Am I the only one who doesn't give a hoot about Tactile Response? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 79 Old 03-14-2020, 03:39 PM
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Quoting WLC from post #27 , he says "Seems the conversation is similar to whether you are trying to re-create the music venue with a stereo system. I have a very good stereo and have not given any thought whatsoever to whether I am re-creating the live experience. The best I can tell, the instruments and voices sound authentic with a good sense of air and space, but I don't worry beyond that." Well, I do worry beyond that, even though I know I am in the minority.

My music preference is 100% classic orchestral and pipe organ--nothing else. Nearly all is performed in concert halls and churches and many are captured in fine articulate recordings. From the recording's ambiance it is easy to tell it was made in a concert hall or church rather than a studio or other intimate venue. But that alone does not convey the same feeling as listening to live performances. My wife and I hold and have held season-ticket dress-circle seats more than thirty years in the hall where the Oregon Symphony regularly performs and I DO want to make a credible re-creation of concert hall or church ambiance. Furthermore, in the case of large pipe organs I want to experience the tactile power of sub 32Hz notes without employing unsubtle butt-kicker type mechanical transducers.

I have what is basically a stereo system, albeit, a very complex one with lots of digital processing synthesizing six additional channels originating from the standard left/right channels, which I keep as pristine as possible. I know, what I just described is heresy to audio purists but works for me.

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post #32 of 79 Old 03-14-2020, 03:55 PM
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Audio just like almost everything else has a subjective component to it, so yes each to their own. That been said, having a concluded opinion about something any one of us may not yet have experienced seems a bit lost in the objective of a post. I do agree that to much bass does take away from the rest of a system and can be distracting,,,,, especially room rattles!!!!! which is the worst distraction. When i got my first pair of potent 18" subs i had them running very hot as i was still in the awe of their ability. I now now how much that was taking away from all the other channels,, even after another upgrade (and one more on the way) i have blended the bass much more appropriately for my taste and have all channels sounding crisp, detailed and balanced.

I do have a bias that i prefer to have my bass come as naturally as possible from my subs and how they envelope the room around me,,,,,, and that crowsons or a boss may just be to much, or artificial feeling (but until i experience them it is just an unsubstantiated bias). I'm on a floating floor and have so much headroom already to take over the house if i want so i'm getting more than enough for my taste.

For those in a concrete bunker,,,,,(if i was in one) for sure i'd add a boss platform,,,, maybe even crowsons. I agree with many posts above^^ that a well tuned system (including boss/and maybe even the crowsons) will add to the natural weight of a full band track that hopefully is in itself well balanced and not overly bloated.

Once we have actually experienced the very things we comment on,,,,,, bias disappears,,, and a subjective opinion is born. Just my 2cents.
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post #33 of 79 Old 03-14-2020, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
It's also silly to "assume" you wouldn't like something without experiencing it for yourself (a properly set up TR system).
I agree and I'm comfortable stating I feel about it the same as shrimp. What I don't agree with is the attitude if you don't like it it's simply because you haven't experienced it (properly) that some profess. Such that regardless of the set up you have never "felt" a proper setup or you would confess your love.
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post #34 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
I'm mostly with you. Definitely anything rattling in the room drives me bonkers. I do like what is often described as chest thump, the satisfying feel of proper mid-bass where you can feel the pressure wave hit, but I think that's not quite what people refer to when they're talking about TR.
What freg do you call. Mid bass?

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post #35 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 05:25 AM
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Sounds Wonderful

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibia View Post
Quoting WLC from post #27 , he says "Seems the conversation is similar to whether you are trying to re-create the music venue with a stereo system. I have a very good stereo and have not given any thought whatsoever to whether I am re-creating the live experience. The best I can tell, the instruments and voices sound authentic with a good sense of air and space, but I don't worry beyond that." Well, I do worry beyond that, even though I know I am in the minority.

My music preference is 100% classic orchestral and pipe organ--nothing else. Nearly all is performed in concert halls and churches and many are captured in fine articulate recordings. From the recording's ambiance it is easy to tell it was made in a concert hall or church rather than a studio or other intimate venue. But that alone does not convey the same feeling as listening to live performances. My wife and I hold and have held season-ticket dress-circle seats more than thirty years in the hall where the Oregon Symphony regularly performs and I DO want to make a credible re-creation of concert hall or church ambiance. Furthermore, in the case of large pipe organs I want to experience the tactile power of sub 32Hz notes without employing unsubtle butt-kicker type mechanical transducers.

