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post #1 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Dual Subwoofer Recommendations

I am getting ready to wade into the waters of dual subs. I am open to SVS, Rythmik, RSL, HSU, etc. I just gave away my subwoofer to my brother. So I am fairly familiar with single sub setups but clueless about dual subs other than it should help level out the peaks and lulls (my goal) throughout the room. Here are my pertinent specs:


- Polk 5.0 speakers S55, S30, S10
- 5,300+ cubic foot volume entertainment room
- irregular shaped room
- Thick pad and carpet over concrete floor
- Sound isolated ceiling sheetrock with roxul insulation above for sound isolation (yes this is a basement)
- Budget will be around $500-600/sub
- 50/50 movies and music listening (the music listening very loud, not sure if I get to reference levels or not but I think I do)



So other than having two subs for a dual sub setup, what else is there to know? Is ported vs sealed a different debate with dual subs? What kind of receiver features do I need to make the most out of a dual sub setup? Do any receivers do dual subs better than others? Does room correction matter?



And of course, what subs should I be looking at? I don't need anything extreme like a setup that can hit <18Hz but I would like something that get to or close to 20Hz and of course a flat response curve from <25Hz to 120Hz would be nice.


Thanks to any guidance that can be provided.

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post #2 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 07:56 AM
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You are going to have to up the budget to get reference level in that room. If you keep your expectations modest then a pair of HSU VTF 2.5's will work but I would be looking at the VTF3.5's minimum for that space.
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post #3 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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You are going to have to up the budget to get reference level in that room. If you keep your expectations modest then a pair of HSU VTF 2.5's will work but I would be looking at the VTF3.5's minimum for that space.

I could probably swing the dual drive VTF2 but the dual drive VTF3 might be a stretch. What is the differences between the two? Is it just peak SPL?


and I guess just for comparison I had a BIC PL-200ii that was really good as far as volume goes. I'm pretty sure just two of those would have gotten me to where I wanted to be volume wise but I wanted a bit more flat response than what the single one provided. I know the PL-200ii handles volume and large spaces rather well but I don't know how it compares to others.
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post #4 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 08:13 AM
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Extension is even lower and even more output. The VTF3.5 is the best deal going in subs under 1000.00. It often runs on sale and you can get a dual drive package for around 1549.00 plus shipping. The PL200 is a one note ringer like most car subs with a 50hz peaked response. Either HSU will be a significant upgrade in output, extension, and accuracy.
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post #5 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 08:14 AM
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Since you don't want to end up thinking "what if?", up your budget to get dual HSU VTF3.5 and enjoy them for years to come.
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post #6 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Since you don't want to end up thinking "what if?", up your budget to get dual HSU VTF3.5 and enjoy them for years to come.

aren't those fairly large? I'll have to do some measuring as I think just the size of those might be a breaker for me.


I don't need the best. I'm more of a "good enough" type.
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post #7 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
I could probably swing the dual drive VTF2 but the dual drive VTF3 might be a stretch. What is the differences between the two? Is it just peak SPL?


and I guess just for comparison I had a BIC PL-200ii that was really good as far as volume goes. I'm pretty sure just two of those would have gotten me to where I wanted to be volume wise but I wanted a bit more flat response than what the single one provided. I know the PL-200ii handles volume and large spaces rather well but I don't know how it compares to others.
If the BIC was giving you a volume level that you were satisfied with a pair of the VTF2.5s would be a major step up in extension and SQ while adding some output headroom. Max SPL between singles of each won't be that different but everything else will be much better.
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post #8 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 03:15 PM
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That's a large room to fill with bass and a relatively small budget to do it with.

A pair of ULS-15 Mk2 might be an easier pill to swallow size wise. Not great on budget, but budgets are meant to be blown through.

