The Toyota Corolla of subwoofers? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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The Toyota Corolla of subwoofers?

I have a new addition, and I am planning on putting a 75" screen between those two windows in the attached photo. Between the trim (not the sills) there's about 82" of space. The entire room at that end is about 15' across. The left wall jukes out about 2' as you can see in the photo, and on the right wall there is an opening. The room extends back into the kitchen probably 35'. The seating area for the TV will be roughly 10 feet back from the wall. The entire room is obviously multipurpose, though the screen will take the focus on that end of the room of course.

I'm not going for an audiophile HT setup, not looking to win any awards... but currently I am planning on using Definitive Technology Mythos 8 / 10 for LCR, and I need to fill in the low end. I have some constraints, a lot having to do with WAF ("not too big! not too ugly! not too expensive! not too loud!"). Though the "not too loud" constraint actually, I would guess, works in favor of fulfilling the other constraints. Filling in the low end without being too obtrusive would be fine and probably (hopefully?) fit in with the loudness constraint.

I'm not sure of placement yet. Strong possibility of left or right corner, though perhaps if a wireless sub was a reasonably-priced option, behind the seating area might work if I could somehow tuck it out of the way, under a table maybe, or who knows.

If I were to get a sub that would fill in the low-end, do you have any recommendations for one that isn't too physically or sonically big, and not too expensive?
Budget-wise, given that I am looking for the Toyota Corolla of options (that will get me to my destination efficiently), I'd love not to spend too much money. How much is "too much?" My gut says over $600 is too much for a Corolla. I'd love to be closer to $400. Is that even feasible? And does the car analogy continue to work here, in that a Corolla is small, but is there a cost-effective small sub that is worth a damn?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 09:10 AM
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SVS PB-1000 - $500, shipped.
(The Monoprice Monolith 10" is also $500 and it's more-powerful and tune-able...but it's larger and less WAF-friendly.)

RSL Speedwoofer 10S - $400, shipped: Less extension but more compact and WAF-friendly.
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post #3 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 09:19 AM
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You have a ginormous room.

Multiple 15” subs would have trouble pressurizing that.

You can try the RSL Speedwoofer 10S for $400 with free return shipping but you may be sending it back sooner than you think.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #4 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 09:51 AM
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For your big bright room go big or go home! Minimum two ported 12's. Wait and see what sales the internet direct sub brands have during Thanksgiving Black Friday. Maybe you can find two for $1000 that would be a good deal. Where are you located and how does the used market look where you are?

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post #5 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
You have a ginormous room.

Multiple 15” subs would have trouble pressurizing that.

You can try the RSL Speedwoofer 10S for $400 with free return shipping but you may be sending it back sooner than you think.
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Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
For your big bright room go big or go home! Minimum two ported 12's. Wait and see what sales the internet direct sub brands have during Thanksgiving Black Friday. Maybe you can find two for $1000 that would be a good deal. Where are you located and how does the used market look where you are?

OK, hmm. So yes I have a big room, but will a smaller subwoofer (or single) subwoofer be enough to fill in the low end for the primary seating area even if it doesn't affect the far end of the room? or are you saying that even for the primary seating area, due to the overall room size, I would need two 12" minimum / multiple 15"?

And the corollary to that question, let's say I disregard your advice and, for the sake of argument, get a single 12" sub and place it near the screen. I assume it's not a question of whether it's suboptimal, but how suboptimal it is? Like, I will still hear low-end, just not as punchy or full as I would in a smaller room or with bigger / more subs? What's the effect I'll get compared to doing it "right"? Or if I can place the sub closer to the primary seating area (hide it under a table or build a endtable out of it like I've seen on this forum)?

I keep thinking to myself, if only I could test it out. But per @WLDock , perhaps I should check out the used market before I dive into a new purchase. See how a single sub works out for me without spending too much money (though I wonder how good of a used sub you can get for not too much money that still works). I'm in the Philly sububs.

Thanks for the helpful replies folks!
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post #6 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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For your big bright room go big or go home!
Oh, and I found this amusing - I'm already home! lol
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post #7 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
You have a ginormous room.

Multiple 15” subs would have trouble pressurizing that.

You can try the RSL Speedwoofer 10S for $400 with free return shipping but you may be sending it back sooner than you think.
Quoting you again - what is it about the RSL Speedwoofer 10S that makes you skeptical that it would work for my space?
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post #8 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoppa
… I keep thinking to myself, if only I could test it out. …
You can: Both SVS and RSL include shipping and return shipping in their prices.

I'd start with a PB-1000. If it works for you (and the missus), you're set. If it fails WAF, give the Speedwoofer 10S a shot.
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post #9 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 01:55 PM
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So you're in the Philly area?

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post #10 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you in Boulder? Here are some used options.

