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post #1 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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SVS sub too boomy

Hi All,

I have had an SVS SB1000 sub for a few months. I ran Audyssey and listened for a while. It was way too boomy sounding, especially on any music (such as commercials). I have B&W CM2 bookshelves and matching center run through a Marantz NR1607 AV receiver. Audyssey has these correctly set to small. I changed crossover to 80 and then 120 and have reduced sub output down to -4dB. None of this has provided satisfactory results and I am really wishing my 20 year old Velodyne did not fail on me. Sub is placed in a corner about 8" from either wall.

What else can I try to make this sub transparent until it is really needed for special effects?

Thanks, Russ
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post #2 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 05:44 AM
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I have never used Audyssey, but I have heard of a couple of people who ran it and still had some issues. When it comes to subwoofer placement, there is something called nulls in a room, which is where the bass drops out. The opposite of that is something called peaks, which is where the level is increased. Others here are a lot more knowledgeable than I am, but it could be that your old sub worked in that same spot but this one doesn't. It may be that there is another spot in the room that would allow the sub to blend more smoothly with your speakers. To accomplish that you can simply put the sub in other areas and see how it sounds to your ears. Another more exact approach is doing something called a sub-crawl which is what you think it is. It is placing the sub in other areas and crawling around with a mic measuring the output of the sub in order to figure out the peaks and nulls for the best sub performance.

With all due respect to you and your knowledge... I reserve the right to be wrong about what I say and think.
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post #3 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacbut View Post
Hi All,

I have had an SVS SB1000 sub for a few months. I ran Audyssey and listened for a while. It was way too boomy sounding, especially on any music (such as commercials). I have B&W CM2 bookshelves and matching center run through a Marantz NR1607 AV receiver. Audyssey has these correctly set to small. I changed crossover to 80 and then 120 and have reduced sub output down to -4dB. None of this has provided satisfactory results and I am really wishing my 20 year old Velodyne did not fail on me. Sub is placed in a corner about 8" from either wall.

What else can I try to make this sub transparent until it is really needed for special effects?

Thanks, Russ
Yeah, it sounds to me like your sub is being corner loaded with quite a bit of room gain - good for some, but not for others. Move it to another spot and see how it sounds.
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post #4 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacbut View Post
Hi All,



I have had an SVS SB1000 sub for a few months. I ran Audyssey and listened for a while. It was way too boomy sounding, especially on any music (such as commercials). I have B&W CM2 bookshelves and matching center run through a Marantz NR1607 AV receiver. Audyssey has these correctly set to small. I changed crossover to 80 and then 120 and have reduced sub output down to -4dB. None of this has provided satisfactory results and I am really wishing my 20 year old Velodyne did not fail on me. Sub is placed in a corner about 8" from either wall.



What else can I try to make this sub transparent until it is really needed for special effects?



Thanks, Russ


1. Try moving the sub six inches to foot out of the corner.
2. Do Audyssey again with a tighter or larger mic pattern, opposite of what you did before.
3. Do not judge your sub performance by commercials, they are the worst.


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post #5 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 08:24 AM
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likely a room response issue. Move the sub around the room until you find a better spot. Outlaw offers a nice wireless kit that makes placing subs around the room much easier.
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post #6 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacbut View Post
Hi All,

I have had an SVS SB1000 sub for a few months. I ran Audyssey and listened for a while. It was way too boomy sounding, especially on any music (such as commercials). I have B&W CM2 bookshelves and matching center run through a Marantz NR1607 AV receiver. Audyssey has these correctly set to small. I changed crossover to 80 and then 120 and have reduced sub output down to -4dB. None of this has provided satisfactory results and I am really wishing my 20 year old Velodyne did not fail on me. Sub is placed in a corner about 8" from either wall.

What else can I try to make this sub transparent until it is really needed for special effects?

Thanks, Russ
Make sure you have Dynamic EQ "off."

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post #7 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 11:47 AM
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Make sure you have Dynamic EQ "off."
This is the big one right here, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume is way over the top especially if your running the sub "hot".
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post #8 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 01:36 PM
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Great advice above -
  • Pull the sub a bit farther away from the corner.
  • Set the gain to 1 o'clock.
  • Run Audyssey with the mic at head level where you sit - don't move it too far left or right for the next two measurements.
  • Save the results.
  • Confirm the speakers are set to Small
  • Set the crossover to 80 Hz (unless Audyssey set it higher, which is unlikely)
  • Set the subwoofer mode to LFE and the LPF/LFE to 120 Hz
  • Go under Audio/Audyssey and disable Dynamic EQ and disable Dynamic Volume

Normally I'm a fan of DEQ - but if you are sensitive to its bass emphasis - particularly at lower playback levels - you'll likely prefer it disabled.

