19ft x 17ft x vaulted 17ft ceiling open to kitchen - $5000 budget - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Question 19ft x 17ft x vaulted 17ft ceiling open to kitchen - $5000 budget

Room is 19ft wide x 17ft deep x 17ft tall vaulted. It's almost fully open to the kitchen.

I've owned SVS and Epik (Conquest) in the past. I want low bass (10-12hz) SPL. What should I go for? Guessing I should try to dual in opposing corners.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 04:50 PM
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A pair of Rythmik FV25's would do nicely in that room, meet your extension goals, and fit your budget.
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post #3 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 04:52 PM
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Having a 5500^ft space to fill for the bass, perhaps dual the new PSA TV36 or TV42 would be another option.
But might be over budget.


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post #4 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you! I've read about JTR a few years ago, is this also a possible alternative? I remember my Epik Conquest and it trying to tear my house down, I miss that feeling (basically the low hz bass).

I'm OK with extending the budget, I have a feeling I'm going to need to open up some circuit breakers (JTR looks like it can support 240V) as part of this "project".

I never looked into PSA before, yet. I have heard of Rhythmik.

Thanks!

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post #5 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
Thank you! I've read about JTR a few years ago, is this also a possible alternative? I remember my Epik Conquest and it trying to tear my house down, I miss that feeling (basically the low hz bass).

Absolutely. JTR will definitely provide that feeling with even more output. The big boys are tuned to 10 hz so they dig nice and deep.

As others have mentioned, Rythmik has some great subs and Power Sound Audio does as well with the new TV36 and TV42.
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post #6 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
Thank you! I've read about JTR a few years ago, is this also a possible alternative?
Now you're talking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
I remember my Epik Conquest and it trying to tear my house down, I miss that feeling (basically the low hz bass).
You mean like this?


Yes, a couple of the 10Hz tuned subs are what you need!

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Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
I'm OK with extending the budget, I have a feeling I'm going to need to open up some circuit breakers (JTR looks like it can support 240V) as part of this "project".
You don't need to go 240V.

For example, I have a JTR Cap 4000ULF and hopefully getting another in 2020. I only have 120V and don't think I ever need to go 240V.

Dual JTR Cap 2400s will set you back around $5,500, assuming 5% multiple discount and $400 freight.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #7 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
Thank you! I've read about JTR a few years ago, is this also a possible alternative? I remember my Epik Conquest and it trying to tear my house down, I miss that feeling (basically the low hz bass).

I'm OK with extending the budget, I have a feeling I'm going to need to open up some circuit breakers (JTR looks like it can support 240V) as part of this "project".

I never looked into PSA before, yet. I have heard of Rhythmik.

Thanks!
As other have noted, duals would be the recommendation. A pair JTR Cap 2400ULFs or Rythmik FV25HP should come in just around your budget and give you what you need. The JTR will offer more tactile response and thicker sound. If you want end game and can stretch the budget then go for dual JTR Cap 4000...
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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #8 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 06:01 PM
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I agree the JTR 2400 or 4000 would be solid options along with the PSA TV36/42 Ipal. I was going off of your 5k budget with my previous recommendation... No budget or size restraints then you might as well just narrow it down to the PSA TV42Ipal or Cap 4000.
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post #9 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, thanks! I'll research. Also, I'm kind of impatient. Are any of these going to be on a pre-order/wait list type thing? Lol.

The conquest, I used to run frequency sweeps for people (0 to 20hz), like helicopter scenes would sound like it was actually landing on top of the house. My neighbor's detached house, she's about 50ft away, she said she could tell when I was watching movies (I guess the foundation was like an earthquake) - lol.

Sounds like I need to do end-game, but I'll look at the sub sizes first and if I need to wire a new breaker just for them.

IN PROGRESS - Outdoor Theater:
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Game room:
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post #10 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
OK, thanks! I'll research. Also, I'm kind of impatient. Are any of these going to be on a pre-order/wait list type thing? Lol.



The conquest, I used to run frequency sweeps for people (0 to 20hz), like helicopter scenes would sound like it was actually landing on top of the house. My neighbor's detached house, she's about 50ft away, she said she could tell when I was watching movies (I guess the foundation was like an earthquake) - lol.



Sounds like I need to do end-game, but I'll look at the sub sizes first and if I need to wire a new breaker just for them.


The JTR will likely take about a month as Jeff custom builds them. You can buy them in different configurations allowing you placement flexibility. If you are looking for really strong low end the Cap 4000 should be it for you. Check out the JTR website to see the different configurations you can buy them in.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #11 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Now you're talking!


