Can't decide between HSU and Rhythmik - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

First let me say, I have searched this topic on the forums and read every post I could find. I'm looking at the ported versions as I'm 75% movies, 15% music, 10% gaming. I have a Denon x4500 and Klipsch 5.1.2 setup. It's my living room to my above garage apartment, second floor, hardwood. Living room is big (17x15) with vaulting ceilings that go from 8' to 11, opens to a small foyer (3.5x2.5x8) that has the doors to the 2 bedrooms and on the other side of the living room, it opens to my kitchen(8x11.5x8) and a staircase (opening is included in the kitchen dimensions) going downstairs to a long hallway to the entrance of my house. I calculate the Cubic feet 3356. I didn't include the long hallway at the bottom of the stairs in that as it does zig zag and sound would hit a wall I think by that point although I'm not 100% in how accoustics physics works.

The general consensus I get is that HSU is the best "bang for your buck", but that Rythmik outperforms in accuracy. I found a few threads on here where people have owned both and claimed the Rhymik was noticibly better in clarity and accuracy.. The price difference is significant. The HSU 15H is 1073 shipped, but that compares to the FVX15 Rhymik which is "only" 400 watts. Although TBH, I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes here for my room.

Since my space is so big, I think I'd need to wind up with duals. Dual FVX15s is about 2800. That's over my budget for now. I could afford one, but might not get the second one for 6 months or whenever I could justify it. it's possible I'd even be happy with just one.

At 1750$ shipped, I could just nearly justify dual VTF MK3s. I could buy one and then if I liked it and it felt needed grab the second one sooner.

I'm also open to the VTF 15H. I don't have any size or WAF constraints. But since that puts the price up to 1073 shipped, I might stick with 1 for awhile if I went with that. It would be about the same as the Rhymik FV15 and I'm not sure what the trade offs are here for my specific situation? Maybe the HSU would fill the room better but the Rhymik would be slightly cleaner?

Any thoughts on my situation? Is Dual FVX15 (400 watt) enough for my room? Or would I be better with the HSU VTF, either the M or the K?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 06:48 AM
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the rythmik fv18 is what you need. research that model and buy it.
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post #3 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 06:57 AM
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Just an fyi that the FVX15 is $1099, shipped.

Since movies are your main concern, the HSU will be just as good as Rythmik.

If your max budget is ~$1400 now - and maybe another $1400 later on - the Rythmik FV15HP is definitely worth considering, as is the PSA V1512.
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post #4 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
the rythmik fv18 is what you need. research that model and buy it.
This is 1800$. It would be really hard for me to justify 2 of those.
Do you think one of them would be better than Dual HSU VTF MK3? Or better than dual Rythmik FVX15?
Or are you saying that I wouldn't be able to achieve optimum bass with dual 15s due to the size of my room?

thanks for the help!
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post #5 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Just an fyi that the FVX15 is $1099, shipped.

Since movies are your main concern, the HSU will be just as good as Rythmik.

If your max budget is ~$1400 now - and maybe another $1400 later on - the Rythmik FV15HP is definitely worth considering, as is the PSA V1512.
Thanks for the reply. So you are saying that the more "refined sound" of the Ryhmik would mostly just be noticeable on Music, and not so much for Home Theater or even games?
If that's the case, then for sure it sounds like HSU is better for me.
The people who compared the two saying Rhymik was better didn't mention if it was HT or music specifically.

Thanks again!
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post #6 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Thanks for the reply. So you are saying that the more "refined sound" of the Ryhmik would mostly just be noticeable on Music, and not so much for Home Theater or even games?
If that's the case, then for sure it sounds like HSU is better for me.
The people who compared the two saying Rhymik was better didn't mention if it was HT or music specifically.

Thanks again!
The difference is more pronounced in music. The FV15HP will dig deeper and will give you some weight to the bass.

