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post #1 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Tiny but extended subwoofer?

Does anyone know of a very small sealed subwoofer that emphasizes extension over SPL? I am looking for something that fills in the lower octaves for some small speakers in a tiny room. Almost a closet-sized small room. It’s a tiny little study area, so I don’t need any SPL, but I want that bottom octave in the smallest package possible.
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post #2 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
Does anyone know of a very small sealed subwoofer that emphasizes extension over SPL? I am looking for something that fills in the lower octaves for some small speakers in a tiny room. Almost a closet-sized small room. It’s a tiny little study area, so I don’t need any SPL, but I want that bottom octave in the smallest package possible.
You're in almost the exact same situation I'm in. 9x6 foot office space, looking to build a nice desktop system. The only place I can put a sub is under the desk so size is important. Here are some subs I've considered...

https://rel.net/shop/powered-subwoofers/serie-t/zero/

https://rel.net/shop/powered-subwoofers/serie-ti/t5i/

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_946SB1...iAAEgJQy_D_BwE

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_749ASW...ck.html?tp=187

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_991KUB...8b.html?tp=187

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_839DY6...0X.html?tp=187


I REALLY wish Rythmik made a smaller sub...that would be my first choice. Not sure I can do the L12 but I'm sold on their servo technology.

I'll be following this thread carefully. Good luck.
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post #3 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 06:33 AM
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a sealed sub in a small sealed room should extend well below 20hz.

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post #4 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
Does anyone know of a very small sealed subwoofer that emphasizes extension over SPL? I am looking for something that fills in the lower octaves for some small speakers in a tiny room. Almost a closet-sized small room. It’s a tiny little study area, so I don’t need any SPL, but I want that bottom octave in the smallest package possible.
That sounds like a good set of headphones! What are you trying to do, listen to pipe organ? There isn't much music that goes down below 30hz.
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post #5 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by doctors11 View Post
You're in almost the exact same situation I'm in. 9x6 foot office space, looking to build a nice desktop system. The only place I can put a sub is under the desk so size is important. Here are some subs I've considered...

https://rel.net/shop/powered-subwoofers/serie-t/zero/

https://rel.net/shop/powered-subwoofers/serie-ti/t5i/

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_946SB1...iAAEgJQy_D_BwE

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_749ASW...ck.html?tp=187

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_991KUB...8b.html?tp=187

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_839DY6...0X.html?tp=187


I REALLY wish Rythmik made a smaller sub...that would be my first choice. Not sure I can do the L12 but I'm sold on their servo technology.

I'll be following this thread carefully. Good luck.
Glad we’re on the same page. Yes it’s too bad Rythmik doesn’t make a mini sub for lifestyle and/or desktop systems. I also wish they would sell their servo drivers for car audio. They just seem to only be interested in old school stereo audiophile or else monster ht subs.

Here’s another to add to list: http://www.tbisound.com/
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That sounds like a good set of headphones! What are you trying to do, listen to pipe organ? There isn't much music that goes down below 30hz.
That’s what they say. But in my experience that bottom octave is more valuable than any other by far. I just want natural sound.
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post #7 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
a sealed sub in a small sealed room should extend well below 20hz.
If only you could buy one that’s less than 10” cubed.
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post #8 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
If only you could buy one that’s less than 10” cubed.


That sub wouldn’t have output that low. In subs, size matters.


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Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
Glad we’re on the same page. Yes it’s too bad Rythmik doesn’t make a mini sub for lifestyle and/or desktop systems. I also wish they would sell their servo drivers for car audio. They just seem to only be interested in old school stereo audiophile or else monster ht subs.

