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post #1 of 137 Old 01-14-2020, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Final choices for dual subwoofers

Thanks to everyone in the various threads for all of your help,. I have narrowed down my choices to either Hsu VTF 15h Mk2 or their ULS 15, Rythmik FVX15 or their E15 o F15hp or lastly an entry level sealed/ported PSA sub or maybe a b stock PSA dual 15 in sub. My room is 10x11x9 and has door in lower left corner that I can leave open or shut. I do movies at reference or near and music pretty loud too. Rock, blues, contemporary jazz and some electronic for examples. PSA and Rythmik said sealed subs. My budget is around 2k. Room has plenty of natural room treatment if you will with big area rug, heavy drapes, art/wall hangings, bookshelves, etc. I value bass most from 20hz on up. ULF is a bonus but I do like alot of SPL. That should be a good start. I've got the speakers and AVR figured out. 5.2 system. Feel free to question my thinking as I'd really like to nail this! Appreciate you all. Best, Steve
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post #2 of 137 Old 01-14-2020, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Huss
… My room is 10x11x9 and has door in lower left corner that I can leave open or shut. I do movies at reference or near and music pretty loud too. Rock, blues, contemporary jazz and some electronic for examples. … My budget is around 2k. … I value bass most from 20hz on up. ULF is a bonus but I do like alot of SPL. …
2 x PSA S1512DF ($2,100, shipped). 960W (RMS) amp for plenty of output up top and extension to 19Hz (which cabin gain in that tiny room should easily drive down to the low teens).
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post #3 of 137 Old 01-14-2020, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking at those hard. They have dual S3010 in B stock for 2299 too. Those would be a pretty good upgrade in SPL over most frequency I think? I should prolly chat Tom up. Those from 2018? Thanks much @eljaycanuck again!
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post #4 of 137 Old 01-14-2020, 01:25 PM
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Dual S3010s would be very awesome.

In your other thread, you wrote:
Quote:
… I would like to have plenty of headroom (right term?) but not waste too much … What sub gives me enough and a little more for that room but no overkill? …
Unfortunately, what qualifies as "overkill" is subjective. S3010s might be overkill, but they might not. One thing's for sure: You won't be wondering "what if?".
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post #5 of 137 Old 01-14-2020, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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True very subjective. I'd rather have more in the tank than not. Can always turn the sub down I'm not sure I can get this week so I'll have to see if they are still around next week. It may be worth waiting for B stock PSA regardless.
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post #6 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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So with the understanding that what sounds good to me is subjective I really need some strong opinions on what you all like.

Thanks to everyone in the various threads for all of your help,. I have narrowed down my choices to either Hsu VTF 15h Mk2 or their ULS 15, Rythmik FVX15 or their E15 o F15hp or lastly an entry level sealed/ported PSA sub or maybe a b stock PSA dual 15 in sub. My room is 10x11x9 and has door in lower left corner that I can leave open or shut. I do movies at reference or near and music pretty loud too. Rock, blues, contemporary jazz and some electronic for examples. PSA and Rythmik said sealed subs. My budget is around 2k. Room has plenty of natural room treatment if you will with big area rug, heavy drapes, art/wall hangings, bookshelves, etc. I value bass most from 20hz on up. ULF is a bonus but I do like alot of SPL. That should be a good start. I've got the speakers and AVR figured out. 5.2 system. Feel free to question my thinking as I'd really like to nail this! Appreciate you all. Best, Steve

Update: could do a little over 2k if a significant bump in performance. I have always had ported subs, Hsu VTF 15h and Mk2 duals and also duals in Klipsch R 115 SW's before that. I have been recommended sealed by both Tom at PSA and Enrico at Rythmik. I am a little nervous going to sealed but am willing if they have a lot of oooomph! I am cool with sub 20hz but really want alot of performance 20hz and up. With the size room I have do you think that some of the Rythmik subs myriad of sub adjustment options would be a plus to dial in subs? Notwithstanding proper room placement, Audyssey XT32 and Umik/REW later on.