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post #7 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Dough
Thanks for the reply. So you are saying that the more "refined sound" of the Ryhmik would mostly just be noticeable on Music, and not so much for Home Theater or even games?
If that's the case, then for sure it sounds like HSU is better for me.
The people who compared the two saying Rhymik was better didn't mention if it was HT or music specifically. ...
When people comment on a subwoofer's sound quality it usually is in reference to music. How much better one actually sounds compared to another may be very subjective. Primarily for HT, get a well-rated HSU (or two) and enjoy. If you can swing the highly-rated FV15HP, go that route and avoid the "what if?".
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post #8 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
This is 1800$. It would be really hard for me to justify 2 of those.
Do you think one of them would be better than Dual HSU VTF MK3? Or better than dual Rythmik FVX15?
Or are you saying that I wouldn't be able to achieve optimum bass with dual 15s due to the size of my room?

thanks for the help!

I own a fv15hp and it wasnt enough for me so added a fv25hp which just gets me to acceptable/happy at low/mid 120's db spl. 1 fv15hp got me about 115db spl.


the fv15hp might chuff with movies that has super low ulf like end of tomorrow cut scene at reference. multiple subs usually just smooths out bass throughout space.



but if its just you, get the 18 incher and put behind seat

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post #9 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Thanks for the reply. So you are saying that the more "refined sound" of the Ryhmik would mostly just be noticeable on Music, and not so much for Home Theater or even games?
If that's the case, then for sure it sounds like HSU is better for me.
The people who compared the two saying Rhymik was better didn't mention if it was HT or music specifically.

Thanks again!
In the price range and with the subs your looking at it's hard to go wrong with either TBH. I have a Rythmik LVX12 and love it. Both will work well in HT situations. IMO the Rythmik because of the servo control tends to perform more like a sealed sub, even though it's ported, because the servo tech give it more precise control of the woofer. The Rythmik will reach lower, which is usually better for movies, but the HSU from what I have heard has more tactile response. But being that your on a second floor you should get some decent room gain as well.
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post #10 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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In the price range and with the subs your looking at it's hard to go wrong with either TBH. I have a Rythmik LVX12 and love it. Both will work well in HT situations. IMO the Rythmik because of the servo control tends to perform more like a sealed sub, even though it's ported, because the servo tech give it more precise control of the woofer. The Rythmik will reach lower, which is usually better for movies, but the HSU from what I have heard has more tactile response. But being that your on a second floor you should get some decent room gain as well.
Thanks. Can you explain that a little more? Why does the HSU have an advantage on a second floor? Not sure what you mean by "getting room gain"? I'm still learning about all this stuff
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-14-2020, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Thanks. Can you explain that a little more? Why does the HSU have an advantage on a second floor? Not sure what you mean by "getting room gain"? I'm still learning about all this stuff
Well they would both get a bit of room gain being on a second floor. Room gain, I don't know the technical explanation others here can probably explain better, but you end up with better tactile response on a second floor, or a suspended floor. Like my house is on pier and beam if you know what that is. My floor in almost the entire house will vibrate when I turn my single LVX12 up. In my little 1000 square foot house the doors and windows rattle, because the vibration generated by the sub is being "magnified" because my house isn't on a concrete foundation. This is from the Anthem website

"Room gain is the slight rise in upper-bass and mid-bass frequencies that naturally occurs when sound is reinforced by the boundaries of a room: the floor, ceiling, and walls. Research has shown that the human brain is aware of this gain, but we filter it out of our conscious experience. Scientists theorize that we evolved to push it into the subconscious. Otherwise, we'd be constantly distracted by it.

When we walk into a room, we are aware of room gain, but our brains are processing its effect in the background. When we listen to a music system or home theater system in a room, research has shown that our subconscious brain expects to hear the effect. When the sound has a flat frequency response (i.e., with room gain removed), our minds are aware that something is wrong. Because of this, understanding the natural bass reinforcement of a room and preserving it is crucial when correcting the room’s sonic problems."

