PSA V1812 x4 Vs Monolith 15 x4 | Sitting Square Room Dead Center - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Question V1812, FV18, Monolith 15 | Sitting Square Room Dead Center

Edit: As this thread went on, we talked about optimizing for concrete floors, square rooms, modes, Toole's book and the Rythmik FV18 was entered into the mix. in the end, I purchased FV18 x4. I am still deciding on the driver type and will update this thread as I receive and measure my subs.

---

I have been agonizing over this decision and need some help. I am in the middle of building a home theatre and can't decide on the subs.

Here are the details:
18x18x8', 2592 ft3 room. The MLP is dead center. My seat position cannot change. The room is sealed and sound isolated. I am on a concrete floor. My usage is 100% home theatre. Actually, 80/20 games/movies. Reference volume.

For speakers, I am going with PSA: MT110 x6 and 1 MTM210. For Atmos: JBL SCS8 x4. I am going with 4 subs. Perhaps my logic is off, but based on research, with 4 corner-loaded subs in a square room, enough output, and some EQ with MSO/REW, I should be able to balance, and/or, overpower dips.

I am able to get V1812 x4 and Monolith 15 x4 for the same price so the price doesn't factor into this decision. But, with that said, both are around $5500 out the door so I am open to other options if necessary. Though I will say, I have read about every option possible.

What Matters to Me
  • Smooth Blend with Speakers
  • Powerful and Tight Bass
  • Ability/Overhead to EQ Dips

What Does Not Matter to Me
  • Price Difference Between These Two Models
  • Size and Aesthetics
  • Customer Service, Warranty, Future Problems
  • American Made Vs Something Else
  • How Nice of a Guy Tom from PSA is. I know he is. Doesn't Factor

I appreciate all insight. I would love to hear from people who have heard both or have similar setups and problems. The conflicting thoughts in my head are around the larger cabinet of the Monolith and it's measured ability to play clean, low, and deep versus the PSA ideally being designed to work with my speakers and having more output in the impact (<30hz) range and overpowering my concrete floor problem. And, other things I am probably forgetting to articulate now.

I will attach a mockup (currently with the V1812's) of my floorplan. Thanks again!
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post #2 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samorf View Post
I have been agonizing over this decision and need some help. I am in the middle of building a home theatre and can't decide on the subs.

Here are the details:
18x18x8', 2592 ft3 room. The MLP is dead center. My seat position cannot change. The room is sealed and sound isolated. I am on a concrete floor. My usage is 100% home theatre. Actually, 80/20 games/movies. Reference volume.

For speakers, I am going with PSA: MT110 x6 and 1 MTM210. For Atmos: JBL SCS8 x4. I am going with 4 subs. Perhaps my logic is off, but based on research, with 4 corner-loaded subs in a square room, enough output, and some EQ with MSO/REW, I should be able to balance, and/or, overpower dips.

I am able to get V1812 x4 and Monolith 15 x4 for the same price so the price doesn't factor into this decision. But, with that said, both are around $5500 out the door so I am open to other options if necessary. Though I will say, I have read about every option possible.




What Matters to Me
  • Smooth Blend with Speakers
  • Powerful and Tight Bass
  • Ability/Overhead to EQ Dips

What Does Not Matter to Me
  • Price Difference Between These Two Models
  • Size and Aesthetics
  • Customer Service, Warranty, Future Problems
  • American Made Vs Something Else
  • How Nice of a Guy Tom from PSA is. I know he is. Doesn't Factor
I appreciate all insight. I would love to hear from people who have heard both or have similar setups and problems. The conflicting thoughts in my head are around the larger cabinet of the Monolith and it's measured ability to play clean, low, and deep versus the PSA ideally being designed to work with my speakers and having more output in the impact (<30hz) range and overpowering my concrete floor problem. And, other things I am probably forgetting to articulate now.

I will attach a mockup (currently with the V1812's) of my floorplan. Thanks again!
While I strongly disagree with you, that Customer Service doesn't matter for you. My choice would be the PSA, since they do have excellent Customer Service. But also the V1812 is a 18" driver sub, much bigger than the Monolith 15" driver. Not much on paper, until needed


Darth
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post #3 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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While I strongly disagree with you, that customer service doesn't matter for you.
Thank you. Let's just pretend all things in the "doesn't matter to me" bucket are equal in this scenario.
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post #4 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 05:01 PM
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How are you getting them for same price? 4x Monolith 15s is $5,150 at Monoprice site and 4x V1812s is $6,100.

