Anyone listened to JTR Captivator 2400 and PSA TV3612? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sdmf74 View Post
I didnt even realize those mains were PSA (not familiar with the brand) & was viewing on my phone but they definitely did not look like they housed dual 10" drivers sitting next to that sub. I bet they sound great!

I love horn loaded speakers, I'm itching to upgrade my KLF30's for some RF7III's.

Yup, dual 10" drivers. It just looks funny (until you get used to it) sitting next to dual 18" drivers. I've had a few people from the forum interested in the TV36 come by and audition them in the past 6 months. They have all come away impressed with the TV36, but even MORE impressed with the PSA 210's. They are phenomenal speakers.
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post #32 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
That is exactly what I mean man. It’s a guess. The 2400 measured close to the 2400 ULF so it does have very good low performance even with a smaller cab. You have experienced what a 1200 XS can do.


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It's a educated guess based of what data is available. These are just subwoofers Ray, it's not that difficult to figure things out if you have the driver parameter's, amp power, cab volume, and tuning point.


The TV3612 is tuned low enough and has enough displacement to produce ULF output in the realm of the 2400. Aside from that 2 members have compared both and have said the same thing. Similar ULF performance, more mid-bass, and better Sound Quality. Pretty much mimics exactly what I said.
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post #33 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 07:58 AM
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Anyone listened to JTR Captivator 2400 and PSA TV3612?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
Yup, dual 10" drivers. It just looks funny (until you get used to it) sitting next to dual 18" drivers. I've had a few people from the forum interested in the TV36 come by and audition them in the past 6 months. They have all come away impressed with the TV36, but even MORE impressed with the PSA 210's. They are phenomenal speakers.


I can certainly understand wanting the best, but will you ever truly need a sub that large for your room? I know PSA makes smaller subs which will perform similar but perhaps only less headroom...


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post #34 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I can certainly understand wanting the best, but will you ever truly need a sub that large for your room? I know PSA makes smaller subs just as capable...


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Do any of us “truly need” the equipment we have?

Do you truly need the tower speakers in your avatar, or could you get by with something a little smaller?
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post #35 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 08:16 AM
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Anyone listened to JTR Captivator 2400 and PSA TV3612?

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Originally Posted by jsc79 View Post
Do any of us “truly need” the equipment we have?



Do you truly need the tower speakers in your avatar, or could you get by with something a little smaller?

Really? No comment...

Sorry, I thought you were Dave.

(Edited)



"Most theories on audio and audio reproduction will be proven wrong only when the laws of physics change."

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post #36 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jsc79 View Post
Do any of us “truly need” the equipment we have?

Do you truly need the tower speakers in your avatar, or could you get by with something a little smaller?

I tried smaller speakers and subs and even just using avr for amps...I need more still.
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post #37 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Really? No comment...

Sorry, I thought you were Dave.

(Edited)
Nope, no comment from the peanut gallery.
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post #38 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I can certainly understand wanting the best, but will you ever truly need a sub that large for your room? I know PSA makes smaller subs just as capable...


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Yes, PSA does make some smaller vented subs that are awesome. But those smaller subs do not provide ULF, only LF bass. Tom's new TV36 and 42 designs are an attempt (and very successful I might add) to provide both awesome mid bass that PSA is known for AND great ULF. Unfortunately, in order to get that you need a large volume cabinet. But once you've heard great ULF it's hard to go back to a higher tuned sub.

And one more item of note. I have a VERY large room to fill, on a concrete slab. I wanted mid bass that could slam me in the chest such as the gun shot scenes in JW and ULF that could vibrate my chair such as the pod scene in WOTW. I've tied an SVS PC Ultra, SVS SB16 Ultra and a JTR 2400. All great subs. But none of them could give me what I desired as stated above except for the TV36. I'm ok with a big box if that is what it takes to deliver that.
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post #39 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
Yes, PSA does make some smaller vented subs that are awesome. But those smaller subs do not provide ULF, only LF bass. Tom's new TV36 and 42 designs are an attempt (and very successful I might add) to provide both awesome mid bass that PSA is known for AND great ULF. Unfortunately, in order to get that you need a large volume cabinet. But once you've heard great ULF it's hard to go back to a higher tuned sub.

