Need help with a Subwoofer's frequency and muddy bass. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 41 Old 12-07-2019, 03:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Need help with a Subwoofer's frequency and muddy bass.

Hi Guys!

Forgive me if it is a wrong section. I need help with my subwoofer and its frequency response as it is too high in some frequency.

First thing first, my setup.
Amplifier: Sony STRDN-1080
Front Speakers: Aiwa 3-Way Floor Standers (Not sure about the model as these are Vintage and very old and Very Big, but sound good.). I also have Q Acoustics 3020 for fronts but decided to use these old Aiwa due to their size, sound and as they are floor standers, I don't need to use stands. I am using the Q Acoustics 3020 with Sansui amp for stereo listening.
Center: Q Acoustics 3090c
Surrounds: Polk T15s
Front height: Sony SSCSE Atmos enabled top firing speakers
Subwoofer: SVS SB-2000 (seated on top of Auralex subdude ii)
Room: Room with a single standard door entry. Size: W 3.8m x L 4.0m x H 2.7m, carpeted floor with plasterboards on walls.

Due to size of the room I am limited in the placement of subwoofer.

Overall sound is great, I like how this setup sounds. However, I find the Subwoofer can be bit overwhelming in some instance.

For test I am using Dolby Amaze Demo with Dolby Atmos 7.2 True HD Lossless audio (From digital theatre demo downloads).

During this demo the Thundercloud strike (0.38 minute to 0.40 minute into clip) goes boom and very much overwhelms the room with boomy bass and I find everything rattles. To narrow down the frequency, I ran bass frequency youtube video, and in that I found the Subwoofer becomes very high at 40hz and 45hz, as it seems to be at its peak, subwoofer does goes low to 15hz. rest of the frequency is fine along with the all of Dolby Amaze demo except that Thundercloud strike. As I increase the volume, this becomes rather too much for enjoyable movie experience. I am not sure what can I do.

Initially, this was an empty room without any chairs sofa or any furniture of kind. So I had started with some Acoustics pin-boards in colours and stuck them on wall, which has improved the brightness in audio (High frequency), Also have some Acoustics absorber foam behind the fronts and centre speaker, and added two bass trap in back two lower corners. I now have a leather couch in the back wall, toy storing cabinet and toy tent in the room along with lots of toys (Between starting to build this and now, I have had a baby and room became more of a toy room than media room ). So, placement of the Subwoofer has became limited and is on front in between Centre and front speaker

Lowering the subwoofer level lowers overall bass and feels like there is no subwoofer, when I have it as is after the calibration it can be muddy in some instances. I seem to have bass standing waves in the room. Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of testing another subwoofer in this room.

I am not sure what to do here. Any advise or suggestions please?
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post #2 of 41 Old 12-07-2019, 03:53 AM
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Have you tried moving the sub half a foot or something to check if any difference? Sometimes a little can go a long way.
Is it the sub or is it the big speakers? Try with the smaller speakers. Also with the sub turned off with the big ones to hear if the same peak.
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post #3 of 41 Old 12-07-2019, 04:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Have you tried moving the sub half a foot or something to check if any difference? Sometimes a little can go a long way.
Is it the sub or is it the big speakers? Try with the smaller speakers. Also with the sub turned off with the big ones to hear if the same peak.
I tried moving the sub, before it was in corner and now it is in between Front and Centre speaker, This did improve some but not much. I cannot move it any forward away from wall without tipping over someone.

Initially I had the Q Acoustics 3020 small speakers as Fronts and that made no difference in the peak. I have not tested the Sub turned off and listened with the big ones, I will test this out.
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post #4 of 41 Old 12-07-2019, 12:17 PM
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Sub position and seating position are the two key issues in attempting to get even frequency response from your sub. So, you need to look for additional positions for either and test them out. If you truly can't find any other options for sub placement (be more creative!), then move the seating.
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post #5 of 41 Old 12-07-2019, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, here is what I further tested.