I'd go with 4x Monolith 15.
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post #5 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by samorf View Post
Thank you. Let's just pretend all things in the "doesn't matter to me" bucket are equal in this scenario.

Same answer.


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post #6 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spewdom View Post
How are you getting them for same price? 4x Monolith 15s is $5,150 at Monoprice site and 4x V1812s is $6,100.

I'd go with 4x Monolith 15.
Because I am ordering so many speakers from PSA at the same time, he can freight ship them all and save a bit of money. Also, b-stock units. Thanks for your opinion by the way. Why do you learn towards the Monoliths?
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post #7 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Spewdom View Post
How are you getting them for same price? 4x Monolith 15s is $5,150 at Monoprice site and 4x V1812s is $6,100.

I'd go with 4x Monolith 15.

Good catch, all I saw was "Price Difference Between These Two Models", for the factors that did not matter to the OP.


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post #8 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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But also the V1812 is a 18" driver sub, much bigger than the Monolith 15" driver. Not much on paper, until needed
I know. I feel like bigger driver = cut and dry. Easy choice. But the Monolith has a, erhm, Monolithic cabinet and measured high output. So is it cut and dry you think? So torn.
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post #9 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samorf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spewdom View Post
How are you getting them for same price? 4x Monolith 15s is $5,150 at Monoprice site and 4x V1812s is $6,100.

I'd go with 4x Monolith 15.
Because I am ordering so many speakers from PSA at the same time, he can freight ship them all and save a bit of money. Also, b-stock units. Thanks for your opinion by the way. Why do you learn towards the Monoliths?
Because the Monolith should dig deeper at lower frequencies. Not sure about the Monolith 15 being more accurate and having less distortion, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is. I also own a Monolith 15 and it's pretty difficult to make it sound bad and I run it hot.

Now if you do end up needing customer service if you go with the Monolith, you are better off just contacting Hobie Sechrest.
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post #10 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Because the Monolith should dig deeper at lower frequencies. Not sure about the Monolith 15 being more accurate and having less distortion, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is. I also own a Monolith 15 and it's pretty difficult to make it sound bad and I run it hot.
Thank you! I have read a lot of similar testimonies.
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post #11 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 05:15 PM
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FWIW, why not two TV3612 instead of four V1812? Just curious. Edit; I see why you want 4.
IMHO two tv3612 would give you more TR & ULF than the V18. 18hz tune vs 14hz tune.
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post #12 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 05:46 PM
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Monolith 15 or HSU VTF-15H Mk2 is where I'd be looking. Along with the MiniDSP 2x4HD, Umik-1, and REW to get all 4 subs working well together.

Why spend 5 grand on 4 subs that combined (1812's) won't put out same SPL at 16Hz as a single Monolith or VTF?

MiniDSP 2x4HD, UMIK-1, REW... The holy trinity for running multiple subs.
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With 4 subs, you will have more than enough output from either brands in your room. Once you have enough output, the next key is the deep extension which is lacking from the psa. Between your 2 options, Monolith 15 x4 is a better option due to its much lower extension.
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post #14 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
FWIW, why not two TV3612 instead of four V1812? Just curious. Edit; I see why you want 4.
IMHO two tv3612 would give you more TR & ULF than the V18. 18hz tune vs 14hz tune.
+1 to this^^^^

Keep in mind that the 14Hz tune is based on Anechoic testing, so your in-room response should actually be in the single digits (YES! it matters), which will give you some excellent ULF tactile response. Especially if it's a sealed room. Which it looks like it may be. And even if that opening to the right is just a doorway/entry, you're still predominantly enclosed and should yield some pretty decent room gain.

The new line of PSA subs with the B&C Pro drivers are insane. Especially the Low Tuned options, as you're getting the best of both worlds with EXCELLENT ULF AND CHEST POUNDING MID-BASS.

I actually have the TV3612 & TV36 IPALS on my radar for my upgrade. Hell, I might even say "F" it and get the TV42 just to eleminate the dreaded "what ifs?". I mean, it is for my living room and all. Lol


Look forward to seeing what you decide on and your impressions of said decision. Good Luck!

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Hell, I might even say "F" it and get the TV42 just to eleminate the dreaded "what ifs?"
I live my life through you.
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I live my life through you.
LMAO! That actually has to happen first. Luckily I still have plenty of time to ponder, and I'm sure logic will prevail over what other parts of my anatomy are thinking at the moment.
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Why spend 5 grand on 4 subs that combined (1812's) won't put out same SPL at 16Hz as a single Monolith or VTF?
Trolling?
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post #18 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 08:25 PM
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Trolling?
Defensive?

