HSU VTF-15H MK2 vs Monoprice 12" THX vs SVS PB-2000 PRO - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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HSU VTF-15H MK2 vs Monoprice 12" THX vs SVS PB-2000 PRO

Hey all, appreciate your input here.
I currently have an Aperion S10 10" sub. I got it in 2006. It has no issues at all. However, I would like a little more punch to the sound.

I am debating between these 3:
HSU VTF-15H MK2
Monoprice 12" THX
SVS PB-2000 PRO

They are all very similarly priced and their specs are pretty darn close.
Just from my research it seems like I get more extension with the HSU versus the other two.

My room dimensions are
16' L
9' W
9' H
The right hand side of the room has a 5' opening that is on the right hand side with a window on the left hand side that's a small portion of the wall.

Anyone have any thoughts on my situation? I know I can audition the SVS for free and the HSU for shipping cost ($140!) but I would rather not trouble the companies and just make sure I do my research and get what makes the most sense.

Thanks in advance for your guidance and knowledge
Rob
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post #2 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 09:39 AM
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post #3 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 09:40 AM
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post #4 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 09:47 AM
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HSU all day.

+1 for HSU. I have this sub and its a killer.

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post #5 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 09:53 AM
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Get the Hsu, don't look back. It won't win for looks, but it will absolutely deliver, especially from what you're upgrading from.

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post #6 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 10:00 AM
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Well the Monolith 12" is priced cheaper than both. 273 less than the HSU. It should play cleaner and more accurately than the HSU and hits the same decibels from around 31.5Hz down to 16Hz, but the HSU pulls away 40Hz and higher. I'd probably get the HSU out of those 3. SVS will give you the best customer service if you ever needed it.

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post #7 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RobVFX View Post
Hey all, appreciate your input here.
I currently have an Aperion S10 10" sub. I got it in 2006. It has no issues at all. However, I would like a little more punch to the sound.

I am debating between these 3:
HSU VTF-15H MK2
Monoprice 12" THX
SVS PB-2000 PRO

They are all very similarly priced and their specs are pretty darn close.
Just from my research it seems like I get more extension with the HSU versus the other two.

My room dimensions are
16' L
9' W
9' H
The right hand side of the room has a 5' opening that is on the right hand side with a window on the left hand side that's a small portion of the wall.

Anyone have any thoughts on my situation? I know I can audition the SVS for free and the HSU for shipping cost ($140!) but I would rather not trouble the companies and just make sure I do my research and get what makes the most sense.

Thanks in advance for your guidance and knowledge
Rob
HSU VTF-15H MK2 100% all day, every day.

Even if it's more expensive than some of your options, think of it as an investment - you will not need to worry about a sub until that things dies or you decide to add a second.

Also, not on your list: Rhythmik - check out their subs, too.
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post #8 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
HSU VTF-15H MK2 100% all day, every day.

Even if it's more expensive than some of your options, think of it as an investment - you will not need to worry about a sub until that things dies or you decide to add a second.
Only if OP stops visiting this website. Otherwise soon OP will have what we all have - upgradities bug.

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post #9 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by FIQBAL View Post
Only if OP stops visiting this website. Otherwise soon OP will have what we all have - upgradities bug.
It took me nearly 6 months to shake it off when I had the bug last year, though I'm not sure if it ever goes away For the sub, at least, I have no desire to swap my HSU out at all. I would add a second if I could to balance out the bass response, but I don't see me replacing the one I have for a "better" sub at anytime.

I still look at speakers I'd *like* to have, but they are not a possibility right now.

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post #10 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone!
Re : upgradities...
I have had my entire speaker system since 2006. I think that's reasonable

I am looking at updating my LCR speakers and of course considering the HSUs for those also, with a bit more interest now.
Their horn system looks interesting but the reviews and response of the CCB-8s look incredible. Not trying to derail my own thread with non subwoofer discussion though.

Rob

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post #11 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
It took me nearly 6 months to shake it off when I had the bug last year, though I'm not sure if it ever goes away For the sub, at least, I have no desire to swap my HSU out at all. I would add a second if I could to balance out the bass response, but I don't see me replacing the one I have for a "better" sub at anytime.

