Comparing JTR Captivator 4000ULF and Rythmik FV25HP - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 580Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 08:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,511
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
VibSensor graphs
Again, good stuffs.
I put the two Vibsensor graphs side by side for easier comparison. What stands out is that the 4000ulf has more front and back TR movement (Z blue graph) especially at 10Hz, the X and Y (side to side and up and down) movements are about the same between the two subs. What this means is that the 4000ULF is going to push you back and forth more and with stronger wind making it 3D ride like - exactly what @serith has been looking for

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.PNG
Views:	127
Size:	290.6 KB
ID:	2633616  
serith likes this.

Last edited by tvuong; 10-29-2019 at 08:54 AM.
tvuong is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 11:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,506
Mentioned: 397 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1349 Post(s)
Liked: 4462
^^^ Well actually, Z = Up and down, and Y = front to back and X is side to side (with phone facing forward (long ways) in the seat). If phone is sideways, X and Y axis would swap.

Great stuff here @chucky7 and Ray’s thread as well. Since I’ve owned and loved a Rythmik FV15HP and a Cap 2400 (the cap 4000 Beast wasn't available at the time), the differences have always intrigued me. Although my Rythmik is a FV15HP and not a FV25, my impressions compared to the 2400 pretty much echo what Tony said a couple posts back and in Rays thread for characteristics of sound sig (even Audy chirps as Chucky noticed as well).

FWIW, I don’t have Seaton F18’s, but I do run 2 UM18’s in 4cuft sealed cabs (built from flatpacks), as well as 4 SI DS4-18s in 4 cuft sealed cabs from flatpacks too. The specs are very similar for these two drivers. I ran the 4 SI’s for quite a while, then added the two UM18’s later since they don’t make the DS4’s anymore. Subjective impressions on my end are that the UM18s (and DS4-18s) sound very similar to each other, at least when added to the mix. I didn’t really directly compare them each in a A/B comparison, but couldn’t tell a sound diff when added to the mix. BUT I can say for sure that the Aydy chirp sounds the same on the two and very similar to the FV, with the 2400 sounding way different and not as high pitched as noted from all of you guys already.

Where I’m going with this is, from my subjective impressions of these subs in two different rooms, I find the sealed UM18s (the same drivers that the F18’s use) and the DS4-18s are kind of a combo sound sig of the FV and Cap. Full and weighty in the lower registers more like the Cap, but also a little cleaner/articulate in the upper registers/mid bass area like I found the FV to be. Which makes me very happy, because I loved both of these qualities I would have probably gone with all Rythimks or all Caps but needed 4-6 subs and a cheaper way of getting them. Fortunately, I love them, but was a bit nervous going this route, as the Caps and Rythimks are amazing subs!!

I shared some of these thoughts as well in Ray's thread a while back I believe, but thought I'd share a few impressions again for another perspective on these subs (although not the same model FV and Cap, but probably still sound very similar). Again, great stuff Chucky and nice FRs!! Pretty awesome to get to have all those subs in your room at once ...a sub lovers dream
chucky7, toddct, atabea and 3 others like this.

My 'Blacked Out' Home Theater | Tactile Response for BASS | BassEQ for Filtered Movies
1400cuft Sealed Room on Suspended Floor | SY Triple Black Velvet Blackout | GIK Treatments | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.7.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | Epson 5040UB | Eyes 6.5' to 120" 16:9 AT Seymour Screen | Oppo 203 | Xbox 1X | Apple TV4K | 6x 18" Sealed Subs w/3x VNF | Subwoofer Riser w/6x JBL-12s | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | MiniDSP 10x10HD

