Am I the only one who doesn't give a hoot about Tactile Response? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Am I the only one who doesn't give a hoot about Tactile Response?

I enjoy reading the sub forum (for some unknown reason) and I even have dual subs. Mainly to reduce the directionality I "felt" even though the second helps to smooth out the frequency response. However I can't wrap my head around why someone would want Tactile Response from their speakers. I'm not saying its wrong... more power to you if it's your thing.

For me it would only cause distraction from the (audio/video) experience by constantly drawing attention to itself. Much like if someone is punched (on screen) I just as soon not have someone punch me. Now if for some reason I would want to embrace the experience I'm guessing Buttkickers (or some such) would do a much better job not to mention be a lot cheaper in most cases.

From reading here I guess I'm the only one... oh and I feel the same about having the bass destroying my house. If its causing everything to vibrate to no end I'm pretty sure it's not blending into the rest of the audio and it's interrupting the experience not enhancing it. Am I the only one?

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post #2 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 01:21 PM
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Does actual thunder give you a tactile response? How about an earthquake or a freight train passing by? Gunshots?

I understand that TR isn't for everybody...and you are definitely not alone...but personally, I want to reproduce what I am seeing on-screen as accurately as possible and that includes the "feel".
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post #3 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 01:25 PM
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It seems you have never experienced it properly and have made your own assumption of what it must be like. Let me be the first to tell you, you are wrong.
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post #4 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I enjoy reading the sub forum (for some unknown reason) and I even have dual subs. Mainly to reduce the directionality I "felt" even though the second helps to smooth out the frequency response. However I can't wrap my head around why someone would want Tactile Response from their speakers. I'm not saying its wrong... more power to you if it's your thing.

For me it would only cause distraction from the (audio/video) experience by constantly drawing attention to itself. Much like if someone is punched (on screen) I just as soon not have someone punch me. Now if for some reason I would want to embrace the experience I'm guessing Buttkickers (or some such) would do a much better job not to mention be a lot cheaper in most cases.

From reading here I guess I'm the only one... oh and I feel the same about having the bass destroying my house. If its causing everything to vibrate to no end I'm pretty sure it's not blending into the rest of the audio and it's interrupting the experience not enhancing it. Am I the only one?
Our local theater is experimenting with a couple of rows of seats with all sorts of vibrating gizmos attached to them, so I thought what the hell, I'll give it a go............... My wife lasted 7 minutes, and I lasted 15.

Most distracting movie experience since cell phones were invented.
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post #5 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 01:29 PM
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tactile bass is awesome.
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post #6 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 01:30 PM
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"Am I the only one who doesn't give a hoot about Tactile Response?"

Nope.
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post #7 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I enjoy reading the sub forum (for some unknown reason) and I even have dual subs. Mainly to reduce the directionality I "felt" even though the second helps to smooth out the frequency response. However I can't wrap my head around why someone would want Tactile Response from their speakers. I'm not saying its wrong... more power to you if it's your thing.

For me it would only cause distraction from the (audio/video) experience by constantly drawing attention to itself. Much like if someone is punched (on screen) I just as soon not have someone punch me. Now if for some reason I would want to embrace the experience I'm guessing Buttkickers (or some such) would do a much better job not to mention be a lot cheaper in most cases.

From reading here I guess I'm the only one... oh and I feel the same about having the bass destroying my house. If its causing everything to vibrate to no end I'm pretty sure it's not blending into the rest of the audio and it's interrupting the experience not enhancing it. Am I the only one?
I'm mostly with you. Definitely anything rattling in the room drives me bonkers. I do like what is often described as chest thump, the satisfying feel of proper mid-bass where you can feel the pressure wave hit, but I think that's not quite what people refer to when they're talking about TR.
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post #8 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Does actual thunder give you a tactile response? How about an earthquake or a freight train passing by? Gunshots?
Some of those do... and are actual experiences.

Quote:
I want to reproduce what I am seeing on-screen as accurately as possible and that includes the "feel".
Rather I want the most immersion I can achieve and having a speaker "blow" on me certainly doesn't add to that... only detracts.

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post #9 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
Some of those do... and are actual experiences.

Rather I want the most immersion I can achieve and having a speaker "blow" on me certainly doesn't add to that... only detracts.
Being on a suspended floor with alot if sub firepower I get a ton of tactile response and it adds so much to the experience I haven't had one person say they disliked it at any of the g2gs I've hosted. It really makes you feel as if your in the movie. Also if everything is set up right everything will blend well together. If you get to experience a properly setup room you definitely will understand why everyone likes it so much.