I still look at speakers I'd *like* to have, but they are not a possibility right now.
what size is your room?
I'm debating between the HSU VTF 15H and the Rythmik 15FX.
I'd like to save the 350$ if I can but I'm not convinced I'll be happy. I'm mostly home theater in a big 3.3k CF living room.
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post #12 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
what size is your room?
I'm debating between the HSU VTF 15H and the Rythmik 15FX.
I'd like to save the 350$ if I can but I'm not convinced I'll be happy. I'm mostly home theater in a big 3.3k CF living room.
The room it's currently in is 8 x 16 feet. I'm about to move my TV room into another space - it'll be roughly 12 x 16, but it's an open concept space apart from the bedrooms (the room currently being used is the second/spare bedroom), so there's roughly an additional 30 x 14 space tacked onto that. The advantage of having that large of a sub in a smaller space is you do not need to crank the volume at all (my HSU is barely at the 9 o'clock position and it packs a punch), which pretty much eliminates any possibility of unwanted distortion.

Which Rhythmik? I don't see a 15FX. Do you mean the FVX15?

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post #13 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 12:02 PM
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That HSU will give you performance between the PB3000/PB4000

so it's a no brainer

If you can swing $$ for Dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's thats an even better option value wise
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post #14 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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That HSU will give you performance between the PB3000/PB4000

so it's a no brainer

If you can swing $$ for Dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's thats an even better option value wise
Yeah that's what I read (performance wise) but it's great to hear from owners and just validating my research.
I was thinking to get the HSU and then their horn bookshelf speakers to replace my Aperion 532's for LCR. That would come to the same cost as the dual VTF-3's, and probably give me a better overall improvement of imaging.
Since HSU does a package deal there is a tiny bit of savings to be had there. I would keep Aperions for surrounds as that's much less of a concern, sound wise.

Thanks for your feedback and guidance.

Rob
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post #15 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RobVFX View Post
Yeah that's what I read (performance wise) but it's great to hear from owners and just validating my research.
I was thinking to get the HSU and then their horn bookshelf speakers to replace my Aperion 532's for LCR. That would come to the same cost as the dual VTF-3's, and probably give me a better overall improvement of imaging.
Since HSU does a package deal there is a tiny bit of savings to be had there. I would keep Aperions for surrounds as that's much less of a concern, sound wise.

Thanks for your feedback and guidance.

Rob
if you can do Duals now i would take that route then focus on the speakers next year etc.

Dual HSU's are gonna put a MASSIVE grin on your face

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post #16 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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if you can do Duals now i would take that route then focus on the speakers next year etc.

Dual HSU's are gonna put a MASSIVE grin on your face
Tough decisions
Good problem to have lol
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post #17 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
That HSU will give you performance between the PB3000/PB4000

so it's a no brainer

If you can swing $$ for Dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's thats an even better option value wise
Isn’t the HSU vtf 15 mk2 pretty much same performance as the pb3000? The pb4000 should definitely be a big step above as it replaced the pb13 ultra.

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post #18 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 02:01 PM
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Isn’t the HSU vtf 15 mk2 pretty much same performance as the pb3000? The pb4000 should definitely be a big step above as it replaced the pb13 ultra.
The PB3000 actually has more output in the mid bass than the PB4000, but the PB4000 has a lot more output under 20hz. The VTF has a little more output than the PB3000 in the midbass and quite a bit more under 20hz but not quite as much as the PB4000. At the price of the VTF which is more than $300 less than the PB3000 even with shipping included for the VTF it's a performance bargain.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
That HSU will give you performance between the PB3000/PB4000

so it's a no brainer

If you can swing $$ for Dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's thats an even better option value wise
Isn’t the HSU vtf 15 mk2 pretty much same performance as the pb3000? The pb4000 should definitely be a big step above as it replaced the pb13 ultra.
Above 25hz the pb3000 and HSU are pretty even. But 15-25hz the HSU would is somewheres in between the pb3000 and pb4000 (closer to the pb4000)

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post #20 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 04:01 PM
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Tough decisions
Good problem to have lol

For what it's worth, I had a VTF 3 Mk 5 for about 3 months, sold it, switched to dual SVS PB16s, and now have found myself adding back a VTF 3 Mk 5.

