SVS 2000 Pro Series Subwoofers Announced - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 132 Old 12-10-2019, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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SVS 2000 Pro Series Subwoofers Announced

Anyone who has done the legwork of shopping for a high performance subwoofer is familiar with SVS. The company known for its wide variety of subs as well as exceptional customer service. Now SVS has announced the 2000 Pro Series of subs, the replacement for the 2000 Series that is the company's all-time bestselling line.

At CES 2020 SVS demoed its 2000 Pro subwoofer in a system that also featured its latest tower speaker, the Pinnacle Prime. What's remarkable, but also consistent for SVS, is that the overall sound the company achieved at the show had better bass than just about any system aside from the cost-no-object home theaters. As I sat through the SVS demo, it was plainly obvious that the 2000 Pro is among the few I heard at the show which easily covered both the "clean and deep" category and the "wow you can really feel that bass" category.

For delivering best-in-class bang-for-buck bass, the 2000 Pro series subs get an AVS Forum Best of CES 2020 award.



Click here to read more.


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post #2 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 12:08 PM
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Call me shallow, but I have been eyeing those PC subs for some time. I just love the way they look.
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post #3 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 12:48 PM
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Just in time. I just happen to be looking for a new sub. Wasn't sure if I should go ported, or stay with sealed, Might just have to go for that PB-2000 Pro
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post #4 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 01:34 PM
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Really curious about what they wrap those tubes with and how. I'd like to replicate that look on my sonotube subs.
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post #5 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 05:06 PM
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Was really hoping for a dual driver flagship unit, or just something truly different.

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post #6 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 05:17 PM
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Was hoping to see some real, objective data about how they improved the 2000's....8 minutes in and all I got so far was +50 watts.........
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post #7 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 05:32 PM
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I bought a pc4000 and love it. Dont mind the dog bed and christmas gifts ha but in all seriousness I think the PC design svs subs dont get nearly as much as they should. They are far from ugly and they save a ton of space. Fun fact, you can lay them on their sides as well
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post #8 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Was hoping to see some real, objective data about how they improved the 2000's....8 minutes in and all I got so far was +50 watts.........
They also replaced the excellent Peerless XLS driver with some tacky stamped frame thing. I would not call that an "improvement" though. Basically it's a cheaper product at a higher price.
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post #9 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
They also replaced the excellent Peerless XLS driver with some tacky stamped frame thing. I would not call that an "improvement" though. Basically it's a cheaper product at a higher price.
Agreed. The peerless driver is very highly regarded,high quality piece, the new driver looks eerily similar to the stamped basket driver in the PB-1000. I'm sure it will still perform excellently, but it "looks" to be a downgrade


PB-1000 driver




PB-2000 Pro cut away




2000 Pro driver


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post #10 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 10:01 PM
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The only thing that concerns me here is the new price points. $900 for that pb-2000 pro seems like a lot. That's the same price as the HSU VTF-3 mk5 with shipping or the rythmik FVX12 both of which look to be better subs, also what's with the stamped basket? I guess we will have to wait for the reviews to roll out and see how good these are.
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post #11 of 132 Old 12-11-2019, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Kingchip161 View Post
The only thing that concerns me here is the new price points. $900 for that pb-2000 pro seems like a lot. That's the same price as the HSU VTF-3 mk5 with shipping or the rythmik FVX12 both of which look to be better subs, also what's with the stamped basket? I guess we will have to wait for the reviews to roll out and see how good these are.


Or, you could build a sub with a 18” driver. Hell, maybe even a 21”. I realize there’s a lot of SVS fans here - and I use to be one. But, honestly you can get a lot more for your money from PSA, or Rythmik or HSU. Hell, pony up a little more for Seaton or JTR. FRANKLY, I’m not sure how SVS still managed to sell subs for those prices.


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post #12 of 132 Old 12-12-2019, 02:14 PM
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So if the older versions are better what is the best price selection for the best version of the previous sub(s)? I'm still using a Definitive Technology Pro Sub 1000 in my room. Is it a significant improvement?