I have what is basically a stereo system, albeit, a very complex one with lots of digital processing synthesizing six additional channels originating from the standard left/right channels, which I keep as pristine as possible. I know, what I just described is heresy to audio purists but works for me.
You're system sounds wonderful. I also have violated audio purist traditions by including 2 subs with my stereo system. My post, and its attempt to validate the purpose of this thread , represents my belief that this alternative point of view is too rarely shared.
I am happy that you and your wife are so pleased with your system. I do not harbor any fantasy that if you heard mine, you would prefer it. My only disagreement with some posters is when they assume that if I heard theirs, I would prefer it. If I wanted a system like theirs, I would have it. I just don't want it.
For myself, none of this matters. I rarely discuss, much less show, even with long-time friends, our home theater. Only for the few friends who share my love of this hobby, do I ever turn it on. In those instances, the consistent reaction is that the friend needs to re-adjust their bass. The reaction of a few people does not prove anything. However, my data suggests that I could argue that if posters heard a well set-up system with limited TR, they would then prefer such an arrangement. I would never think nor express such an opinion. We all have trouble understanding why, if we love cherry pie, not everyone does. We just shouldn't assume that if someone prefers apple pie they just have never experienced really good cherry pie. I am only interested in newbies considering all the possibilities.
P.S. My many friends are important to me. It is just that even the few who have home theaters do not love them the with the same intensity my wife and I do. The forum provides a wonderful opportunity to feel a part of a community with a shared enthusiasm. I must admit, with reference to the above pie analogy, that I have never understood why anyone who can afford a home theater does not have one. I am only sharing this opinion here and never with my friends.
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post #36 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by WLC View Post
You're system sounds wonderful. I also have violated audio purist traditions by including 2 subs with my stereo system. My post, and its attempt to validate the purpose of this thread , represents my belief that this alternative point of view is too rarely shared.

I am happy that you and your wife are so pleased with your system. I do not harbor any fantasy that if you heard mine, you would prefer it. My only disagreement with some posters is when they assume that if I heard theirs, I would prefer it. If I wanted a system like theirs, I would have it. I just don't want it.

For myself, none of this matters. I rarely discuss, much less show, even with long-time friends, our home theater. Only for the few friends who share my love of this hobby, do I ever turn it on. In those instances, the consistent reaction is that the friend needs to re-adjust their bass. The reaction of a few people does not prove anything. However, my data suggests that I could argue that if posters heard a well set-up system with limited TR, they would then prefer such an arrangement. I would never think nor express such an opinion. We all have trouble understanding why, if we love cherry pie, not everyone does. We just shouldn't assume that if someone prefers apple pie they just have never experienced really good cherry pie. I am only interested in newbies considering all the possibilities.

P.S. My many friends are important to me. It is just that even the few who have home theaters do not love them the with the same intensity my wife and I do. The forum provides a wonderful opportunity to feel a part of a community with a shared enthusiasm. I must admit, with reference to the above pie analogy, that I have never understood why anyone who can afford a home theater does not have one. I am only sharing this opinion here and never with my friends.
Very well put I was one of the posters saying if you heard a proper setup you would change your mindbut your right everyone has different preferences on what sounds good to them
I was in the wrong for assuming the OP hadn't heard a proper setup before. I've heard many setups that arent close to the levels of bass I have but still sound fantastic.

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post #37 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
What freg do you call. Mid bass?

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post #38 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I enjoy reading the sub forum (for some unknown reason) and I even have dual subs. Mainly to reduce the directionality I "felt" even though the second helps to smooth out the frequency response. However I can't wrap my head around why someone would want Tactile Response from their speakers. I'm not saying its wrong... more power to you if it's your thing.

For me it would only cause distraction from the (audio/video) experience by constantly drawing attention to itself. Much like if someone is punched (on screen) I just as soon not have someone punch me. Now if for some reason I would want to embrace the experience I'm guessing Buttkickers (or some such) would do a much better job not to mention be a lot cheaper in most cases.