You mean like this?

https://youtu.be/pp3b_V-NXuI

Yes, a couple of the 10Hz tuned subs are what you need!


You don't need to go 240V.

For example, I have a JTR Cap 4000ULF and hopefully getting another in 2020. I only have 120V and don't think I ever need to go 240V.

Dual JTR Cap 2400s will set you back around $5,500, assuming 5% multiple discount and $400 freight.
Dude, that is insane! Is that really a 75” tv? That center is HUGE?

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post #12 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 07:43 PM
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Dude, that is insane! Is that really a 75” tv? That center is HUGE?
No, that was an older video, still a 55" plasma TV...

This is a more recent video with a 75" TV
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #13 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
OK, thanks! I'll research. Also, I'm kind of impatient. Are any of these going to be on a pre-order/wait list type thing? Lol.

The conquest, I used to run frequency sweeps for people (0 to 20hz), like helicopter scenes would sound like it was actually landing on top of the house. My neighbor's detached house, she's about 50ft away, she said she could tell when I was watching movies (I guess the foundation was like an earthquake) - lol.

Sounds like I need to do end-game, but I'll look at the sub sizes first and if I need to wire a new breaker just for them.
Also remember been patient, is your best allied in this Hobby
So is a lot research, for this kind of money.


Darth
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post #14 of 24 Old 11-12-2019, 08:27 PM
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No, that was an older video, still a 55" plasma TV...

This is a more recent video with a 75" TV
https://youtu.be/OIdf7vFnFpc
That is still a massive center. That place looks like a bam box! Congrats. I am stuck in 2.1 mode as I haven’t been able to mount the tv yet in the new house.

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Buy once...cry once

If you are willing to really extend the budget dual JTR Cap4000's or PSA TV42 (or TV36ipal) should be end game.

Extended a little, the JTR 2400ULF and 2400 would be great (also end game for 99%)

On budget , the Rythmik FV25HP would also be excellent

I'd also throw the new Monolith M-215 into the mix as well at $2500ea delivered
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TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon X4000 Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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post #16 of 24 Old 11-13-2019, 02:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Also remember been patient, is your best allied in this Hobby
So is a lot research, for this kind of money.


Darth
I usually like the research more than the outcome most times in projects, but right now I have thousands of dollars "outstanding" with several projects going on outside the house. It's forcing me to be more impatient than usual (rather than patient!). As a consumer, we want our dollars to turn into a product immediately, given a choice! I'm waiting months for stone/brick products, months for electricians, months for plumbers, months for gas line people, etc. Seems there are not enough employees for such booming businesses! I know in my own LLC struggles, it's because I don't trust someone else to execute at the high level of detail I do. For example, my mechanic hast lost most his hair and he works 14 hours a day. He employs just himself for at least 20 years. He can take weeks to do maintenance on my car that takes another body shop a couple days. But I know he always gets it right and is very careful with it, so that is an example of why we're OK with I.D. subwoofers - we see the care the company puts into their product. It's just the impatience of why they can't speed the process up (but I get it).

Doing a small water feature in the front yard, the HOA denied it. They now are making me wait 2 months before they can meet in person to discuss it (that 2 months is into winter, wonder if that landscaper will still do the job with 7" of snow on the ground? doubt it - lol). I say it jokingly, but again as a consumer, I want my dollar turned into product immediately. There is no time like right now, in life. When I was younger, I was more patient. I think it's opposite for most people, as they age they get more patient. For me, as I see my parents get older, I take every day less for granted than the day before.

Some of these smaller ID subwoofer companies scare me a little bit, my Conquest started tripping the AMP (and stopped turning on, even after fuse replacement) after Epik went out of business and that "investment" was kind of gone lol. I saw we could replace the amp, but felt like my Conquest was basically worth nothing after that (unsellable). So I should probably take into account how long some of these business have been around (I'm still new, haven't been back in AVS for maybe 5+ years). You know when you're gone from AVS for a while you're "happy". Although the definition of "happy" is strange, I'm also "happy" when spending a long time researching new products and getting "amped up" for them, lol.

The investment part matters a little bit, because although we're talking end-game, is there every really? Usually the subwoofer can kind of carry you there, but seems like every other equipment gets "upgraded" lol.

I really like the buy once cry once motto from above, I'm going to use it in other situations. I like to tell my team do it right the first time, if you don't plan on doing it right, don't do it at all - waste of your time, and waste of your money.