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post #10 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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If you think I don't know what I'm missing so be it. I do... which is why I posted... wondering how many felt the same. And to a lessor degree a little Yin to all the Yang.

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post #11 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 02:13 PM
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I will not put up with rattles or vibration induced noises from my stereo. but that doesnt mean I cant have 120+ db peaks...and with that, I wont even bother owning speakers that cant produce a full sound. just something about a music system you can feel. most speakers cant do it for me.
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post #12 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
Some of those do... and are actual experiences.

Rather I want the most immersion I can achieve and having a speaker "blow" on me certainly doesn't add to that... only detracts.
Wait...are you thinking port wind = tactile response? That is NOT tactile response....not to me, at least. TR to me is the shaking (of the floor/seating) you get from <30Hz frequencies, the sudden impact/chest-punch you get from effects like gunshots (mid-bass), or (in extreme cases) the hair moving/pants flapping you can get from the ULF.

Maybe we're not talking about the same thing here....
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post #13 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
I'm mostly with you. Definitely anything rattling in the room drives me bonkers. I do like what is often described as chest thump, the satisfying feel of proper mid-bass where you can feel the pressure wave hit, but I think that's not quite what people refer to when they're talking about TR.
Easily remedied.


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post #14 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I enjoy reading the sub forum (for some unknown reason) and I even have dual subs. Mainly to reduce the directionality I "felt" even though the second helps to smooth out the frequency response. However I can't wrap my head around why someone would want Tactile Response from their speakers. I'm not saying its wrong... more power to you if it's your thing.

For me it would only cause distraction from the (audio/video) experience by constantly drawing attention to itself. Much like if someone is punched (on screen) I just as soon not have someone punch me. Now if for some reason I would want to embrace the experience I'm guessing Buttkickers (or some such) would do a much better job not to mention be a lot cheaper in most cases.

From reading here I guess I'm the only one... oh and I feel the same about having the bass destroying my house. If its causing everything to vibrate to no end I'm pretty sure it's not blending into the rest of the audio and it's interrupting the experience not enhancing it. Am I the only one?


Good thing you didn't post this in the DIY Speaker and Subwoofer forum

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post #15 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 02:44 PM
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I definitely think that some people are with you! We don't all like the same tastes, or scents, or sights, or sounds, or sensations. I don't see why mid and low-frequency tactile sensations should be any different. But, I agree with Alan that port wind from a ported subwoofer and low-bass TR are different things. (The ports of a ported subwoofer can produce more low-bass TR, within an octave of its port tune, than a comparable sealed sub can. But, TR and palpable port wind, from a ported subwoofer, are still two different things.)

Tactile sensations, and especially ULF TR are created by particle velocity--literally air particles moving, where SPL is created by sound waves moving through the air. In nature, both of those things are happening naturally. In the presentation of recordings, in our HT's, we can choose the extent to which we wish to enjoy both SPL and TR. And, I think it is inevitable that our perceptions of, and our preferences for, TR will vary widely.

Brian Ding of Rythmik Audio, made an interesting observation about our perceptions of energy moving through the air, as it does in a thunderstorm or with a gunshot, in the examples that Alan posted. In his original post, Brian was pointing-out the difference between having your chair shake from a tactile transducer, and feeling tactile energy directly from a subwoofer. Here is what he said:

"Let me try here because we all experience something similar, just not as big as those in the movies which is created by CG (computer-generated special effects). We all play baseball and have experience of being almost hit by a ball without seeing the ball. How do you know a ball is there? It is the air disturbance (or sound, subsonic mostly, barely audible) caused by ball traveling at high speed. Any air disturbance will travel.... That is just the nature. With that in mind, when you are next a large object falls and lands next to you, your floor has much faster propagation speed than sound. So you feel vibration on your feet first, then you feel the air coming at you as "air blow" or as subsonic sound energy. Sound always arrives later. The difference of the two tells you how far away the impact point is from you, more or less. While it is not accurate, most people has this ability. Sound engineers do understand these principles. So they will create a sound energy first to simulate the ground thump (audible), and then the air ripple arrives later (subsonic)."

We feel tactile sensations, associated with the propagation of sound all the time. But, the extent to which we want to attempt to recreate those sensations in our HT's is absolutely a YMMV question.

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post #16 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 02:45 PM
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I have buttkickers and crowsons which "shake" the seat with bass, but I also have Clark transducers which "vibrate" the seat with almost all sounds.
I have often thought that the addition of these things give me (and anyone watching movies in my theater) a completely different experience than what other people experience on their home TV. And I believe that I (and people in my theater) rate movies higher than the general public for this (unconscious) reason alone.

