3 PB2000, 1 PB16 Ultra, 2 Paradigm X15, 1 Monolith M215, 1 PSA V3611 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 184Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Question 3 PB2000, 1 PB16 Ultra, 2 Paradigm X15, 1 Monolith M215, 1 PSA V3611

I want to add some more bass to my system. I am currently running dual SVS PB16 Ultras. 1 is placed in my front left corner and the other is near field behind MLP. My room is 21'x17'x8', it is an open concept and is open to the rest of the house. Because of the open concept I feel like it is more difficult to get good bass in the room. I am looking for a more "extreme" bass experience. I would be willing to purchase a Minidsp to help set my subs up properly, I already have REW and UMIK. My current options are either 3 PB2000's, 1 more PB16 Ultra, 2 Paradigm X15's, 1 Monolith M215 or 1 PSA V3611 (3612). Do you think I should stay on the path of adding larger more powerful subwoofers, or should I get many smaller subwoofers like 3-6 PB200's? Selling my dual PB16 Ultras and going down another path isn't out of the question either. Keep in mind that I am Canadian. For us to get the ID subwoofers does cost significantly more. I am not interested in DIY solutions at the moment. We do have SVS retailers in Canada. For reference, 1 V3612 is about $3500-$3600 CAD to my door, 1 Monolith M215 is about $3500, 1 PB16 Ultra is about $3000, 3 PB200's is about $3000 and 2 Paradigm X15's is about $3200. My current budget is $3000-3500 CAD. Thanks in advance for all your responses and assistance.

Here is my system:
75" Samsung Q6 Qled
Denon AVR-X4400 (AVR)
Tonewinner AD -7300PA 7 Channel power amp for all floor speakers
Marantz MM7055 power amp for Atmos speakers
LCR - Klipsch RP8000's and RP504C
Side surround - Klipsch RP502S
Rear surround - Klipsch RF62 V
Atmos - Klipsch AW650
Dual SVS PB16 Ultras

**My pen won't work to write my signature, I.T is working on it!
bwieler21 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 05:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,190
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked: 1949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwieler21 View Post
....1 more PB16 Ultra....

This. ^
zorax2 and bwieler21 like this.
zeus33 is online now  
post #3 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 05:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2999 Post(s)
Liked: 3853
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwieler21 View Post
I want to add some more bass to my system. I am currently running dual SVS PB16 Ultras. 1 is placed in my front left corner and the other is near field behind MLP. My room is 21'x17'x8', it is an open concept and is open to the rest of the house. Because of the open concept I feel like it is more difficult to get good bass in the room. I am looking for a more "extreme" bass experience. I would be willing to purchase a Minidsp to help set my subs up properly, I already have REW and UMIK. My current options are either 3 PB2000's, 1 more PB16 Ultra, 2 Paradigm X15's, 1 Monolith M215 or 1 PSA V3611 (3612). Do you think I should stay on the path of adding larger more powerful subwoofers, or should I get many smaller subwoofers like 3-6 PB200's? Selling my dual PB16 Ultras and going down another path isn't out of the question either. Keep in mind that I am Canadian. For us to get the ID subwoofers does cost significantly more. I am not interested in DIY solutions at the moment. We do have SVS retailers in Canada. For reference, 1 V3612 is about $3500-$3600 CAD to my door, 1 Monolith M215 is about $3500, 1 PB16 Ultra is about $3000, 3 PB200's is about $3000 and 2 Paradigm X15's is about $3200. My current budget is $3000-3500 CAD. Thanks in advance for all your responses and assistance.



Here is my system:

75" Samsung Q6 Qled

Denon AVR-X4400 (AVR)

Tonewinner AD -7300PA 7 Channel power amp for all floor speakers

Marantz MM7055 power amp for Atmos speakers

LCR - Klipsch RP8000's and RP504C

Side surround - Klipsch RP502S

Rear surround - Klipsch RF62 V

Atmos - Klipsch AW650

Dual SVS PB16 Ultras


Most cost effective would be to add another PB16. I am not sure from your post if you are after output or TR. How loud do you listen? Those duals should have ample output so I think you are after TR which if you are on concrete would be hard to come by with just subs. You will need to look into the BOSS platform or crowsons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
zorax2 and bwieler21 like this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Most cost effective would be to add another PB16. I am not sure from your post if you are after output or TR. How loud do you listen? Those duals should have ample output so I think you are after TR which if you are on concrete would be hard to come by with just subs. You will need to look into the BOSS platform or crowsons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looking for a bit of both. I want good output and some decent tactile response. Having 1 PB16 near field to my MLP provides some impressive TR, but only for the seat it is directly behind. Having it near field costs me in the low end output overall a bit though, at least when measuring that single sub with REW. I was already leaning toward 1 more PB16, but it doesnt hurt to keep an open mind. It seems so far that 1 more PB16U is the generally agreed census.