At the same time, my coworker told me something a couple years ago that you guys may have all heard before - YAGNI. You Ain't Gonna Need It. At that point, I stopped buying basically anything that wasn't related to survival! My 401K/savings grew like crazy. But it also felt like a condition, I would stop to think before I spent $20 on anything. I lived poor by keeping only a few hundred dollars in the bank and everything else was moved.

That's a different sense of happiness, I blew about $40,000 on a deck/roof this year, as sort of a reward for living that YAGNI life. I'm still at the tail end of opening up that can of worms though (where money is bleeding). It's tough to have a middleground, if you think about YAGNI too much - how on earth are we ever going to own a piece of AV equipment? Lol. This is where a wife and a budget come into play. I suppose the middleground is forcing yourself to have patience, forcing only $500/month towards a subwoofer budget/bucket and "wait it out".
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IN PROGRESS - Outdoor Theater:
Epson G7500U, Carl's Place CIH 21ft wide x 9ft screen

Game room:
Epson 5040UBE, Denon S920W, Philips BDP7501, NVidia Shield TV, PS4 Pro, SI 110"

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
Room is 19ft wide x 17ft deep x 17ft tall vaulted. It's almost fully open to the kitchen.

I've owned SVS and Epik (Conquest) in the past. I want low bass (10-12hz) SPL. What should I go for? Guessing I should try to dual in opposing corners.

Thanks!
ELmalloc
BOSS plus 4 or 6 subs to even out response should make you
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...y-theater.html
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post #18 of 24 Old 11-13-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
I usually like the research more than the outcome most times in projects, but right now I have thousands of dollars "outstanding" with several projects going on outside the house. It's forcing me to be more impatient than usual (rather than patient!). As a consumer, we want our dollars to turn into a product immediately, given a choice! I'm waiting months for stone/brick products, months for electricians, months for plumbers, months for gas line people, etc. Seems there are not enough employees for such booming businesses! I know in my own LLC struggles, it's because I don't trust someone else to execute at the high level of detail I do. For example, my mechanic hast lost most his hair and he works 14 hours a day. He employs just himself for at least 20 years. He can take weeks to do maintenance on my car that takes another body shop a couple days. But I know he always gets it right and is very careful with it, so that is an example of why we're OK with I.D. subwoofers - we see the care the company puts into their product. It's just the impatience of why they can't speed the process up (but I get it).

Doing a small water feature in the front yard, the HOA denied it. They now are making me wait 2 months before they can meet in person to discuss it (that 2 months is into winter, wonder if that landscaper will still do the job with 7" of snow on the ground? doubt it - lol). I say it jokingly, but again as a consumer, I want my dollar turned into product immediately. There is no time like right now, in life. When I was younger, I was more patient. I think it's opposite for most people, as they age they get more patient. For me, as I see my parents get older, I take every day less for granted than the day before.

Some of these smaller ID subwoofer companies scare me a little bit, my Conquest started tripping the AMP (and stopped turning on, even after fuse replacement) after Epik went out of business and that "investment" was kind of gone lol. I saw we could replace the amp, but felt like my Conquest was basically worth nothing after that (unsellable). So I should probably take into account how long some of these business have been around (I'm still new, haven't been back in AVS for maybe 5+ years). You know when you're gone from AVS for a while you're "happy". Although the definition of "happy" is strange, I'm also "happy" when spending a long time researching new products and getting "amped up" for them, lol.

The investment part matters a little bit, because although we're talking end-game, is there every really? Usually the subwoofer can kind of carry you there, but seems like every other equipment gets "upgraded" lol.

I really like the buy once cry once motto from above, I'm going to use it in other situations. I like to tell my team do it right the first time, if you don't plan on doing it right, don't do it at all - waste of your time, and waste of your money.

At the same time, my coworker told me something a couple years ago that you guys may have all heard before - YAGNI. You Ain't Gonna Need It. At that point, I stopped buying basically anything that wasn't related to survival! My 401K/savings grew like crazy. But it also felt like a condition, I would stop to think before I spent $20 on anything. I lived poor by keeping only a few hundred dollars in the bank and everything else was moved.