MiniDSP 2x4HD, UMIK-1, REW... The holy trinity for running multiple subs.
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Since you are open to other options:

2xRythmik FV18
3xRythmik FV18
2xRythmik FV25
2xJTR 2400
2xSVS PB16

All the above are approx. the same price except doing 2 FV18 instead of 3. That’ll save you some coin.

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Why spend 5 grand on 4 subs that combined (1812's) won't put out same SPL at 16Hz as a single Monolith or VTF?
Lololololol
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post #21 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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FWIW, why not two TV3612 instead of four V1812? Just curious. Edit; I see why you want 4.
IMHO two tv3612 would give you more TR & ULF than the V18. 18hz tune vs 14hz tune.
Yeah, I am still torn on the x2 and x4 but the more you read the more you learn that not only a square room is bad, but sitting in the middle of the room is the worst. There is some extensive research out there and Toole and this Audioholics article specifically seem to say you can fix most small square room center seating with 4 corner loaded subs. So, that's what I am going to do. All that said, I notice the trend is everyone moving towards 2 large drivers in one cabinet setups and hopefully I am not making a mistake keeping things traditional, haha.

Quote:
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With 4 subs, you will have more than enough output from either brands in your room. Once you have enough output, the next key is the deep extension which is lacking from the psa. Between your 2 options, Monolith 15 x4 is a better option due to its much lower extension.
This is the logic that keeps circling around in my head. I am getting mixed reports which of these 2 subs reach lower. We know from all the extensive reviews that the Monolith goes real low but logic says the 18" should go lower. However, there are some recent posts that show the V1812 dropping off real quick at 20hz which may have just been a design decision. I am not smart enough to know the truth yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post

The new line of PSA subs with the B&C Pro drivers are insane. Especially the Low Tuned options, as you're getting the best of both worlds with EXCELLENT ULF AND CHEST POUNDING MID-BASS.
So, on this. I know the version 12's IPAL and non-IPAL both have new drivers. But, there isn't any fresh reviews or a lot of info that I can find. Is the v1812 a low-tuned option?

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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
2xRythmik FV18
3xRythmik FV18
2xRythmik FV25
2xJTR 2400
2xSVS PB16
Thanks for this list man. I haven't looked into the JTR too much. I have visited the site 1000 times but I never seem to talk away with anything. I will check out the 2400 specifically. I think in my dream world, I get FV18 x4 paper cones while having my loaded corners but that's a lot more coin.

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Originally Posted by Sorny View Post
Monolith 15 or HSU VTF-15H Mk2 is where I'd be looking. Along with the MiniDSP 2x4HD, Umik-1, and REW to get all 4 subs working well together.

Why spend 5 grand on 4 subs that combined (1812's) won't put out the same SPL at 16Hz as a single Monolith or VTF?
I do have the MiniDSP HD, Umik and REW/MSO and am super excited to dial whatever I get in. Usually, I would have to think the 18" drivers would go insanely low but the few measurements I have seem to say the v1812 has different design goals. Similar to PSA speakers. Maybe, that is fantastic though, since I am getting all PSA speakers. I am woozy from all the thoughts and everyone seems to be right down the middle reinforcing both arguments in my head.
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How are you getting them for same price? 4x Monolith 15s is $5,150 at Monoprice site and 4x V1812s is $6,100.

I'd go with 4x Monolith 15.
Agreed. The Mono 15 digs deeper and has a larger enclosure. Should also have less distortion.
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To the OP, have you considered GSG Audio? Definitely worth a look, you'll spend way less and get a ton of performance.

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post #24 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 10:08 PM
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I do have the MiniDSP HD, Umik and REW/MSO and am super excited to dial whatever I get in. Usually, I would have to think the 18" drivers would go insanely low but the few measurements I have seem to say the v1812 has different design goals. Similar to PSA speakers. Maybe, that is fantastic though, since I am getting all PSA speakers. I am woozy from all the thoughts and everyone seems to be right down the middle reinforcing both arguments in my head.
4 subs in your size room will have all the SPL you can handle, and then some, except down low. I think it's folly to buy an 18" sub that's tuned to 19Hz when you aren't constrained by having to only buy 1 sub and need maximum output from said single sub. Anything else that's been suggested will be loafing along in your room, so it's better to go for low tuning.

I'd still plan on 4 subs. Just not 4 V1812s.