Here’s another to add to list: http://www.tbisound.com/
Interesting, never heard of them. They're passive...got room for a separate amp?
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If only you could buy one that’s less than 10” cubed.
That little REL gets mentioned a lot by people using it in your situation.
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post #11 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 07:06 AM
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What you're looking at isn't exactly small. My SVS NSD 12" is the same size as the one link I looked at. To get below 20, the SB-2000 would do it, they have a cylinder too that is tall, but not a huge box like a ported sub.
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post #12 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
If only you could buy one that’s less than 10” cubed.
Those just don't exsist, unfortunately. The closest that you're going to get is probably the REL HT/1003 or the RSL Speedwoofer 10.
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post #13 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
Does anyone know of a very small sealed subwoofer that emphasizes extension over SPL? I am looking for something that fills in the lower octaves for some small speakers in a tiny room. Almost a closet-sized small room. It’s a tiny little study area, so I don’t need any SPL, but I want that bottom octave in the smallest package possible.

“Does anyone know of a very small sealed subwoofer that emphasizes extension over SPL?”

Why does it have to be sealed? Before you say it, yes a ported sub can be just as clean and musical or any other buzzword as a sealed. Ported subs have a bad rep from the HTiB market. I use both, but if I had a small room for near field it would be a ported choice.

“I am looking for something that fills in the lower octaves for some small speakers in a tiny room.”

Are you listening to pipe organ chamber music? If not, 35-40 Hz is plenty of extension. Also what speaker do you have?

“Almost a closet-sized small room.”

Give the dims anyways. Also, max footprint of the sub allowed.

“It’s a tiny little study area, so I don’t need any SPL, but I want that bottom octave in the smallest package possible.”

You meant headroom, not spl, but the more headroom you have the cleaner the sound at any volume.



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Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
Does anyone know of a very small sealed subwoofer that emphasizes extension over SPL? I am looking for something that fills in the lower octaves for some small speakers in a tiny room. Almost a closet-sized small room. It’s a tiny little study area, so I don’t need any SPL, but I want that bottom octave in the smallest package possible.
Not a sealed sub, not a cheap sub, manufacture specs may be pure BS, but when I auditioned it a local retailer impressed me none the less. That is the Goldenear SuperSubXXL. Here is a review of the lower line. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...um-review.html

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Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
If only you could buy one that’s less than 10” cubed.
To simplify, a direct radiating subwoofer--sealed/ported is an air pump and uses bore X stroke to move air. The amount of air it moves at a specific frequency can be calculated to SPL easily--calculators on the internet will tell you. It don't matter if it is a servo, carbon fiber cones or unicorn horn dust caps--bore X stroke is king.

The other issue is as you go lower in frequency, the higher in SPL is required to hear the bass tones. The Fletcher-Munson curve and that has been known and quantified since the 1930's--it is not "new". Although any driver will go down to 20 Hz, even a 3 inch driver in a clock radio it does not mean you will hear it or it will be useful. I am assuming you want useful output down to 20 or 16Hz which would be at least 90dB or higher just to hear it--because human hearing is very poor down low.

You are in luck, there are parts of audio that want sub bass in very small areas, used in very small spaces with not a lot of options for placement. Commonly called car audio, those guys have been doing just that for decades.

Assuming you want a 10" cube--subtracting for the thickness of the box and driver displacement that comes out to around 0.4 cubic feet of air space. Basically, a 6.5" sub for that size but there are a few drivers that will do that. The "go to" tiny sub driver for many years is the TangBand 6.5 Neo driver. A 4 ohm driver with 12mm of Xmax or around a full inch of peak-to-peak displacement. You can slap together a 10" cube with 1/2" birch plywood easily enough if you have opposing thumbs (some people don't) Throw some pillow stuffings inside and connect to an amplifier with parametric EQ and adjustable limiters or dynamic limiting to prevent turning your wee little driver into a drink umbrella. Would a single 6.5 inch sub give useful output at 20Hz? That depends on your room gain and other factors but I would put my money on no.

Realistically, you need two subs in the room to battle standing waves and two of those little things might do it--maybe. Time to do a "clean sheet of paper" and actually measure out what size box will fit were. Ten inch max height and ten inch max depth--I get it but how wide can it be? The best thing you can do is measure out the maximum size in all three dimensions and go from there. Say you have 10" height, 16" depth and 20" width to fit under the desk--then you can use 8" car subs which will give you much more output than a 6.5--and most likely cost less to fit your SPL needs.

