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post #1 of 17 Old 11-08-2019, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Paradigm subwoofer 2000sw

Guys, I need some help with my sub, first of all Paradigm replaced my sub once already with no questions but I am having the same problem as before. I listen to my music loud, I have 2 Bryston Amp 4b3 and 95f and the problem I am having is the bass fades in and out, the bass will hit hard 1 sec and the other sec it fades, it's like the amp is crappy out, I am running Yamaha 1080 receiver and about $5000 in Audioquest speaker wires, I want to trade my sub and go with something better and harder hitting bass. Has anyone have problems with subwoofers fading in and out or if anyone had problems with Paradigm Prestige. I haven't called my stereo guy yet, I spent $45000 on my system and I can't enjoy it because my sub is fading. Please help me on what I should do or go with another manufacturer.

Thanks Ken
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post #2 of 17 Old 11-09-2019, 05:30 AM
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The problem you're describing is consistent with triggering thermal protection on the amp. The first thing I would do is make sure your placement is optimized, and you're not running the sub any hotter than you have to.


If you're sitting in the middle of the room that can be a bass null as well. If you walk around the room does the bass get stronger or fade in spots, and how do these levels compare with where you usually listen? You can also try the sub crawl method to try to find a better spot if that's indicated.
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post #3 of 17 Old 11-09-2019, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post
The problem you're describing is consistent with triggering thermal protection on the amp. The first thing I would do is make sure your placement is optimized, and you're not running the sub any hotter than you have to.


If you're sitting in the middle of the room that can be a bass null as well. If you walk around the room does the bass get stronger or fade in spots, and how do these levels compare with where you usually listen? You can also try the sub crawl method to try to find a better spot if that's indicated.
Thanks for responding I really appreciate it, so my sub is beside me as I am using it as a coffee table but there is nothing on it as my remotes, so I like the bass heavy and it will hit hard then after a bit she starts to fade in and out so moving the sub in another spot will still get the fading, it shouldn't be hitting hard then all of a sudden it starts lose its power after a bit of hard listening, you mention about it getting hot well it's in the basement where it's not that hot, have you heard anything about paradigm subs fading in and out at all?

Thanks Ken
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post #4 of 17 Old 11-09-2019, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennygiroux View Post
Thanks for responding I really appreciate it, so my sub is beside me as I am using it as a coffee table but there is nothing on it as my remotes, so I like the bass heavy and it will hit hard then after a bit she starts to fade in and out so moving the sub in another spot will still get the fading, it shouldn't be hitting hard then all of a sudden it starts lose its power after a bit of hard listening, you mention about it getting hot well it's in the basement where it's not that hot, have you heard anything about paradigm subs fading in and out at all?

Thanks Ken

Your sub has protection circuitry built into it to prevent either amp or driver damage, depending on the implementation it can cause output to be reduced or cut out altogether. It would be triggered by pushing the sub either beyond it's limits, or very close for an extended period of time. Since you've observed this behavior with two different units I would bet that the issue is a result of this feature and not a defect.


In this case step one is to make sure you're getting all of the output you can with the sub you have and that starts with good placement. If you have the sub optimally placed and it's still not enough, you might consider adding a second.


The sound waves your sub is producing are interacting with the room boundaries which will generally cause either reinforcement (increased output) or cancellations (decreased output or nulls) at any given listening position, and that can vary by frequency. Nulls can be quite significant, resulting in a loss of 20db of volume in extreme cases. If the listener doesn't realize they're in a null they will boost the sub volume to compensate and inadvertently drive the sub excessively even though it may not sound too loud to them.


I would suggest at a minimum getting a free spl meter app on your phone and experimenting with different positions and measuring the output you're getting. That would be best done by turning off the speakers and listening to the sub alone. In most rooms a sub like yours should be able to produce 105-110 db of volume for an indefinite period of time across the music bandwidth. If that's not happening you should try alternate placements, or even changing the driver direction in the same spot. If you're getting that much volume and it's not sufficient for you, a second sub can add up to an additional 6 db of output.
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post #5 of 17 Old 11-09-2019, 11:15 AM
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To add to the excellent above post,,,, Been in the basement are you on concrete? Concrete will eat bass and will require much more output than a floating floor. I'm surprised that you would have that kind of money invested in a system and have not taken the time to measure whats going on. A quality mic and free REW download will tell you whats going on. Concrete/Nulls/ or bass expectations will determine if you need more woofage!!!