And one more item of note. I have a VERY large room to fill, on a concrete slab. I wanted mid bass that could slam me in the chest such as the gun shot scenes in JW and ULF that could vibrate my chair such as the pod scene in WOTW. I've tied an SVS PC Ultra, SVS SB16 Ultra and a JTR 2400. All great subs. But none of them could give me what I desired as stated above except for the TV36. I'm ok with a big box if that is what it takes to deliver that.
ULF is considered frequencies below <25hz. The higher tuned PSA subs do just fine in the 16-25hz. If you want that last octave 5-15hz, then you need sealed or low tuned ported.
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post #40 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
Yes, PSA does make some smaller vented subs that are awesome. But those smaller subs do not provide ULF, only LF bass. Tom's new TV36 and 42 designs are an attempt (and very successful I might add) to provide both awesome mid bass that PSA is known for AND great ULF. Unfortunately, in order to get that you need a large volume cabinet. But once you've heard great ULF it's hard to go back to a higher tuned sub.

And one more item of note. I have a VERY large room to fill, on a concrete slab. I wanted mid bass that could slam me in the chest such as the gun shot scenes in JW and ULF that could vibrate my chair such as the pod scene in WOTW. I've tied an SVS PC Ultra, SVS SB16 Ultra and a JTR 2400. All great subs. But none of them could give me what I desired as stated above except for the TV36. I'm ok with a big box if that is what it takes to deliver that.


Ok, I suppose that your room is too large to allow a sealed sub to provide the same with room gain?

I’ve been looking at the S3612 ipal (2 should work) for my room, sealed room, 2200 cubes. In your opinion will this be a good choice?


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post #41 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 09:27 AM
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If you want a sealed sub to act like a ported sub you need to bost the low end with a Low shelf filter or a Linkwitz transform. The problem is you need lots of power and excursion to do this, can these drivers handle that, I would ask the builder.

The Captivator 2400 has new drivers now so it has not been tested as well. I believe they will be.
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post #42 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Ok, I suppose that your room is too large to allow a sealed sub to provide the same with room gain?

I’ve been looking at the S3612 ipal (2 should work) for my room, sealed room, 2200 cubes. In your opinion will this be a good choice?


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With my open floor plan, I have about 8,000+ cf of open space, and I'm on cement. A vented sub is the most appropriate sub for me to get the tactile response I was looking for. For me, it's not just about how loud it plays, but how it feels.

I am far from an expert on what might work for you. A lot depends on what you use your system for (movies vs. music), what volume you listen at and what type of experience you are looking for. Also, some people just prefer ported over sealed for the TR they provide over the same number of sealed subs.

Hopefully others can provide you with some good feedback. Mike Thomas (mwthomas) has provided some very good posts lately related to the new low tuned ported subs vs. sealed that you might want to read. Good luck.
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post #43 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
If you want a sealed sub to act like a ported sub you need to bost the low end with a Low shelf filter or a Linkwitz transform. The problem is you need lots of power and excursion to do this, can these drivers handle that, I would ask the builder.



The Captivator 2400 has new drivers now so it has not been tested as well. I believe they will be.

With appropriate room gain a low end shelf isn’t needed. I’ve applied one to taste however to nearly all sub tunes I’ve done tho.


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post #44 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sdmf74 View Post
Made me smile those mid sized mains next to that beast, need to get some big ol Klipsch mains to offset the look, and probably the output as well!
I think his L/C/R are fine.

Some people also told me I need a bigger TV...



That's a 75" TV BTW...

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post #45 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 10:06 AM
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You do need it if you want the response of the ported sub which boost the low end without the power and excursion but drops off faster after tune. I know you may know that but I always state the obvious for others in case.

As for blind testing and such, we hear response variations in the sub frequencies, a different response will sound different than another, this includes a deeper reaching sub over another. So if one just throws a sub in a room and then does the same with another they are hearing the subs response differences. If you match the responses including low passing the deeper sub to match the higher tuned sub then if matched equally they will sound much more similar than different if both are played within the lesser subs limits.
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post #46 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 11:11 AM
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edited due to posting in wrong thread, sorry guys.

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post #47 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 11:52 AM
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Tom,
Thanks for the huge compliment but I don't belong in that same group. I basically read what those guys did, take their advise, and then build stuff based on those comments. Of course I experiment with different designs and such and I always blind test everybody including myself. I was so relieved to read what Dr. Toole had said about sound and subwoofer frequencies as I thought I was going crazy based on my room tests with various sub systems. Now I am learning wood routing techniques to make them look nice. I want to build more just to practice LOL. I might build a dual driver 18 inch sub low tuned similar to your TV series but using a cheap driver to see if I can get it to sound similar to my XXX-18s in huge sealed boxes but with that pro audio midbass added. It should be fun. I know I could port my subs now and have huge low end spl but just in sealed boxes they have a rising response to 10hz already.
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post #48 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 12:07 PM
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Tom, honestly, I'm not sure how you are contributing to the OP. He is asking about your 3612 and the 2400. Nobody has even mentioned anything about servo in this particular thread until your post.

