Recommendations for subwoofer upgrade - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Recommendations for subwoofer upgrade

Hello all, looking for advice on subwoofer upgrades. Here is my current situation.
I have a fairly large living room, about 4200 cu ft, with one side open to the kitchen/dining area (open floor plan). The ceiling is vaulted from 9 ft high on the closed end to 13 ft high on the open end. I currently have two SVS SB12-NSD subs connected to a Marantz 6012 receiver used as a pre-pro with room correction enabled. The mains are PSB Synchrony Ones. Crossover set at 60 Hz.

Right now I feel the bass is often a bit anemic. I do not listen at really high levels. For me I think 90-95 dB SPL is rather loud. 100 dB tops.

Music is priority one, with HT priority two. I will give up some deep low end below 20 Hz, if the sub integrates better with my mains for music.

I think I am looking at getting a pair of 15” subs, budget is $1500-2000 tops. Based on internet searching a pair of ULS-15 mk2 is the leading candidate.
Any Advice and help is appreciated!

Yup, I got stuff...
LG OLED65C7P, LG 55EG9100
Marantz SR6012, Classe Sigma Amp5, Oppo BDP-203
PSB Synchrony One mains, Synchrony two center and surrounds, 2x SVS SB12-NSD
XBox One X

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post #2 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJayDub
… looking for advice on subwoofer upgrades. … I have a fairly large living room, about 4200 sq ft, with one side open to the kitchen/dining area (open floor plan). The ceiling is vaulted from 9 ft high on the closed end to 13 ft high on the open end. … Right now I feel the bass is often a bit anemic. … Music is priority one, with HT priority two. I will give up some deep low end below 20 Hz, if the sub integrates better with my mains for music. I think I am looking at getting a pair of 15” subs, budget is $1500-2000 tops. …
FWIW, $2,150* (sorry! ), shipped, gets you a pair of servo-controlled, tune-able Rythmik FVX15s.
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(*Price is $1,139/ea., shipped, but it drops if you put two in the cart.)

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post #3 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJayDub View Post
Hello all, looking for advice on subwoofer upgrades. Here is my current situation.
I have a fairly large living room, about 4200 sq ft, with one side open to the kitchen/dining area (open floor plan). The ceiling is vaulted from 9 ft high on the closed end to 13 ft high on the open end. I currently have two SVS SB12-NSD subs connected to a Marantz 6012 receiver used as a pre-pro with room correction enabled. The mains are PSB Synchrony Ones. Crossover set at 60 Hz.

Right now I feel the bass is often a bit anemic. I do not listen at really high levels. For me I think 90-95 dB SPL is rather loud. 100 dB tops.

Music is priority one, with HT priority two. I will give up some deep low end below 20 Hz, if the sub integrates better with my mains for music.

I think I am looking at getting a pair of 15” subs, budget is $1500-2000 tops. Based on internet searching a pair of ULS-15 mk2 is the leading candidate.
Any Advice and help is appreciated!

If your numbers are correct you are at 46,000 cu.ft. of volume. I hope that was a typo above and you are actually at 4,200 cu.ft.

I would do ported since you will have some HT usage. The ULS-15 is a great sub but won't provide as much tactile response for movies as a ported sub.

If your listening levels don't change, I think some high end dual 12" subs will probably work well for you. But as I have recently learned myself, once the bass gets cleaned up with proper subwoofers, your listening level preference might start increasing. If you want to protect from that slippery slope problem, the ported 15" subs would be a good starting point. The Rythmik FVX15, FV15HP, HSU VTF3 or 15H, Monolith 15", PSA has several 15" subs, etc. would be good starting points. I think the price per sub you will be looking at will be $1,200+ except for the HSU subs. HSU subs are closer to $800-900 starting point.

If you want even bass for multiple seating locations be prepared that one big sub may not suffice.
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post #4 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DrJayDub View Post
Hello all, looking for advice on subwoofer upgrades. Here is my current situation.

I have a fairly large living room, about 4200 sq ft, with one side open to the kitchen/dining area (open floor plan). The ceiling is vaulted from 9 ft high on the closed end to 13 ft high on the open end. I currently have two SVS SB12-NSD subs connected to a Marantz 6012 receiver used as a pre-pro with room correction enabled. The mains are PSB Synchrony Ones. Crossover set at 60 Hz.



Right now I feel the bass is often a bit anemic. I do not listen at really high levels. For me I think 90-95 dB SPL is rather loud. 100 dB tops.



Music is priority one, with HT priority two. I will give up some deep low end below 20 Hz, if the sub integrates better with my mains for music.



I think I am looking at getting a pair of 15” subs, budget is $1500-2000 tops. Based on internet searching a pair of ULS-15 mk2 is the leading candidate.