- Moved the subwoofer by 2 foot to the front and tested, Can't say there is much difference. In fact, I also changed around the sub facing from straight to sides, and all the way to back facing. Back facing to wall was the worst, and not much difference between straight facing and side facing, so left the sub in straight facing.

- Powered off the subwoofer and tested using just the speakers. With big front two speakers, it actually sounded decent, however lacking bit of a punch, which is to expected without subwoofer. But this clearly pointed the subwoofer being too powerful.

- Set all the speakers to small in Amp and subwoofer to normal. No difference, bass was still too overwhelming.

- Set the fronts to large and rest to small, and turned down the volume on Subwoofer all the way down. Felt like there is no subwoofer and lacked the punch.

- Set the fronts to large and rest to small, Subwoofer volume on sub itself to mid point and within amp setting turned down level by 7db. At low volume there is no bass punch, but at higher volume now I can listen without getting it too boomy. I have left it as is for now and will tinker around bit more.

I also tried to do Subwoofer crawl in opposite way, by leaving the sub where it is and I moved around the room, So far the best listening spot I found was right next to Subwoofer itself. Unfortunately, I cannot move the subwoofer next to listening position as the couch starches the whole back wall, there is a small space next to couch but I am afraid placing the sub in that tight corner will make it worse.
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post #6 of 41 Old 12-08-2019, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehalk View Post
OK, here is what I further tested.



- Moved the subwoofer by 2 foot to the front and tested, Can't say there is much difference. In fact, I also changed around the sub facing from straight to sides, and all the way to back facing. Back facing to wall was the worst, and not much difference between straight facing and side facing, so left the sub in straight facing.



- Powered off the subwoofer and tested using just the speakers. With big front two speakers, it actually sounded decent, however lacking bit of a punch, which is to expected without subwoofer. But this clearly pointed the subwoofer being too powerful.



- Set all the speakers to small in Amp and subwoofer to normal. No difference, bass was still too overwhelming.



- Set the fronts to large and rest to small, and turned down the volume on Subwoofer all the way down. Felt like there is no subwoofer and lacked the punch.



- Set the fronts to large and rest to small, Subwoofer volume on sub itself to mid point and within amp setting turned down level by 7db. At low volume there is no bass punch, but at higher volume now I can listen without getting it too boomy. I have left it as is for now and will tinker around bit more.



I also tried to do Subwoofer crawl in opposite way, by leaving the sub where it is and I moved around the room, So far the best listening spot I found was right next to Subwoofer itself. Unfortunately, I cannot move the subwoofer next to listening position as the couch starches the whole back wall, there is a small space next to couch but I am afraid placing the sub in that tight corner will make it worse.


Its not too powerful, its the room that amplifies one or a few frequencies a lot which is what gives the too much bass effect. Another much weaker sub could give the exact same effect. Have you tried room correction? Or some manual EQ to cut down a bit at the trouble frequency.

The only real solution is often placement unfortunatly if EQ/room correction wont help enough.


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post #7 of 41 Old 12-08-2019, 02:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Its not too powerful, its the room that amplifies one or a few frequencies a lot which is what gives the too much bass effect. Another much weaker sub could give the exact same effect. Have you tried room correction? Or some manual EQ to cut down a bit at the trouble frequency.

The only real solution is often placement unfortunatly if EQ/room correction wont help enough.


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Yes, I agree the weak point here is the room that amplifies certain frequencies. Unfortunately, that is out of my control.

This is after the room correction, and the amp doesn't have manual EQ for the subwoofer only for speakers. I guess I will just have to tinker around and find a creative way to place that sub.
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post #8 of 41 Old 12-08-2019, 02:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Its not too powerful, its the room that amplifies one or a few frequencies a lot which is what gives the too much bass effect. Another much weaker sub could give the exact same effect. Have you tried room correction? Or some manual EQ to cut down a bit at the trouble frequency.

The only real solution is often placement unfortunatly if EQ/room correction wont help enough.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes, I agree the weak point here is the room that amplifies certain frequencies. Unfortunately, that is out of my control.