Last edited by SBuger; 10-29-2019 at 11:20 AM.
SBuger is offline  
post #33 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 11:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: syracuse, ny
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 850 Post(s)
Liked: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The sound signature is another story. I immediately noticed that the FV25HP sounded different from what I am used to when I was re-running Audyssey. The subwoofer test tones were higher pitched. I noticed this again when I verified loudness with the SPL meter and tone generator in REW.
i wonder if that's because the fv25 is using 15" drivers. i noticed the same thing at my buddies house who's using a pair of ultimax 18's. he didn't have the output i did with the six 15's but the bass was much fuller/thicker.
chucky7 likes this.
serith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 11:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,511
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
^^^ Well actually, Z = Up and down, and Y = front to back and X is side to side (with phone facing forward (long ways) in the seat). If phone is sideways, X and Y axis would swap.
Thanks for correcting me Shelby. I had a feeling that I got it mixed up when I posted. So instead of pushing you back and forth, it shakes you up and down
tvuong is offline  
post #35 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 11:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,511
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
i wonder if that's because the fv25 is using 15" drivers.
It could be but I think it is probably the Aluminum drivers more than the size of the driver. Perhaps, Rythmik paper driver has fuller sound @imureh , @toddct ? @Marc Alexander ?
tvuong is offline  
post #36 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,850
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3681 Post(s)
Liked: 4933
Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
i wonder if that's because the fv25 is using 15" drivers. i noticed the same thing at my buddies house who's using a pair of ultimax 18's. he didn't have the output i did with the six 15's but the bass was much fuller/thicker.
It seems to be the quintessential sound signature of Rythmik.

The FV25HP also has the aluminum cone like the original FV18 I heard at Marc's place.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 10-29-2019 at 11:54 PM.
chucky7 is online now  
post #37 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 02:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3000 Post(s)
Liked: 3859
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
It could be but I think it is probably the Aluminum drivers more than the size of the driver. Perhaps, Rythmik paper driver has fuller sound @imureh , @toddct ? @Marc Alexander ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It seems to be the quintessential sound signature of Rythmik. The FV25HPs also have the aluminum cone like the original FV18 I heard at Marc's place.
The paper cone driver sounds quite similar to the JTR 118 driver. So yes more fuller and thicker than the aluminum. The driver in the 2400 and 4000 is different beast. Just like any sub, a lot is room dependent. As you know in mine the 118 and the paper cone rythmik sounded the best. In Todd's large open room the 2400 sounded a lot better and cleaner. The FV28 won't sound like the Cap 4000 either but would have more TR and oomph than the aluminum driver plus they would be an 18 inch driver as well.

Ray

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is offline  
post #38 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 02:34 PM
The Ultimate chest punch!
 
Adamg (Ret-Navy)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,756
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 970 Post(s)
Liked: 2132
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It seems to be the quintessential sound signature of Rythmik. The FV25HPs also have the aluminum cone like the original FV18 I heard at Marc's place.
Great job Chucky, BZ for doing all this comparison testing and measurements!
chucky7 likes this.

AdamG, ...out!
The government cannot give to anybody,
anything that the government does not first,
take from somebody else.
Adamg (Ret-Navy) is offline  
post #39 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 02:38 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,744
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5659 Post(s)
Liked: 5229
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The sound signature is another story. I immediately noticed that the FV25HP sounded different from what I am used to when I was re-running Audyssey. The subwoofer test tones were higher pitched. I noticed this again when I verified loudness with the SPL meter and tone generator in REW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
i wonder if that's because the fv25 is using 15" drivers. i noticed the same thing at my buddies house who's using a pair of ultimax 18's. he didn't have the output i did with the six 15's but the bass was much fuller/thicker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It seems to be the quintessential sound signature of Rythmik. The FV25HPs also have the aluminum cone like the original FV18 I heard at Marc's place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
The paper cone driver sounds quite similar to the JTR 118 driver. So yes more fuller and thicker than the aluminum. The driver in the 2400 and 4000 is different beast. Just like any sub, a lot is room dependent. As you know in mine the 118 and the paper cone rythmik sounded the best. In Todd's large open room the 2400 sounded a lot better and cleaner. The FV28 won't sound like the Cap 4000 either but would have more TR and oomph than the aluminum driver plus they would be an 18 inch driver as well.
I agree with Ray, the FV28 will still sound more Rythmik than Cap 4000. I contend that the Direct Servo is the biggest factor in regards to the "Rythmik sound". For TR and comparison LOW damping should be used.

I believe driver excursion also affects TR. I believe the excursion of the UM18 driver is underrated and potentially greater than the Rythmik 18s at certain output/frequency. @Mark Seaton ?