That's a different sense of happiness, I blew about $40,000 on a deck/roof this year, as sort of a reward for living that YAGNI life. I'm still at the tail end of opening up that can of worms though (where money is bleeding). It's tough to have a middleground, if you think about YAGNI too much - how on earth are we ever going to own a piece of AV equipment? Lol. This is where a wife and a budget come into play. I suppose the middleground is forcing yourself to have patience, forcing only $500/month towards a subwoofer budget/bucket and "wait it out".
You will have to be patient with these Flagship monster subs(cap 4000 or TV42I)...they are NOT in stock and ready to ship. You are probably 4-6weeks out on either option. I do believe the FV25HP's are in stock.
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post #19 of 24 Old 11-13-2019, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
I usually like the research more than the outcome most times in projects, but right now I have thousands of dollars "outstanding" with several projects going on outside the house. It's forcing me to be more impatient than usual (rather than patient!). As a consumer, we want our dollars to turn into a product immediately, given a choice! I'm waiting months for stone/brick products, months for electricians, months for plumbers, months for gas line people, etc. Seems there are not enough employees for such booming businesses! I know in my own LLC struggles, it's because I don't trust someone else to execute at the high level of detail I do. For example, my mechanic hast lost most his hair and he works 14 hours a day. He employs just himself for at least 20 years. He can take weeks to do maintenance on my car that takes another body shop a couple days. But I know he always gets it right and is very careful with it, so that is an example of why we're OK with I.D. subwoofers - we see the care the company puts into their product. It's just the impatience of why they can't speed the process up (but I get it).

Doing a small water feature in the front yard, the HOA denied it. They now are making me wait 2 months before they can meet in person to discuss it (that 2 months is into winter, wonder if that landscaper will still do the job with 7" of snow on the ground? doubt it - lol). I say it jokingly, but again as a consumer, I want my dollar turned into product immediately. There is no time like right now, in life. When I was younger, I was more patient. I think it's opposite for most people, as they age they get more patient. For me, as I see my parents get older, I take every day less for granted than the day before.

Some of these smaller ID subwoofer companies scare me a little bit, my Conquest started tripping the AMP (and stopped turning on, even after fuse replacement) after Epik went out of business and that "investment" was kind of gone lol. I saw we could replace the amp, but felt like my Conquest was basically worth nothing after that (unsellable). So I should probably take into account how long some of these business have been around (I'm still new, haven't been back in AVS for maybe 5+ years). You know when you're gone from AVS for a while you're "happy". Although the definition of "happy" is strange, I'm also "happy" when spending a long time researching new products and getting "amped up" for them, lol.

The investment part matters a little bit, because although we're talking end-game, is there every really? Usually the subwoofer can kind of carry you there, but seems like every other equipment gets "upgraded" lol.

I really like the buy once cry once motto from above, I'm going to use it in other situations. I like to tell my team do it right the first time, if you don't plan on doing it right, don't do it at all - waste of your time, and waste of your money.

At the same time, my coworker told me something a couple years ago that you guys may have all heard before - YAGNI. You Ain't Gonna Need It. At that point, I stopped buying basically anything that wasn't related to survival! My 401K/savings grew like crazy. But it also felt like a condition, I would stop to think before I spent $20 on anything. I lived poor by keeping only a few hundred dollars in the bank and everything else was moved.

That's a different sense of happiness, I blew about $40,000 on a deck/roof this year, as sort of a reward for living that YAGNI life. I'm still at the tail end of opening up that can of worms though (where money is bleeding). It's tough to have a middleground, if you think about YAGNI too much - how on earth are we ever going to own a piece of AV equipment? Lol. This is where a wife and a budget come into play. I suppose the middleground is forcing yourself to have patience, forcing only $500/month towards a subwoofer budget/bucket and "wait it out".
Reading this made me think of my dad. Saved everything , perfect credit , fat 401k , was forced early retired from the railroad with 30ys at 52 or 55 or so but was too young to collect his pension/retirement. He didnt want to work anymore and was happy playing weekend softball and was passing time to turn 60 and get his money. Finally turned 60 and got his money and still didnt do much of spending or anything outrageous like I thought/hoping he was going to. No biggy , figured there was plenty of time. Year and a half later he feels sick , ends up having about a month long battle with cancer and that was it. That YAGNI life is smart but at the end YCTIWY (You Cant Take It With You). Good for you treating yourself to that deck , im hoping to treat myself to a pool remodel this year!
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post #20 of 24 Old 11-13-2019, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
Reading this made me think of my dad. Saved everything , perfect credit , fat 401k , was forced early retired from the railroad with 30ys at 52 or 55 or so but was too young to collect his pension/retirement. He didnt want to work anymore and was happy playing weekend softball and was passing time to turn 60 and get his money. Finally turned 60 and got his money and still didnt do much of spending or anything outrageous like I thought/hoping he was going to. No biggy , figured there was plenty of time. Year and a half later he feels sick , ends up having about a month long battle with cancer and that was it. That YAGNI life is smart but at the end YCTIWY (You Cant Take It With You). Good for you treating yourself to that deck , im hoping to treat myself to a pool remodel this year!
Hi, I'm very sorry to hear that. Actually, it made me cry over here. I will listen to your advice!
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IN PROGRESS - Outdoor Theater:
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Hi, I'm very sorry to hear that. Actually, it made me cry over here. I will listen to your advice!
Thank you. I am sure you will end up enjoying any of the subs others have listed above! Looking forward to reading your decision!
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post #22 of 24 Old 11-13-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