This is after the room correction, and the amp doesn't have manual EQ for the subwoofer only for speakers. I guess I will just have to tinker around and find a creative way to place that sub.
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post #9 of 41 Old 12-08-2019, 05:58 AM
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Your AVR likely has poor subwoofer eq capability. The solution is as follows:

1) Purchase a Umik-1 mic and download REW. Measure your response....follow up on the forums until you learn how to correctly measure and configure the graphs.

2) Purchase a miniDSP 2x4 HD. Use this to eq your sub after measuring.

3) Measure the new response after applying eq with the miniDSP.

4). Listen

5) Add a house curve if desired to taste...just be cautious about the output capabilities of your small sealed sub.
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post #10 of 41 Old 12-08-2019, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Your AVR likely has poor subwoofer eq capability. The solution is as follows:

1) Purchase a Umik-1 mic and download REW. Measure your response....follow up on the forums until you learn how to correctly measure and configure the graphs.

2) Purchase a miniDSP 2x4 HD. Use this to eq your sub after measuring.

3) Measure the new response after applying eq with the miniDSP.

4). Listen

5) Add a house curve if desired to taste...just be cautious about the output capabilities of your small sealed sub.
What kind of sorcery is this!!!

I read about both the mic and the DSP, man I had no idea this sort of things were available.
It looks promising, however because I live in the land of Bushfires and Koalas (Australia), these costs lot more than I expected down here. The DSP costs somewhere around AUD $375 and Mic another AUD $175 making it really hard to justify the use.

Would you be able to recommend any other DSP for subwoofer only that would cost lot less.
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post #11 of 41 Old 12-08-2019, 05:30 PM
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I may have missed it but didn't notice any mention of your crossover setting. Have you experimented with that? If it sounds decent running just the mains you might want try different combinations of running your mains small vs large with different rolloffs for your sub. The suggested UMIK/REW sorcery is the best way to get a real grip on your environment but if you are reluctant to take the plunge or want to play around while you're waiting for it to arrive that is another avenue you can explore.

Also, I understand that your sub placement options are limited. This is usually the case for most of us. In a previous home I had good results by raising the sub off the floor in the same location that it sounded poor on the floor. Granted I was using 2 cylinder subs and stacking one on top of the other but the results were dramatically better than the 2 subs at the 1/4 points of the front wall. It might be a long shot - but may be worth trying. FWIW it's worth they were both downfiring, running sealed since they were stacked and the ports were on top, and the driver of the sub on top was about 40" off the floor just inside the right main speaker. After Audyssey set distance I adjusted phase by ear on each, individually with the mains -my ear literally pressed against the cylinder so I could hear and feel the bass from the subs while listening to the mains. Yeah, I cringe picturing that when I think back but sometimes we are driven to extreme/desperate measures. That was honestly the best result I've achieved to date.

Until you decide or receive the UMIK there is a handy room mode calculator by Harman International. I can't remember where I got it (it's been ages) but the exe file name is aptly: Room Mode Calculator.exe. If you can dig that up it could be helpful tweaking position. Inches can matter.
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post #12 of 41 Old 12-08-2019, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehalk View Post
What kind of sorcery is this!!!

I read about both the mic and the DSP, man I had no idea this sort of things were available.
It looks promising, however because I live in the land of Bushfires and Koalas (Australia), these costs lot more than I expected down here. The DSP costs somewhere around AUD $375 and Mic another AUD $175 making it really hard to justify the use.

Would you be able to recommend any other DSP for subwoofer only that would cost lot less.
Well if your receiver has XT32 you may also have subeqHT which typically does an excellent job with eq'ing single or dual subs.

As far as the cost of the miniDSP and Umik-1 mic, I think they are a very good investment....they don't need to replace every few years with gear, but are rather permanent tools that can be used to improve and tinker with your system for many years. IMO, they are a good investment to support the many thousands we spend on our gear if they help us improve our sound quality.