Look up. Subwoofers are not required to be sitting on the floor--Metallica actually "flies" over 5 tons of subwoofers 30 feet off the ground above the stage for their concerts--to solve bass issues in stadiums. Could you use subwoofers sitting on a bookshelf above your head? Sure can! However, you MUST use subwoofer alignments that are "balanced" to prevent vibration. The simple opposed subwoofer (two drivers on either side of the box facing away from each other) very simple and effective works OK. To minimize vibration, you can use push-pull subwoofers to get the best balance to prevent vibration. Personally, I use a push-pull slot load design subwoofers in my garage--they shake the garage, shake the house but rather amusing to feel almost no vibration on the box even at war volume (118dB each box) A great option if you want to put subwoofers on bookshelves and prevent vibration transfer to the wall. No, I highly doubt you will find a push-pull dual driver subwoofer in a very small 6.5 or 8 inch driver configuration off the shelf--not point-and-click solution there but easy to build. A simple push-pull dual 8" driver sub can easily be built that is around 11" high X 8" deep X whatever width required to get the correct internal space. It might be 2 feet wide or more but not an issue if it is above your head and on a shelf.

Say you have zero ability to make anything, you have two options--learn how to do it or get a design done and built at a higher end car audio place. Those car audio guys can build any enclosure and finish it any way you wish. Another option is to have the car audio crew design/build the subwoofer but leave the finish raw so you can either paint it in matching wall paint (stealth option) or hand the box over to a furniture refurb place and they can put whatever wood veneers you choose or can afford. Amplifiers available go from DSP optioned plate amps to full DSP 2 to 4 channel PA amps with adjustable limiters to prevent blowing the sub and getting the EQ correct.

The good news is you can get the performance you desire in your small space--the bad news is the best option is to custom build such devices. The brutal truth about anything for sale in this world is there must be a demand high enough to make the juice worth the squeeze. Once your demands are such a low sales volume that it is not worth mass producing--you have to go custom. Very common to build custom enclosures in car audio and in pro sound, installed subwoofer systems in various venues are custom made to fit the building and specifications.

You can get what you want but the best chance of getting the performance you desire is to figure out ACTUAL sizes that can be used in your room and shoot for at least two subs. You will gain much needed SPL down low and have a chance at fighting standing waves and other acoustic chaos involved when stuffing 56 foot long 20Hz bass waves in very small spaces. Now that China is the only growth market in consumer audio and they tend to have fairly small spaces, in the future push-pull dual 6.5" subwoofers made to be mounted on a shelf might become available--maybe. At least you have the option to buid one or have a car audio place design and build one for you. Just be aware if you can possibly get an extra inch or two, using 8 inch subwoofer drivers will be much more economical than specialty 6.5 inch subs. DD Audio does have a monster 6.5" sub for car audio--a beast but it runs $369 each and you would need two of them to balance but they are not recommended for sealed operation. 8 inchers are much more plentiful and will provide the performance you need with dozens of options to allow a better design to fit your available space. Not sure if two 6.5" TangBand neodymium drivers each stuffed in a 10" sealed cube sould give meaningful output (you have a 50 to 75 watt power limit) but four of them with one in each corner could do it. They would require a 2 ohm stable amplifier with adjustable limiters to prevent destroying the drivers so the cost keeps going up. All depends on how much money you wish to throw at the problem to save on a very small amount of enclosure size. Things get very expensive when they become really large or very small--model a subwoofer or three in WinISD Pro to gain knowledge how that works.

Good luck in your quest and I wish my answer would of made you happy. At the end of the day, everyone has to follow Hoffman's Iron Law of acoustics and supply VS demand for off-the-shelf solutions. Enjoy

EDIT!!!!

The smallest "real" subwoofer that gives useful response? I designed one for a boombox project that is pending but manipulated the design down. Basically, it is a TangBand 6.5" neodymium driver with about an inch of full stroke that is tuned to 28Hz with two Dayton Audio passive raditors. My reasoning for that tuning frequency is that is about as low as you can go with the driver to get even response and 27.5 Hz is the tuning on the low key of an 88 key piano. Might as well get the full range of piano out of a subwoofer--makes sense to me! Below that frequency, the amount of SPL sealed would generally not be heard in a room so why try?