Why you ask? Hsu just sounds exceptional for that 30-60hz mid bass range. It's tuned for max SPL in that area, and that's the chest slam bass I enjoyed, and found lacking in the PB16s
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post #21 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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For what it's worth, I had a VTF 3 Mk 5 for about 3 months, sold it, switched to dual SVS PB16s, and now have found myself adding back a VTF 3 Mk 5.

Why you ask? Hsu just sounds exceptional for that 30-60hz mid bass range. It's tuned for max SPL in that area, and that's the chest slam bass I enjoyed, and found lacking in the PB16s
Ah that's also great to know. I will be going with the VTF15 (single) for now and see how that fares.
Once I get it and give it a whirl I will provide some feedback.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonametofame View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobVFX View Post
Tough decisions [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Good problem to have lol

For what it's worth, I had a VTF 3 Mk 5 for about 3 months, sold it, switched to dual SVS PB16s, and now have found myself adding back a VTF 3 Mk 5.

Why you ask? Hsu just sounds exceptional for that 30-60hz mid bass range. It's tuned for max SPL in that area, and that's the chest slam bass I enjoyed, and found lacking in the PB16s
When the chest slam was lacking were you listening to SPLs greater than 116-120db? I ask because the dual PB16s should be able to deliver that much output in that range in a typical setup.
Edit: one more thought: did you measure the frequency response to make sure you were not getting a large null in that range?

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post #23 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 05:52 PM
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When the chest slam was lacking were you listening to SPLs greater than 116-120db? I ask because the dual PB16s should be able to deliver that much output in that range in a typical setup.
Edit: one more thought: did you measure the frequency response to make sure you were not getting a large null in that range?

I have a smaller apt set up, something like 13x17, and the size of the PB16s forces me to place them up front, on the inside of my front speakers. That's where I had the Hsu before too, but I have it near field now, next to the couch. I have been using the combination of REW and Dirac to dial in the subs in the current and past configurations, and have been able to achieve decent results with a flat response curve. The apps in the SVS apps have been extremely helpful in getting the PB16s to play well together, but it did take a long time.


I think the Hsu just works better for my particular room, especially in that midrange area I mentioned. The SVS delivers just as much or even more SPL in that area, but the quality of that sound just isn't as impactful. I attribute this to the specific port tuning of each sub. SVS absolutely crushes, especially in larger rooms. It also comes down to preferences. Some people prefer massive room pressurization, others tight, musical, accurate chest slam. I'm trying to achieve both, but the key is proper placement, timing, correction, and treatment, which I'm still trying to figure out and experiment with. Adding more subs just complicates the issue.


So I know that probably even one PB16 can do everything I want, maybe even just one Hsu. But I just can't get it to do that and obtain a smooth, flat response at every listening position. And I like that having multiple subs allows each one to work much less to achieve satisfying SPL, across multiple positions.

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post #24 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 09:16 PM
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Well the Monolith 12" is priced cheaper than both. 273 less than the HSU. It should play cleaner and more accurately than the HSU and hits the same decibels from around 31.5Hz down to 16Hz, but the HSU pulls away 40Hz and higher. I'd probably get the HSU out of those 3. SVS will give you the best customer service if you ever needed it.
I believe you're comparing it to the Monolith 15. The VTF-15H MK2 offers more output from 16-100hz over the Monolith 12.
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post #25 of 44 Old 01-15-2020, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
When the chest slam was lacking were you listening to SPLs greater than 116-120db? I ask because the dual PB16s should be able to deliver that much output in that range in a typical setup.
Edit: one more thought: did you measure the frequency response to make sure you were not getting a large null in that range?
The PB16 is not very efficient in the mid-bass. If you look at the compression sweeps, it compresses on both sides of the 40-50hz range above 110db. So it get to a certain SPL level and output only increases in a very narrow frequency range. the sub that maintains a more linear response up top is going to sound cleaner and more dynamic at higher play back levels... That is likely why he feels the HSU sounds better in the mid bass.
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post #26 of 44 Old 01-16-2020, 11:50 AM
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I have a smaller apt set up, something like 13x17, and the size of the PB16s forces me to place them up front, on the inside of my front speakers. That's where I had the Hsu before too, but I have it near field now, next to the couch. I have been using the combination of REW and Dirac to dial in the subs in the current and past configurations, and have been able to achieve decent results with a flat response curve. The apps in the SVS apps have been extremely helpful in getting the PB16s to play well together, but it did take a long time.