I don't know of a cheaper sub eq option.
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post #13 of 41 Old 12-08-2019, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehalk View Post
Hi Guys!

Forgive me if it is a wrong section. I need help with my subwoofer and its frequency response as it is too high in some frequency.

First thing first, my setup.
Amplifier: Sony STRDN-1080
Front Speakers: Aiwa 3-Way Floor Standers (Not sure about the model as these are Vintage and very old and Very Big, but sound good.). I also have Q Acoustics 3020 for fronts but decided to use these old Aiwa due to their size, sound and as they are floor standers, I don't need to use stands. I am using the Q Acoustics 3020 with Sansui amp for stereo listening.
Center: Q Acoustics 3090c
Surrounds: Polk T15s
Front height: Sony SSCSE Atmos enabled top firing speakers
Subwoofer: SVS SB-2000 (seated on top of Auralex subdude ii)
Room: Room with a single standard door entry. Size: W 3.8m x L 4.0m x H 2.7m, carpeted floor with plasterboards on walls.

Due to size of the room I am limited in the placement of subwoofer.

Overall sound is great, I like how this setup sounds. However, I find the Subwoofer can be bit overwhelming in some instance.

For test I am using Dolby Amaze Demo with Dolby Atmos 7.2 True HD Lossless audio (From digital theatre demo downloads).

During this demo the Thundercloud strike (0.38 minute to 0.40 minute into clip) goes boom and very much overwhelms the room with boomy bass and I find everything rattles. To narrow down the frequency, I ran bass frequency youtube video, and in that I found the Subwoofer becomes very high at 40hz and 45hz, as it seems to be at its peak, subwoofer does goes low to 15hz. rest of the frequency is fine along with the all of Dolby Amaze demo except that Thundercloud strike. As I increase the volume, this becomes rather too much for enjoyable movie experience. I am not sure what can I do.

Initially, this was an empty room without any chairs sofa or any furniture of kind. So I had started with some Acoustics pin-boards in colours and stuck them on wall, which has improved the brightness in audio (High frequency), Also have some Acoustics absorber foam behind the fronts and centre speaker, and added two bass trap in back two lower corners. I now have a leather couch in the back wall, toy storing cabinet and toy tent in the room along with lots of toys (Between starting to build this and now, I have had a baby and room became more of a toy room than media room ). So, placement of the Subwoofer has became limited and is on front in between Centre and front speaker

Lowering the subwoofer level lowers overall bass and feels like there is no subwoofer, when I have it as is after the calibration it can be muddy in some instances. I seem to have bass standing waves in the room. Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of testing another subwoofer in this room.

I am not sure what to do here. Any advise or suggestions please?
Try setting the sub filter in the Sony from 120hz to 80hz and then experiment with the setting till you find a balance you like.
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post #14 of 41 Old 12-09-2019, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Artzilla View Post
I may have missed it but didn't notice any mention of your crossover setting. Have you experimented with that? If it sounds decent running just the mains you might want try different combinations of running your mains small vs large with different rolloffs for your sub. The suggested UMIK/REW sorcery is the best way to get a real grip on your environment but if you are reluctant to take the plunge or want to play around while you're waiting for it to arrive that is another avenue you can explore.

Also, I understand that your sub placement options are limited. This is usually the case for most of us. In a previous home I had good results by raising the sub off the floor in the same location that it sounded poor on the floor. Granted I was using 2 cylinder subs and stacking one on top of the other but the results were dramatically better than the 2 subs at the 1/4 points of the front wall. It might be a long shot - but may be worth trying. FWIW it's worth they were both downfiring, running sealed since they were stacked and the ports were on top, and the driver of the sub on top was about 40" off the floor just inside the right main speaker. After Audyssey set distance I adjusted phase by ear on each, individually with the mains -my ear literally pressed against the cylinder so I could hear and feel the bass from the subs while listening to the mains. Yeah, I cringe picturing that when I think back but sometimes we are driven to extreme/desperate measures. That was honestly the best result I've achieved to date.