**My pen won't work to write my signature, I.T is working on it!
bwieler21 is offline  
post #5 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 07:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
blake18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,102
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 640 Post(s)
Liked: 357
Personally, I'd look for a deal on another PB-16 Ultra, or I'd go with a Monolith 215.
bwieler21 likes this.

Lumenlab "Community driven video lab".
blake18 is online now  
post #6 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 07:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ratbuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 873 Post(s)
Liked: 1229
I'd sell the SVS subs and reset with a pair of big dual driver subs. You can probably get a pair of V3612 if you sell the current subs. It's ridiculous that the PB16 is only $500 less than a V3612.
ratbuddy is offline  
post #7 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 07:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2999 Post(s)
Liked: 3853
3 PB2000, 1 PB16 Ultra, 2 Paradigm X15, 1 Monolith M215, 1 PSA V3611

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I'd sell the SVS subs and reset with a pair of big dual driver subs. You can probably get a pair of V3612 if you sell the current subs. It's ridiculous that the PB16 is only $500 less than a V3612.


He would give up a lot in the low end with the V3612. He would need the neo or the ipals LTs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jamiebosco likes this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD

Last edited by imureh; 11-13-2019 at 07:57 PM.
imureh is online now  
post #8 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 07:56 PM
Senior Member
 
rhelliott2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: NorCal
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 374
Sell your SVS subs and get two TV36Neos
zorax2, Kothoga and bear123 like this.
rhelliott2 is online now  
post #9 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
Sell your SVS subs and get two TV36Neos
I would be looking at about $9000 CAD or more for 2 of those.

**My pen won't work to write my signature, I.T is working on it!
bwieler21 is offline  
post #10 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I'd sell the SVS subs and reset with a pair of big dual driver subs. You can probably get a pair of V3612 if you sell the current subs. It's ridiculous that the PB16 is only $500 less than a V3612.
The PB16 is no slouch, it also looks far better than most other subs. It is also a smaller enclosure, more WAF friendly. It also has the built in DSP with APP. You can't disregard all of that and call it's price ridiculous compared to the V3611, $500 cheaper is a pretty big difference. Not to mention the V3611 isnt as strong in the low end, and to get what it does have, it needs a massive enclosure. Dont get me wrong the 3611 is a great sub in its' own right as well, but it doesnt do everything great either!! I do wish there was somewhere I could hear a 3611, they are not easily found in Canada!

**My pen won't work to write my signature, I.T is working on it!
bwieler21 is offline  
post #11 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 09:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
gworrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Detroit
Posts: 840
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwieler21 View Post
The PB16 is no slouch, it also looks far better than most other subs. It is also a smaller enclosure, more WAF friendly. It also has the built in DSP with APP. You can't disregard all of that and call it's price ridiculous compared to the V3611, $500 cheaper is a pretty big difference. Not to mention the V3611 isnt as strong in the low end, and to get what it does have, it needs a massive enclosure. Dont get me wrong the 3611 is a great sub in its' own right as well, but it doesnt do everything great either!! I do wish there was somewhere I could hear a 3611, they are not easily found in Canada!
It's hard for me to imagine that a dual 18" sub is not as "strong in the low end" as a single 16" sub. What is the basis for this? The SVS would have to have over double the xmax. Unfortunately neither of them has been tested at data-bass as far as I know. It does depend greatly on the port tune.
rhelliott2 likes this.
gworrel is offline  
post #12 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 09:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2999 Post(s)
Liked: 3853
Quote:
Originally Posted by gworrel View Post
It's hard for me to imagine that a dual 18" sub is not as "strong in the low end" as a single 16" sub. What is the basis for this? The SVS would have to have over double the xmax. Unfortunately neither of them has been tested at data-bass as far as I know. It does depend greatly on the port tune.