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post #9 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

Normally I'm a fan of DEQ - but if you are sensitive to its bass emphasis - particularly at lower playback levels - you'll likely prefer it disabled.
Yep. DEQ is awesome.
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post #10 of 50 Old 01-24-2020, 07:53 PM
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Moving the sub off direct contact with the floor may help too, especially if what's under the floor is causing trouble. Years ago I discovered that the sub in my theater was sounding awfully boomy. Turned out that the garage under by theater room was the cause. The large space with metal cars and concrete floor caused all kinds of problems, much like a drum stuffed with hard objects. The solution was a Aurelex Mo-Pad which is a foam platform to decouple the sub from the floor and the difference was night and day. SVS also sells add-on feet that effectively do the same thing. I have them on a different SVS sub in the house and this solution works well too.
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post #11 of 50 Old 01-25-2020, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Spewdom View Post
Yep. DEQ is awesome.
That's the thing, some people love it, but, for me, with modern content it makes my usually great sounding 1250 watt DD15 sealed servo sub sound like crap...muddies and adds boominess to my Usher V603 center channel as well.

On old content like black and white movies or documentaries which lack modern soundtracks it can help with a 10-15db offset.
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post #12 of 50 Old 01-26-2020, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
likely a room response issue. Move the sub around the room until you find a better spot. Outlaw offers a nice wireless kit that makes placing subs around the room much easier.
The Outlaw OAW3 Wireless Audio System is no longer available. https://outlawaudio.com/products/OAW3.html
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The Outlaw OAW3 Wireless Audio System is no longer available. https://outlawaudio.com/products/OAW3.html
Been replaced with this one. https://outlawaudio.com/products/OAW4.html
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post #14 of 50 Old 01-27-2020, 11:24 AM
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I always forget about checking DEQ and Dynamic Volume.

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post #15 of 50 Old 01-29-2020, 09:31 PM
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Agree with comments above.
You bring ports into consideration, sealed subs are a little more forgiving to place.
If you have or know someone that has something like Omnimic or XTZ Room Analyzer Pro or Room Eq Wizard (REW is a free download or a donation) you just need a mic, calibrated USB is fine for cheap think they are about $80 depends where you live. It will probably be your best investment towards your system.
Use the RTA (real time analyzer) in the software and place the sub (like the sub crawl mentioned above) and move the mic around the room while watching the RTA for smoothness. Easier to move the mic around than move the sub around. Better again get someone else to help you so you can concentrate on the RTA graph.

All the above products are all very good in their own right. XTZ has a delay alignment tool (extra easy to use) which fixed my systems subs. The Yamaha YPAO receiver and SVS Aseq1suggested 7.15 metres the XTZ suggested 6.35 metres. I measured for quite sometime and XTZ was right.
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post #16 of 50 Old 01-31-2020, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post
Moving the sub off direct contact with the floor may help too, especially if what's under the floor is causing trouble. Years ago I discovered that the sub in my theater was sounding awfully boomy. Turned out that the garage under by theater room was the cause. The large space with metal cars and concrete floor caused all kinds of problems, much like a drum stuffed with hard objects. The solution was a Aurelex Mo-Pad which is a foam platform to decouple the sub from the floor and the difference was night and day. SVS also sells add-on feet that effectively do the same thing. I have them on a different SVS sub in the house and this solution works well too.
I did the same thing you did. Added isolation pads/feet to my svs sub and it definitely made a big difference. Those isolation platforms/pads are so worth the price.
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post #17 of 50 Old 01-31-2020, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacbut View Post
Hi All,



I have had an SVS SB1000 sub for a few months. I ran Audyssey and listened for a while. It was way too boomy sounding, especially on any music (such as commercials). I have B&W CM2 bookshelves and matching center run through a Marantz NR1607 AV receiver. Audyssey has these correctly set to small. I changed crossover to 80 and then 120 and have reduced sub output down to -4dB. None of this has provided satisfactory results and I am really wishing my 20 year old Velodyne did not fail on me. Sub is placed in a corner about 8" from either wall.



What else can I try to make this sub transparent until it is really needed for special effects?



Thanks, Russ

Anything work?