Some of these smaller ID subwoofer companies scare me a little bit, my Conquest started tripping the AMP (and stopped turning on, even after fuse replacement) after Epik went out of business and that "investment" was kind of gone lol. I saw we could replace the amp, but felt like my Conquest was basically worth nothing after that (unsellable). So I should probably take into account how long some of these business have been around (I'm still new, haven't been back in AVS for maybe 5+ years). You know when you're gone from AVS for a while you're "happy". Although the definition of "happy" is strange, I'm also "happy" when spending a long time researching new products and getting "amped up" for them, lol.
Just want to say, while some ID companies did start small. Many got very big, due to excellent products and Customer Service.
Sub wise, companies like SVS, PSA, and Rythmik offer excellent after sale Customer Service. For their excellent quality subs.
JTR also offer excellent subs, just never dealt with them personally. But positive they also have good Customer Service, and maybe other members can chime in.

All of them, offer products for many end games options. Due to different room size and the preference of bass signature, of many different buyers.

Here's some links about those four;
Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.
Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread
Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread
Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread


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Last edited by darthray; 11-13-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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post #23 of 24 Old 11-14-2019, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Just want to say, while some ID companies did start small. Many got very big, due to excellent products and Customer Service.
Sub wise, companies like SVS, PSA, and Rythmik offer excellent after sale Customer Service. For their excellent quality subs.
JTR also offer excellent subs, just never dealt with them personally. But positive they also have good Customer Service, and maybe other members can chime in.

All of them, offer products for many end games options. Due to different room size and the preference of bass signature, of many different buyers.

Here's some links about those four;
Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.
Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread
Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread
Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread


Darth
I've actually been to SVS facility in Ohio, of which I don't think is normal for customers to walk into. I needed a 5.1 setup ASAP, so I stopped in and took whatever they had - lol. I have a convertible so the drive back was weird. It was only 2.5 hours away from my house IIRC. I never tried SVS top tier subs, so I don't know how to compare, but from cursory reading it doesn't seem like people who are looking for low and loud hz go with multiple SVS subs. Since their stuff is in stock it would be "easier" for me to just order 2 ultra 16s, but I'm probably going to try one of the other manufacturers that you guys have suggested.

IN PROGRESS - Outdoor Theater:
Epson G7500U, Carl's Place CIH 21ft wide x 9ft screen

Game room:
Epson 5040UBE, Denon S920W, Philips BDP7501, NVidia Shield TV, PS4 Pro, SI 110"
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post #24 of 24 Old 11-14-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post
I've actually been to SVS facility in Ohio, of which I don't think is normal for customers to walk into. I needed a 5.1 setup ASAP, so I stopped in and took whatever they had - lol. I have a convertible so the drive back was weird. It was only 2.5 hours away from my house IIRC. I never tried SVS top tier subs, so I don't know how to compare, but from cursory reading it doesn't seem like people who are looking for low and loud hz go with multiple SVS subs. Since their stuff is in stock it would be "easier" for me to just order 2 ultra 16s, but I'm probably going to try one of the other manufacturers that you guys have suggested.
I envy you for living so close to SVS, and also saw a few post that Tom from PSA also accept visitor

I had and presently have many SVS products, two previous PB12Plus/2. That got replace with two PB13-Ultra, and was the top sub for many years.
Also added four Elevation Speakers, for Atmos duty. And never regret any of those purchases.

My PB13 are presently for sell, to be replace with two Rythmik FV18. For the lower bass, I believe SVS and JTR are the way to go.
That said, the new offerings from PSA can now compete with them easily and surpass the PB16. While the Rythmik is more of a refine sound, they are no slouch for going deep. For info, I chase mid bass to have to chest slam, while others prefer lower bass. So many choices, for so many personal preference.


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Last edited by darthray; 11-15-2019 at 06:04 PM.
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