In Regards to REW/MSO, and whatnot. It's good you've got that stuff. Trying to integrate multiple subs without it is like herding cats. I'm a big fan of what I like to call the holy trinity (REW, MiniDSP 2x4HD, and Umik-1).
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Agreed. The Mono 15 digs deeper and has a larger enclosure. Should also have less distortion.
Less distortion than the V1812? What driver does Monoprice use?

The V1812 uses this one IIRC

https://www.parts-express.com/bc-18d...-ohm--294-6028
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post #26 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 11:10 PM
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Trolling?
Sorny is referring to this thread

Some eq advice https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/3122980-some-eq-advice.html

OP has 2 x v1812s that drop off a cliff at 23hz, with basically 0 output by 15hz,the owner previously had PB2000s in the same room that had strong output to under 20hz.

I suggested he post his situation up in the PSA thread to get to the bottom of it, as there is clearly a problem in the setup somewhere
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post #27 of 112 Old 02-19-2020, 11:22 PM
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First of all that is an excellent selection of Speakers & Subwoofers to build a system with.
If it was my money i would look at S3612, Rythmik FV18 or JTR Captivator RS1. All of them are very very good quality products. Which one sounds best? Most probably your room is the deciding factor in that than anything else.

Never heard a monoprice sub, so no comment on their performance or sound signature. But if you google you will find a loads of bad customer service situations. Not really surprising since they are relatively new to this reference grade subs/amps/speakers game.

I know you stated in your post you don't care about customer service, but even if I was the Sultan of Brunei i would make sure i'm spending $5000 plus on a product that would be taken care of by it's manufacturer immediately, if a situation rises as such.
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post #28 of 112 Old 02-20-2020, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Sorny View Post
Defensive?
I didn't see the other thread. Now I know why you said what you did. According to PSA published specs the V1512 and V1812 should be +/-3db @ 19hz, so they should still be fairly strong to 16hz. They are set to roll off harder then the previous model. So it appears with the V1812 you are trading 2-3hz extension for less distortion and mid upper bass output. However some of your responses could toned down. To say these subs perform like 8-10" drivers is silly at best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Sorny is referring to this thread

Some eq advice https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/3122980-some-eq-advice.html

OP has 2 x v1812s that drop off a cliff at 23hz, with basically 0 output by 15hz,the owner previously had PB2000s in the same room that had strong output to under 20hz.

I suggested he post his situation up in the PSA thread to get to the bottom of it, as there is clearly a problem in the setup somewhere
I don't think the setup is wrong, the V1812 likely just doesn't have the extension of the PB2000, but I agree it should extend a little lower then what I seen posted. Also there is a good chance that they won't interact with the room the same as the PB2000's. I ran into this with the V1801, I had to place it in a completely different spot then my other subs to get good results. It was strong down to 13hz in my room once I found a good location. I said it before but if you are looking for strong low end, the V1812 wouldn't be the best choice imo. It isn't any stronger then the V15 down low. I agree with some of what has been said in this thread but some of it could be said with a little more tact instead of trashing a brand. Just because it's a 18" sub doesn't automatically mean that the sub will reach 10hz. The sub is ultra compact for a 18" driver and the Neo has less excursion then the previous eminence driver. My guess is the lower distortion and improved SQ that the NEO provides was worth trading off for a couple HZ extension because the V18 was never a low end monster to begin with. If you want low end extension and output with a PSA sub then you need a dual driver model(S3612 or TV3612).
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post #29 of 112 Old 02-20-2020, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by samorf View Post
So, on this. I know the version 12's IPAL and non-IPAL both have new drivers. But, there isn't any fresh reviews or a lot of info that I can find. Is the v1812 a low-tuned option?
if you go over to the PSA thread, you’ll see that everyone that has purchased these are giving them glaring reviews. And not speaking for everyone else, but for me, ”word of mouth” is the best advertising that money can’t buy. Hence them being high on my short list.

As for the V18 being a low tuned option...no. Excellent mid-bass and mid/high teens? Yes. But again, if it were me, I’d go with a couple of the low tuned options to ensure some serious ULF TR, and then you have the bonus of still being able to get outstanding mid-bass to boot.

Granted, this is just my 2 cents, but I do encourage you to do your due diligence to ensure that you’re able to make the best possible decision once it’s all said and done.
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post #30 of 112 Old 02-20-2020, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by samorf View Post
I would have to think the 18" drivers would go insanely low but the few measurements I have seem to say the v1812 has different design goals.
Driver size has nothing to do with how low the sub can play. Box size, port size and port length determine how low a sub can play. There is 12" driver that can play a lot lower than the 18" one.
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