Until you decide or receive the UMIK there is a handy room mode calculator by Harman International. I can't remember where I got it (it's been ages) but the exe file name is aptly: Room Mode Calculator.exe. If you can dig that up it could be helpful tweaking position. Inches can matter.
I had a look at the harmon room mode calculator but couldn't make sense of it or even how to use it. Anyway I am just trying out newer spot as much as I can.
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Well if your receiver has XT32 you may also have subeqHT which typically does an excellent job with eq'ing single or dual subs.

As far as the cost of the miniDSP and Umik-1 mic, I think they are a very good investment....they don't need to replace every few years with gear, but are rather permanent tools that can be used to improve and tinker with your system for many years. IMO, they are a good investment to support the many thousands we spend on our gear if they help us improve our sound quality.

I don't know of a cheaper sub eq option.
I am not sure what XT32 is nor I have seen it anywhere on Sony amp settings, perhaps I wasn't sure where to look.

For now, I can't justify the DSP and mic cost. I will have to try other alternatives.
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
Try setting the sub filter in the Sony from 120hz to 80hz and then experiment with the setting till you find a balance you like.
Unfortunately, the Sony amp does not have any sub filter settings. Only thing available is EQ for the speakers and crossover settings for speakers, which I did play around with it and found no difference.

Anyway, I further tested the sub placement and moved the sub to one of the side wall in an angle same way you would place a front speaker and played those same tracks Dolby atmos demos and surprisingly the results were good, no boomy or muddy bass, it played those tracks well but was missing some of the lower frequency vibrations. I also further listened to few more demos and they all sounded good with big bass volume (not so much sub sonic frequencies) and overall was a good result.

To figure out the subsonic frequencies and some vibrations I went into Amp's speaker level setting and tried to increase subwoofer's level, but no noise came out of subwoofer, upon physical check I found the sub had been powered off when I was moving it to new place and had forgotten to turn it back on. silly me. But that made me realise the bass potential of the big fronts. Anyway, I turned on the subwoofer and tested those tracks again, it has improved a lot. Unfortunately, the muddy boom in Dolby Amaze is still there and so is the intro in Mad max-Fury road, but rest of the other tracks were better than before.

I think I will just use the setup without the subwoofer and just use fronts for their bass (They have 10inch big woofer and are three way) until I figure out a good placement and or able to procure the DSP and MIC.
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Grab your AVR mic, plug it into a laptop and do a sweep with REW. It costs nothing but your time. Your db levels will be off, but it will show you where your nulls and peaks are. You can then experiment with positions and settings to try improve the nulls.



After that you can decide how far down the rabbit hole of bass you're willing to go with DSP and calibrated mic etc.



Subwoofers need to come with warning labels, "NOT PLUG AND PLAY"
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post #18 of 41 Old 12-09-2019, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehalk View Post
Unfortunately, the Sony amp does not have any sub filter settings. Only thing available is EQ for the speakers and crossover settings for speakers, which I did play around with it and found no difference.

Anyway, I further tested the sub placement and moved the sub to one of the side wall in an angle same way you would place a front speaker and played those same tracks Dolby atmos demos and surprisingly the results were good, no boomy or muddy bass, it played those tracks well but was missing some of the lower frequency vibrations. I also further listened to few more demos and they all sounded good with big bass volume (not so much sub sonic frequencies) and overall was a good result.

To figure out the subsonic frequencies and some vibrations I went into Amp's speaker level setting and tried to increase subwoofer's level, but no noise came out of subwoofer, upon physical check I found the sub had been powered off when I was moving it to new place and had forgotten to turn it back on. silly me. But that made me realise the bass potential of the big fronts. Anyway, I turned on the subwoofer and tested those tracks again, it has improved a lot. Unfortunately, the muddy boom in Dolby Amaze is still there and so is the intro in Mad max-Fury road, but rest of the other tracks were better than before.