HSU VTF3. mk3 - $300
https://denver.craigslist.org/ele/d/...019714467.html

SVS PD12-NSD -$400
https://denver.craigslist.org/ele/d/...001920279.html

Rythmik Audio FV15HD -$700
https://boulder.craigslist.org/ele/d...992686186.html

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I used to be! I guess I haven't posted in AVSforum in a while... I'm in the Philly suburbs now.
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post #11 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoppa View Post
I have a new addition, and I am planning on putting a 75" screen between those two windows in the attached photo. Between the trim (not the sills) there's about 82" of space. The entire room at that end is about 15' across. The left wall jukes out about 2' as you can see in the photo, and on the right wall there is an opening. The room extends back into the kitchen probably 35'. The seating area for the TV will be roughly 10 feet back from the wall. The entire room is obviously multipurpose, though the screen will take the focus on that end of the room of course.

I'm not going for an audiophile HT setup, not looking to win any awards... but currently I am planning on using Definitive Technology Mythos 8 / 10 for LCR, and I need to fill in the low end. I have some constraints, a lot having to do with WAF ("not too big! not too ugly! not too expensive! not too loud!"). Though the "not too loud" constraint actually, I would guess, works in favor of fulfilling the other constraints. Filling in the low end without being too obtrusive would be fine and probably (hopefully?) fit in with the loudness constraint.

I'm not sure of placement yet. Strong possibility of left or right corner, though perhaps if a wireless sub was a reasonably-priced option, behind the seating area might work if I could somehow tuck it out of the way, under a table maybe, or who knows.

If I were to get a sub that would fill in the low-end, do you have any recommendations for one that isn't too physically or sonically big, and not too expensive?
Budget-wise, given that I am looking for the Toyota Corolla of options (that will get me to my destination efficiently), I'd love not to spend too much money. How much is "too much?" My gut says over $600 is too much for a Corolla. I'd love to be closer to $400. Is that even feasible? And does the car analogy continue to work here, in that a Corolla is small, but is there a cost-effective small sub that is worth a damn?

Thanks!
Go with an 82 or 85/86 for that space. No one ever regrets getting a larger screen.

A single RSL Speedwoofer will work. You'll get decent bass above 30hz at your listening position. It just won't shake you out of your seat.

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post #12 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoppa View Post
Quoting you again - what is it about the RSL Speedwoofer 10S that makes you skeptical that it would work for my space?
My room is 28’x14’ and I survived with a single sub (Paradigm PDR 100) for a few years. Bought a second one used and it made a HUGE difference. $400 new and roughly 15” cubes. Now with that being said, I’m now looking for new more powerful subs. I’d suggest finding a single good sub with plans to add a second sub later. I’m also in the Philly area. Check out WWStereo. PM me if you have any questions about WWStereo.
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post #13 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 02:04 PM
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2 x SVS PC2000 - $850
https://delaware.craigslist.org/ele/...983361322.html

Monolith 12 - $700
https://delaware.craigslist.org/ele/...021520367.html

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post #14 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 02:06 PM
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Consider the Rythmik L12. It's sealed and (relatively) small. It will not be near enough for the room (none of your choices will be), but it has good linear response, should fulfill WAF, and will do the job of filling in the lower frequencies. Since the wife does not like loud, boomy bass, this should be perfect, assuming you place it well (bass response is all about proper positioning). In addition, it has quite a few tuning options, to tailor it to the needs of your room and your speakers. Lastly, excellent customer support to help you get the most from your investment.
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post #15 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Go with an 82 or 85/86 for that space. No one ever regrets getting a larger screen.


This ^^


I had a screen between 2 windows just like the OP is proposing and then I changed it to go across slightly in front of the windows. This is now a 12' wide (155" 21:9) screen in a 14' wide room and I sit 12' from it. I regret not going larger. I should have gone completely across the windows and had a 14' wide screen.


Go AT screen and hide 2 or 3 subs behind it
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post #16 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Go with an 82 or 85/86 for that space. No one ever regrets getting a larger screen.