I don't want to spend the money on a newer form SVS sub if it hasn't improved and the cost is ridiculous.
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post #13 of 132 Old 12-12-2019, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Phoenix View Post
So if the older versions are better what is the best price selection for the best version of the previous sub(s)? I'm still using a Definitive Technology Pro Sub 1000 in my room. Is it a significant improvement?

I don't want to spend the money on a newer form SVS sub if it hasn't improved and the cost is ridiculous.
It's all based on SPL's and what size room you're trying to energize. My understanding is that 2 ports vs 1 is only a difference in output capabilities, when the freq response is so similar between the old and new. I wish they took the time to describe new vs. old and that it's more than just a new amp with app control (for instance, the original 2000's didn't have a DSP). But then tell me, why do I want my sub to have a DSP?

This is the issue with the company pushing to become so mainstream (and grab more of the market share of people still buying audio equipment from BB). Too similar to Bose where they just tell you enough to know it sounds good to get you to purchase it. Now, I'm saying this while a PB2000 sits behind my couch and an old 20-35 PC Plus is in the opposite corner, while my SB1000 is at my buddy's house.

I went to the 3000 series launch last year, and it was fun. When I went to the summer launch of their new towers, they had the PB3000 setup again in the main area for Gary's address and demos. Except this time for the demos I walked around the rest of the giant showroom instead of standing in crowd inside the speaker setup. I knew the 3000 was great, but sweet Jesus it energized the entire space. If the 3000 can do what it did there, I'm honestly unable to imagine what the PB16ultra or PB4000 can accomplish, or why the hell I'd ever need either of those.

That said, now that they've 'trickled down' the 16ultra tech, the only difference left from the top down to the new 2000 series is output capabilities, which is the one thing they've essentially left off of their website. And is why I think they don't have a "compare" button on their site - it's all the same now, just how much noise do you want and how much do you want to spend...
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post #14 of 132 Old 12-12-2019, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Phoenix View Post
So if the older versions are better what is the best price selection for the best version of the previous sub(s)? I'm still using a Definitive Technology Pro Sub 1000 in my room. Is it a significant improvement?

I don't want to spend the money on a newer form SVS sub if it hasn't improved and the cost is ridiculous.
I'm NOT saying the 2000 sub *overall* hasn't improved. The new amp,app features,cabinet/port design are all great - it just looks like the driver design took a back seat here (in my novice opinion) The stamped basket doesn't exactly scream "quality" - especially compared to the previous model's Peerless driver. I also MUCH prefer the new cloth grill over the old metal one!

There's a video on YouTube of the PB-2000 Pro putting in some serious work (looks like EOT intro) and it can certainly get down and boogie. The XTZ 3x12 also used (3x) stamped basket woofers and it performs and measures extremely good so this isn't a massive point of concern - just something to consider



(here's the video,excursion at 2min mark)


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post #15 of 132 Old 12-13-2019, 04:54 AM
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Interesting catch on the driver similarities to the old PB1000 driver. I completely forgot that it has the stamped basket too. To be honest though, a stamped basket doesn't actually mean it's a downgrade at all. It actually doesn't mean anything on its own. You can use stamped basket design even on huge 18" drivers.

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post #16 of 132 Old 12-13-2019, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
Or, you could build a sub with a 18” driver. Hell, maybe even a 21”. I realize there’s a lot of SVS fans here - and I use to be one. But, honestly you can get a lot more for your money from PSA, or Rythmik or HSU. Hell, pony up a little more for Seaton or JTR. FRANKLY, I’m not sure how SVS still managed to sell subs for those prices.


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You underestimate the power of Marketing/Mind-share! Most people don't want to take the time for proper research honestly.

TBH they could do far far worse but most only do 30-200 min of research before making a decisions. SVS is just one of the brands that pop up on every forum/thread/advertisement/youtube video and for those who don't want to put in the time they're a safe bet. They're also accessible worldwide.

I think the other brands (PSA/JTR/HSU/Seaton/Rythmik/Outlaw etc) underestimate the power of YouTube and Amazon reviews(marketing in general). It seems like Monoprice caught on and they're probably doing better than most of the other ID companies atm.
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post #17 of 132 Old 12-13-2019, 06:41 PM
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I was getting ready to order 4 PC-2000s to put in each corner of my room that was designed.