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post #18 of 50 Old 01-31-2020, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post
Moving the sub off direct contact with the floor may help too, especially if what's under the floor is causing trouble. Years ago I discovered that the sub in my theater was sounding awfully boomy. Turned out that the garage under by theater room was the cause. The large space with metal cars and concrete floor caused all kinds of problems, much like a drum stuffed with hard objects. The solution was a Aurelex Mo-Pad which is a foam platform to decouple the sub from the floor and the difference was night and day. SVS also sells add-on feet that effectively do the same thing. I have them on a different SVS sub in the house and this solution works well too.

Not to get the post off the rails, but the idea of these subwoofer “pads” suggesting “decoupling” vibrational energy from the sub to the floor is pure nonsense.

If a subwoofer has no feet whatsoever ever, rubber feet, like hardware store variety, are all that is needed to creat a level seal of the cabinet to the floor. Nearly all name brand subs do. Absent any feet, this pad would do that, at a premium, but there’s no secret sauce.

Any sonic change is due to the physical upward movement of the sub, which even a few inches, can cause an audible change. Anything around your subwoofer that is rattling is doing so from acoustical energy, not vibrational energy. The pad under the sub couldn’t possibly absorb a fraction of low sub 80hz sound waves. You’d need a mattress thick pad to do that. However, moving the sub in the right direction, including upwards, can shift that acoustical energy, and bass modes, and cause things to no longer rattle.

My suggestion is to use the styrofoam frame that the sub came in. And see how the sub performs with that around it. If you like that, sure, get the pad, it does look nicer. But again, sonic benefits are coming from the sheer movement of the sub. Not some gee wiz effect of the pad.


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post #19 of 50 Old 02-01-2020, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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update

So just a quick update. First I travel a fair amount so I have not tried all suggestions yet. But I did turn off Dynamic EQ and that significantly improved my situation. Next will be to move the sub and re-run Audyssey. Thanks for all the assistance.
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post #20 of 50 Old 02-01-2020, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Not to get the post off the rails, but the idea of these subwoofer “pads” suggesting “decoupling” vibrational energy from the sub to the floor is pure nonsense.

If a subwoofer has no feet whatsoever ever, rubber feet, like hardware store variety, are all that is needed to creat a level seal of the cabinet to the floor. Nearly all name brand subs do. Absent any feet, this pad would do that, at a premium, but there’s no secret sauce.

Any sonic change is due to the physical upward movement of the sub, which even a few inches, can cause an audible change. Anything around your subwoofer that is rattling is doing so from acoustical energy, not vibrational energy. The pad under the sub couldn’t possibly absorb a fraction of low sub 80hz sound waves. You’d need a mattress thick pad to do that. However, moving the sub in the right direction, including upwards, can shift that acoustical energy, and bass modes, and cause things to no longer rattle.

My suggestion is to use the styrofoam frame that the sub came in. And see how the sub performs with that around it. If you like that, sure, get the pad, it does look nicer. But again, sonic benefits are coming from the sheer movement of the sub. Not some gee wiz effect of the pad.


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When I had a down firing sub on an off grade wood floor a 2 inch thick piece of granite made a noticeable difference in boom and other resonation (?).
It didn't absorb the sound, just kept the floor from rattling and tightened up the bass if that describes it . I don't use it now because I moved to front firing x's 2.

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post #21 of 50 Old 02-01-2020, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altpensacola View Post
When I had a down firing sub on an off grade wood floor a 2 inch thick piece of granite made a noticeable difference in boom and other resonation (?).
It didn't absorb the sound, just kept the floor from rattling and tightened up the bass if that describes it . I don't use it now because I moved to front firing x's 2.


The only thing you truly need is a way to seal the bottom of the subwoofer to the floor in such away that you have a firm connection so it doesn’t rock or tip due to uneven contact with the floor. Same with your speaker tower. Rubber feet, or carpet spikes do this fine.

Assuming this was done, if adding anything else under a subwoofer made an actual change (accounting for placebo, or expectation bias, so properly controlled) then it was due to the subwoofer changing locations, in this case upwards. This can and will change response at the same listening location.

Front and down firing are the essentially same thing. You have bass imitating from a specific point inside the driver and spreading across the room. When you changed to a front firing subwoofer, that location of the focal point of the bass, which comes from inside the cabinet, inside the driver itself, was changed, relative to your room, causing different room mode reactions, and possibly what vibrates before didn’t vibrate now. In short switching from one configuration to the other is like moving the sub.

