JL Gotham V2 vs Rel/PSA/SVS/Rhytmik? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 08:35 AM
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It was not a JL audio exclusive dealer store, the dealer stocks rhythmik, svs as well as other brands. So it's some conspiracy that the dealer was pulling off with his demo room to make the gotham v2 sound better than it really is? Great. And dont go on assuming F113 dual units give the same performance, like i said even with dual F113's the pricing of a Gotham v2 is about 5000 dollars higher, they're charging you that money for nothing? Gotham v2 (G213v2)>F113 v2>F113 (older model) (easily audible difference among all of them). I could link a couple of gotham v2 reviews done by professional sites which rate it very highly, but my suspicion is some people will just conveniently write it off saying the writer was paid to say it (you know typical responses), so i'm not going to bother. Enjoy whatever you have, dont buy JL if you dont like it. I'm done here.
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post #32 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rysa_105 View Post
It was not a JL audio exclusive dealer store, the dealer stocks rhythmik, svs as well as other brands. So it's some conspiracy that the dealer was pulling off with his demo room to make the gotham v2 sound better than it really is? Great. And dont go on assuming F113 dual units give the same performance, like i said even with dual F113's the pricing of a Gotham v2 is about 5000 dollars higher, they're charging you that money for nothing? Gotham v2 (G213v2)>F113 v2>F113 (older model) (easily audible difference among all of them). I could link a couple of gotham v2 reviews done by professional sites which rate it very highly, but my suspicion is some people will just conveniently write it off saying the writer was paid to say it (you know typical responses), so i'm not going to bother. Enjoy whatever you have, dont buy JL if you dont like it. I'm done here.
Who stocks Rythmik? At least in America, I'm pretty sure they're direct sale only. They do have distributors in other countries. What country are you in, if you don't mind me asking.

JL does have a more complete set of features than most ID subs, but for most people, unnecessary.

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post #33 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rysa_105 View Post
It was not a JL audio exclusive dealer store, the dealer stocks rhythmik, svs as well as other brands. So it's some conspiracy that the dealer was pulling off with his demo room to make the gotham v2 sound better than it really is? Great. And dont go on assuming F113 dual units give the same performance, like i said even with dual F113's the pricing of a Gotham v2 is about 5000 dollars higher, they're charging you that money for nothing? Gotham v2 (G213v2)>F113 v2>F113 (older model) (easily audible difference among all of them). I could link a couple of gotham v2 reviews done by professional sites which rate it very highly, but my suspicion is some people will just conveniently write it off saying the writer was paid to say it (you know typical responses), so i'm not going to bother. Enjoy whatever you have, dont buy JL if you dont like it. I'm done here.
The Gotham is their flagship, there is no way in hell it is going to sound worse than their other subs. It will be placed ideally or at least better than the other subs. The other subs will be placed around it. They charge $5000 more because they can, and the cabinet is harder to make which takes longer to assemble. There have been owners on here that liked their dual Fathoms better than a single Gotham. Their opinion is just as valid as any. No conspiracy, just the way sales and marketing goes. I like JL, their subs look great and from a way back perform good too. They are not the best I ever experienced.

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post #34 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 10:39 AM
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F113? I thought the OP asked about the Gotham v2? Gotham v2 (G213v2) is a dual driver model, F113 and lower models are not. Why dont you reply on the basis of what the OP is asking? You bring up the F113, another guy comes in and posts SPL charts of the E112. That's like a person coming to ask a question about a B&W 800 series speaker's performance and you reply with your experience of a 700 series speaker or pulling out frequency response graphs of a 600 series speaker. Doesn't make sense. The price difference between the Gotham v2 and F113v2 is about 10k dollars or a little more than that. You think there would be no difference between a Gotham v2 and F113? (even if you did dual F113's , the Gotham v2 would cost about 5000 dollars or a little more).

Have you heard the gotham v2 next to SVS SB16? Personally, i have heard SVS sealed box models, including SB16 and SB13 ultra, and they are not as good as the gotham v2, there is audible distortion on the SB16 and SB13 ultra as you push them to their limits, gotham v2 remains clean. And secondly these SVS subs dont blend in well with music. I have always found SVS (regardless of model) a bit off with music. JL does better with music than SVS. Rhythmik is good with music and i can agree about rhythmik being easier to integrate into 2.1 as it bypasses any DSP.