That’s exactly what it is. The V3611 is tuned around 20hz. The PB16 tune I believe is around 13hz. I also believe the SVS driver has higher excursion than the V3611. The latter will be stronger in mid bass which is not what the OP is after.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #13 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 09:30 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,414
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 9737
Adding another PB16 is only going to net you another 3db more output best case scenario. I would only recommend adding a 3rd if you are trying to smooth the response across the seating area because the added headroom isn't a lot. It might make sense if you were just coming up short and reaching the limits of duals, where the 3rd might cover you. However it sounds like you want a bit more then that.

I would sell them and start from scratch. A pair of TV36, TV42, or Cap 4000's if you want a more extreme bass experience.
zorax2, ratbuddy and bear123 like this.
basshead81 is offline  
post #14 of 157 Old 11-13-2019, 11:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
zorax2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Adding another PB16 is only going to net you another 3db more output best case scenario. I would only recommend adding a 3rd if you are trying to smooth the response across the seating area because the added headroom isn't a lot. It might make sense if you were just coming up short and reaching the limits of duals, where the 3rd might cover you. However it sounds like you want a bit more then that.

I would sell them and start from scratch. A pair of TV36, TV42, or Cap 4000's if you want a more extreme bass experience.

Very good advice. As @basshead81 mentioned, you will primarily gain better response in your room across the seating area with a 3rd PB16 and not much extra headroom. The BOSS platform and Crowson transducers might help with your goals temporarily. I'd agree that you'll likely end up happier with a pair of TV36 Neos or iPALS, the TV42 or Cap 4000s. I've gone from PB12 Plus 2, dual PB13 Ultras, JTR Orbit Shifter LFU, dual PSA S3600 and now have dual TV42s on the way for a small theater (1,800 cubic feet) on a concrete floor. I'll never, ever test the limits of the TV42s as they would likely cause the window in the room to explode from overpressure or start cracking sheetrock which wouldn't make my wife happy. As for many of us on AVS, love of bass is a real addiction. It sounds like you're already heading down that path...
basshead81 and bwieler21 like this.

7.2.4 with Denon X4300W, ATI 2005 & 1807 Amps, Kef Reference 203 Mains, 202c Ctr, 201 Surr, Ci200RR-THX Top Rears, Q300 Frt Hts, E301 Rear Surr, Power Sound Audio PSA dual S3600i Subs,
GIK & DIY Acoustics, JVC X790/RS540 Projector, Stewart Neve 100" Screen, Panasonic Blu-Ray DMP-UB900, Xbox One X, Crowson Transducers, INSTEON, UDI ISY994i, Amazon Echo
zorax2 is offline  
post #15 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 05:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ratbuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 873 Post(s)
Liked: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
He would give up a lot in the low end with the V3612. He would need the neo or the ipals LTs
He might lose a small amount of overall output under 18ish Hz, but gain so much output above that, plus so much sound quality, the overall experience would be much, much better.
ratbuddy is offline  
post #16 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by gworrel View Post
It's hard for me to imagine that a dual 18" sub is not as "strong in the low end" as a single 16" sub. What is the basis for this? The SVS would have to have over double the xmax. Unfortunately neither of them has been tested at data-bass as far as I know. It does depend greatly on the port tune.
The PB16 does have a generous Xmax. There has been third party CEA-2010 numbers done on the PB16 by Audioholics, the link is below. Unfortunately I can't find anything third party for the PSA. I 100% agree that the 3611 has much more output in the mid bass ranges than the PB16U, again, it is $500 more and offers less feature wise and much less WAF (aesthetics). I don't know if I would even want 3 or 4 of those beasts in my room, they just take up so much space. Maybe I need to let go of my notion of trying to get somewhat smaller subwoofers to provide me the bass experience I want, it is holding me back from moving up from big boy subs to the giant boy subs.