I honestly think twin VTF-15H Mk2 is the smallest I'd go, but I'm a bit of a bass head (2 TN1220HO subs, and 1 VTF-15H Mk2 in a 2350 cu ft room; 2nd VTF-15H Mk2 just got delivered today)...
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post #9 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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If the BIC was giving you a volume level that you were satisfied with a pair of the VTF2.5s would be a major step up in extension and SQ while adding some output headroom. Max SPL between singles of each won't be that different but everything else will be much better.

I think you are probably right. Based on some dual sub reviews it seems like even 2x SVS PB-1000 would be a big upgrade for me. I don't know that I will need to go crazy to be happy but of course I am well aware this is a slippery slope once you get started.



Does the 2.5 just mean buying two subs? I can't find anything on the HSU website about 2.5, 3.5 etc. It just has VTF2, VTF3, etc.



Is the HSU a better option than SVS or Rythmik? I have read reviews on each and I get that the HSU subs are generally tunable. Not sure about the others. Is the Rythmik less distorted with its servo design?

Can anyone help go over the pros, cons or unique attributes of these or other subs to consider? Thanks again everyone for the help.
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post #10 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
I think you are probably right. Based on some dual sub reviews it seems like even 2x SVS PB-1000 would be a big upgrade for me. I don't know that I will need to go crazy to be happy but of course I am well aware this is a slippery slope once you get started.



Does the 2.5 just mean buying two subs? I can't find anything on the HSU website about 2.5, 3.5 etc. It just has VTF2, VTF3, etc.



Is the HSU a better option than SVS or Rythmik? I have read reviews on each and I get that the HSU subs are generally tunable. Not sure about the others. Is the Rythmik less distorted with its servo design?

Can anyone help go over the pros, cons or unique attributes of these or other subs to consider? Thanks again everyone for the help.



I'm very new to all of this as well. When they say 2.5 or 3.5 I believe they are referring to "VTF-2 MK-5" and "VTF-3 MK-5". VTF means "variable tuning frequency" while MK means "mark".



I just purchased an SVS PB-2000 sub (not the pro model) and received it yesterday. In the next day or so I will have a chance to try it out. The great thing with SVS is their return policy. If your not happy with it they will schedule and pay for the return shipping. You have 45 days risk free to try it out. The space I'm working with is 12 x 13 and so far its size seems reasonable. If I find I'm happy with it which I'm sure I will be I plan on getting another one for a dual setup. However in the unlikely chance I decide to go bigger heaven forbid my choice would be the HSU VTF-3 MK-5.
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post #11 of 32 Old 03-17-2020, 06:51 PM
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Definitely budget for the Umik-1, and the free REW software. It is really needed to find best sub location and seeing crossover influence.

Just moved from single to dual and using the Umik could see what placement- even moving inches- did to graphs in the REW.
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post #12 of 32 Old 03-19-2020, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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does anyone know much about the rythmik LV12F? I am kind of leaning this way right now but I can't find any comparisons to show how much better if any servo is over conventional.
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-20-2020, 11:28 AM
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How much difference in:

HSU 12” 350w — $539
dual HSU 10” 250w — $399 ea

dual RSL Speedwoofers $399 ea

dual Monolith 10” 500w sealed $400 ea
dual Monolith 10” 500w ported $430 ea
used Monolith THX 12” 500w ported $520

85% HT use. I also have a small KEF sub [from the HTS eggs] hooked up.
My preference would be to try to keep my initial sub purchase in the $400 range if I could. Thx in advance.
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post #14 of 32 Old 03-20-2020, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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just to update this thread, I have done some more testing to figure out what "reference" is. I'm pretty sure I will not listen to anything at reference levels. I think the highest I would want to go and still get precise, accurate, clean sound would be about -10 to -15dB.


I think this is doable for 2 subs around $1500 or less. Am I wrong?
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post #15 of 32 Old 03-20-2020, 01:12 PM
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I would get dual Ryrhmik LVX12. With shipping the price for a pair is $1504.50.
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post #16 of 32 Old 03-20-2020, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
just to update this thread, I have done some more testing to figure out what "reference" is. I'm pretty sure I will not listen to anything at reference levels. I think the highest I would want to go and still get precise, accurate, clean sound would be about -10 to -15dB.