Any Advice and help is appreciated!
Buy one quality subwoofer now and add a second later. JTR and Power Sound Audio are good bang for your buck. PSA has a preorder pricing on a fantastic 18 inch. Add a second 18 later.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/prod...-ipal-preorder



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post #5 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
If your numbers are correct you are at 46,000 cu.ft. of volume. I hope that was a typo above and you are actually at 4,200 cu.ft.
Oops, yes I meant 4200 cu ft, not sq ft.

Yup, I got stuff...
LG OLED65C7P, LG 55EG9100
Marantz SR6012, Classe Sigma Amp5, Oppo BDP-203
PSB Synchrony One mains, Synchrony two center and surrounds, 2x SVS SB12-NSD
XBox One X
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post #6 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 12:23 PM
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You said you feel like your bass is anemic - have you done room measurements or tried different sub positions? It's possible that your main listening position is in a null and if that's the case bigger, badder subs aren't going to help you. If you've already done that and your pushing your current subs to the limit, I'd recommend Power Sound Audio. 15"' are probably at the top of your budget, but if you could swing a pair of 18's that would be a huge upgrade. There's no substitute for cone surface area.


If you would be open to DIY, the VBSS is a great musical DIY sub with tons of mid-bass. You could build a pair and buy an amp for around $600.
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Originally Posted by DrJayDub View Post
Oops, yes I meant 4200 cu ft, not sq ft.
That is still a huge room. IMO get a TV1812 add a 2nd one later down the road. 12hz port tune with good mid-bass.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/prod...v1812-preorder
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post #8 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 04:08 PM
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Have any of the power sound audio owners transitioned from SVS?
I have an SVS SB 16 and was considering at a point getting one from power sound and audio also.
I think the only thing that put me off is the "finish" didn't look as nice on the power sound audio (pretty important to getting huge subs wife approved)
Thanks!
Joshua
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post #9 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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To everyone

Thanks all for the advice already. Given me quite a bit to consider!

I have spent time trying to find a decent placement for the subs, but I am not sure if the main seat is in a null area or not. I am looking into that, and applying the tips and information provided in the sticky thread on sub calibration.

As I am learning more, I am becoming more interested in ported subs. Especially in my room considering the volume. Great recommendations and have given me a lot to think about and research.

Yup, I got stuff...
LG OLED65C7P, LG 55EG9100
Marantz SR6012, Classe Sigma Amp5, Oppo BDP-203
PSB Synchrony One mains, Synchrony two center and surrounds, 2x SVS SB12-NSD
XBox One X
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post #10 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
That is still a huge room. IMO get a TV1812 add a 2nd one later down the road. 12hz port tune with good mid-bass.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/prod...v1812-preorder
What is the difference between the PSA TV18 and PSA TV18 Ipal?

Yup, I got stuff...
LG OLED65C7P, LG 55EG9100
Marantz SR6012, Classe Sigma Amp5, Oppo BDP-203
PSB Synchrony One mains, Synchrony two center and surrounds, 2x SVS SB12-NSD
XBox One X
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post #11 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
You said you feel like your bass is anemic - have you done room measurements or tried different sub positions? It's possible that your main listening position is in a null and if that's the case bigger, badder subs aren't going to help you. If you've already done that and your pushing your current subs to the limit, I'd recommend Power Sound Audio. 15"' are probably at the top of your budget, but if you could swing a pair of 18's that would be a huge upgrade. There's no substitute for cone surface area.


If you would be open to DIY, the VBSS is a great musical DIY sub with tons of mid-bass. You could build a pair and buy an amp for around $600.
Where can I learn more about the VBSS DIY option? Are there kits out there that come with the MDF pieces pre-cut?

Yup, I got stuff...
LG OLED65C7P, LG 55EG9100
Marantz SR6012, Classe Sigma Amp5, Oppo BDP-203
PSB Synchrony One mains, Synchrony two center and surrounds, 2x SVS SB12-NSD
XBox One X
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post #12 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 04:41 PM
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What is the difference between the PSA TV18 and PSA TV18 Ipal?
If you want the best of the best the iPal is it. 3-4mm more xmax iirc. It has a heavier magnet, better motor structure which Will provide a different sound signature. If you listen at or beyond reference levels and you run your sub Hot then iPal is the way to go.
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post #13 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 04:42 PM
 
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Where can I learn more about the VBSS DIY option? Are there kits out there that come with the MDF pieces pre-cut?
Yes but they are not available as of yet. They will not be a $1.00 . No ETA on availability yet.

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-p...flat-pack.html

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Originally Posted by ou_joshua View Post
Have any of the power sound audio owners transitioned from SVS?
I have an SVS SB 16 and was considering at a point getting one from power sound and audio also.
I think the only thing that put me off is the "finish" didn't look as nice on the power sound audio (pretty important to getting huge subs wife approved)
Thanks!
Joshua
I'm a former SVS owner, had several SVS sub's in the past now rocking PSA's (18" ported).