And the reason (my thoughts): Having sounds produce vibrations not only allows us to judge those sounds as larger (more impactful), but they give us one more sense (tactile) to process that sound. If there is no tactile response to sound we process sound by volume and direction. With a tactile response to sound we now process sound by volume, direction, and sensation. This added information to the sound envelops us even more in the movie experience.

So to the OP, don't get lost in the rabbit hole of people wiring up their couches so that if feels like they've been punched in the chest when the bass hits. Yes, that's cool, but that's not the true iteration of tactile sound (unless everything you watch is Pacific Rim). True tactile sound has nuances and changes in strength the way the sounds change in volume. And if you could add that to your theater correctly, I promise you, you would now realize what everyone is talking about.
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post #17 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Maybe we're not talking about the same thing here....
We are...

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post #18 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 04:43 PM
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Blow???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
Some of those do... and are actual experiences.

Rather I want the most immersion I can achieve and having a speaker &quot;blow&quot; on me ....
Regards well setup Ported Subs...there should be no sensation of blowing air coming at you, IMO. If you are feeling a Blowing effect from your speakers...something else may be amiss. I get really good immersive tactile response...but I never get a sensation of speakers blowing air towards me. In most cases...the good tactile response is not very directional in my setup. I would certainly hate to watch an Air Race and not feel the roar of the planes as you seem to prefer. That said...the feel does send my cats running sometimes so I can see why some might have a valid reason to be less immersive in that regard.
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post #19 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
Am I the only one?
Yup!

I agree with the question whether you've felt it done right or not. If done right, it only adds the immersion experience, doesn't distract. My wife wasn't sure about it at first, mainly due to the added cost, but once I had my BOSS platforms in place, in addition to the Aura Transducers I already had, she was hooked.

But hey, if you don't like it, the beauty of the hobby is you can build your system how YOU want it!
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post #20 of 79 Old 03-12-2020, 05:36 PM
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I have posted on here before that I don't quite understand the craze over "extreme" tactile bass, I like definitely some seat shaking when a large thunder cracks happens in a movie or a large dinosaur stomps it foot etc, but I find too much a bit distracting. I do really like "chest slam" from gun shots, kick drums etc but I feel this is harder to come by, and usually not as "in your face".

This is certainly an "each to their own" kinda thing I guess
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post #21 of 79 Old 03-13-2020, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
I have posted on here before that I don't quite understand the craze over "extreme" tactile bass, I like definitely some seat shaking when a large thunder cracks happens in a movie or a large dinosaur stomps it foot etc, but I find too much a bit distracting. I do really like "chest slam" from gun shots, kick drums etc but I feel this is harder to come by, and usually not as "in your face".

This is certainly an "each to their own" kinda thing I guess
I agree, too much is distracting. I really enjoy my Crowson setup because of that because there is a big difference between the constant heavy bass and the seat shaking effect if properly set.
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post #22 of 79 Old 03-13-2020, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
Our local theater is experimenting with a couple of rows of seats with all sorts of vibrating gizmos attached to them, so I thought what the hell, I'll give it a go............... My wife lasted 7 minutes, and I lasted 15.

Most distracting movie experience since cell phones were invented.

If that was DBOX...I totally agree....I just can't stand it... ..but in a properly executed design it's amazing. Quite a few of the guys here have it down pat.
Nothing like the dbox feel at all.
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post #23 of 79 Old 03-13-2020, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Falonious View Post
If that was DBOX...I totally agree....I just can't stand it... ..but in a properly executed design it's amazing. Quite a few of the guys here have it down pat.
Nothing like the dbox feel at all.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the dbox seating either it just feels unnatural.

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post #24 of 79 Old 03-13-2020, 06:26 PM
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I am definitely in the TR fan boy club! There’s no more enjoyable movie watching experience than a full band movie with bass you can feel all the way down into the single digits, and the wobbles, man, nothing like it! I have a Hover Boss, Boss Back and BKs and just cannot watch a movie now without them in play.
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post #25 of 79 Old 03-13-2020, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R
Am I the only one who doesn't give a hoot about Tactile Response?
I'm going to say 'yes'.

When the soundtrack expects me to be blown away by TR, I want to be blown away by TR.
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post #26 of 79 Old 03-13-2020, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I enjoy reading the sub forum (for some unknown reason) and I even have dual subs. Mainly to reduce the directionality I "felt" even though the second helps to smooth out the frequency response. However I can't wrap my head around why someone would want Tactile Response from their speakers. I'm not saying its wrong... more power to you if it's your thing.