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...r/measurements

**My pen won't work to write my signature, I.T is working on it!
bwieler21 is offline  
post #17 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
Very good advice. As @basshead81 mentioned, you will primarily gain better response in your room across the seating area with a 3rd PB16 and not much extra headroom. The BOSS platform and Crowson transducers might help with your goals temporarily. I'd agree that you'll likely end up happier with a pair of TV36 Neos or iPALS, the TV42 or Cap 4000s. I've gone from PB12 Plus 2, dual PB13 Ultras, JTR Orbit Shifter LFU, dual PSA S3600 and now have dual TV42s on the way for a small theater (1,800 cubic feet) on a concrete floor. I'll never, ever test the limits of the TV42s as they would likely cause the window in the room to explode from overpressure or start cracking sheetrock which wouldn't make my wife happy. As for many of us on AVS, love of bass is a real addiction. It sounds like you're already heading down that path...
I must admit that I am not pushing my dual PB16's close to their max. Audyssey has them in the negative DB in levels and I have the gain/volume set to -10db on the subs themselves. I am really looking for my seats to shake (without transducers) and real noticeable chest slam without having to always crank it to reference volume level. It seems that near field is the best way to accomplish this, but for some reason I lose A LOT in the low end when I measure the near field sub with REW from my MLP. Maybe it is time I sell my PB16's and try something larger with more output overall and especially in the mid bass ranges.

**My pen won't work to write my signature, I.T is working on it!
bwieler21 is offline  
post #18 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Adding another PB16 is only going to net you another 3db more output best case scenario. I would only recommend adding a 3rd if you are trying to smooth the response across the seating area because the added headroom isn't a lot. It might make sense if you were just coming up short and reaching the limits of duals, where the 3rd might cover you. However it sounds like you want a bit more then that.

I would sell them and start from scratch. A pair of TV36, TV42, or Cap 4000's if you want a more extreme bass experience.
Is there CEA-2010 numbers for the TV36 anywhere? How much can I expect to gain going to a dual TV36 over my current dual PB16? I won't say that dual Cap 4000's is completely out of the question, but even if I sell my 2 PB16's I will be over budget buying 2 of those. I am looking at almost $10000 CAD for 2 of them and that is BEFORE shipping duties and taxes. I imagine shipping will be pricey, all in all, I am probably looking at around $11500 to $12000 for dual Caps. That is just too much scratch at the moment. The TV36 is doable, but only if it will be a MASSIVE improvement over my dual PB16's, unfortunately I can't find anything on the performance of these things, would you be able to help me gauge their performance?

**My pen won't work to write my signature, I.T is working on it!
bwieler21 is offline  
post #19 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 07:21 AM
Senior Member
 
3fingerbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Three PB16 Ultras is not enough bass for a home theater? Good grief!!! You guys are making me rethink all my plans, as I have a 29x24 room in a concrete slab basement. I can enclose the room though, unlike the OP. I was thinking dual PB3000s and a PC-2000 would be enough for my room.

My thought is the M-215 is supposed to have some amazing lows, much lower than the PB 16. Youthman on YouTube just did a comparison on these two subs. I would add an M-215 and then see how it sounds. If that isn’t enough, then you can start selling subs and adding a second M-215. Selling a 150 lb PB16 is not easily done, these suggestions to just switch subs should be carefully considered, IMO.
3fingerbrown is online now  
post #20 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 07:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
gworrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Detroit
Posts: 840
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwieler21 View Post
The PB16 does have a generous Xmax. There has been third party CEA-2010 numbers done on the PB16 by Audioholics, the link is below. Unfortunately I can't find anything third party for the PSA. I 100% agree that the 3611 has much more output in the mid bass ranges than the PB16U, again, it is $500 more and offers less feature wise and much less WAF (aesthetics). I don't know if I would even want 3 or 4 of those beasts in my room, they just take up so much space. Maybe I need to let go of my notion of trying to get somewhat smaller subwoofers to provide me the bass experience I want, it is holding me back from moving up from big boy subs to the giant boy subs.

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...r/measurements
I looked for measurements for another dual 18" sub and came up with the JTR Captivator 4000ULF. The measurements at data-bass show 16dB greater output at 16Hz compared to the SVS 16, and not less than 6dB higher output at other frequencies. Extension down to 10Hz. If you want room-shaking power, this is the one to do it. It would take 2 of the SVS 16s to equal the output at most frequencies and 4 of them would not match it at 16Hz. After I wrote this, I had to go back and double check the numbers, but it's right there. https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5c1c...aca0?_k=dgzioz