PS- Dont know what some of you guys are on about, in the end I dont feel the need to convince people fond of ID subs, i heard the Gotham v2 just about 15 days ago (in an acoustically treated room) and I'll trust what my ears heard. This is one really awesome sounding piece of gear. Price wise it does make it hard for me to order it, but i told my dealer to inform me if there is ever a deal running on this model where i can buy it for anything under 10000 bucks, i would be interested in it. Or if i can get it used between 5000-10000 somewhere, i would do it.

The reason I posted it was dual F113's use the same parts/drivers/electronics but have a bit more power than a gotham when combined. This would equal the output of a gotham or a little more with a better sound signature because I could dial in 2 subs rather than one big 1. I have heard a gotham, they have one at Scott Walker Audio about 6 miles from my house. It is a good sub, but it's not competitive any longer, especially for the money. I have demoed it a few times and it never blew me away, but then again I have heard some of the baddest subs on the planet. If you are 100% music and rich and know how to integrate a sub into a 2 channel you will love it, for home theater its abysmal. I also didn't say SVS sounded better, I said it had more output. I didn't end up keeping either. I have been upgrading ever since. JL Audio has had roughly the same design for like 15 years, they are really due for an update.



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post #35 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 10:52 AM
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i have been watchcing this thread for a little bit now. so i finally decided to look at the specs for the gotham.

i am a bit confused. under the specifications, it says “amplifier power - 4500W RMS short-term”

wouldnt “short term” be considered peak and not continuous? RMS (root-mean-square) is not on the peak of the wave and is considered continuous. sontinuous is not (by definition) “short-term”.

i am sure it sounds great (opinions vary of course), but the specs sound a bit confusing to me. are they doing that on purpose?


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post #36 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MATTHEW PATIENT View Post
i have been watchcing this thread for a little bit now. so i finally decided to look at the specs for the gotham.

i am a bit confused. under the specifications, it says “amplifier power - 4500W RMS short-term”

wouldnt “short term” be considered peak and not continuous? RMS (root-mean-square) is not on the peak of the wave and is considered continuous. sontinuous is not (by definition) “short-term”.

i am sure it sounds great (opinions vary of course), but the specs sound a bit confusing to me. are they doing that on purpose?


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Most companies list continuous power and peak power. Peak power is typically 2 times to 3 times continuous power. The 4500 watts listed for the Gotham is likely 2X to 3X continuous power. JL ain't saying. Disappointing for such expensive subs.
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post #37 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 02:11 PM
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Most companies list continuous power and peak power. Peak power is typically 2 times to 3 times continuous power. The 4500 watts listed for the Gotham is likely 2X to 3X continuous power. JL ain't saying. Disappointing for such expensive subs.

i was suprised to not see actual RMS stats for such an expensive piece.

i realize that companies “embelish” certain stats sometimes, but for $16,500.00 i would think there would be a bit more truthfulness as to what the setup can actually do.


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post #38 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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F113? I thought the OP asked about the Gotham v2? Gotham v2 (G213v2) is a dual driver model, F113 and lower models are not. Why dont you reply on the basis of what the OP is asking? You bring up the F113, another guy comes in and posts SPL charts of the E112. That's like a person coming to ask a question about a B&W 800 series speaker's performance and you reply with your experience of a 700 series speaker or pulling out frequency response graphs of a 600 series speaker. Doesn't make sense. The price difference between the Gotham v2 and F113v2 is about 10k dollars or a little more than that. You think there would be no difference between a Gotham v2 and F113? (even if you did dual F113's , the Gotham v2 would cost about 5000 dollars or a little more).

Have you heard the gotham v2 next to SVS SB16? Personally, i have heard SVS sealed box models, including SB16 and SB13 ultra, and they are not as good as the gotham v2, there is audible distortion on the SB16 and SB13 ultra as you push them to their limits, gotham v2 remains clean. And secondly these SVS subs dont blend in well with music. I have always found SVS (regardless of model) a bit off with music. JL does better with music than SVS. Rhythmik is good with music and i can agree about rhythmik being easier to integrate into 2.1 as it bypasses any DSP.

PS- Dont know what some of you guys are on about, in the end I dont feel the need to convince people fond of ID subs, i heard the Gotham v2 just about 15 days ago (in an acoustically treated room) and I'll trust what my ears heard. This is one really awesome sounding piece of gear. Price wise it does make it hard for me to order it, but i told my dealer to inform me if there is ever a deal running on this model where i can buy it for anything under 10000 bucks, i would be interested in it. Or if i can get it used between 5000-10000 somewhere, i would do it.

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Dual JL Gotham v2 for $8500. Let us know if you grab them!


