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post #1 of 8 Old 01-08-2020, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Advice on a subwoofer(s) primarily for music

I have lurked and done a bunch of research on these forums and elsewhere and have finally decided to take the plunge to get what I hope to be an end-game subwoofer for me. Here is my basic information.

I am located in Hawaii, so all bets on prices you see on the internet are not in the cards for me. I've corresponded with the various ID companies and in general, I can expect to add about $300+ per 15 inch sub and closer to $500 per 18 inch sub. I don't know if it is even feasible to get into the really large sub realm. Given the added shipping costs, I am not going to be able to demo and return anything, so what I end up buying will be it. Also, the market for used subs in the category and price point I am looking for is basically non-existent.
My room is a living room approximately 4800 cubic feet with an open kitchen that adds about another 1100 cubic feet. It is not a dedicated listening area and I (well really my kids) pretty much have stuff everywhere. It looks like Toy R Us reopened for business in my living room.
My existing gear is a denon (soon to be yamaha) avr, Klipsch epic c3s and dual Hsu vtf-2.
In terms of usage, it will be 90/10 music/HT.
Music wise I listen to just about anything from classical to heavy metal. I would also note that I only listen in the primary listening position maybe 50% of the time. Between doing things around the house and having little ones playing around, I don't really do any critical listening. I have to save that for my headphones.
Volume wise, I probably spend the bulk of my time listening around -30 to -20 on the avr so I am not looking for reference level output.
Budget is $2000-3000.

In terms of what I am looking for, obviously the big thing is gaining more output in general and headroom. Not surprisingly, my Hsu's are pretty inadequate in the space I have. I have my existing sub gains set pretty conservatively because I don't want to push them beyond their limits. Since my use is primarily music, I am mostly looking for output in the 30-80Hz region. Ulf is not a big deal to me and realistically, I probably wouldn't really hear/feel much ulf given my room and budget anyway. I am looking for ported over sealed because of the size of the room they are currently in (and in terms of future planning, I anticipate any move would be to a bigger place). The main reason I would consider a lower tuned port is to shift the group delay as far down the frequency spectrum as I can. I'm open to one bigger sub even though I know the benefit of dual subs. Again this comes back to the added shipping cost I will incur. WAF has a pretty high threshold. My wife has seen the evolution from bookshelf speakers to the current epics, which are 100 lbs towers so another 100+ box is doable. Oh and last thing, I am not looking for DIY. I have neither the time nor interest.

What I am considering right now is either dual 15s, either vtf-3s, fvx-15s or v1512s (or the df to save a little). I could also go with a single 18, either a v1812 or a f18. I've read about the ipal drivers from PSA, but am not sure that I really need it.
I don't know if some of the big boys like the tv3612, fv25hp or jtr 2400 are even feasible given the costs of shipping. They would be doable if the added cost of shipping were $500, but I suspect it would be quite a bit higher.

So given the above situation and my options, what do you think?
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post #2 of 8 Old 01-08-2020, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwong28 View Post
I have lurked and done a bunch of research on these forums and elsewhere and have finally decided to take the plunge to get what I hope to be an end-game subwoofer for me. Here is my basic information.

I am located in Hawaii, so all bets on prices you see on the internet are not in the cards for me. I've corresponded with the various ID companies and in general, I can expect to add about $300+ per 15 inch sub and closer to $500 per 18 inch sub. I don't know if it is even feasible to get into the really large sub realm. Given the added shipping costs, I am not going to be able to demo and return anything, so what I end up buying will be it. Also, the market for used subs in the category and price point I am looking for is basically non-existent.
My room is a living room approximately 4800 cubic feet with an open kitchen that adds about another 1100 cubic feet. It is not a dedicated listening area and I (well really my kids) pretty much have stuff everywhere. It looks like Toy R Us reopened for business in my living room.
My existing gear is a denon (soon to be yamaha) avr, Klipsch epic c3s and dual Hsu vtf-2.
In terms of usage, it will be 90/10 music/HT.
Music wise I listen to just about anything from classical to heavy metal. I would also note that I only listen in the primary listening position maybe 50% of the time. Between doing things around the house and having little ones playing around, I don't really do any critical listening. I have to save that for my headphones.
Volume wise, I probably spend the bulk of my time listening around -30 to -20 on the avr so I am not looking for reference level output.
Budget is $2000-3000.

In terms of what I am looking for, obviously the big thing is gaining more output in general and headroom. Not surprisingly, my Hsu's are pretty inadequate in the space I have. I have my existing sub gains set pretty conservatively because I don't want to push them beyond their limits. Since my use is primarily music, I am mostly looking for output in the 30-80Hz region. Ulf is not a big deal to me and realistically, I probably wouldn't really hear/feel much ulf given my room and budget anyway. I am looking for ported over sealed because of the size of the room they are currently in (and in terms of future planning, I anticipate any move would be to a bigger place). The main reason I would consider a lower tuned port is to shift the group delay as far down the frequency spectrum as I can. I'm open to one bigger sub even though I know the benefit of dual subs. Again this comes back to the added shipping cost I will incur. WAF has a pretty high threshold. My wife has seen the evolution from bookshelf speakers to the current epics, which are 100 lbs towers so another 100+ box is doable. Oh and last thing, I am not looking for DIY. I have neither the time nor interest.

