Small Inexpensive Subs To Pair With SVS PB2000 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 12-03-2019, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Small Inexpensive Subs To Pair With SVS PB2000

Room:
18x15
270 square feet
2160 cubic feet

I own an SVS PB 2000 and am thinking I'd like to buy two smaller (as in form factor) subs to pair up with this. I would like them to not cost a lot. I was thinking something like the Dayton Audio 1200 or 1000. I would then use the two smaller ones to help even out the bass in the room and help with the mid range while leaving the PB 2000 for the low end kick. Any input as to whether this could work well or what is a less than $200 subwoofer that isn't terrible?

Thanks everyone
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post #2 of 22 Old 12-03-2019, 01:32 PM
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Svs pb-12 nsd
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post #3 of 22 Old 12-03-2019, 05:12 PM
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This has been getting a lot of attention of late. At that price you can get two for the price of one SVS.

https://www.jbl.com/studio-5-series/SUB+550P.html
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post #4 of 22 Old 12-03-2019, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Ooo! Thanks. I will do some looking into this sub.

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post #5 of 22 Old 12-03-2019, 06:21 PM
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Ooo! Thanks. I will do some looking into this sub.

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Just be advised that those JBLs are sealed enclosures so they a have a quite different low end response and roll off. They're going to be harder to integrate with a ported sub.

The best thing would be if you could put them so they fire directly into the seats from a few inches.

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post #6 of 22 Old 12-03-2019, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Just be advised that those JBLs are sealed enclosures so they a have a quite different low end response and roll off. They're going to be harder to integrate with a ported sub.



The best thing would be if you could put them so they fire directly into the seats from a few inches.
What kind of poor effects would I be at risk for? I know this is what they say, but I havent played around enough to really know what kind of problems can arise in a situatuon like this. Ive tried pairing it with some cheaper subs but i could hear the boominess and muffled sound of the cheaper sub. My hope with a sub like this is that i would get cleaner bass and mitigate some of those problems.

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post #7 of 22 Old 12-03-2019, 06:56 PM
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What kind of poor effects would I be at risk for? I know this is what they say, but I havent played around enough to really know what kind of problems can arise in a situatuon like this. Ive tried pairing it with some cheaper subs but i could hear the boominess and muffled sound of the cheaper sub. My hope with a sub like this is that i would get cleaner bass and mitigate some of those problems.

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There are members here that can explain it better than me, but it can result in a large range of frequencies that cancel each other out or create excessive peaks.

You should email SVS tech support and ask them if the SB12 (on sale for $399) would work with your PB2000. They'll explain the reasons why it's not a good idea.
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post #8 of 22 Old 12-03-2019, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
There are members here that can explain it better than me, but it can result in a large range of frequencies that cancel each other out or create excessive peaks.



You should email SVS tech support and ask them if the SB12 (on sale for $399) would work with your PB2000. They'll explain the reasons why it's not a good idea.
Ok, yeah i have read about it and i can probably do more reading. One of these days im just going to have to try it, because reading about it only goes so far.

I haven't been all that happy with my SVS sub, which is why i am where I am. If I loved it, I'd get a second PB 2000 and be done with it, but I would like to try a HSU, Rhythmik, PSA or something similar. The thing is I would like to try and even out the bass now instead of starting over. I suppose I could try and add one from one of those other brands in with the PB 2000, but I am hoping to run at least two identical subs. I was sort of hoping to add 2 cheap ones, that were still decent and then eventually when im ready to spend the money, just get two monster subs from one of the internet direct brands.

I have an older thread where I explain my issues with the PB 2000 and I don't want to sound like I'm constantly complaining about it, because I have come around to really enjoying the way it sounds and SVS has been a great company to work with, but I've always felt the midbass was lacking. After more research it sounded like I could've got more sub for my money with one of the other brands and others felt the way I did about the midbass. I don't know, its really tough to make a determination without sitting down and listening to 5 or 6 competitors at the same time.

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post #9 of 22 Old 12-05-2019, 01:16 PM
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...I have an older thread where I explain my issues with the PB 2000 .......
Just want to thank you for sharing this valuable info on PB-2000. So glad I didn't grab one from their BF sale.
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post #10 of 22 Old 12-05-2019, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Just want to thank you for sharing this valuable info on PB-2000. So glad I didn't grab one from their BF sale.
Thanks, I'm glad you could find value in it. Just a note though, this is mostly a personal preference thing, but I do find many people tend to agree with it. The PB 2000 is a good sub, I just prefer my midbass hot and I can't do that with the PB 2000, because it is has such an even sound that then the sub 30HZ stuff is too much and will just rattle everything.