For what it is worth will be pairing the dual subs with a Denon X3600H, Klipsch RP600M mains, RP 600C center and RP400M for surrounds. So with that what PSA or Rythmik subs would kick my butt the best in your valued opinion? PSA S1512 or V1512? B stock PSA S3010? or maybe Rythmik F15 or FVX15 or could just get the HSU VTY 15h Mk2's again or perhaps ULS-15 Mk2? I think those are my best options. Feel free to offer contrary opnions or to just blow my mind with other awesome suggestions. Thanks, Steve
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post #7 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Huss View Post
So with the understanding that what sounds good to me is subjective I really need some strong opinions on what you all like.

Thanks to everyone in the various threads for all of your help,. I have narrowed down my choices to either Hsu VTF 15h Mk2 or their ULS 15, Rythmik FVX15 or their E15 o F15hp or lastly an entry level sealed/ported PSA sub or maybe a b stock PSA dual 15 in sub. My room is 10x11x9 and has door in lower left corner that I can leave open or shut. I do movies at reference or near and music pretty loud too. Rock, blues, contemporary jazz and some electronic for examples. PSA and Rythmik said sealed subs. My budget is around 2k. Room has plenty of natural room treatment if you will with big area rug, heavy drapes, art/wall hangings, bookshelves, etc. I value bass most from 20hz on up. ULF is a bonus but I do like alot of SPL. That should be a good start. I've got the speakers and AVR figured out. 5.2 system. Feel free to question my thinking as I'd really like to nail this! Appreciate you all. Best, Steve

Update: could do a little over 2k if a significant bump in performance. I have always had ported subs, Hsu VTF 15h and Mk2 duals and also duals in Klipsch R 115 SW's before that. I have been recommended sealed by both Tom at PSA and Enrico at Rythmik. I am a little nervous going to sealed but am willing if they have a lot of oooomph! I am cool with sub 20hz but really want alot of performance 20hz and up. With the size room I have do you think that some of the Rythmik subs myriad of sub adjustment options would be a plus to dial in subs? Notwithstanding proper room placement, Audyssey XT32 and Umik/REW later on.

For what it is worth will be pairing the dual subs with a Denon X3600H, Klipsch RP600M mains, RP 600C center and RP400M for surrounds. So with that what PSA or Rythmik subs would kick my butt the best in your valued opinion? PSA S1512 or V1512? B stock PSA S3010? or maybe Rythmik F15 or FVX15 or could just get the HSU VTY 15h Mk2's again or perhaps ULS-15 Mk2? I think those are my best options. Feel free to offer contrary opnions or to just blow my mind with other awesome suggestions. Thanks, Steve
The most bang for the $$ in sealed or ported is the HSU. Since your room is really small I agree with getting sealed subs. You'll get a ton of room gain and likely have usable output into the low double digits- maybe down to 10hz. Plus sealed subs take up less of your limited floor space.

A pair of S3010s would probably crush your skull in that room when sealed up.

There's really not a bad choice in the bunch.

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post #8 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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"A pair of S3010s would probably crush your skull in that room when sealed up." lol @Kini62 . You are right no bad choices here. I am guessing at the 1k level that HSU is prolly the best but want to see if I bump my budget up a bit if I would get a significant upgrade in performance. If I need to go over $2500 I'll just do the HSU's. Maybe 3 ULS-15 Mk2's?
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post #9 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Huss View Post
"A pair of S3010s would probably crush your skull in that room when sealed up." lol @Kini62. You are right no bad choices here. I am guessing at the 1k level that HSU is prolly the best but want to see if I bump my budget up a bit if I would get a significant upgrade in performance. If I need to go over $2500 I'll just do the HSU's. Maybe 3 ULS-15 Mk2's?

If you go PSA, I'd skip the B stock idea, and get something from the 12 series since you listen to a lot of music. Eljay's idea of 2 1512's or 1 3012 would probably provide better quality sound than the B stock 3010 and give you all the output you need in a 10x11 room. No need to give up SQ to acquire more headroom that you will most likely not use or need.
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post #10 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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@dpc716 are you saying that the S3010 would not sound as good as the S1512 or S3012 for music? Agreed I'd like to have a little extra headroom in reserve for my listening habits but as I'll be in this room for the next 5 years minimum I do not want a huge excess of wasted horsepower. Thanks for your thoughts.
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post #11 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 02:56 PM
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@dpc716 are you saying that the S3010 would not sound as good as the S1512 or S3012 for music? Agreed I'd like to have a little extra headroom in reserve for my listening habits but as I'll be in this room for the next 5 years minimum I do not want a huge excess of wasted horsepower. Thanks for your thoughts.