The size of the box would be 10 inches high, 10 inches deep and 16 inches wide. The two 8" passive radiators should be mounted on each end to keep them in balance and prevent vibration. Performance with 50 or 60 watts into 4 ohms(small, inexpensive plate amp or 2.1 channel chip amp) would be in the range of 100 to 103dB at one meter--not a ton of SPL but at least you could hear it. Use 1/2" plywood--birch ply is preferred and put a brace front to back and top to bottom on either side of the TangBand to prevent cabinet flex. Use wood scrap, maybe glue two pieces of the scrap ply together and make 1.5" X 1" braces. PL Premium explands slightly when it dries so makes a solid choice when building the small cabinet. I think Dayton Audio sells a 50 watt plate amp--little thing which is good because the cabinet is really small. Total cost with plate amp would be around $200. Good luck and I hope that helps.
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post #17 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
To simplify, a direct radiating subwoofer--sealed/ported is an air pump and uses bore X stroke to move air. The amount of air it moves at a specific frequency can be calculated to SPL easily--calculators on the internet will tell you. It don't matter if it is a servo, carbon fiber cones or unicorn horn dust caps--bore X stroke is king.

The other issue is as you go lower in frequency, the higher in SPL is required to hear the bass tones. The Fletcher-Munson curve and that has been known and quantified since the 1930's--it is not "new". Although any driver will go down to 20 Hz, even a 3 inch driver in a clock radio it does not mean you will hear it or it will be useful. I am assuming you want useful output down to 20 or 16Hz which would be at least 90dB or higher just to hear it--because human hearing is very poor down low.

You are in luck, there are parts of audio that want sub bass in very small areas, used in very small spaces with not a lot of options for placement. Commonly called car audio, those guys have been doing just that for decades.

Assuming you want a 10" cube--subtracting for the thickness of the box and driver displacement that comes out to around 0.4 cubic feet of air space. Basically, a 6.5" sub for that size but there are a few drivers that will do that. The "go to" tiny sub driver for many years is the TangBand 6.5 Neo driver. A 4 ohm driver with 12mm of Xmax or around a full inch of peak-to-peak displacement. You can slap together a 10" cube with 1/2" birch plywood easily enough if you have opposing thumbs (some people don't) Throw some pillow stuffings inside and connect to an amplifier with parametric EQ and adjustable limiters or dynamic limiting to prevent turning your wee little driver into a drink umbrella. Would a single 6.5 inch sub give useful output at 20Hz? That depends on your room gain and other factors but I would put my money on no.

Realistically, you need two subs in the room to battle standing waves and two of those little things might do it--maybe. Time to do a "clean sheet of paper" and actually measure out what size box will fit were. Ten inch max height and ten inch max depth--I get it but how wide can it be? The best thing you can do is measure out the maximum size in all three dimensions and go from there. Say you have 10" height, 16" depth and 20" width to fit under the desk--then you can use 8" car subs which will give you much more output than a 6.5--and most likely cost less to fit your SPL needs.

Look up. Subwoofers are not required to be sitting on the floor--Metallica actually "flies" over 5 tons of subwoofers 30 feet off the ground above the stage for their concerts--to solve bass issues in stadiums. Could you use subwoofers sitting on a bookshelf above your head? Sure can! However, you MUST use subwoofer alignments that are "balanced" to prevent vibration. The simple opposed subwoofer (two drivers on either side of the box facing away from each other) very simple and effective works OK. To minimize vibration, you can use push-pull subwoofers to get the best balance to prevent vibration. Personally, I use a push-pull slot load design subwoofers in my garage--they shake the garage, shake the house but rather amusing to feel almost no vibration on the box even at war volume (118dB each box) A great option if you want to put subwoofers on bookshelves and prevent vibration transfer to the wall. No, I highly doubt you will find a push-pull dual driver subwoofer in a very small 6.5 or 8 inch driver configuration off the shelf--not point-and-click solution there but easy to build. A simple push-pull dual 8" driver sub can easily be built that is around 11" high X 8" deep X whatever width required to get the correct internal space. It might be 2 feet wide or more but not an issue if it is above your head and on a shelf.

