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-   -   Information/Definitions for Horns (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/3122776-information-definitions-horns.html)

nikg 02-12-2020 05:43 AM

Information/Definitions for Horns
 
I am intrigued with horn subwoofers. It appears that they offer some great benefits with regards to SPL and also sound quality. Ability to get the same sound with less power or fewer drivers or smaller drivers compared to other designs like sealed or ported.
However, I am getting confused about all the variations and characteristics of each. Tapped horns, front loaded horns, tuba horns, folded horns etc. Also specific designs from specific people like Danley, Fitzmaurice, lil mike. F20, lilwrecker, Full Marty, Titan 39 etc etc.
Is there a thread or website that explains all of this? For instance, would clearly explain each horn type or category. Like some of the designs have a sealed rear cavity firing into the "horn" pathway where others have the driver "open" on both ends and are placed within the horn pathway using a specific formula. Also is a tuba horn a type of front loaded horn etc? Explanation of the general characteristics of each type as far as efficiency, response etc. Pros and cons. Suitable drivers. Is a folded horn used to achieve a certain box size but same thing could be achieved with a simpler design if you were willing to build a longer/larger enclosure. Finally, an explanation of who's designs are what. For instance, the F20 is a specific tapped horn...but at the end of the day it is a tapped horn.

Thanks

ClawAndTalon 02-12-2020 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikg (Post 59234164)
I am intrigued with horn subwoofers. It appears that they offer some great benefits with regards to SPL and also sound quality. Ability to get the same sound with less power or fewer drivers or smaller drivers compared to other designs like sealed or ported.

However, I am getting confused about all the variations and characteristics of each. Tapped horns, front loaded horns, tuba horns, folded horns etc. Also specific designs from specific people like Danley, Fitzmaurice, lil mike. F20, lilwrecker, Full Marty, Titan 39 etc etc.

Is there a thread or website that explains all of this? For instance, would clearly explain each horn type or category. Like some of the designs have a sealed rear cavity firing into the "horn" pathway where others have the driver "open" on both ends and are placed within the horn pathway using a specific formula. Also is a tuba horn a type of front loaded horn etc? Explanation of the general characteristics of each type as far as efficiency, response etc. Pros and cons. Suitable drivers. Is a folded horn used to achieve a certain box size but same thing could be achieved with a simpler design if you were willing to build a longer/larger enclosure. Finally, an explanation of who's designs are what. For instance, the F20 is a specific tapped horn...but at the end of the day it is a tapped horn.



Thanks


A folded horn loaded subwoofer has the advantage of maintaining cleaner headroom with lower power; efficiency. There is no free lunch, you will need a much larger cabinet compared to traditional vented or ported subwoofers for the same extension.

In any subwoofer design pick two

Smaller cabinet
Lower extension and or higher headroom
Lower cost

The folded horn is the best way to really get those last two in one package. As you said, a smaller cheaper driver, with lower and thus cheaper power supply, are sufficient. Paul Klipsch and company once made a plexiglass Klipschorn, and they could observe the driver. At full blitzing volume the driver was barely moving.

PA and pro rigs are all about a folded horn subwoofer tuned to 40-60 hz, and with a lot of them and you get concert bass slam without causing a local brown out.

Different horn designs aren’t much different from each other at the end of the day. Much of their perks are towards construction size preference. Like does the sub need to be shallow so it can be the width and height of a wall, and not stick out much; one might be better at that. But at the end of the day each one is attempting to maximize efficiency.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nikg 02-12-2020 05:42 PM

Thanks for the feedback.
However I am now even more curious and would love a reference to a thread or site that explains the different variations etc. Do you know where I might find that?

ClawAndTalon 02-12-2020 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikg (Post 59237642)
Thanks for the feedback.

However I am now even more curious and would love a reference to a thread or site that explains the different variations etc. Do you know where I might find that?


Let me see what I can dig up.

Beware of anyone saying that a particular horn design is better in any remarkable way for sound quality. At the end of the day the different designs are based off of shape to accommodate placement. There are others that go somewhat smaller but need corner placement, or might not have full extension for HT movie use, but slam on music.

