Running DefTech BP7001SC as subs along with 2-HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 05-15-2020, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Running DefTech BP7001SC as subs along with 2-HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP?

**I am crossposting this here as well as in the Definitive Technology section.

I've got a question for you guys who use your bass drivers in your BP towers as subs via the LFE connection. I know Definitive claims they are subs but I want to be safe. I have a pair of BP7001SC as my mains. They each have one 10" active SuperCube woofer and two 10" radiators, powered by a 1500-W amp. I also just purchased a pair of HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP's for my room (16' W x 24' L -with an opening to the basement stairs going upward: my theater is in the basement). I also just purchased a UMIK-1 and a miniDSP 2x4 HD, along with downloading REW.

I am wondering about the possibility of running the two BP7001SC woofers as subs via the LFE as well as running the two HSU subs in the back of the room (using the 1/4, 3/4 method -both with the DefTechs and HSU's). Has anyone done something like this? Would I be better off just running the DefTechs as full range and just using the HSU's for LFE? I suppose I don't know if it would put any kind of strain on the DefTechs when running them as subs when the HSU's are so much more substantial. I don't know if aligning/eq-ing all 4 together in REW and with miniDSP is a good idea. I apologize if this is a dumb question as I am new to the bass management world.



Any thoughts?

TV: LG C9 65" OLED - AVR: Pioneer SC-LX801 5.2 - Mains: Definitive Technology BP-7001SC*2 - Surrounds: Definitive Technology PM1000*2 - Center-Definitive Technology C/L/R 3000, HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP*2
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post #2 of 9 Old 05-15-2020, 11:19 AM
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When I was using my DefTech's (BP7004 I believe) I just used the regular input, not the LFE. Let the powered woofers (they are not really subs no matter what DefTech says) play down to 80 Hz then cross over to your HSU's. There's no way the DT woofers will compete with your HSU's and there might even be some cancellation if both are trying to provide the LFE. The DefTech's do pretty good on their own at lest for music, but for movies they don't hold a candle to real subs.
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post #3 of 9 Old 05-15-2020, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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When I was using my DefTech's (BP7004 I believe) I just used the regular input, not the LFE. Let the powered woofers (they are not really subs no matter what DefTech says) play down to 80 Hz then cross over to your HSU's. There's no way the DT woofers will compete with your HSU's and there might even be some cancellation if both are trying to provide the LFE. The DefTech's do pretty good on their own at lest for music, but for movies they don't hold a candle to real subs.

Thanks for the reply. Right now I've got the HSU's in opposing corners, running the LFE signal and the DefTech's are set to full range along with my CLR3000 center with the surrounds set to small and the crossover set to 80 Hz. I've got Double Bass on as well. I am just curious as to the other options I have regarding low frequency.

TV: LG C9 65" OLED - AVR: Pioneer SC-LX801 5.2 - Mains: Definitive Technology BP-7001SC*2 - Surrounds: Definitive Technology PM1000*2 - Center-Definitive Technology C/L/R 3000, HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP*2
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post #4 of 9 Old 05-18-2020, 11:32 AM
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Do not use double bass. Connect the DefTechs using only the speaker wire (i.e. do not run the "subs" as subs). Then experiment with crossover from the mains to the real subs. Try 40, 60 and 80, choose the one you like best. Lots of folks have complained about those Def Techs, trying to use their bass modules as subs. Once they started using them as just main speakers, they integrated far better with the real subs in the system. I assume that this is due to the crossover of the speaker's internals being well suited to the speaker, whereas the external crossover in the receiver being ill suited for the job. Once you remove that issue, the integration is much easier.
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post #5 of 9 Old 05-18-2020, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Do not use double bass. Connect the DefTechs using only the speaker wire (i.e. do not run the "subs" as subs). Then experiment with crossover from the mains to the real subs. Try 40, 60 and 80, choose the one you like best. Lots of folks have complained about those Def Techs, trying to use their bass modules as subs. Once they started using them as just main speakers, they integrated far better with the real subs in the system. I assume that this is due to the crossover of the speaker's internals being well suited to the speaker, whereas the external crossover in the receiver is ill suited for the job. Once you remove that issue, the integration is much easier.

Thanks! So are you saying I should set the DefTech towers small? What would be the benefit (if any) in setting them as full range?

TV: LG C9 65" OLED - AVR: Pioneer SC-LX801 5.2 - Mains: Definitive Technology BP-7001SC*2 - Surrounds: Definitive Technology PM1000*2 - Center-Definitive Technology C/L/R 3000, HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP*2
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post #6 of 9 Old 05-18-2020, 01:36 PM
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Thanks! So are you saying I should set the DefTech towers small? What would be the benefit (if any) in setting them as full range?
None. You introduce phase issues and cancellations to due nulls, in addition to unwanted peaks.

If you want a better understanding, take the time to read through this guide. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html

Having your 10" powered woofers crossed at 80htz will allow them to play clean with plenty of headroom. They will still be playing at least one octave lower than the crossover (i.e. down to 40htz), they'll just do it at an attenuated level so they will play with more composure. BTW, DT drastically over rates their spec's, so that 1500watt claim is a likely a peak rating, not an RMS rating.

I suspect you are underwhelmed with your HSU's largely because you are attempting to run the DT's large/double bass. Abort this concept.
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post #7 of 9 Old 05-18-2020, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bcurtis53 View Post
Thanks! So are you saying I should set the DefTech towers small? What would be the benefit (if any) in setting them as full range?
1. Yes
2. With those Hsu's, there is no benefit.

IMO, of course
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post #8 of 9 Old 05-18-2020, 01:54 PM
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Towers to small, as you would any non-powered speaker. This will clean up a lot of the issues all by itself. Then, you will have to experiment with the positioning of the HSU subs, to get the best bass in your room. More is not always better.
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post #9 of 9 Old 05-18-2020, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot everyone. I was gain matching my subs with my RadioShack spl meter in preparation for the miniDSP and UMIK-1 showing up in a day or so. I set my crossover to 200 to keep the deftechs out of the equation (that’s the highest xo my receiver will allow) and was surprised that the deftech woofers we’re still engaging. I ended up disconnecting them while gain matching. When I reconnected them set them to small, and set the crossover to 80 hZ, then started adjusting the bass driver knob I was surprised how little I could turn it without canceling out the HSU performance ( I was running a 50 hZ test tone). It was severe. I used the spl meter to level match everything at my mlp for now since it’s all I can do until the new equipment arrives. I played around with the Deftech knobs for the bass drivers while level matching, setting them to the point where they did not interfere with the HSU’s. I’ve got the one closest to the sub set to about 9:00 right now with the other main set at about 12:00. I really can’t wait to dig into REW along with the miniDSP. I think it’s going to help a lot. At this point, I’ve abandoned the idea of running the deftechs in LFE. It just seems detrimental to the overall sound. I’ll post back with updates as I have them.
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TV: LG C9 65" OLED - AVR: Pioneer SC-LX801 5.2 - Mains: Definitive Technology BP-7001SC*2 - Surrounds: Definitive Technology PM1000*2 - Center-Definitive Technology C/L/R 3000, HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP*2
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