Say you have zero ability to make anything, you have two options--learn how to do it or get a design done and built at a higher end car audio place. Those car audio guys can build any enclosure and finish it any way you wish. Another option is to have the car audio crew design/build the subwoofer but leave the finish raw so you can either paint it in matching wall paint (stealth option) or hand the box over to a furniture refurb place and they can put whatever wood veneers you choose or can afford. Amplifiers available go from DSP optioned plate amps to full DSP 2 to 4 channel PA amps with adjustable limiters to prevent blowing the sub and getting the EQ correct.

The good news is you can get the performance you desire in your small space--the bad news is the best option is to custom build such devices. The brutal truth about anything for sale in this world is there must be a demand high enough to make the juice worth the squeeze. Once your demands are such a low sales volume that it is not worth mass producing--you have to go custom. Very common to build custom enclosures in car audio and in pro sound, installed subwoofer systems in various venues are custom made to fit the building and specifications.

You can get what you want but the best chance of getting the performance you desire is to figure out ACTUAL sizes that can be used in your room and shoot for at least two subs. You will gain much needed SPL down low and have a chance at fighting standing waves and other acoustic chaos involved when stuffing 56 foot long 20Hz bass waves in very small spaces. Now that China is the only growth market in consumer audio and they tend to have fairly small spaces, in the future push-pull dual 6.5" subwoofers made to be mounted on a shelf might become available--maybe. At least you have the option to buid one or have a car audio place design and build one for you. Just be aware if you can possibly get an extra inch or two, using 8 inch subwoofer drivers will be much more economical than specialty 6.5 inch subs. DD Audio does have a monster 6.5" sub for car audio--a beast but it runs $369 each and you would need two of them to balance but they are not recommended for sealed operation. 8 inchers are much more plentiful and will provide the performance you need with dozens of options to allow a better design to fit your available space. Not sure if two 6.5" TangBand neodymium drivers each stuffed in a 10" sealed cube sould give meaningful output (you have a 50 to 75 watt power limit) but four of them with one in each corner could do it. They would require a 2 ohm stable amplifier with adjustable limiters to prevent destroying the drivers so the cost keeps going up. All depends on how much money you wish to throw at the problem to save on a very small amount of enclosure size. Things get very expensive when they become really large or very small--model a subwoofer or three in WinISD Pro to gain knowledge how that works.

Good luck in your quest and I wish my answer would of made you happy. At the end of the day, everyone has to follow Hoffman's Iron Law of acoustics and supply VS demand for off-the-shelf solutions. Enjoy

EDIT!!!!

The smallest "real" subwoofer that gives useful response? I designed one for a boombox project that is pending but manipulated the design down. Basically, it is a TangBand 6.5" neodymium driver with about an inch of full stroke that is tuned to 28Hz with two Dayton Audio passive raditors. My reasoning for that tuning frequency is that is about as low as you can go with the driver to get even response and 27.5 Hz is the tuning on the low key of an 88 key piano. Might as well get the full range of piano out of a subwoofer--makes sense to me! Below that frequency, the amount of SPL sealed would generally not be heard in a room so why try?

The size of the box would be 10 inches high, 10 inches deep and 16 inches wide. The two 8" passive radiators should be mounted on each end to keep them in balance and prevent vibration. Performance with 50 or 60 watts into 4 ohms(small, inexpensive plate amp or 2.1 channel chip amp) would be in the range of 100 to 103dB at one meter--not a ton of SPL but at least you could hear it. Use 1/2" plywood--birch ply is preferred and put a brace front to back and top to bottom on either side of the TangBand to prevent cabinet flex. Use wood scrap, maybe glue two pieces of the scrap ply together and make 1.5" X 1" braces. PL Premium explands slightly when it dries so makes a solid choice when building the small cabinet. I think Dayton Audio sells a 50 watt plate amp--little thing which is good because the cabinet is really small. Total cost with plate amp would be around $200. Good luck and I hope that helps.
Thanks for the extensive reply, I’ll have to review it again and process carefully. However, just quickly, did you consider using two opposing 6.5s rather than the 1 and 2 radiators? Just curious since I would intuitively think that’d potentially offer even greater power density and vibration elimination for placement off floor.
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post #18 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
“Does anyone know of a very small sealed subwoofer that emphasizes extension over SPL?”