From reading here I guess I'm the only one... oh and I feel the same about having the bass destroying my house. If its causing everything to vibrate to no end I'm pretty sure it's not blending into the rest of the audio and it's interrupting the experience not enhancing it. Am I the only one?
I have ULF and I love it but I totally get where you're coming from. Especially depending on the mix. Some stuff really exercises the LFE and it can "trigger" at inappropriate times. It's a mixed bag and harder to 'control'. I like it more than I don't.
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post #39 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 09:11 AM
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I have experienced many kinds of different TR and I've liked and disliked some of them.
For movies and gaming I love my TR BOSS setup, which shakes my couch with frequencies below 20Hz. I dislike it when it's excessive thou, so somebody talking should not move my seating.

For music I absolutely hate it. I dislike even having TR from my subwoofer while listening to music, because the TR is not equal to the frequency response.
I have mixed a large live Rock show last year where my mixing desk was placed on a wooden riser about 100ft from the stage. I absolutely enjoyed every bit of TR the wooden structure under my feet provided. On the other hand, I noticed that due to the increased TR, I didn't have the same experience at the FOH as the audience later would, so I had to get off the riser whenever I was working on anything below 200Hz during soundcheck.
TR isn't for everyone? I dunno. I love sub 25Hz TR during movies. I dislike TR above 30Hz during movies. I dislike any TR from music. I like TR from 100db+ music.
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post #40 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 09:25 AM
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I can have both subs off and the Mrs. wouldn’t care less. However, if the bass shakers are not on then she immediately stops and says, “The chairs are not on”. My wife is NOT into the full audio experience but she loves the TR that the bass shakers give connected to the seats.

It really adds another dimension! However, I can’t see how one would like to have their guts shaken out by sitting on 50/11 subs vibrating the walls, windows and rupturing your spleen.
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post #41 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Being on a suspended floor with alot if sub firepower I get a ton of tactile response and it adds so much to the experience I haven't had one person say they disliked it at any of the g2gs I've hosted. It really makes you feel as if your in the movie. Also if everything is set up right everything will blend well together. If you get to experience a properly setup room you definitely will understand why everyone likes it so much.

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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
If you think I don't know what I'm missing so be it. I do... which is why I posted... wondering how many felt the same. And to a lessor degree a little Yin to all the Yang.
Haven't read the whole thread yet but I can share my experience. There are two ways to get tactile. 1 is lots of fire power like @hd0823 case and another way is to add devices (BOSS, transducers...)or a very near field sub. When you get tactile using option 1 (pure fire power), its very very satisfying because that won't make Tactile overcome the sound because it would take a lot of bass to introduce that tactile (on suspended floor obviously). Now 2nd option is great as well but its very easy to get carried with it and crank it up to the point that it will shake so much that it will suppress all other effects out. Key is to find the right mix. I used to run my subs 16dB hot while they were placed only 65" away from MLP and it used to bring tons of TR but never felt that the TR is getting in the way how Bass is supposed to sound. The issue was WAF. House shakes, frames fall of the walls, door rattles but mannnnn was it awesome. Now, I use BOSS but just to get the wobbling feelings in low bass frequencies. I have them crossed over over at 20Hz so you can imagine. They are purely to get TR at 20Hz and below it. Above 20Hz, my subs do very decent job.

Point is that TR does amazing job but you have to put time into it and dial it to your liking. Some love it so much that they have 2-3-4 subs NF all around them and also transducers and also BOSS and they love it ( @SBuger comes to mind) but he spent a lot of time dialing them to his liking.

I don't think TR is bad or takes the experience away even in music. Key is to dial it in properly to our liking. If you are too sensitive to TR and what your subs produce naturally right now is enough for you then don't bother but if you have no TR in the system right now, I'd suggest to put some effort in it as it might be the game changer.
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post #42 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
I can have both subs off and the Mrs. wouldn’t care less. However, if the bass shakers are not on then she immediately stops and says, “The chairs are not on”. My wife is NOT into the full audio experience but she loves the TR that the bass shakers give connected to the seats.
Haha, maybe women are more biologically predisposed to TR than men.