I think I will just use the setup without the subwoofer and just use fronts for their bass (They have 10inch big woofer and are three way) until I figure out a good placement and or able to procure the DSP and MIC.
Sounds like a solid plan but let me just add I use that same Dolby Atmos demo(Amaze) along with a few other tracks to set my subs LPF and anything above 90hz can be to much and loses definition in the bass and could just be that particular frequency is recorded to hot.

Anyway keep us posted
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I am assuming you have set a crossover at 80hz. You could download a set of test tones and either use a Sound Pressure meter or a phone app that does the same thing. Test your output at your listening position and verify the peak at 40hz.

Next use the phase knob on the sub or modify the sub distance setting on your receiver to reduce the perceived output of the peak at your listening position. Do this while you are playing the tone that corresponds with the peak changing the phase knob or distance while looking at the meter in real time

By changing the distance (or phase) you are acoustically moving the sub around the room to reduce the peak at your listening position

This quick and dirty, cheap method, may make the improvement you desire with some trial and error

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post #20 of 41 Old 12-09-2019, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by olock View Post
Grab your AVR mic, plug it into a laptop and do a sweep with REW. It costs nothing but your time. Your db levels will be off, but it will show you where your nulls and peaks are. You can then experiment with positions and settings to try improve the nulls.



After that you can decide how far down the rabbit hole of bass you're willing to go with DSP and calibrated mic etc.



Subwoofers need to come with warning labels, "NOT PLUG AND PLAY"
That's a good idea, never thought of using AVR's MIC for REW, I did try the REW with my laptop's built in mic (Somebody come and slap me) which showed my room is in perfect position and has perfect flat line response without any peaks and or nulls.

I will try again with the AVR Mic.
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post #21 of 41 Old 12-09-2019, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like a solid plan but let me just add I use that same Dolby Atmos demo(Amaze) along with a few other tracks to set my subs LPF and anything above 90hz can be to much and loses definition in the bass and could just be that particular frequency is recorded to hot.

Anyway keep us posted
Yeah it seems like that Amaze demo is bit too heavy with that particular frequency, Dolby's Leaf demo played well so did others. I will continue to tinker around and see what I can do best.
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Sounds like a solid plan but let me just add I use that same Dolby Atmos demo(Amaze) along with a few other tracks to set my subs LPF and anything above 90hz can be to much and loses definition in the bass and could just be that particular frequency is recorded to hot.

Anyway keep us posted
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I am assuming you have set a crossover at 80hz. You could download a set of test tones and either use a Sound Pressure meter or a phone app that does the same thing. Test your output at your listening position and verify the peak at 40hz.

Next use the phase knob on the sub or modify the sub distance setting on your receiver to reduce the perceived output of the peak at your listening position. Do this while you are playing the tone that corresponds with the peak changing the phase knob or distance while looking at the meter in real time

By changing the distance (or phase) you are acoustically moving the sub around the room to reduce the peak at your listening position

This quick and dirty, cheap method, may make the improvement you desire with some trial and error
I always wondered what that phase control was for, most of the tutorial or youtube video tells you to leave it as is, but I like your idea of changing the distance and phase to get the better result. I will try it out and update on how it goes.
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Download the app called "Spectroid" which is a frequency analyzer. it will tell you exactly where the peaks and dips are in the frequency range.

when you run it, remember that the mic on your phone is not sensitive to bass below 40hz, so it will start to drop at this point but it should still show you the peaks and dips even down as low as 20hz

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What kind of sorcery is this!!!
The one which might fix your problems, my friend. Depending on room size, shape, and subwoofer location, you might get lucky and have a more or less flat frequency response. But I agree that an uneven frequency response most likely is part of your problem.

I fixed bass issues with subwoofer equalization twice and the results were quite impressive. When there is a strong resonance in a room, it is too loud, making listening at higher levels impossible, and drowning everything else (including the rest of the bass). Reducing these resonances, you can then raise the volume of the bass to the level of your liking without compromises.