Curious on the difference of performance of these subs for that extra $200 per sub.

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post #18 of 132 Old 12-15-2019, 09:14 AM
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No metal grills ?
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post #19 of 132 Old 12-15-2019, 12:03 PM
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No metal grills ?
Seems like they are going to move to non metal grilles. A lot of people seem to not like how far the metal grilles stick out.

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post #20 of 132 Old 12-16-2019, 08:26 PM
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The XTZ 3x12 also used (3x) stamped basket woofers and it performs and measures extremely good so this isn't a massive point of concern - just something to consider
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Interesting catch on the driver similarities to the old PB1000 driver. I completely forgot that it has the stamped basket too. To be honest though, a stamped basket doesn't actually mean it's a downgrade at all. It actually doesn't mean anything on its own. You can use stamped basket design even on huge 18" drivers.
+1

Audio is about sound, not about looks. You can't derive anything from the appearance of the basket, just as you can't infer performance based solely on the wattage of an amplifier. There's more to the equation than any one aspect taken in isolation can reveal.
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post #21 of 132 Old 12-17-2019, 08:34 AM
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The 2000pro driver looks like a upgrade to me. The basket is the least of my concerns. Compare the depth of the Pro driver to the XLS 12 unit and you will see it's deeper and looks to have more excursion capability.
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post #22 of 132 Old 12-17-2019, 10:28 AM
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On the specs page the SB-2000 Pro's frequency response graph drops off much faster vs the older SB-2000. I know those graphics aren't about max output but is the newer SB-2000 Pro actually worse for sub 20hz stuff?
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post #23 of 132 Old 12-17-2019, 09:18 PM
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Audio is about sound, not about looks. You can't derive anything from the appearance of the basket,
One can certainly infer a lower BOM, and note that the selling price is higher.

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post #24 of 132 Old 12-18-2019, 09:44 AM
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One can certainly infer a lower BOM, and note that the selling price is higher.
The BoM doesn't tell you anything either, the end result is all that matters. That can't be determined visually. The Pro prices are higher, that part is objective. What it results from only SVS knows.

 
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post #25 of 132 Old 12-18-2019, 10:18 AM
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My understanding is that 2 ports vs 1 is only a difference in output capabilities
The number of ports has no affect on output capabilities. The total area and length of the port(s) will affect tuning frequency and port compression.

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I wish they took the time to describe new vs. old and that it's more than just a new amp with app control (for instance, the original 2000's didn't have a DSP). But then tell me, why do I want my sub to have a DSP?
A subwoofer can have a perfectly flat response outdoors or in an anechoic chamber, but as soon as you put it in a room, the room will amplify and cancel out certain frequencies. The DSP allows you to dial in the sub to your room (and placement) to achieve the frequency response you desire.

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That said, now that they've 'trickled down' the 16ultra tech, the only difference left from the top down to the new 2000 series is output capabilities, which is the one thing they've essentially left off of their website. And is why I think they don't have a "compare" button on their site - it's all the same now, just how much noise do you want and how much do you want to spend...
The larger, ported subs will play lower frequencies before hitting their excursion limits. If the primary content is music, it won't matter. But if you plan to listen to movies with content below 20 Hz, the larger, more expensive subs will play content that you never knew existed with the smaller subs.
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post #26 of 132 Old 12-18-2019, 06:17 PM
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...

The history of subwoofer companies decontenting product lines while raising prices is not promising. Take Velodyne, for example. They replaced the innovative and expensive twin-opposed-coil woofer in the DD series with a bog standard, high inductance part in the DD+ series. When the DD series was their flagship people talked about them as a top-tier product. Now Velodyne has basically given up on subwoofers to be a LIDAR company.
Velodyne was still making legitimately good subwoofers until the end. Overpriced, but good. They have been bought out by their German distributor and will supposedly be back in business again soon. Fortunately for me, Rythmik exists as I could neither justify nor afford Velodyne's prices.

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post #27 of 132 Old 12-18-2019, 09:45 PM
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Appearance doesn't have anything to do with sound
Interesting. So you don't agree that one can infer something about the midrange polar response of a loudspeaker with a 10" woofer and a 3/4" tweeter on a 180º waveguide? Or worse, you deny midrange polars have anything to do with sound?