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Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
It really adds another dimension! However, I can’t see how one would like to have their guts shaken out by sitting on 50/11 subs vibrating the walls, windows and rupturing your spleen.
To me, that's one of the biggest advantages of Near Field/Very Near Field subs and/or BOSS platforms - you can get very satisfying amounts of TR without resorting to the huge SPL levels throughout the room/house/neighborhood.
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post #43 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 10:39 AM
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For me it’s about balance as many have stated. I don’t wanna get knocked off my couch when someone shuts a car door on screen and my BOSS goes crazy, and conversely if a skyscraper goes down I’d like to transfer some of that into my room. I’m on concrete so it makes TR more difficult even though I’m pretty flat to 14hz. To what Brian Ding said,(kinda) I personally like when my couch shakes from my subwoofers only, and I’ve never sat on MA’s that felt natural. I did install a JBL PB12 driver on a baffle in my couch and replaced the feet with ISO’s on furniture pucks for a quasi BOSS for the super low stuff. It’s pretty natural actually and makes a smooth progression as the subs roll off. So yeah, I don’t wanna be assaulted all the time, but when it IS time, let’s go! I think the lack of TR in certain scenes is more a distraction than TR in general. Like I’m always waiting for the hit.
Sorry OP, I think you’re missing out.
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post #44 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 10:56 AM
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For me it’s about balance as many have stated. I don’t wanna get knocked off my couch when someone shuts a car door on screen and my BOSS goes crazy, and conversely if a skyscraper goes down I’d like to transfer some of that into my room. I’m on concrete so it makes TR more difficult even though I’m pretty flat to 14hz. To what Brian Ding said,(kinda) I personally like when my couch shakes from my subwoofers only, and I’ve never sat on MA’s that felt natural. I did install a JBL PB12 driver on a baffle in my couch and replaced the feet with ISO’s on furniture pucks for a quasi BOSS for the super low stuff. It’s pretty natural actually and makes a smooth progression as the subs roll off. So yeah, I don’t wanna be assaulted all the time, but when it IS time, let’s go! I think the lack of TR in certain scenes is more a distraction than TR in general. Like I’m always waiting for the hit.
Sorry OP, I think you’re missing out.
To accentuate exactly what you just described, you should consider adding the HoverBOSS method to your couch (see item 9 in this post) and BEQ that restores the bottom octaves for 100s of the most popular movies that studios have removed for some reason.
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To accentuate exactly what you just described, you should consider adding the HoverBOSS method to your couch (see item 9 in this post) and BEQ that restores the bottom octaves for 100s of the most popular movies that studios have removed for some reason.


Appreciate that! I’ve been interested in BEQ for awhile. It’s really compelling.
All four outputs are used on my minidsp. I need to read the thread starter so I know how to BEQ without interfering with my existing filters. Hover BOSS looks awesome too. Trying to convince my wife and her short-ish legs to accept a riser lol.
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post #46 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 11:23 AM
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Appreciate that! I’ve been interested in BEQ for awhile. It’s really compelling.
All four outputs are used on my minidsp. I need to read the thread starter so I know how to BEQ without interfering with my existing filters. Hover BOSS looks awesome too. Trying to convince my wife and her short-ish legs to accept a riser lol.
It's not a problem in your case - you're more than half way there with the mDSP already. The BEQ curves are applied to the input side of your mDSP (hopefully just one mDSP input) which then affects all of your mDSP outputs the same. The custom EQ for each of your subs and TR devices is then applied to the output side of the mDSP.

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post #47 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 11:30 AM
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It's not a problem in your case - you're more than half way there with the mDSP already. The BEQ curves are applied to the input side of your mDSP (hopefully just one mDSP input) which then affects all of your mDSP outputs the same. The custom EQ for each of your subs and TR devices is then applied to the output side of the mDSP.


Thanks again, I should probably go to the BEQ thread as not to derail this one?
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post #48 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Haven't read the whole thread yet but I can share my experience. There are two ways to get tactile. 1 is lots of fire power like @hd0823 case and another way is to add devices (BOSS, transducers...)or a very near field sub. When you get tactile using option 1 (pure fire power), its very very satisfying because that won't make Tactile overcome the sound because it would take a lot of bass to introduce that tactile (on suspended floor obviously). Now 2nd option is great as well but its very easy to get carried with it and crank it up to the point that it will shake so much that it will suppress all other effects out. Key is to find the right mix. I used to run my subs 16dB hot while they were placed only 65" away from MLP and it used to bring tons of TR but never felt that the TR is getting in the way how Bass is supposed to sound. The issue was WAF. House shakes, frames fall of the walls, door rattles but mannnnn was it awesome. Now, I use BOSS but just to get the wobbling feelings in low bass frequencies. I have them crossed over over at 20Hz so you can imagine. They are purely to get TR at 20Hz and below it. Above 20Hz, my subs do very decent job.