If its possible for me to use PSA S7201 in dual configuration for music and for it perform near the level of rel 6 pack... then I would go with this option because I like the idea of massive power at my disposal for home theatre... not to mention 4x 18 inch reaching far lower than what a rel 6 pack of s812 can do likely.

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post #39 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 07:34 PM
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Setup your subs correctly and you should not have to touch anything.
no way, no how.
music, tv, movies, all vary too wildly.
there are certain older cds i listen to, that need a serious adjustment here and there.
i would sell all my stuff if i had to rip the gain knob off and throw it away.
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post #40 of 186 Old 03-19-2020, 10:01 PM
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Setup your subs correctly and you should not have to touch anything.
no way, no how.
music, tv, movies, all vary too wildly.
there are certain older cds i listen to, that need a serious adjustment here and there.
i would sell all my stuff if i had to rip the gain knob off and throw it away.
I would throw my subs in the garbage if I had to fiddle with them that much. I can see why an app is important to you but if I want to change volume I use my phone app as well. My amp gain stays the same all the time, on max. I have different amps.

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post #41 of 186 Old 03-20-2020, 08:00 AM
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post #42 of 186 Old 03-20-2020, 08:29 AM
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BEQ is a different story. The point is one can make their phone app do what the SVS does when the gains on the amp are set correctly. I don't touch my amp gains ever and use my phone. Of course my gains are at max so the only thing I ever have to do is turn down the LFE trim but that has not happened. Being I DIYER I tinker far more than gain, hell, I just measured 5 different drivers for distortion and response. I do so much prior to a movie or music listening I just want to sit and enjoy after.
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post #43 of 186 Old 03-20-2020, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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One thing I don't get is why does the Gotham weigh so much? Its dual 13.5s and its 360 lbs! Even Tom's upcoming quad 18 sub is only around 340 lbs. What do they have in there to make it so heavy ?

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post #44 of 186 Old 03-20-2020, 11:53 AM
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Dual JL Gotham v2 for $8500. Let us know if you grab them!

That price is for each, but $8500 is still well below his 10k limit.

Is this price for the pair or individual ?
Each
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post #45 of 186 Old 03-20-2020, 12:35 PM
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One thing I don't get is why does the Gotham weigh so much? Its dual 13.5s and its 360 lbs! Even Tom's upcoming quad 18 sub is only around 340 lbs. What do they have in there to make it so heavy ?
Over 100lBs of drivers in there, tonnes of thick MDF and fibreglass (2" thick walls) + amp. Definitely looks solid as hell!


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post #46 of 186 Old 03-20-2020, 01:56 PM
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Over 100lBs of drivers in there, tonnes of thick MDF and fibreglass (2" thick walls) + amp. Definitely looks solid as hell!

https://youtu.be/mX3Gr9bdmG8

it’s a honeycomb construction coated with thinner wood according to the video. is the internal bracing steel?

even if it was solid 2” of wood, with drivers and amp and insulation, i could see 200lbs...but 360lbs? now if it’s a fiberglass coated steel frame, then ya...i could see 360lbs.

just seems a bit odd.


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post #47 of 186 Old 03-20-2020, 09:13 PM
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it’s a honeycomb construction coated with thinner wood according to the video. is the internal bracing steel?

even if it was solid 2” of wood, with drivers and amp and insulation, i could see 200lbs...but 360lbs? now if it’s a fiberglass coated steel frame, then ya...i could see 360lbs.

just seems a bit odd.


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Could be? I doubt JL Audio would lie about the weight (IMHO), especially for something that is getting shipped all around the world

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post #48 of 186 Old 03-20-2020, 10:10 PM
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It's probably just massively over built.

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post #49 of 186 Old 03-21-2020, 03:51 AM
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Good God… I just looked the G213v2 up over here in Australia, and they are $30,000....

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Could be? I doubt JL Audio would lie about the weight (IMHO), especially for something that is getting shipped all around the world

oh, i’m not saying JLAudio is lying. All i’m saying is that i think we cann ALL agree 360lbs for a dual sub enclosure is REALLY heavy. and i am curious what else besides wood they have in there to get that kind of weight.

the video didnt really get into construction materials besides honeycomb construction, “thin wood to keep enclosure size large” and fiberglass wrapping.

i am curious what contributes to that weight


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post #51 of 186 Old 03-21-2020, 04:26 AM
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oh, i’m not saying JLAudio is lying. All i’m saying is that i think we cann ALL agree 360lbs for a dual sub enclosure is REALLY heavy. and i am curious what else besides wood they have in there to get that kind of weight.

the video didnt really get into construction materials besides honeycomb construction, “thin wood to keep enclosure size large” and fiberglass wrapping.