What I am considering right now is either dual 15s, either vtf-3s, fvx-15s or v1512s (or the df to save a little). I could also go with a single 18, either a v1812 or a f18. I've read about the ipal drivers from PSA, but am not sure that I really need it.
I don't know if some of the big boys like the tv3612, fv25hp or jtr 2400 are even feasible given the costs of shipping. They would be doable if the added cost of shipping were $500, but I suspect it would be quite a bit higher.

So given the above situation and my options, what do you think?
You would be happy with any of the Rythmik subs for music and you could ask @enricoclaudio for a shipping cost estimate. If its reasonable, the FV25HP would be the one to go for especially if you are considering one sub only

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #3 of 8 Old 01-08-2020, 09:51 PM
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You would probably do fine with any of them. Rythmik is proven to be low distortion and very musical, and the new PSA are probably similar. Tbh, if you aren't going to be doing any critical listening, you might not even notice any difference between the 3 models. One advantage with PSA might be getting the down firing version, both saving you money, and keeping the drivers away from little fingers.
All 3 give good to very good customer service, although that will probably be complicated living in Hawaii.

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post #4 of 8 Old 01-09-2020, 07:28 AM
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Might save some $$$ on shipping if you go the DIY route.
Rythmik sells subwoofers in KIT form, all you need is furniture shop to build a box for you out of 3/4 MDF. Sub boxes can be even be made to look like end tables

Last edited by qguy; 01-09-2020 at 07:40 AM.
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post #5 of 8 Old 01-09-2020, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
You would be happy with any of the Rythmik subs for music and you could ask @enricoclaudio for a shipping cost estimate. If its reasonable, the FV25HP would be the one to go for especially if you are considering one sub only
Shipping quote on an FV25 came in at $800 so that's a tough pill to swallow. Then again, 2 smaller subs with additional shipping cost of almost $400 each is basically the same. I guess it comes back to the often asked question of whether one FV25 would be better than say 2 or FV15HP or even 15FVX. In that case, go dual?

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Might save some $$$ on shipping if you go the DIY route.
Rythmik sells subwoofers in KIT form, all you need is furniture shop to build a box for you out of 3/4 MDF. Sub boxes can be even be made to look like end tables
Not inclined to go the DIY route, but I will keep that in mind. Thanks
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post #6 of 8 Old 01-09-2020, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwong28 View Post
Shipping quote on an FV25 came in at $800 so that's a tough pill to swallow. Then again, 2 smaller subs with additional shipping cost of almost $400 each is basically the same. I guess it comes back to the often asked question of whether one FV25 would be better than say 2 or FV15HP or even 15FVX. In that case, go dual?



Not inclined to go the DIY route, but I will keep that in mind. Thanks
You can buy SVS subs from Crutchfield and they will ship them free. Return shipping if needed, you would need to check with them. If the product is defective they will pay for the return shipping though.

So something like a pair of PB4000s would cost about the same as a pair of Rythmik or PSA 15s once you add shipping to those. Or you could save about $1000 with something like a pair of the PB/PC2000 pros. May or may not have enough output depending on your preferences.

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post #7 of 8 Old 01-09-2020, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
You would probably do fine with any of them. Rythmik is proven to be low distortion and very musical, and the new PSA are probably similar. Tbh, if you aren't going to be doing any critical listening, you might not even notice any difference between the 3 models. One advantage with PSA might be getting the down firing version, both saving you money, and keeping the drivers away from little fingers.
All 3 give good to very good customer service, although that will probably be complicated living in Hawaii.
That makes sense. But part of what I am planning to do is buy more subwoofer than what I currently need with the idea that if/when I move to a place where I can have a better setup, my sub(s) should be good there too. Once I have something I like, I tend to hold on to that gear for a long time. Heck the sub in my SUV is about 20 years old.
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post #8 of 8 Old 01-13-2020, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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You can buy SVS subs from Crutchfield and they will ship them free. Return shipping if needed, you would need to check with them. If the product is defective they will pay for the return shipping though.

So something like a pair of PB4000s would cost about the same as a pair of Rythmik or PSA 15s once you add shipping to those. Or you could save about $1000 with something like a pair of the PB/PC2000 pros. May or may not have enough output depending on your preferences.
I would imagine the level of performance of the PB4000 vs. the 15 inch Rythmik or PSA is probably about even? Any pair of those with the added shipping for the Rythmik and PSAs push over the high end of my budget (over $3,000). At that point, it opens the door of moving up to a single higher level sub like the jtr2400 (the really big ones like the FV25 or TV36 are out because shipping is about a grand). With the shipping costs, the dual route is more than a single jtr.

I know the general advice is to go with 2 smaller subs vs. 1 bigger sub. However, I've seen posts from different posters being happier going from dual lesser subs to a single better one, which makes this decision tougher. In my case, I have some limitations in that I pretty much can only place my sub(s) along the front wall, either inside or outside of the 2 mains (if outside, 1 would be in a corner and 1 would not). I am also not that interested in doing fine tweaking and would not likely get a umik and REW. In that case, would the advice be to still go with duals?
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