@chucky7 , I would like to come over and take some measurements while you have these. I would like to look at the FFTs and waterfalls/spectrograms of the Audyssey tones that seems to differ (as well as some other things).

Last time I spoke to @Rythmik I believe we determined a way to get a Rythmik to sound/feel closer to other ported subs... that would be by disconnecting the servo (not recommended).
chucky7 and imureh like this.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #40 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 02:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3000 Post(s)
Liked: 3859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post













I agree with Ray, the FV28 will still sound more Rythmik than Cap 4000. I contend that the Direct Servo is the biggest factor in regards to the "Rythmik sound". For TR and comparison LOW damping should be used.



I believe driver excursion also affects TR. I believe the excursion of the UM18 driver is underrated and potentially greater than the Rythmik 18s at certain output/frequency. @Mark Seaton ?



@chucky7 , I would like to come over and take some measurements while you have these. I would like to look at the FFTs and waterfalls/spectrograms of the Audyssey tones that seems to differ (as well as some other things).



Last time I spoke to @Rythmik I believe we determined a way to get a Rythmik to sound/feel closer to other ported subs... that would be by disconnecting the servo (not recommended).


Bingo Marc. That would be awesome if you could make it there too. What you have stated about driver excursion is true I think and could also be why that driver sounded like it did in my room and why the lower excursion drivers sounded cleaner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is offline  
post #41 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 03:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,511
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

Chucky, What was the bass levels on these graphs? reference?
tvuong is offline  
post #42 of 275 Old 10-29-2019, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,850
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3681 Post(s)
Liked: 4933
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Chucky, What was the bass levels on these graphs? reference?
The VibSensor measurements were taken with MV @ -8dB.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
chucky7 is online now  
post #43 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 06:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,511
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked: 2565
^^ So bass was also at -8? You did not run subs hot?
tvuong is offline  
post #44 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,850
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3681 Post(s)
Liked: 4933
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ So bass was also at -8? You did not run subs hot?
I mentioned that that in the first 3 posts already...

Rythmik FV25HP: LFE in, Limiter On, PEQ Off, Lowpass filter @ AVR/12, Extension filter @ 12Hz low damping and Rumble filter: On.
JTR Captivator 4000ULF: Gain @ 4 clicks out of 20, LF Adjust @ 0 clicks.

I used the settings above before I reran Audyssey. Then did SBT, and added 3dB to the sub level.
Adamg (Ret-Navy) likes this.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 10-30-2019 at 12:31 PM.
chucky7 is online now  
post #45 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 09:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,511
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked: 2565
So you are at -5 below reference bass for the Vibsensor graphs then. Trying to see the TR differences between your concrete room with more powerful sub and my suspended floor with less powerful subs. Not apple to apple but at least I have some idea.
tvuong is offline  
post #46 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,850
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3681 Post(s)
Liked: 4933
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
So you are at -5 below reference bass for the Vibsensor graphs then. Trying to see the TR differences between your concrete room with more powerful sub and my suspended floor with less powerful subs. Not apple to apple but at least I have some idea.
Yeah.

As for the weight (5 lb bag of rice), I had to improvise a bit. I only have a half bag of 15 lb rice at home. I noticed that the VibSensor produced inconsistent results depending on how the bag is rested on the phone.

Therefore, I used a box of unopened Costco contact lens solutions https://www.costco.com/kirkland-sign...100301684.html + an internal 1TB HD. This ensures the combined weight of ~6.5 lbs is completely rested on my phone.
Adamg (Ret-Navy) likes this.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 10-30-2019 at 12:32 PM.
chucky7 is online now  
post #47 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 11:42 AM
Member
 