Point is that TR does amazing job but you have to put time into it and dial it to your liking. Some love it so much that they have 2-3-4 subs NF all around them and also transducers and also BOSS and they love it ( @SBuger comes to mind) but he spent a lot of time dialing them to his liking.

I don't think TR is bad or takes the experience away even in music. Key is to dial it in properly to our liking. If you are too sensitive to TR and what your subs produce naturally right now is enough for you then don't bother but if you have no TR in the system right now, I'd suggest to put some effort in it as it might be the game changer.
Yes, I do like a bit of TR

There are a handful of us over in the TR thread that have systems that probably seem so ridiculously overboard for TR that most enthusiasts on AVS just shake their heads at when they see it and wonder WHAT!!!??? …how could anyone ever enjoy that much TR!!! LOL

I think TR is very subjective (kind of like art and maybe the kind of movies or music one likes and enjoys, etc). How much intensity, at what frequencies, and so on. I think we all experience things a little differntly as well (we’ve had some pretty good discussions on this not too long ago around here). Sure, we all have similarities in the way we can experience things a lot of times, but differences for sure, and may be do to any number of variables, not to mention just personal preference.

I think we all have our goals and know what we like and want for the most part form the experience (although sometimes we don’t actually know until we experience them). That’s one of the many great things about this forum IMO, you can go read up on just about any part of HT and music with the different methods and gear, etc and try any of it in your own systems to see if it’s for you or not. Now, sometimes getting it all set up well and integrated in tip top form is a different story, but here again, this place is awesome for that as well, as many of us have been down that road with some part of it and usually happy to offer setup advise or whatever.

So back to TR and giving a hoot about it LOL. Oh gosh yes, I think it’s more than safe to say YES for me Hahahahaha. But again, this just goes back to knowing what you enjoy and want out of the HT (or music) experience. I’ve known for a long time what I like and want more of ever since I got a taste of it about 5 years ago when I first discovered subs placed very close behind me (VNF), along with other subs in the mix Fairfield as well for more of that bass envelopment, fullness, weight and all that. Then the discovery of Crowson MA’s, then BK LFEs, then of course most recently BOSS and HoverBOSS, as well BossBACKs ….you name it. I DO LOVE’M ALL for movie bass, for different reasons!!! LOL. That sure doesn’t mean everyone else will though and I totally get that. To each their own for sure. Even if setup “very well”, some still may not enjoy it and just not their cup of tea.

For me, this is what I personally want out of the TR and overall HT experience. I’m really into movies and HT and the TR part of it is at the very HEART of it all. Yes, I want great sounding and enveloping full bass to go with it to feel as one together, as well as great enveloping surround sound too that integrates as seamlessly as possible with the video, making up the whole experience. If any one of those things (and yes especially the TR) ever becomes distracting and takes you out of the moment in a movie (or even music), then it’s not good. If one is really into TR and likes a lot of it, this can be one of the toughest parts to get right IMO. Getting the levels set right in the mix for your liking and integrated seamlessly so that it’s just part of the system that seems super realistic with whatever is going on on screen.

That is one of my goals and desires with the TR in my system, is for it to bring a super realistic experience and only add, not distract. And yes a lot of times that means scaring the crap out of me with insane TR and slam when called for. And what I mean by this, is not just the shake of your seat and even room, but the feeling that the right kind of TR can create within your body. To me, this is what I love and is just so thrilling, allowing me to feel like I’m actually experiencing it for real (or as real as you can get anyway in a HT environment). And being able to produce full band capable TR across the board from mid bass (50-80hz or so anyway, higher to 250 or so too, but usually between 50-90 is the meat part of it for chest slam (for me anyway), all the way down deep into the ULF single digit frequencies with authority is what it takes. It does take quite a bit of TR capably to do this, but is pretty easily attainable these days with HoverBOSS or Crowson MA’s. Plus BEQ (I’m not trying to open a can of worms here for some of the BEQ haters) for all these movies that has just been a game changer, making most all movie full band like the Incredible Hulk, if one is into that and like full band bass.