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post #6 of 17 Old 11-09-2019, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
To add to the excellent above post,,,, Been in the basement are you on concrete? Concrete will eat bass and will require much more output than a floating floor. I'm surprised that you would have that kind of money invested in a system and have not taken the time to measure whats going on. A quality mic and free REW download will tell you whats going on. Concrete/Nulls/ or bass expectations will determine if you need more woofage!!!
Sorry but what's a REW download and yes I am on cement but I do have the floor done with foam and plank flooring, laminate flooring that is. I am mad at myself because I should of built a listening room because my basement is wide and long plus it's shaped like a L . I am thinking on getting rid of my 95f for Goldenear Reference but it's $10000 just for the 2 front speaker, I love my hard hitting bass but I might need to go to a bigger sub. I am running the Paradigm Prestige sw2000 and I want more then 2000watts. Maybe I am crazy for listening to loud stereo. What sub do you think I should go with $7500 Is my max I would go, I did get a good price on my sub it midnight cherry 4200 tax in, Canadian dollars.
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post #7 of 17 Old 11-09-2019, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennygiroux View Post
Sorry but what's a REW download and yes I am on cement but I do have the floor done with foam and plank flooring, laminate flooring that is. I am mad at myself because I should of built a listening room because my basement is wide and long plus it's shaped like a L . I am thinking on getting rid of my 95f for Goldenear Reference but it's $10000 just for the 2 front speaker, I love my hard hitting bass but I might need to go to a bigger sub. I am running the Paradigm Prestige sw2000 and I want more then 2000watts. Maybe I am crazy for listening to loud stereo. What sub do you think I should go with $7500 Is my max I would go, I did get a good price on my sub it midnight cherry 4200 tax in, Canadian dollars.

Hi Ken,

It's not about the watts. You have a 15" sealed subwoofer, in a relatively small enclosure. And, it just isn't going to give you a great deal of SPL or tactile response. If you have the subwoofer right next to you, and it still can't do much, then I think that the sub is deficient for your listening levels. And, that really isn't surprising, given the size and specs.

As Joe mentioned, since you are on a concrete floor, laid on soil, you won't be getting as much low-frequency tactile response (vibration) from your floor, as you would be on an upper floor. The laminate won't make any appreciable difference with that. I recommend a large ported subwoofer. (Ported subwoofers can produce a lot of low-bass tactile response, which is helpful on concrete.)

There are several really large and powerful subwoofers that you could consider, and size matters when it comes to low-frequencies at high sound pressure levels. A large part of the reason that most people push their subwoofers too hard involves the pursuit of the lower-bass frequencies. Many of us want bass that we can really hear and feel at times.

Among the ones I would recommend are the JTR Cap 4000ULF, which is offered in several shapes, or the Cap 2400ULF; the PSA TV42 iPal or the TV36 iPal; or the Rythmik FV28HP or the FV25HP. Any of those subs will be within your budget, even with the exchange rate, and any of them will vastly outperform your current subwoofer. In terms of performance, it will be like comparing a Ferrari to a Camry. That's not knocking Paradigm, who makes speakers that I like. But, all of the major ID (Internet Direct) subwoofer companies are light years ahead when it comes to subwoofers.

It will probably take some research on the various owner threads to help you to decide which make and model you really want. The various subwoofers will have slightly different attributes, but you can't go wrong with any of them. It depends in part on how large you want to go. Any of the subs I listed above will be real game changers for you.

Good luck with your search and selection. You have a lot to look forward to with respect to bass!

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 11-09-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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post #8 of 17 Old 11-09-2019, 03:50 PM
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REW is a download that with a good mic will measure your subwoofers response throughout the bandwidth and you will see on the finished graph any peaks or nulls at the exact frequency their happening and by how many DB's. Now i'm been a hypocrite as i'm preaching something i have yet to do but havent as i'm very happy with my tuning already but REW will make it better if there are problem frequencies to tame or fix.

As Mike said,,,, right now based on more information (large room on concrete) and your listening habits,,, your "way" under sub'd. Get a pair of good 18"/21" ported and you will be in a whole new league!!! Make sure you are OK with the size of some of the big ported subs as they can be huge. I wouldn't concern yourself with REW until you have upgraded.