psyduck103's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunny central N.Y.
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 27
My son Serith had three FV25 subs and I thought they were incredible. I have been in this hobby since I taped of the grid of the 6AQ5 output tube on a RCA CTC15 round tube color set in 1971 and ran tv sound thru my Marantz 1060.Have built several subs over the years including JBL 2245H drivers in 8 cu ft ported enclosures.A pair of enclosures with six 12" drivers in a line source 20cu ft divided into 6 equal ported sections powered by 3 Phase Linear700B with 2 drivers on each channel about 20 years ago.Now I have built a 20cu ft ported tuned to 10hz pair with dual 18" ultimax drivers. Each weighing about 400 pounds 1" MDF doubled in places. Powered by around 3KW ea.Old school QSC RMX4050HD amps.They are not as good as the Rythmik units by a long shot. I loved the speed and make your eyes move in your skull power the Rythmik units have. He has three 4000s arriving in a month. We will see
psyduck103 is offline  
post #48 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 02:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,877
Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked: 11451
Really really nice work Chucky. It's interesting and a lot of fun to read the differences in sound signature of the three subs. All good stuff.
chucky7, darthray and Dave Ol like this.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #49 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 03:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
jsc79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Minnesota SW Metro Area
Posts: 751
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Now who can ship Chucky a TV36 ipal? Lol
serith, darthray, Dave Ol and 2 others like this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18
Speakers: L/R Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2EX - Center - Horizon w/RAAL Surrounds: Sonance VP62R SST/SUR. Vinyl:Rega Planar 3/Ascend Sierra 2
Video: Sony XBR65X900e 65" 4K - Sony UBP-X800 Blu Ray
Power and Processing: Yamaha RXA1030 - Monolith 7X Amp - Minidsp 2X4 HD/WI-DG
jsc79 is offline  
post #50 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 03:46 PM
The Ultimate chest punch!
 
Adamg (Ret-Navy)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,756
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 970 Post(s)
Liked: 2132
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Yeah.

As for the weight (5 lb bag of rice), I had to improvise a bit. I only have a half bag of 15 lb rice at home. I noticed that the VibSensor produced inconsistent results depending on how the bag is rested on the phone.

Therefore, I used a box of unopened Costco contact lens solutions https://www.costco.com/kirkland-sign...100301684.html + an internal 1TB HD. This ensures the combined weight of ~6.5 lbs is completely rested on my phone.
Chucky,

I might be mistaken but using a liquid as a weight might induce acoustic/vibration anomaly’s as the sound waves bounce around inside the container. Just a thought. I doubt it’s impact is significant but may be measurable. Therefore if you use the same container with the same amount of liquid there should be little variance for comparison purposes.

However, you may be introducing a multiplier and amplification in the Actual vibration measurement results.
chucky7 and darthray like this.

AdamG, ...out!
The government cannot give to anybody,
anything that the government does not first,
take from somebody else.
Adamg (Ret-Navy) is offline  
post #51 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 08:35 PM
Senior Member
 
rhelliott2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: NorCal
Posts: 360
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc79 View Post
Now who can ship Chucky a TV36 ipal? Lol
This guy asking the real question lol
jsc79 likes this.
rhelliott2 is offline  
post #52 of 275 Old 10-30-2019, 08:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3000 Post(s)
Liked: 3859
[QUOTE=rhelliott2;58755810]This guy asking the real question lol[/QUO

Don't think anyone who owns another brand will ever get to listen to the TV36 in their room....

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is offline  
post #53 of 275 Old 10-31-2019, 12:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Billy p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,873
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 391 Post(s)
Liked: 793
[QUOTE=imureh;58755842]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
This guy asking the real question lol[/QUO

Don't think anyone who owns another brand will ever get to listen to the TV36 in their room....
Unless he's willing... I'd agree and echo your sentiment.
jamiebosco and rhelliott2 like this.

Ascend Acoustics: Towers, STC w RAAL & 200 SE in espresso,
54" of Panny Bliss, Anthem MRX 300, Oppo 103D,
Sub: Funk Audio 18: (Santos Rosewood)
Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors but we borrow it from our children!
Billy p is offline  
post #54 of 275 Old 10-31-2019, 02:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Dave Ol's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 658
[quote=imureh;58755842]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
This guy asking the real question lol[/QUO

Don't think anyone who owns another brand will ever get to listen to the TV36 in their room....