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post #49 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 12:13 PM
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Tom, honestly, I'm not sure how you are contributing to the OP. He is asking about your 3612 and the 2400. Nobody has even mentioned anything about servo in this particular thread until your post.

Todd
Yikes. You are correct. I posted this in the wrong thread. I mean, it is all still accurate but obviously it is ruffling brand loyalists so consider it moved. Sorry bout that..

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post #50 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 12:14 PM
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The answer to the OP is that nobody knows since the JTR sub is new with a newer driver. I know there are some RS1 and RS2 subs in the wild but any Cap2400s? Then having owned both the TV3612 and the new Cap2400 would be more rare. I know people compared the TV36 ipal and older 2400, but both subs are different. The best part of this question is you can't go wrong, great subs either way. How much would be quad FV18s because that is the fair comparsion as well.

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post #51 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, new question and hopefully a lot less of a fire starter. If I placed a 4000ULF-ST behind the sofa on the left side of the room (second photo), the subs would be about 8 inches or less from the rear of the sofa. Would this impede the sound in any way? Would I feel like the bass was localized since it is on one side of my room? Considering the 4000ULF-ST since it's much cheaper than two subs and for its output.
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post #52 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 07:02 PM
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I’m trying to figure out the largest sub I can get without it taking over the room visually. Obviously, the PSA is taller, but depth and wits the are similar.

My question is which one goes lower and plays louder? If the JTR can do what the PSA does, I’d go with the smaller cabinet.

Thank you.
Like Dave Ol, I've owned both. I had dual JTR2400ULF's and now have dual PSA TV36 iPals. I think Dave did a nice job of summing up the differences between the two so I'll just reiterate the fact that there truly are differences between their sound signatures. Some might prefer the sound of the JTR better and others might prefer the sound of the PSA better... that will come down to personal preferences. Both are subs that have tons of power and can put a smile on your face. Personally I prefer the TV36 for the same reasons Dave described. But either way, make no doubt about it, these are both heavy hitting serious subs.

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post #53 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
I tried smaller speakers and subs and even just using avr for amps...I need more still.
LOL

So true, way back. I had an AVR, then start building the monster one piece at the time. And now run Towers with matching bookshelf for surrounds. Using two Power Amps, an AVP instead of an AVR. And two 18" subs, in my medium room of 1728^3 ft. Yes it can be very addictive to some, and more to others like me


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post #54 of 66 Old 02-13-2020, 08:51 PM
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Okay, new question and hopefully a lot less of a fire starter. If I placed a 4000ULF-ST behind the sofa on the left side of the room (second photo), the subs would be about 8 inches or less from the rear of the sofa. Would this impede the sound in any way? Would I feel like the bass was localized since it is on one side of my room? Considering the 4000ULF-ST since it's much cheaper than two subs and for its output.
Now we are talking!

It is called a ST, as in sofa table version right?

As long as the ports are not blocked, which in your case, they are not, you should be fine.

I also have my regular Cap 4000ULF on the right side of my room, where the FR is the best at the MLP. I never felt the bass was localized.

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post #55 of 66 Old 02-14-2020, 04:52 AM
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Anyone listened to JTR Captivator 2400 and PSA TV3612?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Like Dave Ol, I've owned both. I had dual JTR2400ULF's and now have dual PSA TV36 iPals. I think Dave did a nice job of summing up the differences between the two so I'll just reiterate the fact that there truly are differences between their sound signatures. Some might prefer the sound of the JTR better and others might prefer the sound of the PSA better... that will come down to personal preferences. Both are subs that have tons of power and can put a smile on your face. Personally I prefer the TV36 for the same reasons Dave described. But either way, make no doubt about it, these are both heavy hitting serious subs.

Well said, and for me when I was demoing a lot of subs (in as blind a fashion as we could) I sometimes found differences, but those differences were mostly subtle and nearly always just... different. In nearly every case I couldn’t denote preference one way or another, and if i could it was subtle and nearly insignificant. I found this time and time again.