Correct. I'm not saying the S3010 would sound bad, just that the 12 series would sound better. Caveat, I've heard neither but the PSA thread is full of accounts from people who have heard the older and newer drivers and the difference is reported as significant.


For your situation I'd start with the best sounding sub(s) available and build up with more of the same if I wanted more output. If your room were larger the S3010 option would make more sense.
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post #12 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the PSA thread knowledge @dpc716 !!!! Very excited to be able to have this type of setup.
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post #13 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I hope it is an ok forum protocol to ask directly for help in the manner I am doing here. I've read a lot of PSA and Rythmik owners threads and I think all of you fine folks may have something to tell me. I appreciate any info or criticism you can offer me to put me over the hump. Looking forward to having my very own home theater. @Hopinater , @Alan P , @imureh , @basshead81 , @darthray , @Soulburner and @mthomas47 (if I haven't tapped you out already lol )
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post #14 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Huss View Post
I hope it is an ok forum protocol to ask directly for help in the manner I am doing here. I've read a lot of PSA and Rythmik owners threads and I think all of you fine folks may have something to tell me. I appreciate any info or criticism you can offer me to put me over the hump. Looking forward to having my very own home theater. @Hopinater , @Alan P , @imureh , @basshead81 , @darthray , @Soulburner and @mthomas47 (if I haven't tapped you out already lol )


I personally favor ported especially if you looking for best bang for your buck. I think both Rythmik FV15HPs or the PSA subs with the new B&C woofers would please you with music. The rythmik will dig deeper compared to the PSA unless you step up to the TV36 series which are large subs if you can accommodate them.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
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Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #15 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks @imureh
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post #16 of 137 Old 01-15-2020, 09:14 PM
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In your room I would go PSA S3012. Dual Opposed sealed would crush that room over a very wide frequency range. Rythmik FV15HP would also work well as Ray mentioned.
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post #17 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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The S3012 would be at the top of my list but over budget @basshead81 . What is the next best option in your opinion? Really might come down to Rythmik F15HP or HSU UlS-15 Mk2. Because of cabinet volume the VTF 15h Mk2 would play louder in sealed mode than either of those prior two correct? Thanks much, Steve
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post #18 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 07:16 AM
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The S3012 would be at the top of my list but over budget @basshead81 . What is the next best option in your opinion? Really might come down to Rythmik F15HP or HSU UlS-15 Mk2. Because of cabinet volume the VTF 15h Mk2 would play louder in sealed mode than either of those prior two correct? Thanks much, Steve
I would recommend FV15HP or if sealed F18

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
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post #19 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Also could do either of PSA entry level subs, checking B stock for both Rythmik and PSA too. Thanks for your help from those who have had these brands. Remember $2500. I knew you guys would try and up it 😉.
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post #20 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 08:17 AM
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Also could do either of PSA entry level subs, checking B stock for both Rythmik and PSA too. Thanks for your help from those who have had these brands. Remember $2500. I knew you guys would try and up it 😉.
I missed your budget for duals. At 2500.00 those B stock S3010 would be fantastic. Just because PSA swapped drivers does not mean the previous ones were bad. The driver in the S3010 is a custom Eminence Lab15, similar platform to what Seaton has used in it's Submersive for years and that sub always ranked near the top at GTG in the past. Now it has been mentioned by others that compared the 2, the S3010 sounds thicker then the Submersive...resembles more of a ported sound and has a lot of TR.

The Rythmik FVx15 pair would also work in your room if the HP puts you over budget.


Your room is pretty small so it's not going to be hard to fill that room with quality bass. Even a pair of sealed subs like ULS15 or S1512 would probably get it done.