Why does it have to be sealed? Before you say it, yes a ported sub can be just as clean and musical or any other buzzword as a sealed. Ported subs have a bad rep from the HTiB market. I use both, but if I had a small room for near field it would be a ported choice.

“I am looking for something that fills in the lower octaves for some small speakers in a tiny room.”

Are you listening to pipe organ chamber music? If not, 35-40 Hz is plenty of extension. Also what speaker do you have?

“Almost a closet-sized small room.”

Give the dims anyways. Also, max footprint of the sub allowed.

“It’s a tiny little study area, so I don’t need any SPL, but I want that bottom octave in the smallest package possible.”

You meant headroom, not spl, but the more headroom you have the cleaner the sound at any volume.



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I’ll try to measure it tomorrow. I say sealed because sealed rolls off slower and you can use EQ to artificially extend whereas with ported there’s nothing to EQ up, response just falls off cliff.
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This one is super small but super expensive:
https://www.sonance.com/d8/subwoofers
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If 29hz extension is good, JL Audio Dominion D108: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_136D10...Black-Ash.html
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post #21 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
Does anyone know of a very small sealed subwoofer that emphasizes extension over SPL? I am looking for something that fills in the lower octaves for some small speakers in a tiny room. Almost a closet-sized small room. It’s a tiny little study area, so I don’t need any SPL, but I want that bottom octave in the smallest package possible.
What is your budget? What are your target dimensions? Is this for music only?

I did an extensive search a long time ago for the deepest most musical sub I could find that would fit between the legs of an antique piece of furniture where it would be placed. I ended up with the Sunfire HRS-10 (1000-watt 10" sealed sub in an 11.5" cube). I'm very happy with it for music. They also make an HRS-8 (1000-watt 8" driver in a 10" cube (10x10x10)). Don't know if these are still available new.

I also have a Def Tech SC4000 -- it has an 8" driver and goes deep and looks small, but is actually a little bigger than the Sunfire 10" (Def Tech is 11 7/8" x 11 x 12) and the Def Tech has two passive radiators. I'm using the Def Tech for music also on my computer, and it sounds great, but I think the sealed Sunfire 10" is better for music.


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Originally Posted by doubleroll View Post
This one is super small but super expensive:
https://www.sonance.com/d8/subwoofers
Very cool -- 7.5" x 8" x 9" !!


I could have had a D8!


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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
Thanks for the extensive reply, I’ll have to review it again and process carefully. However, just quickly, did you consider using two opposing 6.5s rather than the 1 and 2 radiators? Just curious since I would intuitively think that’d potentially offer even greater power density and vibration elimination for placement off floor.
Be aware when you use two drivers the box size doubles. For my boombox, size/weight is critical so the light weight TangBand at 3.4 pounds at 4 ohms is about as large as I want to go. Also be aware that each TangBand takes TWO of those passive radiators so if you want to use two drivers--you need to use longer stroke 8" passive radiators ($$$ if available) or step up to 10" passive radiators (Dayton Audio has 10's for $25 each)

The other issue is impedanance, if you decide to go opposed driver or (optimally) Push-Pull or Push-Pull Slot Load the two drivers must be wired in parallel. The TangBands are 4 ohms which two in parallel are 2 ohms--not a problem if your amp is rated for 2 ohms (not a problem in car audio, big problem with home audio)

If I was going to hang a subwoofer on a wall--say I put a shelf piece on it like a bizarre bookshelf, I would do it this way.