In any case if you find a DIY plan, look up reviews, get measurements...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nikg 02-12-2020 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon (Post 59237960)
Let me see what I can dig up.

Beware of anyone saying that a particular horn design is better in any remarkable way for sound quality. At the end of the day the different designs are based off of shape to accommodate placement. There are others that go somewhat smaller but need corner placement, or might not have full extension for HT movie use, but slam on music.

In any case if you find a DIY plan, look up reviews, get measurements...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have spent a few hours in various forums and here is what I have gathered. Maybe somebody can tell me if I am correct.

1-All horns have a taper to them, unlike a transmission line design.
2-Seems like there are two basic horn designs. Front loaded (FLH) and Back/Rear Loaded.
3-Front loaded has a sealed rear chamber for the driver and Back Loaded has no sealed chamber.
4-A Tapped Horn (TH) appears to be a special kind of back-loaded design where the driver is placed within the horn at a specific point near the mouth (opening). Appears to be at this spot due to wavelength tuning.
5-a Scoop might be a back-loaded design as well?
6-A folded horn I think is basically the most typical front loaded design to keep things in a more compact cabinet
7-the Lilwrecker appears to be a back loaded, along with Danley SPUD and other Danley designs I think
8-Bill Fitzmaurice designs appear to be front loaded designs. Several popular designs are Tuba like THT = Tuba Home Theater
9-Tapped horns appear to be able to extend lower but have less bandwidth than front loaded, might be more efficient?
10-Tapped horns appear to be smaller than front loaded, but I think this is smaller relative to frequency achieved and not necessarily overall output.
11-Tapped horns are more limiting. Seems like they are more difficult to build correctly, require more specific drivers, and you can't change the parameters like in a front load. For instance, you can change the sealed chamber size on a front load to change some characteristics of the overall horn. With tapped you are stuck designing to TS parameters of the driver.
12- TH can unload and damage the driver below the tuning frequency much like a ported design whereas front loaded has sealed chamber to help act as a spring.

Again, these are a dozen statements that I THINK are correct. I am not stating them as facts. Would love if somebody could give me yes or no on any or all of the above.

nikg 02-12-2020 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon (Post 59237960)
Let me see what I can dig up.

Beware of anyone saying that a particular horn design is better in any remarkable way for sound quality. At the end of the day the different designs are based off of shape to accommodate placement. There are others that go somewhat smaller but need corner placement, or might not have full extension for HT movie use, but slam on music.

In any case if you find a DIY plan, look up reviews, get measurements...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have spent a few hours in various forums and here is what I have gathered. Maybe somebody can tell me if I am correct.

1-All horns have a taper to them, unlike a transmission line design.
2-Seems like there are two basic horn designs. Front loaded (FLH) and Back/Rear Loaded.
3-Front loaded has a sealed rear chamber for the driver and Back Loaded has no sealed chamber.
4-A Tapped Horn (TH) appears to be a special kind of back-loaded design where the driver is placed within the horn at a specific point near the mouth (opening). Appears to be at this spot due to wavelength tuning.
5-a Scoop might be a back-loaded design as well?
6-A folded horn I think is basically the most typical front loaded design to keep things in a more compact cabinet
7-the Lilwrecker appears to be a back loaded, along with Danley SPUD and other Danley designs I think
8-Bill Fitzmaurice designs appear to be front loaded designs. Several popular designs are Tuba like THT = Tuba Home Theater
9-Tapped horns appear to be able to extend lower but have less bandwidth than front loaded, might be more efficient?
10-Tapped horns appear to be smaller than front loaded, but I think this is smaller relative to frequency achieved and not necessarily overall output.
11-Tapped horns are more limiting. Seems like they are more difficult to build correctly, require more specific drivers, and you can't change the parameters like in a front load. For instance, you can change the sealed chamber size on a front load to change some characteristics of the overall horn. With tapped you are stuck designing to TS parameters of the driver.
12- TH can unload and damage the driver below the tuning frequency much like a ported design whereas front loaded has sealed chamber to help act as a spring.

Again, these are a dozen statements that I THINK are correct. I am not stating them as facts. Would love if somebody could give me yes or no on any or all of the above.


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