There’s some tertiary concerns with down firing vs front firing but to suggest a down firing subwoofer necessitates or benefits in any way to something, even a small granite slab, under the down firing sub to “catch and soften the bass” or something is just that’s just not how it works.


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post #22 of 50 Old 02-01-2020, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
The only thing you truly need is a way to seal the bottom of the subwoofer to the floor in such away that you have a firm connection so it doesn’t rock or tip due to uneven contact with the floor. Same with your speaker tower. Rubber feet, or carpet spikes do this fine.

Assuming this was done, if adding anything else under a subwoofer made an actual change (accounting for placebo, or expectation bias, so properly controlled) then it was due to the subwoofer changing locations, in this case upwards. This can and will change response at the same listening location.

Front and down firing are the essentially same thing. You have bass imitating from a specific point inside the driver and spreading across the room. When you changed to a front firing subwoofer, that location of the focal point of the bass, which comes from inside the cabinet, inside the driver itself, was changed, relative to your room, causing different room mode reactions, and possibly what vibrates before didn’t vibrate now. In short switching from one configuration to the other is like moving the sub.

There’s some tertiary concerns with down firing vs front firing but to suggest a down firing subwoofer necessitates or benefits in any way to something, even a small granite slab, under the down firing sub to “catch and soften the bass” or something is just that’s just not how it works.


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It didn't catch or soften the sound, it kept the wood floor from vibrating like a drum. Resonation. You could even tell the difference from under the house (3 foot off grade , 2 x12 framing, room 14x 25 I think.)

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post #23 of 50 Old 02-02-2020, 07:00 AM
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SVS sub too boomy

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Originally Posted by altpensacola View Post
It didn't catch or soften the sound, it kept the wood floor from vibrating like a drum. Resonation. You could even tell the difference from under the house (3 foot off grade , 2 x12 framing, room 14x 25 I think.)

I’m not so much questioning the effect it had, but why; because you moved the focal point of the sound relative to the room a number of inches. If the acoustical energy is generating an enhanced room mode it will do that.


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post #24 of 50 Old 02-03-2020, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Great advice above -


Pull the sub a bit farther away from the corner.
Set the gain to 1 o'clock.
Run Audyssey with the mic at head level where you sit - don't move it too far left or right for the next two measurements.
Save the results.
Confirm the speakers are set to Small
Set the crossover to 80 Hz (unless Audyssey set it higher, which is unlikely)
Set the subwoofer mode to LFE and the LPF/LFE to 120 Hz
Go under Audio/Audyssey and disable Dynamic EQ and disable Dynamic Volume

This needs to be done every time Audyssey is run. It always sets my Motion 40's to large and my wide channel Motion LX16's to 40Hz. And using a boom mic stand to get the Audyssey mic right at ear level with it sitting on the floor has been the best $25.00 I've spent !
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post #25 of 50 Old 02-03-2020, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Not to get the post off the rails, but the idea of these subwoofer “pads” suggesting “decoupling” vibrational energy from the sub to the floor is pure nonsense.

If a subwoofer has no feet whatsoever ever, rubber feet, like hardware store variety, are all that is needed to creat a level seal of the cabinet to the floor. Nearly all name brand subs do. Absent any feet, this pad would do that, at a premium, but there’s no secret sauce.

Any sonic change is due to the physical upward movement of the sub, which even a few inches, can cause an audible change. Anything around your subwoofer that is rattling is doing so from acoustical energy, not vibrational energy. The pad under the sub couldn’t possibly absorb a fraction of low sub 80hz sound waves. You’d need a mattress thick pad to do that. However, moving the sub in the right direction, including upwards, can shift that acoustical energy, and bass modes, and cause things to no longer rattle.

My suggestion is to use the styrofoam frame that the sub came in. And see how the sub performs with that around it. If you like that, sure, get the pad, it does look nicer. But again, sonic benefits are coming from the sheer movement of the sub. Not some gee wiz effect of the pad.


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I'll be the first to agree with you on your main points. I'm a big critic of home theater/audiophile "hocus pocus". I've gotten into a lot of arguments online with people on the merits of various schemes to get better audio, especially in the age of digital audio/DACs (hey this "audiophile USB cable really works!").