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post #9 of 17 Old 11-09-2019, 04:45 PM
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I have a question???

Where the heck can you go to get “Professional” level advice and tech support on demand, pretty much 24/7-365, for frigging FREE?

Here right at AVS Forums is where! Hot damn you guys are good!

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post #10 of 17 Old 11-10-2019, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennygiroux View Post
Maybe I am crazy for listening to loud stereo. what sub do you think I should go with $7500 Is my max I would go, I did get a good price on my sub it midnight cherry 4200 tax in, Canadian dollars.
seeing you're in Canada I would 100% recommend giving Nathan Funk a call, you may be able squeeze 2 of these in your budget with delivery https://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p13/F...o_-_18.0E.html




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post #11 of 17 Old 11-10-2019, 04:51 AM
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Or if you're limited to a single unit nearfield , get a 24" sub that is an actual "side table/coffee table" from DeepSeaSound https://www.deepseasound.com/product...r-24-subwoofer




I seriously doubt you would be engaging the limiters on this beast if run nearfield to your listening position!!
DSS can also build them in a variety of other real wood veneers like light brown,cherry and espresso maple for a slight upcharge

*EDIT* sorry didn't realize this would be well above the OPs budget after exchange rate/taxes/freight

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post #12 of 17 Old 11-10-2019, 06:17 AM
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Having a max budget of $7500 (Canadian) if thats all in with shipping and taxes would limit the OP to about $4500 US. Now the question the OP needs to decide on is,, one huge beast or two smaller singe 18" ported. For music its hard not to recommend PSA's twin ported Ipal/Neo 18"/21" for a singe very large sub. If going dual smaller subs (but still much larger than the sealed 15" he's coming from) which imo would be better in that large room for coverage,,,,a pair of Rythmik's FV-18 (paper cone) would be a strong performer and be in budget.

That been said,,, all subs mentioned in this thread will be miles ahead in output over the sealed 15".

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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Having a max budget of $7500 (Canadian) if thats all in with shipping and taxes would limit the OP to about $4500 US. Now the question the OP needs to decide on is,, one huge beast or two smaller singe 18" ported. For music its hard not to recommend PSA's twin ported Ipal/Neo 18"/21" for a singe very large sub. If going dual smaller subs (but still much larger than the sealed 15" he's coming from) which imo would be better in that large room for coverage,,,,a pair of Rythmik's FV-18 (paper cone) would be a strong performer and be in budget.

That been said,,, all subs mentioned in this thread will be miles ahead in output over the sealed 15".
Ah yes I forgot!....my Canadian brothers get shafted in exchange rate nearly as much as us Aussies!

I would still contact Nathan and see what can be done within the $7500 (Canadian) budget though
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Ah yes I forgot!....my Canadian brothers get shafted in exchange rate nearly as much as us Aussies!

I would still contact Nathan and see what can be done within the $7500 (Canadian) budget though
Lol we sure do!!! Unfortunately been in a large space on concrete, ported would be the way to go to keep up with Kennygiroux's expectations. Nathans "new" ported line starts at $7200US unfortunately. I'm sure Nathan could do a little better with a basic mat finish but i think will still be way out of his budget. Never hurts to ask though.
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Hi Ken, i see your on line,,,,,, have you given any thought as to your direction? Sorry, i didn't ask how important aesthetics are to you?
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-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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post #16 of 17 Old 11-17-2019, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Well guys my sub now has no control on the volume setting, I can put it at 0 and it's like it's stuck at 12 o'clock and you can really notice the fading in and out so now this will be the 3rd time I will be exchanging it. Am I pushing this sub to hard? I love the Prestige line and love my midnight cherry 95f's. Like I said before I am in the basement on cement in a L shape room so 2 things come to mind and I like your recommendation if I should buy another sw2000 or bring back the stereo upstairs on a hardwood floors. I like clean hard hitting bass, thanks guys for your help and recommendations.

Thanks Ken
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post #17 of 17 Old 11-18-2019, 09:49 PM
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This shouldn’t happen to a $4,000 subwoofer. I’d get them to warranty it.

Long term I think you’d be better served by a pair of sealed subwoofers. I’m not saying your pushing your current sub too hard, but as a general rule you won’t need to push a pair of subs as hard as a single sub. I’d look at a pair of SVS SB16 Ultras. At $2000 each and less in the outlet section, you could get a lot better sound for the money.
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