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post #21 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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It seems like I'm on the right path. Thanks for helping me @basshead81 and @imureh
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post #22 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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So it looks like most folks are leaning towards sealed over ported including Tom at PSA and Enrico at Rythmik for my room. I am still concerned about having enough output 20hz on up even with potential room gain. I have received some very good recommendations on subs that confirmed I was looking at the right ones. I understand that good sub performance will be predicated on me placing subs well, running audyssey xt32 and the using REW/Umik mic (in that order yes?) to get the most out of whatever I get.

So for a sealed shootout PSA S1512 vs. Rythmik F15HP or HSU ULS-15 Mk2, I am guessing these are the closest 3 from each brand? Or should I just grab the PSA V1512DF or Rythmik FX15V or HSU VTF 15h Mk2? One of my biggest questions is am I going to anymore significant boost in output or quality of product from top HSU ported model (even if I run sealed for music) at say $2100 shipped to me with any of the other aforementioned options? Does $2500 spent get me anything more?

I'm being a bit anal about this because this is my 3rd attempt to do a music and/or HT system (sold off the other 2 due to unsatisfactory results, some of that is on me for not researching enough and some is just a tough room) So I am getting all my ducks in a row and if I do everything I can to make the room the best it can be. If I do and know that I will be satisfied. I appreciate your patience with me as well. Trust me almost done./... Until I get said subs and asks for setup help lol. Seriously though I am really just looking for confirmation that I am doing this right. Have read many threads and have been impressed with @ craig john as well if you would chime in. Best, Steve
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post #23 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 01:43 PM
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So it looks like most folks are leaning towards sealed over ported including Tom at PSA and Enrico at Rythmik for my room. I am still concerned about having enough output 20hz on up even with potential room gain. …
Ported or sealed will give you plenty of output above 20Hz. As I understand it:
- cabin gain is more about amplifying output down to and below 20Hz; and
- the shallow FR roll-off of a powerful sealed sub should take better advantage of the substantial cabin gain your tiny room will provide than will the steeper FR roll-off of a ported sub.

FWIW: A buddy of mine had a pair of 18" sealed subs, ~475W each, in a basement (concrete floor) space that was ~2,025 cu.ft. He measured FR down to 10Hz, and when he'd demo stuff (-10dB and up) the tight, couch-shaking, chest-slamming tactile sensation was insane. I can only imagine what something like a pair of 900W+ S1512DFs in your tiny space would sound/feel like.
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post #24 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I feel pretty good now about getting any of the above choices then. Thanks much @eljaycanuck . You have been most helpful throughout this process. Keep em comin!!
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post #25 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 02:46 PM
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... aaaand the winner is?

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post #26 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 02:52 PM
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That is why I said those B stock s3010 would work well in your room. They bridge the gap some between ported and sealed giving you a good balance of extension and output with intense mid bass slam. I don't think you can do better for your room at that B stock price point. They going to give you quite a bit more output below 30hz then all of the single sealed sub options in your budget range and only be down a few db around the port tune area of the ported subs in your budget range.
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post #27 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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All the subs listed are neck and neck. I know there isn't a bad choice in the bunch. @RayGuy any one of those you're rooting for ?
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post #28 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 02:55 PM
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sealed subs sound different from ported subs...rythmik takes pride in making their ported subs to sound as close to sealed as possible but still different. just be aware that they are different. same goes for different port designs sound different. ofc if you arent comparing at same time, all the choices come recommended. good luck.

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post #29 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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sealed subs sound different from ported subs...rythmik takes pride in making their ported subs to sound as close to sealed as possible but still different. just be aware that they are different. same goes for different port designs sound different. ofc if you arent comparing at same time, all the choices come recommended. good luck.
@torii Thanks for the knowledge and encouragement
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post #30 of 137 Old 01-16-2020, 04:26 PM
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All the subs listed are neck and neck. I know there isn't a bad choice in the bunch. @RayGuy any one of those you're rooting for ?
In a smaller room, I would choose a sealed sub, to mitigate the lower frequency reinforcement that a smaller room perpetuates, causing the lower bass notes to be become thick and boomy.
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