The problem is that automated subwoofer EQ-ing is rare and expensive. Denon receivers with Audyssey XT32 can do it (by the way, despite the name, SubEQ doesn't EQ subs), and Dirac-equipped ones too, but Sony's DCAC EX ... probably doesn't. There are autonomous modules such as the DSPeaker Antimode series, but if you're after something inexpensive, well, look elsewhere.

You're left with DSP systems that *can* EQ the sub, but are not automated, meaning that you have to take the measurements manually and compute the parametric EQ filters and enter them into the DSP. Luckily, as you discovered, REW can help you a lot with this, for free -- if you have more time.

The MiniDSP is probably the cheapest and easiest DSP out there for the task, but if you can find an old Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro DSP1124P, you could do it pretty cheaply and with lots of blinking LEDs. The process is more involved despite being supported by REW.

Quote:
It looks promising, however because I live in the land of Bushfires and Koalas (Australia), these costs lot more than I expected down here. The DSP costs somewhere around AUD $375 and Mic another AUD $175 making it really hard to justify the use.
Is this at an Aussie shop? Because MiniDSP (minidsp.com) is actually based in Honk Kong and charge a 95 USD flat rate (+ shipping to your destination), + 10 USD for the firmware (download). I can't believe shipping from Honk Kong to Australia is more expensive to shipping all the way the Canadian East Coast.

Also check for used -- maybe there's some in Australia. The Umik-1 is also one of the cheapest calibrated mic out there.
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Last edited by neutro; 12-10-2019 at 01:54 PM. Reason: typos
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Download the app called "Spectroid" which is a frequency analyzer. it will tell you exactly where the peaks and dips are in the frequency range.

when you run it, remember that the mic on your phone is not sensitive to bass below 40hz, so it will start to drop at this point but it should still show you the peaks and dips even down as low as 20hz
Couldn't find Spectroid for iPhone but did download the Sonic tools and used its RTA, but for some reason the phone's mic isn't reporting much valuable information.
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The one which might fix your problems, my friend. Depending on room size, shape, and subwoofer location, you might get lucky and have a more or less flat frequency response. But I agree that an uneven frequency response most likely is part of your problem.
I agree, it is the frequency response that is killing it for me. I think I will have to take the plunge and get the Mic and the DSP to sort this out.

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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
The MiniDSP is probably the cheapest and easiest DSP out there for the task, but if you can find an old Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro DSP1124P, you could do it pretty cheaply and with lots of blinking LEDs. The process is more involved despite being supported by REW.

Is this at an Aussie shop? Because MiniDSP (minidsp.com) is actually based in Honk Kong and charge a 95 USD flat rate (+ shipping to your destination), + 10 USD for the firmware (download). I can't believe shipping from Honk Kong to Australia is more expensive to shipping all the way the Canadian East Coast.

Also check for used -- maybe there's some in Australia. The Umik-1 is also one of the cheapest calibrated mic out there.
Is there a difference much difference between miniDSP and miniDSP HD?
Yes, it was an Aussie shop, only one that I could find via quick google that sells. I didn't know the miniDSP site is based in hong kong, I will try them first to see how much it comes to.
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Checked out the miniDSP.com site and the miniDSP 2x4 HD & UMIK-1 MIC alone costs AUD $460 shipped to Australia.

This is getting more expensive than all the speakers combined I have in the setup. Only the subwoofer and the amp are the most expensive units in this setup. Is there no other option than miniDSP and UMIK-1?

miniDSP 2x4 (not the HD version) and UMIK-1 costs about AUD $260, this I can swallow. But I am not sure what those difference between miniDSP 2x4 and 2x4 HD is? or will the normal version be suitable for my needs.
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Hmmm obviously that's not good. The MiniDSP HD has higher capabilities but it is not required to EQ one or two subs. Still, I wouldn't put close to 500$ (CAD is about the same as AUD so I feel your pain) on this. That being said, perhaps you can find a used MiniDSP somewhere, or as I said before, a used DSP1124p, if you are technically-inclined. You can also look for another receiver with Audyssey XT32 but it won't be cheaper, unless you go for an older model than the one you got. For example, I suppose you could get an Onkyo 818 or Denon X4000 for not too much, but you'd loose 4k capabilities.