I think the Hsu just works better for my particular room, especially in that midrange area I mentioned. The SVS delivers just as much or even more SPL in that area, but the quality of that sound just isn't as impactful. I attribute this to the specific port tuning of each sub. SVS absolutely crushes, especially in larger rooms. It also comes down to preferences. Some people prefer massive room pressurization, others tight, musical, accurate chest slam. I'm trying to achieve both, but the key is proper placement, timing, correction, and treatment, which I'm still trying to figure out and experiment with. Adding more subs just complicates the issue.


So I know that probably even one PB16 can do everything I want, maybe even just one Hsu. But I just can't get it to do that and obtain a smooth, flat response at every listening position. And I like that having multiple subs allows each one to work much less to achieve satisfying SPL, across multiple positions.
It could mainly be a placement issue. From running REW tests I can attest that even a few inches can make a huge difference in the response. It could be that at the ideal placement of the HSU your driver is 7 inches away from where the PB16 lands in your room due to room restrictions. It could be enough to cause a null based on the geometry of the room. You could also be running into cancellation issues from the duals being placed how you have them.

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post #27 of 44 Old 01-16-2020, 12:22 PM
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It could mainly be a placement issue. From running REW tests I can attest that even a few inches can make a huge difference in the response. It could be that at the ideal placement of the HSU your driver is 7 inches away from where the PB16 lands in your room due to room restrictions. It could be enough to cause a null based on the geometry of the room. You could also be running into cancellation issues from the duals being placed how you have them.

I check all my results with REW, but of course, placement is extremely critical. I've been able to achieve a relatively flat response with dual Hsus in place before, and now again with the PB16s, only it was much easier to do all adjustments from the SVS app. But I agree with everything you're saying.

Interestingly enough, my friend also just got a single PB16 to replace an SVS PB2000, and have reported similar results. My conclusion is that some subs' tuning frequencies are just better suited for certain rooms, and also better matched to the user's tastes/preferences.


But as Basshead81 pointed out, it might also be that the PB16 is not very efficient in the mid-bass.

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post #28 of 44 Old 01-20-2020, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I got my VTF-15H MK2 today. VERY quick setup, not that calibrated....it sounds incredible.
The thing is GIANT and awesome.

In my small room there is no need for two of these things. I think the plaster would come off the walls!
Thank you to all of you who replied with your solid advice.

Rob
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post #29 of 44 Old 01-20-2020, 04:39 PM
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Well, I got my VTF-15H MK2 today. VERY quick setup, not that calibrated....it sounds incredible.
The thing is GIANT and awesome.

In my small room there is no need for two of these things. I think the plaster would come off the walls!
Thank you to all of you who replied with your solid advice.

Rob
When I got my ULS-15, my first reaction was "woah!", coming from an Elac S10EQ. Yeah that thing has some girth to it - it would not fit in my space, so I went with the smaller form factor of their sealed sub.

What size is your room?

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post #30 of 44 Old 01-20-2020, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
When the chest slam was lacking were you listening to SPLs greater than 116-120db? I ask because the dual PB16s should be able to deliver that much output in that range in a typical setup.
Edit: one more thought: did you measure the frequency response to make sure you were not getting a large null in that range?
The PB16 is not very efficient in the mid-bass. If you look at the compression sweeps, it compresses on both sides of the 40-50hz range above 110db. So it get to a certain SPL level and output only increases in a very narrow frequency range. the sub that maintains a more linear response up top is going to sound cleaner and more dynamic at higher play back levels... That is likely why he feels the HSU sounds better in the mid bass.
As per this article the CEA 2m numbers for the PB 16 are
31.5Hz : 118 db
40 Hz : 119 db
50 Hz : 118 db
63 Hz : 117 db
80. Hz : 115 db
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...r/measurements

For mid bass or for general music you should get linear output till 115db. Add 2 PB 16’s and you are talking about at least 120db properly calibrated without boundary or pressure vessel gains.

That is a lot of mid bass slam!
Edit: would you be able to link the compression sweeps of the pb16? I searched around but couldn’t find.
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Last edited by tojo_m; 01-20-2020 at 05:12 PM.
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