2x SVS PB 2000's or 1x SVS PB 4000 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 34 Old 12-19-2019, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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2x SVS PB 2000's or 1x SVS PB 4000

Room is 12' W about 15' deep. I will use it for 90% movies and 10% music all genres and LOUD! I want to feel it in my chest when I hear a gunshot. I was going to get the SVS PB 4000 but my buddy is trying to convince me to do 2x SVS PB 2000's. Only experience i've had with subs have been klipsch all sizes 10"-15". I love their speakers but in my opinion their subs suck and do not give me what i'm looking for.

If there are other options let me know. Budget is $2,000.
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post #2 of 34 Old 12-19-2019, 02:08 PM
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Dual Outlaw X13 $1998 free shipping
You wont get more sub for the money!

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post #3 of 34 Old 12-19-2019, 03:11 PM
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Dual Hsu VTF3 MK5 or dual VTF15 MKII would be my pick for the best subs under $2k. If you are looking for chest kick, these will do so much better than the SVS as they have substantially higher mid bass output.

I believe both of these subs will outperform the X13 Ultra overall, which has good low bass but mediocre mid bass, imo.
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post #4 of 34 Old 12-19-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by notoriouskeef View Post
Room is 12' W about 15' deep. I will use it for 90% movies and 10% music all genres and LOUD! I want to feel it in my chest when I hear a gunshot.
You want the healthy mid-bass more than the deep deep subsonic stuff, in that case...I'd take a pair of the Hsu that bear123 mentioned.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 07:56 AM
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If you want lots of tactile, go with the single PB-4000, as far as mid bass it has lots there also but frankly you can only use so much mid bass anyways.

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post #6 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 08:09 AM
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Drop SVS from consideration if you're searching for chest punching mid bass. Dual 15" HSU VTF-3.5's should give you what you want in that size room.
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post #7 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Sn1per666 View Post
Drop SVS from consideration if you're searching for chest punching mid bass. Dual 15" HSU VTF-3.5's should give you what you want in that size room.
I wouldn't drop the PB-4000, PB-4000 probably has more mid bass than he will ever use.

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post #8 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
I wouldn't drop the PB-4000, PB-4000 probably has more mid bass than he will ever use.

In the $2000 price range the PB4000 has the less mid-bass, both the Rythmik FV18(2-4dB advantage) and PSA V18 IPAL has more mid-bass response than the PB4000.

In fact even the $900 even a single HSU VTF-3 MK5 has more mid-bass response so Dual VTF3 MK5 would have a 6-10dB mid-bass advantage over 1 PB4000
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post #9 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
In the $2000 price range the PB4000 has the less mid-bass, both the Rythmik FV18(2-4dB advantage) and PSA V18 IPAL has more mid-bass response than the PB4000.

In fact even the $900 even a single HSU VTF-3 MK5 has more mid-bass response so Dual VTF3 MK5 would have a 6-10dB mid-bass advantage over 1 PB4000
Sure but you can only use so much mid bass, if he can't even use all the mid bass a PB-4000 can produce whats the point of more output at those frequencies?

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post #10 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
Sure but you can only use so much mid bass, if he can't even use all the mid bass a PB-4000 can produce whats the point of more output at those frequencies?
Depends on the size room and the distance to the MLP and It Also it depends on how loud the OP listens to.

For me personally I wouldn't be maxing out Dual Outlaw X13's since i'm not even maxing out my dual X12's!!

But my best friend often listens to movies at reference levels sometimes +5


But to get back on point the VTF3 MK5 will give the same/better mid bass for half the price so going with duals will obviously offer the benefits of duals for the same price as 1 pb4000.

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Last edited by macgallant; 12-20-2019 at 09:32 AM.
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post #11 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
Depends on the size room and the distance to the MLP and It Also it depends on how loud the OP listens to.

For me personally I wouldn't be maxing out Dual Outlaw X13's since i'm not even maxing out my dual X12's!!

But my best friend often listens to movies at reference levels sometimes +5
Well i'm speaking from experience here, not hearsay. A single PB-4000 has more mid bass than I can use in my 3300 sqft room which is much bigger than his.

Now the tactile performance of a single PB-4000 would not be good enough for me in a 3300 sqft room, it would work but I would need to run it a bit hotter than I would like, but in a room his size that's not going to be a problem at all.

Also not to state the obvious but mid bass is the easiest to make and is also aided by your main speakers, not the case with tactile frequencies.

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post #12 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
Well i'm speaking from experience here, not hearsay. A single PB-4000 has more mid bass than I can use in my 3300 sqft room which is much bigger than his.

Now the tactile performance of a single PB-4000 would not be good enough for me in a 3300 sqft room, it would work but I would need to run it a bit hotter than I would like, but in a room his size that's not going to be a problem at all.

Also not to state the obvious but mid bass is the easiest to make and is also aided by your main speakers, not the case with tactile frequencies.
Thats literally why dual HSU VTF3MK5 makes the most sense for him since a single VTF3MK5 has a stronger 40hz-100hz response than the PB4000

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post #13 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
Thats literally why dual HSU VTF3MK5 makes the most sense for him since a single VTF3MK5 has a stronger 40hz-100hz response than the PB4000
40hz-100hz is mid bass, not tactical bass.