I posted this before I read the comment about the Captivator 4000s above.
basshead81 and d-rail34 like this.
gworrel is offline  
post #21 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 07:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,511
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked: 2564
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
He might lose a small amount of overall output under 18ish Hz, but gain so much output above that, plus so much sound quality, the overall experience would be much, much better.
I take this as you have heard both subs? I wouldn't make such statement if I have not heard them.
jamiebosco and d-rail34 like this.
tvuong is online now  
post #22 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 07:47 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,414
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 9737
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwieler21 View Post
Is there CEA-2010 numbers for the TV36 anywhere? How much can I expect to gain going to a dual TV36 over my current dual PB16? I won't say that dual Cap 4000's is completely out of the question, but even if I sell my 2 PB16's I will be over budget buying 2 of those. I am looking at almost $10000 CAD for 2 of them and that is BEFORE shipping duties and taxes. I imagine shipping will be pricey, all in all, I am probably looking at around $11500 to $12000 for dual Caps. That is just too much scratch at the moment. The TV36 is doable, but only if it will be a MASSIVE improvement over my dual PB16's, unfortunately I can't find anything on the performance of these things, would you be able to help me gauge their performance?
No there isn't but I have general idea. The cap4000 does have published data over at data-bass.com. Basically the Cap 4000 is 7-10db stronger across the entire frequency range and extends below 10hz compared to the PB16 in 2 port extended mode. That means it would take roughly 3 PB16's stacked or mutually coupled(placed within 1/4 wave length) to match a single 4000.

Now The TV36Ipal will likely be a 2-3db less below 20hz compared to Cap 4000 but stronger above 40hz. The TV42I will likely match the Cap 4000 below 20hz.


All that being said, before you buy anything else, I would try to find the limits of your current subs first. Run them hotter for starters. If you find the bass to be a bit bloated sounding, then buy a EQ device( Mini DSP HD or use the Audyssey App if XT32 equipped) and add a +6db low shelf filter that will boost the bass starting around 30hz all the way down to the PB16's port tune. The PB16's are still very capable subs, so lets make sure you have extracted all the performance out of them first before you go spend a bunch more money. jm2c!
gworrel, mthomas47 and bwieler21 like this.
basshead81 is offline  
post #23 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3fingerbrown View Post
Three PB16 Ultras is not enough bass for a home theater? Good grief!!! You guys are making me rethink all my plans, as I have a 29x24 room in a concrete slab basement. I can enclose the room though, unlike the OP. I was thinking dual PB3000s and a PC-2000 would be enough for my room.

My thought is the M-215 is supposed to have some amazing lows, much lower than the PB 16. Youthman on YouTube just did a comparison on these two subs. I would add an M-215 and then see how it sounds. If that isn’t enough, then you can start selling subs and adding a second M-215. Selling a 150 lb PB16 is not easily done, these suggestions to just switch subs should be carefully considered, IMO.
LOL it is more than enough for most normal humans, some of us are not normal humans. We want a more extreme bass experience that a lot of people would consider too much bass. In all honesty I am not even using my 2 PB16's to their full potential, let alone if I did get a third. They are VERY powerful subs, and most people would be more than satisfied with their output. The M215 do look like they are an amazing subwoofer based off of Youthman's review. 15hz and below the PB16 can't keep up, 15hz and above they are neck and neck.

**My pen won't work to write my signature, I.T is working on it!
bwieler21 is offline  
post #24 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 07:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ratbuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 873 Post(s)
Liked: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I take this as you have heard both subs? I wouldn't make such statement if I have not heard them.
I listened to many different high end subs before settling on a pair of TV36ipal. SVS just can't compete.
GatoGoat likes this.
ratbuddy is offline  
post #25 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 08:07 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,414
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 9737
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I listened to many different high end subs before settling on a pair of TV36ipal. SVS just can't compete.
True but the V3611 and TV36 are 2 different animals with completely different sound signatures. I do know a guy that has owned V36, TV36, and Cap 2400....lets just say the latter finished last in all categories except ULF reproduction. The TV36 does it all... exceptional ULF, Mid bas punch, and ulta clean low distortion. V36 has decent ULF, but excels above 20hz with good mid bass. Cap 2400 just a bottom dwelling ULF monster that lacks some finess and midbass.