I ended up ordering two of the JBL 550p subs. We will see if they can fill the void or if they just bring me problems based on the fact that they are sealed and the SVS is ported. They should arrive Monday and I will be comparing them to the SVS. I know they won't rumble or hit as deep, but they might give me what im looking for in that 50 - 80hz range.



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post #11 of 22 Old 12-05-2019, 05:07 PM
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Thanks, I'm glad you could find value in it. Just a note though, this is mostly a personal preference thing, but I do find many people tend to agree with it. The PB 2000 is a good sub, I just prefer my midbass hot and I can't do that with the PB 2000, because it is has such an even sound that then the sub 30HZ stuff is too much and will just rattle everything.

I ended up ordering two of the JBL 550p subs. We will see if they can fill the void or if they just bring me problems based on the fact that they are sealed and the SVS is ported. They should arrive Monday and I will be comparing them to the SVS. I know they won't rumble or hit as deep, but they might give me what im looking for in that 50 - 80hz range.



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If they do give you what you are looking for in the 50-80 range, but the interaction with the SVS is problematic, you might consider selling off the SVS and letting the JBLs do the job. In fact, a third might just be in the mix depending on the proceeds from the SVS.

Alternatively, maybe SVS will allow you to turn it in for an SB3000 upgrade ...
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post #12 of 22 Old 12-05-2019, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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If they do give you what you are looking for in the 50-80 range, but the interaction with the SVS is problematic, you might consider selling off the SVS and letting the JBLs do the job. In fact, a third might just be in the mix depending on the proceeds from the SVS.



Alternatively, maybe SVS will allow you to turn it in for an SB3000 upgrade ...
Yeah, we'll see how it goes. I don't think I'll be happy replacing the svs with something that doesn't have the extension that it does, but maybe I'll take advantage of their return policy and see if maybe a second PB 2000 will give me what I'm looking for. If not, I'm not out anything and I can try another brand. My brother would be happy to take the PB 2000 off my hands if that's the route I go, but I might have a hard time letting go . Even though I find myself wanting more, it is still very impressive.

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post #13 of 22 Old 12-06-2019, 03:31 AM
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The PB12 and PB2000 have decent low end 16-30 Hz but are rather weak compared to most ID competitors in the mid and upper bass. The PB2000 may be a couple dB ahead on output. If looking for a better value with more output, Hsu VTF3-MK5.
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post #14 of 22 Old 12-10-2019, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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The PB12 and PB2000 have decent low end 16-30 Hz but are rather weak compared to most ID competitors in the mid and upper bass. The PB2000 may be a couple dB ahead on output. If looking for a better value with more output, Hsu VTF3-MK5.
Yeah, I agree thats sort of what I figured out after I had it. Ultimately I bought the SVS for their free trial and free returns. This is my first nice sub so I really didn't know what to expect. I ended up keeping it not knowing if I'd gain much switching to the HSU. Still dont know really, but after I started searching around I have read numerous times that the HSU has more mid bass output. Something I'll try eventually.

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post #15 of 22 Old 12-10-2019, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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So I have been playing around with the JBLs since yesterday. Not eactly enough time to really give them a good listen or get them calibrated and setup properly, but I think I have them 80% of the way there. My first thoughts are these are decent little (heavy!) subs, especially for the money.

The problem is, they really make me realize how clean my PB 2000 really is. They definitely give me what I was looking for in that midrange by boosting those levels by a considerable amount, but when you get to those sub 50hz levels or so they start to interfere with the clean bass that the SVS is putting out. Right now, I like them and I think they would be great for someone who had $400 bucks to spend or even just the $190 for one, but I don't think they'll find a long term home along side the SVS, they just don't blend very well. I may end up keeping them for a stereo setup or for some other room though.



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post #16 of 22 Old Yesterday, 12:40 AM
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What kind of poor effects would I be at risk for? I know this is what they say, but I havent played around enough to really know what kind of problems can arise in a situatuon like this. Ive tried pairing it with some cheaper subs but i could hear the boominess and muffled sound of the cheaper sub. My hope with a sub like this is that i would get cleaner bass and mitigate some of those problems.