Chasing a better position for the sub (and/or the listener) is basically the only other option if room resonnance is the issue.

///

REW can directly progam or generate config files for several DSP's -- might be worth taking a look at these to see if any one of them is available locally.

I also just saw this in a google search: looks like you can use a Raspberry Pi as a DSP...

But I guess we're going in uncharted paths there.

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Originally Posted by bluehalk View Post
Checked out the miniDSP.com site and the miniDSP 2x4 HD & UMIK-1 MIC alone costs AUD $460 shipped to Australia.

This is getting more expensive than all the speakers combined I have in the setup. Only the subwoofer and the amp are the most expensive units in this setup. Is there no other option than miniDSP and UMIK-1?

miniDSP 2x4 (not the HD version) and UMIK-1 costs about AUD $260, this I can swallow. But I am not sure what those difference between miniDSP 2x4 and 2x4 HD is? or will the normal version be suitable for my needs.

I've got 3 subs on the non-HD version, its just enough. That's about what I paid too. Well worth the $$$, best investment for Bass you can do.
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
The one which might fix your problems, my friend. Depending on room size, shape, and subwoofer location, you might get lucky and have a more or less flat frequency response. But I agree that an uneven frequency response most likely is part of your problem.

I fixed bass issues with subwoofer equalization twice and the results were quite impressive. When there is a strong resonance in a room, it is too loud, making listening at higher levels impossible, and drowning everything else (including the rest of the bass). Reducing these resonances, you can then raise the volume of the bass to the level of your liking without compromises.

The problem is that automated subwoofer EQ-ing is rare and expensive. Denon receivers with Audyssey XT32 can do it (by the way, despite the name, SubEQ doesn't EQ subs), and Dirac-equipped ones too, but Sony's DCAC EX ... probably doesn't. There are autonomous modules such as the DSPeaker Antimode series, but if you're after something inexpensive, well, look elsewhere.

You're left with DSP systems that *can* EQ the sub, but are not automated, meaning that you have to take the measurements manually and compute the parametric EQ filters and enter them into the DSP. Luckily, as you discovered, REW can help you a lot with this, for free -- if you have more time.

The MiniDSP is probably the cheapest and easiest DSP out there for the task, but if you can find an old Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro DSP1124P, you could do it pretty cheaply and with lots of blinking LEDs. The process is more involved despite being supported by REW.



Is this at an Aussie shop? Because MiniDSP (minidsp.com) is actually based in Honk Kong and charge a 95 USD flat rate (+ shipping to your destination), + 10 USD for the firmware (download). I can't believe shipping from Honk Kong to Australia is more expensive to shipping all the way the Canadian East Coast.

Also check for used -- maybe there's some in Australia. The Umik-1 is also one of the cheapest calibrated mic out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post
Hmmm obviously that's not good. The MiniDSP HD has higher capabilities but it is not required to EQ one or two subs. Still, I wouldn't put close to 500$ (CAD is about the same as AUD so I feel your pain) on this. That being said, perhaps you can find a used MiniDSP somewhere, or as I said before, a used DSP1124p, if you are technically-inclined. You can also look for another receiver with Audyssey XT32 but it won't be cheaper, unless you go for an older model than the one you got. For example, I suppose you could get an Onkyo 818 or Denon X4000 for not too much, but you'd loose 4k capabilities.

Chasing a better position for the sub (and/or the listener) is basically the only other option if room resonnance is the issue.

///

REW can directly progam or generate config files for several DSP's -- might be worth taking a look at these to see if any one of them is available locally.

I also just saw this in a google search: looks like you can use a Raspberry Pi as a DSP...

But I guess we're going in uncharted paths there.
OK, I took the red pill and ordered the miniDSP 2x4 HD and MIC from miniDSP.com, I suppose now will have to wait for couple of weeks for it to arrive.
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