So, what I’m getting at here and were I was gong with that last paragraph is the experience that I’m after. Take the movie “FURY” for example. After I demo that tank battle scene, I feel like I actually experienced being in that tank and in the middle of it all (hopefully this is the closest I’ll ever get to actually having to go through that in real life though). The recoil of those tank blasts are insane!! The 50 cals, rifles and all gunshots, tank engines hums and vibrations plus all the sounds coming from everywhere in a super realistic and enveloping way jus feels absolutely amazing. Yes, it’s pretty frightening too and shakes, jolts and hammerers my insides pretty hardcore. But to me, to feel the most realistic as possible, this is what it takes. I want to FEEL it to my core in every possible way. This makes it super realistic. Without this TR power in the mix to deliver this (again, to me), it’s just lackluster and not NEARLY as exciting. I don’t want it to just be enjoyable and a pretty good experience, I want it to be an EXPERIENCE I never forget LOL. BUT, that’s just me and what I want, and having a ridiculous TR system alllows me to get that. But again, I know that is not for everyone.

Also, my ears don’t do well with real hi SPL levels, and potent TR makes it feel like I’m getting all the high SPL bass slam that I crave at pretty moderate levels. I never really go over about -15mv, and a lot of times, especially at night, -20mv and am still getting everything I desire. For me, TR is a GOD SEND and there are so many ways to get it and implement it into ones system these days if you’re into that. If not, then that’s cool too . I can appreciate that if TR is not somebody’s thing.

I’ve tried just about everything there is to try with TR over the last 5 years or so and have found what I love and just thrills me to death for movie content. It’s been a journey and a lot of work sometimes, but super fun too and is what I love.

So, just another view, albeit from a TR lover . Hopefully that gives a bit of insight from someone who is a big fan of TR

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1400cuft Sealed Room | SY Triple Black Velvet Blackout | GIK Treatments | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.1.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | Epson 5040UB | 120" 16:9 AT Screen | Oppo203 | XB1X | ATV4K | 3x 18" Subs | MegaHoverBOSS w/6x JBL12s HB + 3x 18s CLHB | MegaBossBack w/3x JBL12s BB + 3x BK LFEs MBK | 4x BK LFEs CLBK | 6x Crowson MAs | MiniDSP 10x10HD

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post #49 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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There are a handful of us over in the TR thread that have systems that probably seem so ridiculously overboard for TR that most enthusiasts on AVS just shake their heads at when they see it and wonder WHAT!!!??? …how could anyone ever enjoy that much TR!!!
I think we all have interests/hobbies/whatnot and can easily relate to the passion people share for such. I happen to enjoy throwing PCs together which makes virtually no sense (at all - at least less than TR ) and in most cases I couldn't give them away to the typical person. So I don't doubt the passion some have for TR just in my case it doesn't enhance the experience rather lessens.
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post #50 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 05:05 PM
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It's silly to suggest someone doesn't appreciate something solely on the basis they haven't experienced it at its finest. I have had shrimp at its finest (restaurant and the shrimp itself) and I hate it.
I don't think it is.


You said this:
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For me it would only cause distraction from the (audio/video) experience by constantly drawing attention to itself. Much like if someone is punched (on screen) I just as soon not have someone punch me. Now if for some reason I would want to embrace the experience I'm guessing Buttkickers (or some such) would do a much better job not to mention be a lot cheaper in most cases.
That indicates that you probably have not experienced a properly tuned tactile system. Sound waves vibrate things. Even my 15" subs in front of my room will vibrate your chairs. It's just how sound works. If you have no tactile response, then you have a very deficient system. I agree that buttkickers are very distracting and don't like them. I've never experienced a buttkicker based system where I wasn't able to point out that buttkickers were present. Shaking your chair, moving you around on explosions, punching you etc these aren't necessarily the goals of a good tactile system.

A properly tuned tactile system can be very mild and very natural - just the way that subwoofers should be.
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post #51 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 06:14 PM
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I think we all have interests/hobbies/whatnot and can easily relate to the passion people share for such. I happen to enjoy throwing PCs together which makes virtually no sense (at all - at least less than TR ) and in most cases I couldn't give them away to the typical person. So I don't doubt the passion some have for TR just in my case it doesn't enhance the experience rather lessens.
WOWZERS …those PC’s!!! AWESOME!! Yeah, that could be considered pretty darn extreme too But hey, more power to ya!!

