning.. I may need to take a week off work &#x1f914;

Daryl
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post #28 of 41 Old 10-24-2019, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryIII View Post
I have the SB 16 Ultra and it is a BEAST. The PB 16 U gets you the best of both worlds. You can basically get SB and the PB in one box. Sealed for music and ported for movies. If you have the room, I say go for it! It is really big though. The piano gloss finish is beautiful. I highly recommend the isolation feet.
Any reason you reccomend the isolation feet? I need to do more reading but from what I understand having them will cut bass floor impact. As less bass energy will be transferred into the floors / walls, it's more likely to raise the bass 'impact' so it's felt more?

I'm sure there's a tradeoff

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperZ View Post
Hey Darth,

I'm lucky, I can do what I want in the lounge, and my partner is happy with having the spare bedroom setup as her library, and the gardens are also hers. I think I've found a keeper!

Daryl
Hi Daryl,

Sure sound like She is a keeper[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I know mine is[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Did told you, at the end. A woman always get what She want[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]


Darth
Hey Darth,


I've literally watched and read every review I can find on the beast.. Needless to say I get more and more excited by the day. With some luck I'll get a call tomorrow!! If not I'll be waiting until next week. I'd love to bring it home by the weekend &#x2764;&#xfe0f;

I've still lots of reading to do, especially in relating to tuning.. I may need to take a week off work &#x1f914;

Daryl
When I was in my old house, I had twin SVS cylinder subs. After a movie I would have to go around the room and adjust the art on the walls. I also could not stand that things in the room would rattle. When I got the isolation feet it cured all of this. I was just left with clean bass without any rattle or adjusting needed. It sounded better to me. I have been a fan since. YMMV.
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post #29 of 41 Old 10-24-2019, 07:50 AM
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Any reason you reccomend the isolation feet? I need to do more reading but from what I understand having them will cut bass floor impact. As less bass energy will be transferred into the floors / walls, it's more likely to raise the bass 'impact' so it's felt more?

I'm sure there's a tradeoff

Daryl

Hi Daryl,

The isolation feet are intended to decouple the subwoofer from the floor, in order to reduce unwanted vibrations. If you are on a suspended wood floor, you may or may not wish to use them. Some people like as much transferred energy as possible, and some don't. You can always wait to see if you need them, and add them later if necessary.

Wood floors, which are elevated over a crawl space, or on an upper level, resonate from low-bass frequencies. And they transfer those vibrations to other objects in the room, including our listening chairs. That can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the specific room and the individual preference. For instance, some people prefer to retain as much transferred energy as possible and to remediate any rattles at the source of the rattle.

Concrete floors, laid on top of soil, don't often create rattles regardless of whether they are covered with tile or carpet. And, when they do it is probably caused by close proximity to a wall rather than from floor transmission. The floor itself is inert, and doesn't resonate much at all, and it doesn't transfer vibrations well to other parts of the room, or to other objects in the room. Therefore, decoupling the subwoofer from the floor is not required. Isolation feet don't really do anything at all on a concrete floor, laid on packed soil.

The isolation feet actually make it harder to slide the heavy subwoofers around on the floor, unlike the cylinder models which can be tilted slightly and rolled into different positions. I wouldn't add the isolation feet (or an acoustic pad, which serves the same purpose) unless you discover that you need that for unwanted vibrations.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I decided to add something else just for the sake of completeness. Subwoofers can sometimes slide a little bit on smooth, polished surfaces, at high volume levels. And, some people add isolation feet, or use an acoustic pad, to prevent that. But, a thick piece of carpet padding can accomplish the same purpose, at a fraction of the cost. Isolation feet, or isolation pads, are actually designed to decouple speakers and subs from the floor, in order to reduce transferred vibrations. Issues involving subs sliding on polished surfaces can be dealt with much less expensively.
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 10-24-2019 at 09:04 AM.
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post #30 of 41 Old 10-24-2019, 07:02 PM
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Hey Darth,

I've literally watched and read every review I can find on the beast.. Needless to say I get more and more excited by the day. With some luck I'll get a call tomorrow!! If not I'll be waiting until next week. I'd love to bring it home by the weekend &#x2764;&#xfe0f;

I've still lots of reading to do, especially in relating to tuning.. I may need to take a week off work &#x1f914;

Daryl
Hi Daryl,

For the bold sentence, is that mean you bought-it and waiting for delivery?
Or still waiting to demo the PB16. If so, I would not wait until next week. Since in a previous post, you mention that there was only one left in New Zealand!!!


Darth

Last edited by darthray; 10-24-2019 at 07:07 PM.
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