Perhaps you don't have the experience or expertise necessary to draw reasonable (if biased towards optimism) inferences about a loudspeaker's performance by examining its physical structures.
Or you do in fact, but you are choosing to play coy.

The former explanation is the more charitable, because it does not require an ulterior motive. So that is the one I will assume to be true.

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How do you know it's cheaper? Do you have access to their unit costs? Please provide the data, otherwise your assertion tells us you should retract your statement as it's objectively false.
Actually, that's not how logic works. The my statement is only "objectively false" is if it is disproven by, you know, facts. It is not rendered false by puffery and convoluted language deployed to create an impression of disagreement while studiously avoiding definitive statements one may have to eat later.

Let's pivot now from deconstructing clumsy sophistry to employing actual logic. Let's start with the premise that SVS is competent at sourcing parts. I assume there will be no disagreement on that, even though neither one of us (presumably) work in procurement at SVS.
Stamped steel basket woofers are invariably cheaper than cast alloy frame woofers. Just browse through Parts Express, Madisound, Solen, etc. catalogs.
Additionally, looking through the published specifications of the driver there is nothing that stands out to the experienced eye as more costly than the the equivalent XLS. The voicecoil is the same diameter, the magnet is still ceramic, etc. An aluminum pole sleeve requires more aluminum than dual aluminum shorting rings, but may make assembly easier. The only clearly more expensive part has nothing to do with performance: spring terminals instead of perfectly good quick disconnects. Maybe those terminals save SVS assembly time/cost because they mean don't have to buy quick disconnect terminals or attach said terminals to the internal wiring? Otherwise it is a pointless expense.

A better argument is that SVS basically started because someone was able to cheaply procure a large cache of stamped frame TC Sounds woofers with very good motors for their day. So in a way, decontenting this line with a cheaper woofer is a return to their roots. However, had SVS wished to improve their product, Peerless (Tymphany) has a successor to the XLS platform with greater excursion and a larger-diameter voicecoil to improve power handling, as well as a new bespoke cast alloy basket. Admittedly, the only unit in the line sold to hobbyists is a 10. However, Tymphany advertises 10-15" models on their website. From that one can infer Tymphany have the parts on hand to make SVS a custom woofer based on their improved XLS successor, if such was desired.

https://www.tymphany.com/sdf-woofers-subwoofers/

At any rate, I'm done here. I won't be buying this subwoofer, or recommending the line. Previously when asked my go-to recommendation was the SVS SB12/SB2000, because of the excellent Peerless XLS driver, reasonable price, and SVS's reputation for build quality. Those recommendations resulted in over 50 subwoofer sales for SVS. However, the first two reasons are no longer operative in the new model. So I'll find something else to recommend.
10 points to Gryffindor for the use of “puffery!”

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post #28 of 132 Old 12-19-2019, 02:59 AM
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On the specs page the SB-2000 Pro's frequency response graph drops off much faster vs the older SB-2000. I know those graphics aren't about max output but is the newer SB-2000 Pro actually worse for sub 20hz stuff?
You can't compare the old graphs to the new one. SVS changed their way of measuring their subs since the launch of the PB/SB16U.

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post #29 of 132 Old 12-19-2019, 07:54 PM
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As an older pc12 owner I’m interested in reading reviews and first hand user experiences of this new product line. I know there are plenty of good subwoofer companies out there but for my setup I prefer the cylinder sub and am glad Svs continues to make subs in that form factor.
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post #30 of 132 Old 12-20-2019, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Briant73 View Post
As an older pc12 owner I’m interested in reading reviews and first hand user experiences of this new product line. I know there are plenty of good subwoofer companies out there but for my setup I prefer the cylinder sub and am glad Svs continues to make subs in that form factor.
You won't be disappointed with either of their cylinder offerings, both great subs. I don't have the newer PC2000 Pro but I have a PC2000 and a PC4000 and they are both fantastic. Funny, when I saw the teaser on Facebook with the crate I thought it was going to be a dual opposed cylinder sub that they were going to introduce. Wouldn't that be something?
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