The PSA's make the hair on my arms stand up, very happy with them
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post #15 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ou_joshua View Post
Have any of the power sound audio owners transitioned from SVS?
I have an SVS SB 16 and was considering at a point getting one from power sound and audio also.
I think the only thing that put me off is the "finish" didn't look as nice on the power sound audio (pretty important to getting huge subs wife approved)
Thanks!
Joshua
Have you seen the finish in person? Most people find that once they see it, the finish is much nicer than expected.
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post #16 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone, so helpful!

Yup, I got stuff...
LG OLED65C7P, LG 55EG9100
Marantz SR6012, Classe Sigma Amp5, Oppo BDP-203
PSB Synchrony One mains, Synchrony two center and surrounds, 2x SVS SB12-NSD
XBox One X
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post #17 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 05:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJayDub View Post
To everyone



Thanks all for the advice already. Given me quite a bit to consider!



I have spent time trying to find a decent placement for the subs, but I am not sure if the main seat is in a null area or not. I am looking into that, and applying the tips and information provided in the sticky thread on sub calibration.



As I am learning more, I am becoming more interested in ported subs. Especially in my room considering the volume. Great recommendations and have given me a lot to think about and research.
Most rooms are rectangular. Many people just put the sub in the front right corner. Center of the room is a natural bass null in most rectangular rooms with equal length side walls. If your seating is close to the center you could be sitting in the bass null.


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post #18 of 25 Old 05-06-2020, 06:48 PM
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You should try a crossover higher than 60 hz. Perhaps 100hz or 120hz. You have two subs so localization is less of an issue. There is content below 60hz but not all that much in music. Try a higher crossover and make sure the two subs are phase matched and then make sure the combined phase match sub combo are optimized for output at the crossover point with the mains.

Yes you have a large area but you may not have optimized what you have. Before you spend more money make sure you are getting all you can out of your current gear.

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post #19 of 25 Old 05-07-2020, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DrJayDub View Post
Where can I learn more about the VBSS DIY option? Are there kits out there that come with the MDF pieces pre-cut?

As mentioned above, DIY Sound Group is working on a flat pack for it, that would be pre-cut, but they haven't released it yet. It's a pretty straight forward build and only uses one sheet of MDF or Baltic Birch Plywood if you use the Precision Ports.



Here is the Master Thread
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...gn-thread.html


This is the driver you will need
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-036


Here is the amp most people use (The 1000D can power 2, the 3000D can power up to 8). A plate amp could also be used if you prefer that method.

https://www.parts-express.com/behrin...-dsp--248-7011
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Originally Posted by DrJayDub View Post
What is the difference between the PSA TV18 and PSA TV18 Ipal?

PSA uses B&C Speaker drivers (Italy) in a lot of their models and the iPAL is their highest end driver. The TV18 uses a differnt model B&C driver (I'm not sure which one) Here's the 18" iPAL driver"


https://reverb.com/item/26701846-b-c...se-sub-18-ipal


Most speaker and subwoofer manufactures don't make their own drivers (Dynaudio and Focal two I know that do) but rather buy them from a driver manufacturer such as B&C, Eminence, LaVoice, Celestion, Tymphany, or others (I'm sure lots of others from China as well). PSA is unusual in that they state who makes their drivers.
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@DrJayDub , have you downloaded REW? It is free, and it has a room simulator that can help you see where your subs may fit best.....next to a sub crawl...
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Originally Posted by DrJayDub View Post
What is the difference between the PSA TV18 and PSA TV18 Ipal?
I couldn't find the PDF on the iPal but here is the 15inch Neo B&C driver ( Non iPal)

https://www.parts-express.com/bc-15d...-ohm--294-6058
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post #23 of 25 Old 05-08-2020, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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@DrJayDub , have you downloaded REW? It is free, and it has a room simulator that can help you see where your subs may fit best.....next to a sub crawl...
Thanks for the tip. I have REW downloaded now. I also ordered the UMIK-1. Wish it would be here this weekend, but will wait.

I appreciate the advice all. I am going to see if I can better optimize what I have before spending anything.

I am intrigued by the DIY options. I don’t have the tools to cut my own mdf pieces, but if precut, I could certainly handle assembly and finishing and the rest. Also, the built (partly) by hand is appealing, and could save a bunch of dough.
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Yup, I got stuff...
LG OLED65C7P, LG 55EG9100
Marantz SR6012, Classe Sigma Amp5, Oppo BDP-203
PSB Synchrony One mains, Synchrony two center and surrounds, 2x SVS SB12-NSD
XBox One X
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post #24 of 25 Old 05-09-2020, 07:41 AM
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You can play with REW using the computer mic just to learn the Soft ware and process. Then once you get the new mic you can do your optimizations

These should help you get started




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post #25 of 25 Old 05-09-2020, 07:57 AM
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Here is one more to watch. As I mentioned above your 60hz crossover may be causing your anemic bass. More powerful subs crossed at 60hz may still sound anemic.



At some point you might want to get a mini dsp and dial in a house curve.

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