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post #14 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
Well i'm speaking from experience here, not hearsay. A single PB-4000 has more mid bass than I can use in my 3300 sqft room which is much bigger than his.

Now the tactile performance of a single PB-4000 would not be good enough for me in a 3300 sqft room, it would work but I would need to run it a bit hotter than I would like, but in a room his size that's not going to be a problem at all.

Also not to state the obvious but mid bass is the easiest to make and is also aided by your main speakers, not the case with tactile frequencies.
You're speaking from *your* experience. Enough mid-bass for you may not be enough mid-bass for someone else. Further, the OP said he wants to "feel it in his chest" when he hears a gunshot. Chest punch is mid-bass in spades. Therefore, the proper recommendation is for the strongest mid-bass performer.

The sub is for the OP, not you.
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post #15 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 12:37 PM
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I want to correct myself the HSU has 2-3 dB more bass from 31.5hz to 80 hz (not 40hz)

PB4000: 20hz; 112.3 25hz: 113.3 31.5hz: 114.8 40hz: 116.8 50hz: 118.7 63hz: 117.7 80hz: 116.2
VTF3MK5: 20hz: 106.2 25hz: 111.4 31.5hz: 116.2 40hz 119.9 50hz: 120.3 63hz: 119.1 80hz 118.4

also the "chest" slam bass is mostly MID bass not deep LFE which is what the OP is after (50hz to 100hz)

If he wants more LFE and wants to spend all his $2000 on 1 sub then the Rythmik FV18 will serve him better than a PB4000 as it has significantly more ultra LFE output from 10-20hz

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post #16 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
You're speaking from *your* experience. Enough mid-bass for you may not be enough mid-bass for someone else. Further, the OP said he wants to "feel it in his chest" when he hears a gunshot. Chest punch is mid-bass in spades. Therefore, the proper recommendation is for the strongest mid-bass performer.

The sub is for the OP, not you.
But I do feel it in my chest from gun shots, I feel the pull and push of my ear drums in spades. I can feel the thud from closing doors and even thump from foot steps.

So if we don't want to use my experience with the very sub he asked about to convey what to expect who's should we use?

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post #17 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
But I do feel it in my chest from gun shots, I feel the pull and push of my ear drums in spades. I can feel the thud from closing doors and even thump from foot steps.

So if we don't want to use my experience with the very sub he asked about to convey what to expect who's should we use?
Your experience is fine. However, you are arguing for a single PB4000 largely because that is the sub you own and use. I get it--we all like to defend our choices and purchases.

We have measurements, and dual HSU VTF3-MK5's will get much more bang for the OP's buck than a single PB4000. Especially for chest punch. It's all about headroom, and dual subs will give him smoother bass response with proper set up.
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post #18 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 01:30 PM
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Your experience is fine. However, you are arguing for a single PB4000 largely because that is the sub you own and use. I get it--we all like to defend our choices and purchases.

We have measurements, and dual HSU VTF3-MK5's will get much more bang for the OP's buck than a single PB4000. Especially for chest punch. It's all about headroom, and dual subs will give him smoother bass response with proper set up.
I don't think you actually read his post, he is the one who asked about SVS dual PB-2000 vs a single SVS PB-4000. I simply responded to which one I think would be better in his room.

Also bang for buck isn't just output, well at least not for everyone. Looks, Warranty, Customer Service, technology, return policy etc weigh into that as well.

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post #19 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
I don't think you actually read his post, he is the one who asked about SVS dual PB-2000 vs a single SVS PB-4000. I simply responded to which one I think would be better in his room.

Also bang for buck isn't just output, well at least not for everyone. Looks, Warranty, Customer Service, technology, return policy etc way into that as well.
He did ask for suggestion (literally the last thing he asked)

thats all nice but performance should be the #1 priority and the VTF3 MK5 performs better than the PB4000 for what the OP is looking for while costing 60% less.

If the OP really wants the best customer service / warranty / return policy then look no further than PSA (the industry standard IMO)
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post #20 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 01:40 PM
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He did ask for suggestion (literally the last thing he asked)

thats all nice but performance should be the #1 priority and the VTF3 MK5 performs better than the PB4000 for what the OP is looking for while costing 60% less.

If the OP really wants the best customer service / warranty / return policy then look no further than PSA (the industry standard IMO)
Not if they all exceed the output I need to get what I want, there is a point where more output doesn't help. Maybe he would prefer the best looking sub, maybe he would prefer to use the app to fix drops and peaks or just boost the entire mid punch area with an app.

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post #21 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
He did ask for suggestion (literally the last thing he asked)

thats all nice but performance should be the #1 priority and the VTF3 MK5 performs better than the PB4000 for what the OP is looking for while costing 60% less.

If the OP really wants the best customer service / warranty / return policy then look no further than PSA (the industry standard IMO)
To be fair, SVS delivers customer service on the same level as PSA. And SVS's warranty and return policy are just as strong. Which makes sense since Tom co-founded SVS.