That being said all of those subs are too large for my room. My plan of attack is a JTR 1200xs for the ULF placed at my 3rd location furthest from the seats, then upgrading my (2) PSA 15v that are near field placed next to the seats to the NEO drivers. My 3rd PSA 15v might be sold or traded to help pay for the upgrades.
zorax2 and ratbuddy like this.
basshead81 is offline  
post #26 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 08:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ratbuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 873 Post(s)
Liked: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
True but the V3611 and TV36 are 2 different animals with completely different sound signatures. I do know a guy that has owned V36, TV36, and Cap 2400....lets just say the latter finished last in all categories except ULF reproduction. The TV36 does it all... exceptional ULF, Mid bas punch, and ulta clean low distortion. V36 has decent ULF, but excels above 20hz with good mid bass. Cap 2400 just a bottom dwelling ULF monster that lacks some finess and midbass.

That being said all of those subs are too large for my room. My plan of attack is a JTR 1200xs for the ULF placed at my 3rd location furthest from the seats, then upgrading my PSA 15v that are near field placed next to the seats to the NEO drivers. My 3rd PSA 15v might be sold or traded to help pay for the upgrades.
Those 1200XS are cool looking little subs. The original 2400XS looked too expensive and chuffy, but by cutting down the amp and adding the high pass filter, plus making the price only $1399, Jeff made lemonade from a lemon - kudos to him for that.


RE V3611, I don't think Tom is even making those any more. I think the whole PSA sub line has gone neo-only. I suggested V3612 to OP because I was trying to respect his budget. If he can afford TV3612 or TV36ipal, by all means, those are the way to go
zorax2, basshead81 and bwieler21 like this.
ratbuddy is offline  
post #27 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 08:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,511
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked: 2564
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwieler21 View Post
The M215 do look like they are an amazing subwoofer based off of Youthman's review. 15hz and below the PB16 can't keep up, 15hz and above they are neck and neck.
The M215 from what I have been reading seems to be a very good sub; however, I would never buy a sub based on Youthman's review. Did he test the PB16 with its lowest extension setting to make it closer to the M215 port tune?
basshead81 likes this.
tvuong is online now  
post #28 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Those 1200XS are cool looking little subs. The original 2400XS looked too expensive and chuffy, but by cutting down the amp and adding the high pass filter, plus making the price only $1399, Jeff made lemonade from a lemon - kudos to him for that.


RE V3611, I don't think Tom is even making those any more. I think the whole PSA sub line has gone neo-only. I suggested V3612 to OP because I was trying to respect his budget. If he can afford TV3612 or TV36ipal, by all means, those are the way to go
You are right, the V3611 is now the V3612 with Neo driver. Tom told me he will not be fulfilling anymore 11 series order, it will all be 12 series now. The only way dual TV36 are in my budget is if I sell my dual PB16 and use my current $3000-$3500 to pay the difference, even then it might come in a little over budget.

**My pen won't work to write my signature, I.T is working on it!
bwieler21 is offline  
post #29 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 08:21 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,414
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 9737
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Those 1200XS are cool looking little subs. The original 2400XS looked too expensive and chuffy, but by cutting down the amp and adding the high pass filter, plus making the price only $1399, Jeff made lemonade from a lemon - kudos to him for that.


RE V3611, I don't think Tom is even making those any more. I think the whole PSA sub line has gone neo-only. I suggested V3612 to OP because I was trying to respect his budget. If he can afford TV3612 or TV36ipal, by all means, those are the way to go
Agree...After the 2400XS was mentioned in JTR thread, I suggested replacing that SP amp with a lesser power ICE amp to get the price down into a more competitive range. Needless to say Jeff sold like 10 1200XS in less then 2 weeks after they were offered. Hopefully he can come up with a solution to offer a 15" sub tuned in the 12hz range for 1500.00 because that price will target a much larger customer base. Not many have the space or budget for 2500.00+ mini fridge size subs.

Yea you are right...the V3611 was still on the website as of yesterday.
basshead81 is offline  
post #30 of 157 Old 11-14-2019, 08:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,511
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked: 2564
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I listened to many different high end subs before settling on a pair of TV36ipal. SVS just can't compete.
By high end, you meant those mainstream MFRs (Rel, Wilson, JLAudio, Velodyne, Paradigm, B&W, etc...) or ID one (JTR, Hsu, Rythmik, etc...)? We all know those mainstream MFRs cannot compete (performance per dollar wise). My point is you have not heard the v36xx nor the PB16 to make such vague statement.
tvuong is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off