To me it all came down to price and a few of the most basic specs, (which we measured inside and outside) when these things were more or less the same, so was my opinion. After a while, me and my crew stopped our subwoofer craze because it just wasn’t worth our time. Subwoofers aren’t as complicated as some make them out to be.

We found that, HSU, JTR, PSA, Rythmik, And SVS and a few others all make great subs with little to no reservation. When it comes to a soup to nuts evaluation of brand ownership, I found PSA and HSU more appealing, but if those brands go tits up, I’ll have no issue gladly going to one of the others. I actually still own some of those others and are still in use...


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post #56 of 66 Old 02-14-2020, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbadbob2k2 View Post
Okay, new question and hopefully a lot less of a fire starter. If I placed a 4000ULF-ST behind the sofa on the left side of the room (second photo), the subs would be about 8 inches or less from the rear of the sofa. Would this impede the sound in any way? Would I feel like the bass was localized since it is on one side of my room? Considering the 4000ULF-ST since it's much cheaper than two subs and for its output.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Like Dave Ol, I've owned both. I had dual JTR2400ULF's and now have dual PSA TV36 iPals. I think Dave did a nice job of summing up the differences between the two so I'll just reiterate the fact that there truly are differences between their sound signatures. Some might prefer the sound of the JTR better and others might prefer the sound of the PSA better... that will come down to personal preferences. Both are subs that have tons of power and can put a smile on your face. Personally I prefer the TV36 for the same reasons Dave described. But either way, make no doubt about it, these are both heavy hitting serious subs.
Since Dave and Hop are the only ones that have heard both, I would definitely consider their opinions. I own 2x2400ulf, the "little" brother to the 4000ulf and to be fair, I have not heard the new PSA's. I would tend to agree with them in the fact that they will have different sound signatures. Dave already gave you a good description on this thoughts of the 3612. I'd like to offer mine on the JTR, it will have a heavier, robust and dare I say some violence to it compared to the subs I have heard so far. For me, that heavy signature appeals to me very much. For movies, it's the bomb! Pun intended.

As most have said though, it's difficult for us to know what YOU would like. We can only share our thoughts and experiences. Your best bet, other than pulling an Imureh and order one of everything, is to find owners close to you and listen for yourself.

Other than that, I would spend a lot of time on each brand thread and ask a lot of questions and read lots of reviews and PM some owners. You can get a pretty good idea of which way you might lean.

If I remember correct, you have a pretty big room and the 4000ulf has a ton of fire power so it shouldn't have any problem filling your space. Localization likely won't be an issue unless your room doesn't play nice with the sub placement.

Todd

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post #58 of 66 Old 02-14-2020, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Since Dave and Hop are the only ones that have heard both, I would definitely consider their opinions. I own 2x2400ulf, the "little" brother to the 4000ulf and to be fair, I have not heard the new PSA's. I would tend to agree with them in the fact that they will have different sound signatures. Dave already gave you a good description on this thoughts of the 3612. I'd like to offer mine on the JTR, it will have a heavier, robust and dare I say some violence to it compared to the subs I have heard so far. For me, that heavy signature appeals to me very much. For movies, it's the bomb! Pun intended.

As most have said though, it's difficult for us to know what YOU would like. We can only share our thoughts and experiences. Your best bet, other than pulling an Imureh and order one of everything, is to find owners close to you and listen for yourself.

Other than that, I would spend a lot of time on each brand thread and ask a lot of questions and read lots of reviews and PM some owners. You can get a pretty good idea of which way you might lean.

If I remember correct, you have a pretty big room and the 4000ulf has a ton of fire power so it shouldn't have any problem filling your space. Localization likely won't be an issue unless your room doesn't play nice with the sub placement.

Todd
Just pulled the trigger on the 4000ULF-ST. Now I'll have a place to set a drink while getting blasted by the subs.


It helps that JTR is somewhat local to me and Jeff was of course very helpful with my questions. Can't wait!
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post #59 of 66 Old 02-14-2020, 01:51 PM
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^^Congrats. One h3ll of an excellent choice.
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post #60 of 66 Old 02-14-2020, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbadbob2k2 View Post
Just pulled the trigger on the 4000ULF-ST. Now I'll have a place to set a drink while getting blasted by the subs.


It helps that JTR is somewhat local to me and Jeff was of course very helpful with my questions. Can't wait!
Wow that is an excellent choice. Go big or go home. The Cap 4000 is still the king of ULF. Congrats
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