I can appreciate that!! I think most of us have things that we absolutely love and just ignites our passion for it all. If you can find what that is, I say embrace it and enjoy it to the fullest, no matter what anyone says or thinks about it if it brings joy to your life.

That’s one of the most exciting parts of life IMO, is finding those things we truly love and being thankful for it. Whether that be Spouse, Family, Art, Home Theater, Music, Fine Dining, Boats, Motorcycles, Tactile Response!!! LOL, All of the above, or whatever floats your boat. It’s what makes life fun, exciting, and worth living!!! Plus, helps get you through the harder times. I consider anyone that can find that kind of joy and passion for something or many things truly lucky, even if someone else may think it’s crazy or overboard!!

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post #52 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 06:51 PM
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That indicates that you probably have not experienced a properly tuned tactile system. Sound waves vibrate things. Even my 15" subs in front of my room will vibrate your chairs. It's just how sound works. If you have no tactile response, then you have a very deficient system. I agree that buttkickers are very distracting and don't like them. I've never experienced a buttkicker based system where I wasn't able to point out that buttkickers were present. Shaking your chair, moving you around on explosions, punching you etc these aren't necessarily the goals of a good tactile system.

A properly tuned tactile system can be very mild and very natural - just the way that subwoofers should be
.
Like I was trying to say in my big post above, goals can be very different for different folks. Who’s to say what the goal of a “good tactile system" is. That could be different for each of us. I think we all do agree though that we want it feeling as natural as possible while still delivering the good that we desire, whether someone wants mild to extreme TR will probably vary (maybe even drastically) from individual to individual. That's what is so AWESOME about being able to put together your own systems at home!!! . Whether we like Buttkickers or not, Crowson MA's or not, a BossBack, a HoverBOSS or not, Sealed, ported or horned subs, a giant 120"-170" projector screen or a 60" OLED, A blacked out room, etc, etc ....

That's one of the beauties of it IMHO
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post #53 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 07:26 PM
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Hi all,

Here's my personal impressions in my room, 12ft W x 18ft L x 8ft T. A total of 1728^3 ft, with two Rythmik FV18. With the options of 12, 14 and 18Hz and many other settings for personal tweaks. And also important to mention, this is in my room since no two room give the same results. And also two Butt Kickers (TT) for the two main seats, that can be adjusted for more or less bass sensation in your seat.

I settle on, two different settings. Using a single band PEQ, to increase the mid bass using a +3dB boost. Since it is my preference, for bass sound wise.
One of them was the 14Hz, and the other was 18Hz.

After doing a calibration, using Audyssey XT32. And doing my tweaks for the mid bass. I start listening to a wide variety of movies, before doing my last decision since many movies are not recorded the same.

There was a few movies, where the 14Hz setting. Sounded better, for adding a new foundation in the deep bass that is hard to explain. That said there was a lot more, where the 14Hz setting was way too much. And after trying back and forth between the 14Hz and 18Hz setting, not only I did prefer the 18Hz setting. Also my Wife did commented, it sounded better to Her.

My only conclusion is maybe the room you are in, have a lot to do with-it. And to less extend your preference, for your sound Bias. Since I personally found those movies too heavy in the very low frequencies, I was getting overwhelm and no longer hearing my beloved midbass for the chest punch.


Darth
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post #54 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 07:31 PM
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I don’t want it to just be enjoyable and a pretty good experience, I want it to be an EXPERIENCE I never forget LOL.
I’ve tried just about everything there is to try with TR over the last 5 years or so and have found what I love and just thrills me to death for movie content. It’s been a journey and a lot of work sometimes, but super fun too and is what I love.

So, just another view, albeit from a TR lover . Hopefully that gives a bit of insight from someone who is a big fan of TR
Thx my good friend for sharing your opinion. I have always enjoyed reading your posts and the details you go into to explain it all. Much appreciated.
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post #55 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 08:00 PM
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100Hz - 250Hz.
Sorry, not in my book

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What freg do you call. Mid bass?

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Mid bass is around 45 to 75Hz, where you feel it your chest.


