High level sub connection required - REL/Rythmik upgrade?? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 15 Old 02-09-2020, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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High level sub connection required - REL/Rythmik upgrade??

Hi All
I have (another) sub upgrade advice request.

I have some B&W 804 D3's in a large open ended room 8000-9000 Ft3 with a 2 chann music/HT bypass HT system (power amp to the front 2 speakers with an HT bypass preamp that turns off and bypasses for the avr 7.1 ht part), with an old and venerable REL Storm 5.

Now, the storm 5 is great for music - I am a firm adherent of the high level method of sub bass augmentation - and it really adds soundstage and depth to the B&W's, BUT:

1) I think the storm 5 is a little bit slow for the 804's since the upgrade from the 603 S3's
2) it is lacking in punch for the HT setup in this room, although it tries to do a pretty good job. EXtension is not bad (tried to attach REW picture - no go).

Anyway, looking at an upgrade to dual subs with the aforementioned high level integration to the mains, for music, and of course LFE is piece of cake for any sub for the HT part.

The obvious is 2 x new REL S series but here in NZ they are pricy. REL has said to me the T9i is probably not a good match to the 804's (not fast enough I suspect).

So I'm thinking 2 x Rythmik F12 with the PEQ3 amp. I have REW and a Umic-1 to tune all this BUT I dont want to loose the room filling augmentation nature of the REL. The rythmik would need to be freighted to NZ but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

Another reason for the high level out is to isolate each sub to only reproduce the extension from the L or R channel each one is connected to, which is what I want. The preamp parasound 2100 New classic has 2 x sub outputs but they are mono. The processor has 2 x LFE outputs so no issue there.

Thoughts?
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post #2 of 15 Old 02-11-2020, 08:40 PM
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Do you know the conditions of trialling the Rymik subs?
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post #3 of 15 Old 02-11-2020, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floatingkiwi View Post
Hi All
I have (another) sub upgrade advice request.

I have some B&W 804 D3's in a large open ended room 8000-9000 Ft3 with a 2 chann music/HT bypass HT system (power amp to the front 2 speakers with an HT bypass preamp that turns off and bypasses for the avr 7.1 ht part), with an old and venerable REL Storm 5.

Now, the storm 5 is great for music - I am a firm adherent of the high level method of sub bass augmentation - and it really adds soundstage and depth to the B&W's, BUT:

1) I think the storm 5 is a little bit slow for the 804's since the upgrade from the 603 S3's
2) it is lacking in punch for the HT setup in this room, although it tries to do a pretty good job. EXtension is not bad (tried to attach REW picture - no go).

Anyway, looking at an upgrade to dual subs with the aforementioned high level integration to the mains, for music, and of course LFE is piece of cake for any sub for the HT part.

The obvious is 2 x new REL S series but here in NZ they are pricy. REL has said to me the T9i is probably not a good match to the 804's (not fast enough I suspect).

So I'm thinking 2 x Rythmik F12 with the PEQ3 amp. I have REW and a Umic-1 to tune all this BUT I dont want to loose the room filling augmentation nature of the REL. The rythmik would need to be freighted to NZ but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

Another reason for the high level out is to isolate each sub to only reproduce the extension from the L or R channel each one is connected to, which is what I want. The preamp parasound 2100 New classic has 2 x sub outputs but they are mono. The processor has 2 x LFE outputs so no issue there.

Thoughts?
I had a Parasound Halo P5 and I can confirm that the subwoofer in/outs are totally independent when HT Bypass is used. This is very handy if you are running a pair of subwoofers and have a processor with dual independent subwoofer outs like processors or receivers with Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT. The Parasound 2100 behaves the same way as the P5, P6 and HINT 6. When inputs 1 - 6 are selected on the 2100, the subwoofers outs carry the same mono signal.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #4 of 15 Old 02-12-2020, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
Do you know the conditions of trialling the Rymik subs?
Not in NZ buddy!
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post #5 of 15 Old 02-12-2020, 12:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I had a Parasound Halo P5 and I can confirm that the subwoofer in/outs are totally independent when HT Bypass is used. This is very handy if you are running a pair of subwoofers and have a processor with dual independent subwoofer outs like processors or receivers with Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT. The Parasound 2100 behaves the same way as the P5, P6 and HINT 6. When inputs 1 - 6 are selected on the 2100, the subwoofers outs carry the same mono signal.
Yes I'm aware of that - but as far as music goes, I'd like to connect the F12 on each side to it's respective speaker, L or R. The high (speaker) level is the only way to do this in my system.
Yes I know, bass below such and such a frequency isn't localisable (?)..... yes it is when listening to 2 chann music when the bass drum is all the way to the left!!