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/speake...chy7-8ohm.html

The above "7 inch" woofers have 12.5mm of Xmax or a full one inch stroke. They also have a larger voice coil so can handle more power which is a good thing. The above are 8 ohm drivers so you can put two of them in parallel for a nominal 4 ohm load which can easily be driven by most plate amps. I have no idea what the box size required for those drivers, I'd need to model the T/S parameters in software but the TangBand does around 28 Hz in 0.65 cubic feet so I would not expect more than .75 cubic feet at around 30Hz. The Fs or resonant frequency is a bit higher than the TangBands but that driver (originally called "Anarchy") is used with some really narrow (but not small) tapped horns that tune to 25 to 27 Hz. Should get rather close.

I would model the Anarchy drivers tuned to around 29Hz and see how well it plays. Use a push-pull slot loading scheme so it won't look too weird and you have the ends for the two 10" passive radiators. This would mean the box will need to grow to 10.5" X 10.5" so the radiators will fit on each end. The "slot" or plenumn will be in the center of the box. You don't have to build it with such a cross section, build it to fit whatever fits your space better. Passive radiators should be opposed to each other, one on each end facing away from each other to cancel vibration.

Another option is to just build a push-pull sealed box with the Anarcy drivers. They run $66 each so $132 for the pair. You can model what they look like in a sealed box and figure out how much power they can handle. WinISD Pro will model that for you, just keep adding power until you blow past Xmax of the driver by a millimeter or two. This would allow a smaller box and much easier build--one driver firing from one end cone out as normal while the other driver has the magnet side out. Wire the magnet side out driver reverse polarity so it works properly. A very simple and smallest (and least expensive) option if hanging it on a wall is what you want. Sealed is great because as long as you get the cabinet internal air space correct, it allows you more flexibility with what shape you desire to use.

Later on, if you want to get maximum output and wish to run ported or use passive radiators, cut some more plywood and redesign the box (generally larger) to model well with either ports if you can handle the size increase or passive radiators if small as possible is key and the additional 50 bucks for 10" PRs and size demands are OK.

My boombox sub will use a single TangBand Neo 6.5" subwoofer and two Dayton Audio 8" aluminum PRs for size reasons etc. The passive radiators allow porting efficiency/tuning low but without ports, bugs/spiders etc. can't crawl in and they don't eat up space like a huge port length required for such a small box. Basically, the box size is 10" tall, 30" wide and only 7.5 inches deep with the two speakers laid on top (held in place with magnets) They will be driven with a 2.1 channel chip amp at either 24 VDC from a plug in power supply, 18V from a drill battery or plugged into a car at 12 to 14.4 volts DC. The chip amp puts out 64 real world watts into a 4 ohm load at 24 to 25 volts so I don't need or want the Anarchy because of weight concerns. Vibration is not an issue, the entire thing comes apart be it the main speakers or the chip amp and will be taken apart when plugged in. For portable use, my battery voltage is less so not an issue as sub power declines to around 20 watts when connected to a car battery. Total weight for the design is 30 to 32 pounds which is about the max I'd want to carry around--the monster boom boxes of the early 80's were about that weight loaded with 10 D cells and around the same size so I'm close.

For more information, look up push-pull slot loaded or PPSL subs on the DIY Audio site--more jibber-jabber to read to keep you occupided for a loooooong time! I think the idea came out in the 80's from M&K subwoofers and works very well. Sure, almost 40 years later some loser companies imply it takes a genius (GE cough, cough) but they have been around for a very long time. You might have seen some subwoofers used in PA systems that had one sub cone facing out while the other sub cone was magnet side out--that is done to eliminate vibration which is a good thing when "flying" subwoofers. Vibration from subwoofers flying over people's heads is not good--things tend to vibrate out and most people get deeply offended when a 150 pound sub slams them in the head and messes up the hairdo. My dual 15" PPSL subs in the garage will shake the house but not vibrate--it is only magic until you know the trick. Never tried to hang them on my wall, they weigh about 175 pounds each so on terra-firma they stay.