For me it would only cause distraction from the (audio/video) experience by constantly drawing attention to itself. Much like if someone is punched (on screen) I just as soon not have someone punch me. Now if for some reason I would want to embrace the experience I'm guessing Buttkickers (or some such) would do a much better job not to mention be a lot cheaper in most cases.

From reading here I guess I'm the only one... oh and I feel the same about having the bass destroying my house. If its causing everything to vibrate to no end I'm pretty sure it's not blending into the rest of the audio and it's interrupting the experience not enhancing it. Am I the only one?
Yea it sounds like you've only experienced tactile response that was over powered and not properly tuned in. If properly done, tactile response should be simply the feeling you get when the subwoofer is firing directly into your back / bottom of your seat. You shouldn't be able to know that the tactile response comes from a tactile device. I totally agree with you that when it's turned up too loud it's worse than not having it at all. But when it's done and blended right, it's fantastic and invisible to the system. A proper subwoofer system will drop below 20 hz. You can't hear that and you can only feel that. If you have zero tactile response, you're missing some of the natural sounds that come in real life and are available in the movie content.
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post #27 of 79 Old 03-14-2020, 06:36 AM
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I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I enjoy reading the sub forum (for some unknown reason) and I even have dual subs. Mainly to reduce the directionality I "felt" even though the second helps to smooth out the frequency response. However I can't wrap my head around why someone would want Tactile Response from their speakers. I'm not saying its wrong... more power to you if it's your thing.

For me it would only cause distraction from the (audio/video) experience by constantly drawing attention to itself. Much like if someone is punched (on screen) I just as soon not have someone punch me. Now if for some reason I would want to embrace the experience I'm guessing Buttkickers (or some such) would do a much better job not to mention be a lot cheaper in most cases.

From reading here I guess I'm the only one... oh and I feel the same about having the bass destroying my house. If its causing everything to vibrate to no end I'm pretty sure it's not blending into the rest of the audio and it's interrupting the experience not enhancing it. Am I the only one?
I previously had ported subs, now have 4 powerful sealed subs on a concrete floor in a large room in the basement. When I'm doing compression testing, for example, everything on the wooden floor above vibrates. I am thrilled this doesn't happen in my home theater. With explosions, machinery rumbling, etc. there is just the beginning of vibration in the air. I believe that I am running the bass louder without much TR as I was with it.
Seems the conversation is similar to whether you are trying to re-create the music venue with a stereo system. I have a very good stereo and have not given any thought whatsoever to whether I am re-creating the live experience. The best I can tell, the instruments and voices sound authentic with a good sense of air and space, but I don't worry beyond that. In the same way, The bass in my system is excellent (to my ear), but I prefer not to add physical sensations to the bass.
The major benefit I see to your posting is to present an alternative viewpoint for newbies. There are posters who spend so much time and energy helping us that it almost feels disloyal to disagree. But it seems that any newbie looking to this forum for guidance is going to be persuaded that ported and TR are the most enjoyable. Mike Thomas, in particular, is very careful to always state that it is based on individual taste. Many of the other posters, however, are so certain of their preferences that they confidently assert that if you heard a properly set up system you would prefer more TR.
There does seem to be a factor of expense involved. I am fortunate enough to, within reason, not be effected by modest cost differentials. Perhaps it does take more sealed subs to achieve the same level of SPLs.
SVS sells 3 times as many sealed as ported. I doubt that is only because the sealed are smaller and cheaper.

Thanks for bringing this up again.
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post #28 of 79 Old 03-14-2020, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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It's silly to suggest someone doesn't appreciate something solely on the basis they haven't experienced it at its finest. I have had shrimp at its finest (restaurant and the shrimp itself) and I hate it.

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post #29 of 79 Old 03-14-2020, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
It's silly to suggest someone doesn't appreciate something solely on the basis they haven't experienced it at its finest.

It's also silly to "assume" you wouldn't like something without experiencing it for yourself (a properly set up TR system).

I'm not saying that you would definitely like it if you did, merely that you should experience it before making up your mind. Trust me, most shakers (and other TR devices) aren't set up properly and they are very distracting. D-box is completely useless.
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post #30 of 79 Old 03-14-2020, 02:17 PM
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I enjoy it depending on circumstances. I film where you are on the deck of an aircraft carrier, or watching a Saturn V list off at close range, etc would seem empty without it. I've been in quite a few fights though and even getting punched in the face doesn't feel like an earthquake so in a film it doesn't need to either. There are many times that such bass is overdone and distracting almost fatiguing after a while.

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