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post #56 of 79 Old 03-15-2020, 08:59 PM
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Thx my good friend for sharing your opinion. I have always enjoyed reading your posts and the details you go into to explain it all. Much appreciated.
Thanks for the good words brother and for the shoutout that got me in here to post something!! I know I am at the extreme end for sure with all this TR stuff, so was kind of hesitant when this thread first got going to share any of my opinions and experiences with it all, as you know I can get pretty excited and descriptive when it comes to this stuff

That said, I think we are always going to have extremes at both ends (with anything Home Threater, not just TR), and folks who fall in the middle and everywhere in between, which is pretty much how it’s always going to be. We are all different, although some way more alike than others LOL.

But that is part of what makes all this interesting right!!?? What fun would that be if we all were exactly alike and loved the same exact things
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1400cuft Sealed Room | SY Triple Black Velvet Blackout | GIK Treatments | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.1.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | Epson 5040UB | 120" 16:9 AT Screen | Oppo203 | XB1X | ATV4K | 3x 18" Subs | MegaHoverBOSS w/6x JBL12s HB + 3x 18s CLHB | MegaBossBack w/3x JBL12s BB + 3x BK LFEs MBK | 4x BK LFEs CLBK | 6x Crowson MAs | MiniDSP 10x10HD
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post #57 of 79 Old 03-16-2020, 10:40 AM
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Thanks for the good words brother and for the shoutout that got me in here to post something!! I know I am at the extreme end for sure with all this TR stuff, so was kind of hesitant when this thread first got going to share any of my opinions and experiences with it all, as you know I can get pretty excited and descriptive when it comes to this stuff

That said, I think we are always going to have extremes at both ends (with anything Home Threater, not just TR), and folks who fall in the middle and everywhere in between, which is pretty much how it’s always going to be. We are all different, although some way more alike than others LOL.

But that is part of what makes all this interesting right!!?? What fun would that be if we all were exactly alike and loved the same exact things
Agreed . I have been playing around with my new 2 Devastators and also Mini Marty and also BOSS and also JBL 4722N. I use Dirac with Bass Management which gives a lot of flexibility. Recently I found out that if I use only my devastators (65" away from MLP) and ignore Mini Marty with subs crossed over at 80 and speakers at 60, they end up sounding very very nice. Watching Altered Carbon series on Netflix and the bass is very satisfying in it. Using 10dB Bass with house curve. With Mini Marty in the mix, it adds a lot more low end but then bass is distributed b/w Mini Marty and Devs which takes the TR away a bit from Devs. Plus I like how Devs with Pro drivers sound. They have more clarity to it. Having cross over as 60 for Speakers and 80 for subs gives me very good FR without any cross over issues and here is a kicker. These JBL 4722 have very nice MidBass. Each speaker has 2 15" drivers. They extend to 50Hz in my room so my room isn't helping it much but still they do a great job up to 60Hz. Maximizing it using 60Hz HPF works very well.

Seeeee, we aren't normal by any means but then who is on AVS . If you are here on this forum and not like us then its just a matter of time . Trust me.
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post #58 of 79 Old 03-16-2020, 10:54 AM
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Thanks for the good words brother and for the shoutout that got me in here to post something!! I know I am at the extreme end for sure with all this TR stuff, so was kind of hesitant when this thread first got going to share any of my opinions and experiences with it all, as you know I can get pretty excited and descriptive when it comes to this stuff

That said, I think we are always going to have extremes at both ends (with anything Home Threater, not just TR), and folks who fall in the middle and everywhere in between, which is pretty much how it’s always going to be. We are all different, although some way more alike than others LOL.

But that is part of what makes all this interesting right!!?? What fun would that be if we all were exactly alike and loved the same exact things
I'm willing to bet you give a hoot the most.
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I happen to enjoy throwing PCs together .......

Nice builds.
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post #60 of 79 Old 03-16-2020, 02:20 PM
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For me tactile response has to be done more natural to like it. I have the big butt kickers and to me they are artificial compared to a good ported sub. Example would be a thunder cloud, the sensation is just natural with the sub, more subdued but smooth and balanced with the sound track. Butt kickers are more abrupt and not natural in comparison.

So it really comes down to preference and how much "tactile" you want, it might just be a limited amount that you need to make it better.
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