But in this case, I was able to run my own test. Years ago when I was building my theater in the house we moved into, the den/theater was built over a garage. And I noticed that bass sounded really awful and I couldn't figure out why. After some time I realized that the problem might be a structural issue with the house so I played a test track that was bass heavy and sure enough, if I stood directly underneath in the garage, it was pretty pronounced and bouncing sound all over the concrete floor and/or metal cars parked there. Putting the sub on top of a table (for the purpose of the test) changed the situation dramatically. In the end, I used an Aurelex MoPad and that worked too (though not quite as well as the table).

Years later the sub broke (amp died) and I eventually replaced the amp but moved the sub (and it's MoPad) into a different 5.1 room. In this room, MoPad isn't as useful since there is a dirt surface 3 feet under the subfloor but since the sub is sitting off of the main carpeted area on a wood floor, it's better than the sub's bottom having direct contact with a hard surface. I also have a SVS SB13 Ultra in a 2 channel listening area (also on a hardwood floor) and I used the new subwoofer feet that SVS sells to get that sub off the floor with just the feet as contact points.

Bottom line? Your mileage will vary on this topic....A LOT. But it did work for me due to the specific nature of my house.
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post #26 of 50 Old 02-03-2020, 02:25 PM
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I'll be the first to agree with you on your main points. I'm a big critic of home theater/audiophile "hocus pocus". I've gotten into a lot of arguments online with people on the merits of various schemes to get better audio, especially in the age of digital audio/DACs (hey this "audiophile USB cable really works!").



But in this case, I was able to run my own test. Years ago when I was building my theater in the house we moved into, the den/theater was built over a garage. And I noticed that bass sounded really awful and I couldn't figure out why. After some time I realized that the problem might be a structural issue with the house so I played a test track that was bass heavy and sure enough, if I stood directly underneath in the garage, it was pretty pronounced and bouncing sound all over the concrete floor and/or metal cars parked there. Putting the sub on top of a table (for the purpose of the test) changed the situation dramatically. In the end, I used an Aurelex MoPad and that worked too (though not quite as well as the table).



Years later the sub broke (amp died) and I eventually replaced the amp but moved the sub (and it's MoPad) into a different 5.1 room. In this room, MoPad isn't as useful since there is a dirt surface 3 feet under the subfloor but since the sub is sitting off of the main carpeted area on a wood floor, it's better than the sub's bottom having direct contact with a hard surface. I also have a SVS SB13 Ultra in a 2 channel listening area (also on a hardwood floor) and I used the new subwoofer feet that SVS sells to get that sub off the floor with just the feet as contact points.



Bottom line? Your mileage will vary on this topic....A LOT. But it did work for me due to the specific nature of my house.


My main point is that they can “work” but only as far as moving a sub a few inches in any direction will work. Moreover if you sub doesn’t have feet, rubber or thick felt etc, then this will provide a decent level seal to the floor. Most ID subs have proper mounting feet already. A very cheap hardware store trip will help if they don’t.


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post #27 of 50 Old 02-04-2020, 05:02 PM
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I’m just going to say that a shiny hardwood surface makes a very noticeable reflection. Boom. Just raising the sub or placing it on something that cuts down the reflection right near the box makes a huge difference in the sound. Just placing a small carpet under the sub on a hard shiny floor will drastically affect the sound. Carpeted rooms sound very different than shiny hardwood floored rooms and concrete rooms sound different than these. Anything shiny reflects like glass.
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post #28 of 50 Old 02-04-2020, 06:35 PM
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I’m just going to say that a shiny hardwood surface makes a very noticeable reflection. Boom. Just raising the sub or placing it on something that cuts down the reflection right near the box makes a huge difference in the sound. Just placing a small carpet under the sub on a hard shiny floor will drastically affect the sound. Carpeted rooms sound very different than shiny hardwood floored rooms and concrete rooms sound different than these. Anything shiny reflects like glass.

Do the SVS isolation feet work well on hard wood floors?


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post #29 of 50 Old 02-04-2020, 06:36 PM
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Do the SVS isolation feet work well on hard wood floors?


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Work at doing what? What kind of sub?


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post #30 of 50 Old 02-04-2020, 06:37 PM
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I’m just going to say that a shiny hardwood surface makes a very noticeable reflection. Boom. Just raising the sub or placing it on something that cuts down the reflection right near the box makes a huge difference in the sound. Just placing a small carpet under the sub on a hard shiny floor will drastically affect the sound. Carpeted rooms sound very different than shiny hardwood floored rooms and concrete rooms sound different than these. Anything shiny reflects like glass.


That’s not really how bass behaves.


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