A few of us have. I owned a JTR 2400 until I purchased a TV36 ipal. I just like the sound, improved mid bass while maintaining ULF with the TV36. However, that's my preference in my room. Others preference may vary. That being said, would love to have someone do a TV36 ipal shoot out against a JTR, Rythmik etc. to see what their thoughts are.
rhelliott2 likes this.
Dave Ol is offline  
post #55 of 275 Old 10-31-2019, 02:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3000 Post(s)
Liked: 3859
Comparing JTR Captivator 4000ULF and Rythmik FV25HP

[quote=Dave Ol;58759174]
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post


A few of us have. I owned a JTR 2400 until I purchased a TV36 ipal. I just like the sound, improved mid bass while maintaining ULF with the TV36. However, that's my preference in my room. Others preference may vary. That being said, would love to have someone do a TV36 ipal shoot out against a JTR, Rythmik etc. to see what their thoughts are.


You know what I mean. read between the lines.

I said get to listen. Hint hint.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
darthray and rhelliott2 like this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is offline  
post #56 of 275 Old 11-01-2019, 06:29 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,744
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5659 Post(s)
Liked: 5229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Spoiler!
Subwoofer signature has been of interest since I hosted a GTG in early 2017. At that time, tactile feel was the focus. Sound signature was not a consideration. At that time I assumed that a subwoofer's sound signature was a function of its amplitude response and distortion profile. However, there seems to be more to it.

I was never aware of any obvious differences in sound signatures between subs before distortion began to rise. I like to listen to burst tones in room before demo tracks as they are much safer than continuous tones (very good for finding and fixing sympatheric vibration noises). In the past I compared the PSA S3000i vs Seaton Submersive HP & F18+ and they all sounded identical at moderate levels. I also compared the Rythmik FV15HP and Monolith 15 which performed quite closely. When I compared the Rythmik FV18, JTR Cap1400 (2015) & Cap118 (2017) the focus was on decay and tactile feel.

Reading reports of a "tonal" difference with the Audyssey burst tones surprised me. I paid @chucky7 a visit Wednesday to investigate. There were indeed noticeable differences in both sound signature and tactile feel. We both percieved that the JTR dug deeper (I was using tones between 20-50Hz). However, the microphone was not revealing any significant differences. This was surprising. Vibsensor results also didn't directly correspond to the differences in tactile feel we both experienced (concrete slab). I do have an RPI but I have yet to try the new version of Viberry.

Differences were noticeable during the Audyssey bursts, REW generated tones, and demo clips of well known scenes. I expected the differences to disappear with continuous tones but they did not. I'm beginning to suspect the room(s). I have always felt that the JTRs energized a space more effectively than comparable Rythmiks. @imureh 's experienced with the JTRs seem to show that there can be too much energy.

I'm going to fire up my FV18 and Cap2400ULF and see if I percieve the same tonal difference in my large space. Then I can move them into a smaller space and observe.

More dedicated analysis and further testing will be necessary to fully unravel the why's of this. I have access to everything needed [except time] to investigate further. I just have other priorities that take precedence.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #57 of 275 Old 11-01-2019, 06:39 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,744
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5659 Post(s)
Liked: 5229
@chucky7 could you capture some slow motion videos of the FV25 and Cap4000 excursion (level matched) playing specific frequencies bursts? I.E. 20, 25, & 31.5 Hz.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #58 of 275 Old 11-01-2019, 06:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3000 Post(s)
Liked: 3859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
@chucky7 could you capture some slow motion videos of the FV25 and Cap4000 excursion (level matched) playing specific frequencies bursts? I.E. 20, 25, & 31.5 Hz.


Thanks Marc. Todd and I have been discussing and we may try and get his sub back into my room and do some detailed listening and measurements. We both are a bit wiser now. Also if they starts align we may try and get the FV28 in the same room for comparison. Then we can compare the FV18, 2400 ULF and the FV28.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is offline  
post #59 of 275 Old 11-01-2019, 07:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3000 Post(s)
Liked: 3859
Marc, you need to make a trip to Atlanta to listen to the TV36 ipals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rhelliott2 likes this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is offline  
post #60 of 275 Old 11-01-2019, 07:43 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,744
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5659 Post(s)
Liked: 5229
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Marc, you need to make a trip to Atlanta to listen to the TV36 ipals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was shooting for Thanksgiving but I will be having another surgery soon (my last… knock on wood).

Early 2020 I will be making my rounds (calibrating A/V full-time!). Houston is at the top of my list. I'll be swinging through Dallas and Austin too.
darthray, imureh and llang269 like this.
Marc Alexander is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off