How come you don't see many (any?) push-pull or PPSL subs in consumer audio? They are weird looking, two drivers cost more than one and they are harder to build or hide the external magnet out driver. Be aware if you want to build such a thing, get drivers that are known to be very quiet during their full stroke--the Anarchy is one such driver and works well. You can get vent noise (airflow out of the vent hole in the magnet of subwoofers) this makes a mess if you start cranking and the driver with the magnet side out starts making noise. Generally not a problem when inside a box but when the magnet is outside the box the noise will not be a good thing. Very long stroke drivers tend to get noisy from the vent so if you want push-pull, make an extra effort to find very quiet drivers.

If you want to start building sub boxes--a fun hobby that offers you different performance with the same drivers. The Anarchy can be sealed, ported, bandpass or tapped horn loaded so in the future--if you love cutting wood--two or four of those 25Hz tapped horns will fit under your bed.

First things first, if you want to roll your own and hang them on the wall--best to educate yourself on push-pull alignments, how passive raditors work (think tuning forks for bass!) Get a good idea how different drivers model in software, model them sealed and ported to gain a feel how they work. Not sure how much power you can throw at the Anarchy drivers, quite a bit considering they are so small so they just might be able to run sealed well enough (over 100dB at one meter at 27.5 Hz) Sure, you will be wasting power but as long as they can handle it you should be good. I would expect a pair of Anarchy woofers sealed should be able to handle at least 150 to 200 watts so might do it. Download WinISD Pro (it's free!) load up the T/S parameters and play around with it sealed. You can also model it with EQ to get an idea of what it will do with some plate amps that have a 6dB boost in bass say at 30Hz. Depending on how the box is tuned, that might get you there. Takes a bit of time but you'll learn alot about how subwoofers work in different boxes and alignements. I tend to be curious how things work with my hobbies, others just use hobbies as a way to collect things--all depends on what angle your audio hobby is.

In case you wondered--I am a very fast typist... enjoy!
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post #24 of 31 Old 02-09-2020, 05:32 PM
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The Artison Nano 1:
- measures 7.5" x 8" x 9"
- two 6 1/2" sealed drivers (front / rear)
- 300 watts
- 32 Hz

Seems to be quite good for music, pretty good for theater -> https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...bwoofer-review
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SVS SB1000 13x13x13 12" driver 300 watts RMS/700 peak. $499. You may find something a little smaller, but you will lose capability and probably go up in price. -3db is 24 Hz anechoic.

Rythmik F8 has an 11x15 footprint but is tall at 20", perhaps laying on its side would work for some folks. 20 Hz anechoic.
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You can also look into the Martinlogan subs. They are compact and good. But JL subs are the best compact yet powerful subs.
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post #27 of 31 Old 02-11-2020, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ms View Post
I’ll try to measure it tomorrow. I say sealed because sealed rolls off slower and you can use EQ to artificially extend whereas with ported there’s nothing to EQ up, response just falls off cliff.


How low do you want your subwoofer to go? Is this for music or movies?


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post #28 of 31 Old 02-11-2020, 10:56 AM
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I say sealed because sealed rolls off slower and you can use EQ to artificially extend whereas with ported there’s nothing to EQ up, response just falls off cliff.
Back in the day (1980's), Allison used to sell a product called an "The Electronic Subwoofer" - it was a box with EQ circuit that would make their Allison Model 6 -- 11 1/4" cube speakers with 8" woofers -- produce flat response down to 20hz. I'm not sure how loud you could go with them, but an interesting feat/product nonetheless.


.

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post #29 of 31 Old 02-11-2020, 12:35 PM
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SVS SB1000 13x13x13 12" driver 300 watts RMS/700 peak. $499. You may find something a little smaller, but you will lose capability and probably go up in price. -3db is 24 Hz anechoic.

Rythmik F8 has an 11x15 footprint but is tall at 20", perhaps laying on its side would work for some folks. 20 Hz anechoic.
Also for $400, the SVS SB12-NSD from Amazon (step up from SB-1000). 14.2" (H) x 14.2" (W) x 14.2"(D)
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post #30 of 31 Old 02-12-2020, 10:08 PM
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I'm also looking for a small powerful sub that is under 12" as largest dimension. They are not easy to find, so I'm keeping notes as I go along. Below are the notes I have so far in case it is helpful to anyone:



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