To be honest I would start with 1 of either, they are both good subs, I am partial based on what I own but at the same time I can't compare with the HSU because I have never heard it. I chose the Rythmik because to me it seemed to do more with less power. I am NOT saying that is %100 true. It also doesn't hurt that they are "local" to me being in Texas. But I can say this much either way you go you will be happy they are BOTH very well liked around here.
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-15-2020, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
I own a fv15hp and it wasnt enough for me so added a fv25hp which just gets me to acceptable/happy at low/mid 120's db spl. 1 fv15hp got me about 115db spl.


the fv15hp might chuff with movies that has super low ulf like end of tomorrow cut scene at reference. multiple subs usually just smooths out bass throughout space.



but if its just you, get the 18 incher and put behind seat
Can you PM me? Had a few questions but it wont let me PM you
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-16-2020, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Thanks for the reply. So you are saying that the more "refined sound" of the Ryhmik would mostly just be noticeable on Music, and not so much for Home Theater or even games?
If that's the case, then for sure it sounds like HSU is better for me.
The people who compared the two saying Rhymik was better didn't mention if it was HT or music specifically.

Thanks again!
Hi Drew, I just replied to your post on the Rythmik thread but wanted to add a reply here also after I saw this. The idea you read frequently on the forums that for movies you won't notice much difference in the musical qualities of a subwoofer is false IMO because a huge part of almost every film is music - soundtracks with real instruments and real orchestras played by real musicians delivering a vital part of the nuance and emotion of a good film, reproduced in glorious lossless audio on blu-ray and UHD discs. The quality of music reproduction on home theater matters. In the various movie rooms I've had in different houses over the last 15 years I have always been able to discern the difference in the many subs I've owned in the reproduction of music during films.

I have a soft spot for HSU because that brand was my first sub that sounded good on music and not just explosions, and I have great respect for Dr. Hsu. In many ways I wish I had kept my dual HSU's from 2006 and completely stayed off these forums all these years But I did go through various upgrades and brands including SVS and Seaton, and when I got to Rythmik seven years ago I stopped changing brands. I've had Rythmik F12, L22's, and currently FV18's and to me this is how accurate, clean, refined bass should sound.

Ross

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I like dual HSU VTF-3mk5HP for $1710.
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-16-2020, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot everyone.
Because of you maniacs I've decided to get the FV18. Seems like a better upgrade path than dual HSUs or FV14s.

I also mostly just watch movies with 1 other person so I'm OK with it only sounding perfect from my one or two spots .

Can't wait to see how it sounds!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Thanks a lot everyone.
Because of you maniacs I've decided to get the FV18. Seems like a better upgrade path than dual HSUs or FV14s.

I also mostly just watch movies with 1 other person so I'm OK with it only sounding perfect from my one or two spots .

Can't wait to see how it sounds!
Awesome! You've made a superb choice.

Ross

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post #17 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Thanks a lot everyone.
Because of you maniacs I've decided to get the FV18. Seems like a better upgrade path than dual HSUs or FV14s.

I also mostly just watch movies with 1 other person so I'm OK with it only sounding perfect from my one or two spots .

Can't wait to see how it sounds!


Oh wow. That is an outstanding sub! That is how you step into the big leagues! Well done.


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post #18 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
I own a fv15hp and it wasnt enough for me so added a fv25hp which just gets me to acceptable/happy at low/mid 120's db spl. 1 fv15hp got me about 115db spl.


the fv15hp might chuff with movies that has super low ulf like end of tomorrow cut scene at reference. multiple subs usually just smooths out bass throughout space.



but if its just you, get the 18 incher and put behind seat
Your FV15HP is the older model before it was revised with 4" ports no?
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post #19 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 09:08 AM
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Your FV15HP is the older model before it was revised with 4" ports no?

my fv15hp has 2 ports and fv25hp has 3 ports

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post #20 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
my fv15hp has 2 ports and fv25hp has 3 ports
I am aware of that. Not sure if you keep up on Rythmik products but there is a revised FV15HP that now has dual 4" ports instead of 3.5" ports. I was just curious what version you had.
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post #21 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Thanks a lot everyone.
Because of you maniacs I've decided to get the FV18. Seems like a better upgrade path than dual HSUs or FV14s.