A single RSL Speedwoofer will work. You'll get decent bass above 30hz at your listening position. It just won't shake you out of your seat.
Dumb question, but the Speedwoofer has a wireless option. I know placement is key, but in general, would putting the sub next to the seating position make it better, or is that not really all that relevant?
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post #17 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 02:23 PM
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You just have to consider your uses and accept the trade-offs associated with them. You certainly won't pressurize that space (that's open to the rest of the house at that) with a single sub. To be honest, to really do it justice you'd need a lot more sub than your wife would want to see or you would want to pay for. In my main living room, I have a similar setup with a fairly large room 21x16 with high ceilings that's open to the rest of the house. I have an older NHT SubOne that's probably equivalent than the RSL Speedwoofer 10S. Big movie explosions are not going to wow you, you won't feel anything, but it will give the sound some added depth that wouldn't be there without a sub. Downstairs in the theater room, I have four 15's and am building two additional 18's, but I hide them behind a screen and nobody can see them. In a main living area, I understand you have to make concessions. I'd go with the Monoprice THX 10" if your wife approves, the Speedwoofer if she doesn't. Both will add some depth to your sound. That being said what about a DIY sub disguised as an end table, coffee table, or sofa table? You probably want something off the shelf, but DIY can give some fantastic results for the price.
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post #18 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 02:47 PM
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15" sealed TC Sounds custom sub and QSC pro amp

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post #19 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 03:10 PM
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Grab the Outlaw X12 while on sale for 579.00 shipped. Use it as a end table.
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post #20 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Grab the Outlaw X12 while on sale for 579.00 shipped. Use it as a end table.
Hmm - I don't see where it is on sale for that price. Where do you see it?
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post #21 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 05:42 PM
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Hmm - I don't see where it is on sale for that price. Where do you see it?
There is a button at the top of their opening page that says CURRENT PROMOTIONS
Outlaw Ultra X-12 sale: https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/laborday19.html
HSU VTF2 mk5 sale: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html


The Ultra X-12 is a pretty subwoofer!

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post #22 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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There is a button at the top of their opening page that says CURRENT PROMOTIONS
Outlaw Ultra X-12 sale: https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/laborday19.html
HSU VTF2 mk5 sale: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html


The Ultra X-12 is a pretty subwoofer!

I bet that would shake the hell out of anything you put on it! Indeed that does look nice.
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post #23 of 33 Old 11-18-2019, 07:31 PM
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So what are your thoughts on the Outlaw X12 sound wise? You’re right it is a great looking sub but how does it sound?
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post #24 of 33 Old 11-19-2019, 09:01 AM
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I bet that would shake the hell out of anything you put on it! Indeed that does look nice.
I have 3 down-firing 15" subs from PSA and unless I play at extreme levels, nothing vibrates off the top. I use them as end tables around the seating area and never had a beer spill on movie night....only a picture vibrate off the top playing EDM music at 125db. It would be safe to assume these X12's would be similar in that regard. I think for 579.00 it's hard to beat based on performance vs price and flexibility.

That being said, I don't own the X12, but I do own a M8 that I use for my 2.1 garage setup and it sounds really good!!
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post #25 of 33 Old 11-19-2019, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I have 3 down-firing 15" subs from PSA and unless I play at extreme levels, nothing vibrates off the top. I use them as end tables around the seating area and never had a beer spill on movie night....only a picture vibrate off the top playing EDM music at 125db. It would be safe to assume these X12's would be similar in that regard. I think for 579.00 it's hard to beat based on performance vs price and flexibility.

That being said, I don't own the X12, but I do own a M8 that I use for my 2.1 garage setup and it sounds really good!!
Good to know! How do you like them from a sound point of view positioned in your seating area instead of by the TV or elsewhere? Did you test different positions for the subs and then decide to put them in the seating area? Or are they where they are due to not having a better location where they would fit well?
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post #26 of 33 Old 11-19-2019, 12:17 PM
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I spent weeks moving and measuring with REW till I found the right spots which ended up being a nearfield array used as end tables around the seating area. Sounds excellent ...one sub would not produce the same results.
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post #27 of 33 Old 11-19-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
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So what are your thoughts on the Outlaw X12 sound wise? You’re right it is a great looking sub but how does it sound?
Internet direct subwoofer companies like Outlaw Audio, HSU Research, SVS, Power Sound Audio, Seaton Sound, JTR Speakers will bring sound quality, performance, and value to the table. The $579 Ultra-X12 will sound and perform better than anything you will find from a retail brand at the same price.

https://hometheaterreview.com/outlaw...ofer-reviewed/

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...-x12-subwoofer

https://www.cnet.com/news/may-the-fo...x12-subwoofer/

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...12-review.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...s-sb-12-a.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...vtf-2-mk5.html
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HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR- Anthem MRX 300 | Media Player - Fire TV Box 2nd Gen | Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - PS3-320GB / Xbox One
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post #28 of 33 Old 11-19-2019, 01:10 PM
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I have my eye on the Rythmik FVX15. I was just curious if it would be better to grab 2 of the Outlaw X12's over just one Rythmik.
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post #29 of 33 Old 11-19-2019, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoppa View Post
If I were to get a sub that would fill in the low-end, do you have any recommendations for one that isn't too physically or sonically big, and not too expensive?
Budget-wise, given that I am looking for the Toyota Corolla of options (that will get me to my destination efficiently), I'd love not to spend too much money. How much is "too much?" My gut says over $600 is too much for a Corolla. I'd love to be closer to $400. Is that even feasible? And does the car analogy continue to work here, in that a Corolla is small, but is there a cost-effective small sub that is worth a damn?