I think this is doable for 2 subs around $1500 or less. Am I wrong?
That depends on how hot you run the sub(s). For some -10 could easily be reference level on bass because they add +10db of boost post calibration. If you only boost the sub trim 5-6db or less then yes I suspect 1500.00 worth of woofage will cover your needs. However, I like the saying "buy once, cry once"...and would advise getting enough woofage to cure the potential upgrade bug that often likes to bite.
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post #17 of 32 Old 03-21-2020, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I would get dual Ryrhmik LVX12. With shipping the price for a pair is $1504.50.

Does the LVX12 just get louder? I tried looking at their curves and they look similar response wise.
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post #18 of 32 Old 03-21-2020, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Extension is even lower and even more output. The VTF3.5 is the best deal going in subs under 1000.00. It often runs on sale and you can get a dual drive package for around 1549.00 plus shipping. The PL200 is a one note ringer like most car subs with a 50hz peaked response. Either HSU will be a significant upgrade in output, extension, and accuracy.

have you seen any data comparing the HSU subs to Rythmik in this price range?
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post #19 of 32 Old 03-21-2020, 04:48 PM
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Does the LVX12 just get louder? I tried looking at their curves and they look similar response wise.
The LVX12 is a little bigger, a little heavier, 100 watts more amplifier power, variable tune (2 ports). With 2 ports open the LVX12 is tuned to 20Hz, with 1 port open the LVX12 is tuned to 14Hz.
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post #20 of 32 Old 03-25-2020, 08:02 AM
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However, I like the saying "buy once, cry once"...and would advise getting enough woofage to cure the potential upgrade bug that often likes to bite.
Beat me to it, but I completely agree with the "buy once, cry once" approach...says me who may switch out subs with the release of something new in the next few months. Lean over to look into the rabbit hole far enough and you'll fall in...or someone may give you a gentle push.

I've got the Hsu VTF-3 Mk5 HP in our main floor living room and it's great. But I felt I needed to up the ante a bit in the basement theater space (with concrete slab). Even then, it's tough to get that tactile feeling...even near reference levels. I feel the weight and pressure of the bass in the air--and it's impressive--but it's not enough. So I'll be building a BOSS mini-riser to achieve that chair-rumbling effect we're not getting in the room.

I believe the UMIK-1 and using REW are important. The miniDSP 2x4HD is nice as well so that you can EQ the subs and get them to play nice with the potential issues your particular room may have.

Best of luck with your choice!
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post #21 of 32 Old 03-25-2020, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe the UMIK-1 and using REW are important. The miniDSP 2x4HD is nice as well so that you can EQ the subs and get them to play nice with the potential issues your particular room may have.

Best of luck with your choice!

Thank you.

What is the difference between miniDSP 2x4 and 2x4HD? It seems like the 2x4 should be able to tune dual subs, am I wrong?

I think I'm to the point I won't rely on room correction features and focus on a receiver that will allow me to use REW to customize by speaker.


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Beat me to it, but I completely agree with the "buy once, cry once" approach...says me who may switch out subs with the release of something new in the next few months. Lean over to look into the rabbit hole far enough and you'll fall in...or someone may give you a gentle push.

I'm 99% sure the buy once, cry once choice for me is the FVX12. I'm fairly certain though the LV12F would satisfy my needs, though, at a lower price. I hate these decisions.
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post #22 of 32 Old 03-26-2020, 07:57 PM
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Thank you.

What is the difference between miniDSP 2x4 and 2x4HD?
IIRC this Z Review explains the difference between the 2. Plus, he's just entertaining as hell to listen to.