I also mostly just watch movies with 1 other person so I'm OK with it only sounding perfect from my one or two spots .

Can't wait to see how it sounds!


Full Review and all types of performance graphs https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5b32...2553?_k=8w8qd9


FV18 12Hz Tuning / 1 Vent Blocked - https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5b32...2553?_k=8w8qd9


FV18 16Hz Tuning / All Vents Open https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5b32...2553?_k=4esxxu


FV18 12Hz Tuning / 1 Vent Blocked "OUTDOOR"




FV18 12Hz Tuning / 1 Vent Blocked "IN ROOM"


Last edited by MrGrey; 01-17-2020 at 09:43 AM.
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post #22 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I am aware of that. Not sure if you keep up on Rythmik products but there is a revised FV15HP that now has dual 4" ports instead of 3.5" ports. I was just curious what version you had.
I have old version I guess....they are 4 yrs old
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post #23 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post


Full Review and all types of performance graphs https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5b32...2553?_k=8w8qd9


FV18 12Hz Tuning / 1 Vent Blocked - https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5b32...2553?_k=8w8qd9


FV18 16Hz Tuning / All Vents Open https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5b32...2553?_k=4esxxu


FV18 12Hz Tuning / 1 Vent Blocked "OUTDOOR"




FV18 12Hz Tuning / 1 Vent Blocked "IN ROOM"



To this add +3db 40hz and above for the paper cone and revised ports for the FV18


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post #24 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
I have old version I guess....they are 4 yrs old
Thanks! I was just curious because you mentioned chuffing down low and I hoped that was not the case if it was the 4" port version.
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post #25 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 10:00 AM
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Not sure if you keep up on Rythmik products but there is a revised FV15HP that now has dual 4" ports instead of 3.5" ports.
I believe the newer Rythmik sub still has the 3.5" ports, it just flares out to 4" at the openings.
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post #26 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 10:21 AM
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To this add +3db 40hz and above for the paper cone and revised ports for the FV18


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Are there side by side comparisons of output for metal vs paper cone? I'm considering one or a pair of these, but not sure which is best for me. If the paper cone has more output, what is the downside, more distortion?
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post #27 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
Are there side by side comparisons of output for metal vs paper cone? I'm considering one or a pair of these, but not sure which is best for me. If the paper cone has more output, what is the downside, more distortion?
Not exactly side by side. Yes the paper cone is slightly less "clean" than the alu but nothing audible as the Rythmik subs are so low distortion to begin with

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #28 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Not exactly side by side. Yes the paper cone is slightly less "clean" than the alu but nothing audible as the Rythmik subs are so low distortion to begin with
Yeah, my understanding is the the increased distortion with paper cones may add to the perception of "fatness" as well as midbass tactile response. Right now I have a pair of VTF3.5 and I'm not entirely happy. They are great for music, with plenty of headroom 30hz and above. But movie scenes with very low LFE cause chuffing at levels I listen to, which is distracting and breaks immersion. I figure the FV18 (either model) will give a huge upgrade in output at and below 20hz without chuffing.
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post #29 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 10:40 AM
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Can't decide between HSU and Rhythmik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
Yeah, my understanding is the the increased distortion with paper cones may add to the perception of "fatness" as well as midbass tactile response. Right now I have a pair of VTF3.5 and I'm not entirely happy. They are great for music, with plenty of headroom 30hz and above. But movie scenes with very low LFE cause chuffing at levels I listen to, which is distracting and breaks immersion. I figure the FV18 (either model) will give a huge upgrade in output at and below 20hz without chuffing.


Yes that would be a huge upgrade. The paper cone is highly recommended by Brian and Enrico for HT.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #30 of 31 Old 01-17-2020, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Yes that would be a huge upgrade. The paper cone is highly recommended by Brian and Enrico for HT.


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If paper cone only improves output above 40hz, why would it be advantageous in my situation?
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