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I would use only identical subs in each of the frequency bands where they are set up to play.
If you have to have different types / models of subs then you can use the bigger identical ones in the lower octave 20-40Hz and the smaller identical ones in the upper octave 40-80Hz.

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post #17 of 22 Old Yesterday, 12:02 PM
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So I have been playing around with the JBLs since yesterday. Not eactly enough time to really give them a good listen or get them calibrated and setup properly, but I think I have them 80% of the way there. My first thoughts are these are decent little (heavy!) subs, especially for the money.

The problem is, they really make me realize how clean my PB 2000 really is. They definitely give me what I was looking for in that midrange by boosting those levels by a considerable amount, but when you get to those sub 50hz levels or so they start to interfere with the clean bass that the SVS is putting out. Right now, I like them and I think they would be great for someone who had $400 bucks to spend or even just the $190 for one, but I don't think they'll find a long term home along side the SVS, they just don't blend very well. I may end up keeping them for a stereo setup or for some other room though.
Tuning three subs is not a one afternoon project. Tuning three differing subs, well, months are probably required to get it right. Your reaction that the subs ruin the clean sound of the SVS is counter-intuitive, as the sealed subs should produce a cleaner sound. This tells me that you are not 80% there, more like 20%.

Have you tried the new subs alone, without the svs in the mix? How do they sound without that interaction? Have you tried one, alone, in the same position as the SVS?

This outcome is as expected. You will need to do a lot more tuning and tweaking to get this all to work together. If you do not have the time or interest in the integration process, you might just sell them. Since the cost of the subs is back up to $500, you can probably reap a nice profit on the deal.
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post #18 of 22 Old Yesterday, 12:05 PM
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I would use only identical subs in each of the frequency bands where they are set up to play.
If you have to have different types / models of subs then you can use the bigger identical ones in the lower octave 20-40Hz and the smaller identical ones in the upper octave 40-80Hz.
This is a good idea, but would require the use of an external crossover between the two sealed subs and the ported.
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post #19 of 22 Old Yesterday, 12:28 PM
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This is a good idea, but would require the use of an external crossover between the two sealed subs and the ported.
Correct.
On top of that there would be no benefit from the addition of the smaller subs as far as output increase is concerned since the bigger subs can take care of the smaller subs duty as well and cover the whole frequency band 20Hz-80Hz.

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Tuning three subs is not a one afternoon project. Tuning three differing subs, well, months are probably required to get it right. Your reaction that the subs ruin the clean sound of the SVS is counter-intuitive, as the sealed subs should produce a cleaner sound.
+1

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post #21 of 22 Old Yesterday, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I understand all that. I'm never truly done tweaking my subs and I would never completely rule them out after a couple days of messing around. This was just an initial impression after having the subs for 48 hours. Not trying to give a final opinion or review of any sub that quickly. In my room and in the placement that offers the most improvement in the midbass (my main goal) the JBLs get SLIGHTLY boomy under 40hz. To me its distracting and takes away from whats there on the low end. That doesn't mean it can't be done. I think my main point was that it might just make more sense to get a matching sub.

Without the SVS and only playing one JBL on, I get the same effect. However, I'll need to mess around with it more. I haven't given the JBLs a fair shot yet.

I disagree that just because the SVS is ported and the JBLs are sealed means that they can't be a little bommier. They are completely different subs, at different price points. I'm not saying the JBL is bad by any means, it is currently corner loaded which is certainly adding to that effect, but I have more tweaking to do no doubt.

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..., but when you get to those sub 50hz levels or so they start to interfere with the clean bass that the SVS is putting out...
What you are hearing below 50 Hz while playing both types of subs - ported and sealed - is the interference caused by the gradual increase of sound phase difference between ported and sealed subs.
As the signal gets closer to the ported subs tuned port frequency the ported sub port sound output starts to gradually increase while the driver output diminishes. The ported sound is created by the driver back wave (180deg phase difference) and going through the port air column energizing process. In the mean time the sealed sub sound is coming only from the driver itself. That phase difference between ported and sealed subs below 2x frequency of the ported tune is creating cancellations in the overall output.
That's why you can not get good results when mixing ported and sealed subs in the same frequency band.
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