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
SVS PB-1000 - $500, shipped.
(The Monoprice Monolith 10" is also $500 and it's more-powerful and tune-able...but it's larger and less WAF-friendly.)

RSL Speedwoofer 10S - $400, shipped: Less extension but more compact and WAF-friendly.
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Consider the Rythmik L12. It's sealed and (relatively) small. It will not be near enough for the room (none of your choices will be), but it has good linear response, should fulfill WAF, and will do the job of filling in the lower frequencies. Since the wife does not like loud, boomy bass, this should be perfect, assuming you place it well (bass response is all about proper positioning). In addition, it has quite a few tuning options, to tailor it to the needs of your room and your speakers. Lastly, excellent customer support to help you get the most from your investment.

+1 to these, as I read your OP my first thought was:
"His price point was my price-point 5 years ago, and I landed on the "entry level SVS" offerings (the ported PB-1000, previously recommended, and the sealed SB-1000 counterpart)."


My second thought was "I wonder what Rythmik charges for their entry level offering" and I went and checked that that L12 is also in your budget.




I had a PB-1000 in a very large space (16'x24', but open-floor-concept into other equally large rooms) for 5 years. You can't/won't pressurize the kind of space I'm workin in. But sure, you can fill out the frequency response graph and greatly benefit from having a sub. Sealed subs will tend to be physically smaller than ported subs, and based on your description that might matter to you...


I recently (~4 months ago) upgraded to a MUCH larger and more expensive Rythmik F25 sealed servo sub... and I absolutely love it. How much "sealed vs ported" and "servo vs non-servo" matters, in terms of sound quality, is hotly contested by some on these forums, but IMO and based on my (small, limited-sample-space) experiences I have found that the sealed servo Rythmik sounds quicker tighter and more articulate than my old ported SVS, and I'm a big believer in their product. My wife doesn't love the aesthetic... but she loves me, and she let's me "get away" with some things, A/V-wise, that a lot of others don't get clearance from the tower to pull off... she's not an audiophile. She mostly DGAF about the A/V "details" that I sweat and obsess over. But she would tell you, if you asked her, that (purely from a sound quality perspective) she thinks the Rythmik F25 made a bigger difference/improvement, going from the SVS PB-1000, then my new Ascend Sierra Towers (w/ RAAL ribbon upgrade) did, going from my old Polk monitor 70 Series II's.... Two things I'd highlight:


1) The price difference between the Rythmik F25 and the SVS PB-1000 is significantly less than the price difference between the Sierra RAAL towers and the Polk Monitor 70 towers... so this was a better bang-for-the-buck improvement.
2) She's not a bass-head, and this opinion isn't based on the fact that the F25 *can* when I want it to play WAY louder than the PB-1000 could... she wouldn't like that. At all. I keep it "under control" when she's already, and sometimes give it a little bass boost when I'm home alone. Her opinion is based on it's ability to "hit and get out of the way" in a way the SVS didn't.

3) Again, she's not an audiophile. At all.




Punch line: I think either the SVS-SB1000 or the Rythmik L12 would be great options for you at your budget and size constraints... and I'd personally recommend the Rythmik.

Living Room: Sony x940E; Denon x4400h; Ascend Sierra RAAL Tower L/R's and 2EX center, Ascend HTM-200SE Rears, Rythmik F25 sub. NVidia Shield, ATV4k, OPPO UDP-203, CCA.
Basement: Samsung PN58B650 LN-T4065F (x2); Onkyo TX-NR809; Polk Monitor 70 Series II L/R's, SVS PB-1000 sub. NVidia Shield (x2), Windows Desktop, CCA.
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post #30 of 33 Old 11-19-2019, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamajas13 View Post
I have my eye on the Rythmik FVX15. I was just curious if it would be better to grab 2 of the Outlaw X12's over just one Rythmik.
That's a tough one! If the X-12 is the Corolla, the FVX15 is the Avalon or the Lexus! LOL!

If it were me, I would go with the FVX15... I've yet to own a Rythmik (BTW, was looking at a used one this past weekend) but listen to them at shows and they are nice subs. Unless this is a problem large room, a room with wide seating or two rows, etc. A choice between two for better room coverage or one large single awesome sub.

HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR- Anthem MRX 300 | Media Player - Fire TV Box 2nd Gen | Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - PS3-320GB / Xbox One
Speakers - Main - Boston Acoustics Lynnfield VR965 | Center - Boston Acoustics Lynnfield VR920 | Rear - Artison Portrait LRS
| Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - O Audio BASH 500
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