That said, dual VTF3-MK5's over a single PB4000 all day, every day, IMHO. And I have no dog in this fight--I'm a PSA owner. I would recommend the PB4000 if the OP were looking for more ULF. But the OP is looking for chest punch. Max output isn't just about output. It's about headroom. And dual VTF3-MK5's won't work nearly as hard as a single PB4000--especially in the midbass.

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post #22 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 02:01 PM
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To be fair, SVS delivers customer service on the same level as PSA. And SVS's warranty and return policy are just as strong. Which makes sense since Tom co-founded SVS.

That said, dual VTF3-MK5's over a single PB4000 all day, every day, IMHO. And I have no dog in this fight--I'm a PSA owner. I would recommend the PB4000 if the OP were looking for more ULF. But the OP is looking for chest punch. Max output isn't just about output. It's about headroom. And dual VTF3-MK5's won't work nearly as hard as a single PB4000--especially in the midbass.
But he has head room and ULF. Not sure if ya'll looked at the numbers but 118dB at 63hz is the same loudness as a turbo fan jet engine taking off, which is actually painful to 100% of the population, good luck not finding that loud enough in a smallish 2300 sqft room.

If that's not headroom I don't know what is. 5 year warranty, looks and technology do appeal to some of us, maybe it does for him as well.

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post #23 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
He did ask for suggestion (literally the last thing he asked)

thats all nice but performance should be the #1 priority and the VTF3 MK5 performs better than the PB4000 for what the OP is looking for while costing 60% less.

If the OP really wants the best customer service / warranty / return policy then look no further than PSA (the industry standard IMO)
To be fair, SVS delivers customer service on the same level as PSA. And SVS's warranty and return policy are just as strong. Which makes sense since Tom co-founded SVS.

That said, dual VTF3-MK5's over a single PB4000 all day, every day, IMHO. And I have no dog in this fight--I'm a PSA owner. I would recommend the PB4000 if the OP were looking for more ULF. But the OP is looking for chest punch. Max output isn't just about output. It's about headroom. And dual VTF3-MK5's won't work nearly as hard as a single PB4000--especially in the midbass.
Even then if he was looking for Ultra LFE the rythmik FV18 has more LFE output and more Mid bass AND cost $200 less + servo subs sound tighter!

IMO the PB4000 is priced oddly and way too high. Its an amazing sub but that price.... .....

I'm into audio first and foremost for the sound. Looks matter but there's no hidding a sub once you get to 12" sub.

I know my X12 is overpriced unless on a killer sale and I'll be the first to admit it 🙂!
IMO there's nothing worse than fanboys in ANY industry but we cant expect everyone to be 100% objective.

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post #24 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 02:29 PM
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But he has head room and ULF. Not sure if ya'll looked at the numbers but 118dB at 63hz is the same loudness as a turbo fan jet engine taking off, which is actually painful to 100% of the population, good luck not finding that loud enough in a smallish 2300 sqft room.

If that's not headroom I don't know what is. 5 year warranty, looks and technology do appeal to some of us, maybe it does for him as well.
118 dB at 63 Hz is different from 118 dB at 315-6300 Hz, which is the frequency range for a jet engine. the lower the frequency, the less sensitive we are to the volume level.
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post #25 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 03:04 PM
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118 dB at 63 Hz is different from 118 dB at 315-6300 Hz, which is the frequency range for a jet engine. the lower the frequency, the less sensitive we are to the volume level.
Less sensitive in some ways but more sensitive in other ways. It won’t quite sound as loud but it will feel louder.

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post #26 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 03:18 PM
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He could wait for one of the holiday outlet sales .. like the one probably for xmas or new years and get a no damage pb4000 for $1599 like I did on cyber monday sale.

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post #27 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 03:38 PM
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He could wait for one of the holiday outlet sales .. like the one probably for xmas or new years and get a no damage pb4000 for $1599 like I did on cyber monday sale.
Monolith 15 surpasses the pb4000 performance in extension, mid bass etc. And it only cost $1338. You can buy this anytime.

@$1599 you may as well spend the extra $200 and grab the Rythmik FV18 which is a significant step up from the pb4000

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post #28 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 04:20 PM
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The OP likes to listen loud with a focus on mid-bass I don't think a single PB-4000 would suit him unless he could get 2 and that is far over budget. If $2,000ish was my budget I would be emailing Tom (PSA) to see if he had any outlet V3611-12 in stock.
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post #29 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 04:26 PM
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I wouldn't drop the PB-4000, PB-4000 probably has more mid bass than he will ever use.
lol, right. SVS are weak just about everywhere when compared to bigger and better subs that cost less, the return on investment with SVS is awful. When it came to midbass, my two PB16s didn't equal one of my PSA V3611s.
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Last edited by Kothoga; 12-20-2019 at 04:31 PM.
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post #30 of 34 Old 12-20-2019, 04:38 PM
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So if we don't want to use my experience with the very sub he asked about to convey what to expect who's should we use?
Mine, as I had two PB16 Ultras and they are no where close to my two PSA V3611s when it comes to chest slam from mid bass. Night and day difference, the PB16 dug a little deeper in my room but there was no advantage to that over getting punched in the chest by shotgun blasts.

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