i am curious what contributes to that weight


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Haha sorry I didn't mean to imply that you thought JL were lying about the weight - I had actually thought to myself - "god-damn that's heavy for it's size!" that's why I looked up the video, perhaps there's steel plate in the base as well??
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post #52 of 186 Old 03-21-2020, 07:01 AM
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Haha sorry I didn't mean to imply that you thought JL were lying about the weight - I had actually thought to myself - "god-damn that's heavy for it's size!" that's why I looked up the video, perhaps there's steel plate in the base as well??

i didnt take it that way, i was just clarifying how i am curious.

the video was cool, but it didnt clarify where that weight comes from.

it is VERY heavy. are there any speakers this size out there that are heavy like this? the FV25HP is only 230lbs...just curious


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post #53 of 186 Old 03-21-2020, 07:05 AM
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i didnt take it that way, i was just clarifying how i am curious.

the video was cool, but it didnt clarify where that weight comes from.

it is VERY heavy. are there any speakers this size out there that are heavy like this? the FV25HP is only 230lbs...just curious


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I think this is the first time that the FV25hp has been described as "only" when talking about it's weight!

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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
I think this is the first time that the FV25hp has been described as "only" when talking about it's weight!

ya sorry about that. i didnt know what other word to use when compairing it to the Gotham lol.


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post #55 of 186 Old 03-21-2020, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Im sure its a great sub but i think they just have too much really solid competition and much lower price points. Probably not a smart price point but we'll see.



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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
That price is for each, but $8500 is still well below his 10k limit.

Is this price for the pair or individual ?
Each

Sorry my bad! Wish the ad was more honest. Needed Q+A for clarification.

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post #56 of 186 Old 03-22-2020, 09:26 AM
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at least they put all the controls on the front like they should be, rather stuck on the rear ,where you have to bust your back to get to them.
ive never understood that concept.
thats why i love my svs
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post #57 of 186 Old 03-22-2020, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Smood View Post
Im sure its a great sub but i think they just have too much really solid competition and much lower price points. Probably not a smart price point but we'll see.






Sorry my bad! Wish the ad was more honest. Needed Q+A for clarification.
It's obvious you are looking for state of the art performance with a nearly cost no object budget. Here's what I'd be looking at, if value is still important for you:

PSA TV42 IPAL
PSA TV36 IPAL
PSA S3612

Rythmik G25HP
Rythmik FV25HP

JTR S2

Funk Audio if you want state of the art performance and a hand crafted work of art.

https://www.funkaudio.ca

A specific example: https://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p45/F...dio_21.0L.html

Any/all of the above subs should match or exceed the Gotham in every performance metric.
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Last edited by bear123; 03-22-2020 at 12:22 PM.
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post #58 of 186 Old 03-22-2020, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
It's obvious you are looking for state of the art performance with a nearly cost no object budget. Here's what I'd be looking at, if value is still important for you:

PSA TV42 IPAL
PSA TV36 IPAL
PSA S3612

Rythmik G25HP
Rythmik FV25HP

JTR S2

Funk Audio if you want state of the art performance and a hand crafted work of art.

https://www.funkaudio.ca

A specific example: https://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p45/F...dio_21.0L.html

Any/all of the above subs should match or exceed the Gotham in every performance metric.
+1 to this...and that would be the RS2 now.

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post #59 of 186 Old 03-22-2020, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
It's obvious you are looking for state of the art performance with a nearly cost no object budget. Here's what I'd be looking at, if value is still important for you:

PSA TV42 IPAL
PSA TV36 IPAL
PSA S3612

Rythmik G25HP
Rythmik FV25HP

JTR S2

Funk Audio if you want state of the art performance and a hand crafted work of art.

https://www.funkaudio.ca

A specific example: https://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p45/F...dio_21.0L.html

Any/all of the above subs should match or exceed the Gotham in every performance metric.

Awesome thanks, great options. I think I would go for two of his S72ipal (4 x 18 inch ipal drivers). Apparently hes only making a few ?
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post #60 of 186 Old 03-24-2020, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Smood View Post
Im sure its a great sub but i think they just have too much really solid competition and much lower price points. Probably not a smart price point but we'll see.
It's a brilliant price point. JL Audio understands their market well. A JL Audio customer isn't looking at PSA, JTR, or other ID companies. They *might* consider SVS.

To use a tired car analogy, A Mercedes or BMW customer isn't looking at Honda or Toyota. Someone in the market for a BMW M6 isn't considering a KIA Stinger.
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