So enrico, how do your subs behave a-la rel high level hookup? For my music uses, that'll be the method.
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post #6 of 15 Old 02-12-2020, 01:38 AM
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Ah right. Just a thought what about the Velodyne DD+. They have speaker high level with built in eq and variable phase 0-180. I have the DD15 @ DD12 (not +) and are very tight and fast and musical. Think the DD+ are still available. Something about those RELS. The twin Strata 5 are awesome too. I have too many subs.
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post #7 of 15 Old 02-12-2020, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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TBH, I've only ever had the Storm 5 as a sub and have never heard anything else. It just sounds like the RythmiK products have a clean articulate bass I'm looking for. I just dont want to lose the REL's ability to flesh out the music capabilities of the system. Yes, it certainly seems REL are doing some right things over the years with their approach to music making - and now that they've addressed user's issues with HT ability with the new S serie, I just dont know. Very expensive they are, precioussss.
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post #8 of 15 Old 02-12-2020, 09:02 PM
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In all honesty if you can demo some different ones. I was surprised by the Velodyne Digital performance on music. Great to have all the extras on the Velodyne DD versatility. What other brands have the high level like RELS?Does that Neutrik connection make a difference I wonder.
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post #9 of 15 Old 02-12-2020, 10:01 PM
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Personally I like the REL 212se (also the GI but think I would take the 212se)over here they are expensive but so are others JL Audio and SVS. The 212se gets great reviews. I like the REL and as you have said you still like them for that high level reason as well as how they fill the room. Mate tell me b off if you want to but just trying to help. My receiver has great music and movies obviously sound and has got stereo sub outputs on top of the high connections available on the RELS.
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post #10 of 15 Old 02-16-2020, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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In all honesty if you can demo some different ones. I was surprised by the Velodyne Digital performance on music. Great to have all the extras on the Velodyne DD versatility. What other brands have the high level like RELS?Does that Neutrik connection make a difference I wonder.
We can't try much in NZ, there's not much available here. No velodyne. WE have to buy something to try it here, if you can find it.
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post #11 of 15 Old 02-16-2020, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Personally I like the REL 212se (also the GI but think I would take the 212se)over here they are expensive but so are others JL Audio and SVS. The 212se gets great reviews. I like the REL and as you have said you still like them for that high level reason as well as how they fill the room. Mate tell me b off if you want to but just trying to help. My receiver has great music and movies obviously sound and has got stereo sub outputs on top of the high connections available on the RELS.
My music listening is independant of the receiver, hence the need for the different hookups.
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post #12 of 15 Old 02-16-2020, 07:19 PM
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Sounds a bit like that over here too. Would really like to try the XTZ 99.25 they are stand mount speakers and really sound awesome value but probably same they will let you try them but if you aren't what you were expecting or the room plays havic i end up paying to freight back which is quite a bit, which is fear enough. Think alot companies are doing online now and also switching to online.

Ok ideally you want the same hook-up as the REL high level and low level independent but work together? Matter of interest have you ever heard/tried stereo subs? Your thoughts if you have. I'm saying go for another Storm just wondering.
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post #13 of 15 Old 02-17-2020, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds a bit like that over here too. Would really like to try the XTZ 99.25 they are stand mount speakers and really sound awesome value but probably same they will let you try them but if you aren't what you were expecting or the room plays havic i end up paying to freight back which is quite a bit, which is fear enough. Think alot companies are doing online now and also switching to online.

Ok ideally you want the same hook-up as the REL high level and low level independent but work together? Matter of interest have you ever heard/tried stereo subs? Your thoughts if you have. I'm saying go for another Storm just wondering.
No I haven't tried stereo subs - I'm always on the lookout for another storm! there was a black one on trademe some time ago (I have cherry) but I missed it and it was a bit rough anyway...
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post #14 of 15 Old 02-18-2020, 12:33 AM
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Bit of a long shot but what about MJ Acoustic think they have the same principle for hooking up with mains. Never heard one. The thing with second hand subs like the REL down firing with no grille so to speak, check the cone really closely as well.
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post #15 of 15 Old 02-18-2020, 12:57 AM
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What about using a line level crossover instead?
Split to the amp and subwoofers.
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/...crossover.html

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