Hope this helps,

Darrell
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post #23 of 32 Old 03-27-2020, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
I am getting ready to wade into the waters of dual subs. I am open to SVS, Rythmik, RSL, HSU, etc. I just gave away my subwoofer to my brother. So I am fairly familiar with single sub setups but clueless about dual subs other than it should help level out the peaks and lulls (my goal) throughout the room. Here are my pertinent specs:


- Polk 5.0 speakers S55, S30, S10
- 5,300+ cubic foot volume entertainment room
- irregular shaped room
- Thick pad and carpet over concrete floor
- Sound isolated ceiling sheetrock with roxul insulation above for sound isolation (yes this is a basement)
- Budget will be around $500-600/sub
- 50/50 movies and music listening (the music listening very loud, not sure if I get to reference levels or not but I think I do)



So other than having two subs for a dual sub setup, what else is there to know? Is ported vs sealed a different debate with dual subs? What kind of receiver features do I need to make the most out of a dual sub setup? Do any receivers do dual subs better than others? Does room correction matter?



And of course, what subs should I be looking at? I don't need anything extreme like a setup that can hit <18Hz but I would like something that get to or close to 20Hz and of course a flat response curve from <25Hz to 120Hz would be nice.


Thanks to any guidance that can be provided.
What did you end up going with?
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post #24 of 32 Old 03-27-2020, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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What did you end up going with?

Currently trying to decide between the Rythmik LVX12 and FVX12. Will likely purchase in April.

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IIRC this Z Review explains the difference between the 2. Plus, he's just entertaining as hell to listen to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4OY0MhMKTc


Hope this helps,

Darrell
This seems overwhelming... Is this always needed for multiple subs?

"Go Blue"
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This seems overwhelming... Is this always needed for multiple subs?



No, it is not needed. If your room acoustics and subs are top notch, you won't need this much at all.



This is how you squeeze that last 5-10% of perfection out of subs in an imperfect scenario. if your sub is boomy at a frequency due to the sub design or room application, this device helps you flatten that if you want.


I bet using this you could take two really cheap subs and EQ them to sound like much higher end subs.
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
No, it is not needed. If your room acoustics and subs are top notch, you won't need this much at all.



This is how you squeeze that last 5-10% of perfection out of subs in an imperfect scenario. if your sub is boomy at a frequency due to the sub design or room application, this device helps you flatten that if you want.


I bet using this you could take two really cheap subs and EQ them to sound like much higher end subs.
thanks brother... I have a second HSU VTF 15h MK 2 being delivered Tuesday. I hope that is quality enough not to have to go through these step...

"Go Blue"
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post #28 of 32 Old 03-27-2020, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
No, it is not needed. If your room acoustics and subs are top notch, you won't need this much at all.



This is how you squeeze that last 5-10% of perfection out of subs in an imperfect scenario. if your sub is boomy at a frequency due to the sub design or room application, this device helps you flatten that if you want.


I bet using this you could take two really cheap subs and EQ them to sound like much higher end subs.
I disagree. Strongly so.

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thanks brother... I have a second HSU VTF 15h MK 2 being delivered Tuesday. I hope that is quality enough not to have to go through these step...
You're trying to integrate 3 subs. Good luck without a MiniDSP. Been there done that... I now preach MiniDSP for a reason.

MiniDSP 2x4HD, UMIK-1, REW... The holy trinity for running multiple subs.

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post #29 of 32 Old 03-28-2020, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I disagree. Strongly so.

You're trying to integrate 3 subs. Good luck without a MiniDSP. Been there done that... I now preach MiniDSP for a reason.



It depends on the expectations. If one wants perfection, yes it is almost a must have. Not everyone has that level of expectation. Many are happy w/out the use of miniDSP.
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post #30 of 32 Old 03-28-2020, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks brother... I have a second HSU VTF 15h MK 2 being delivered Tuesday. I hope that is quality enough not to have to go through these step...

The sub is great but your room might still cause problems that cannot be eliminated with well positioned multiple subs. It all depends on what you are/will be happy with.



What is your goal? Are you just wanting SPL?
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