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post #1 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Boosting only low Hz?

Is there a way to boost only the low Hz out of my subwoofer?

My set-up; Polk S55 towers (6.5 woofers x4), Polk S30 (5.25 woofer x 2) running 3.1 with a Hsu VT3 subwoofer powered by a Yamaha STR-7850.

Speakers are crossed over at 80Hz.

The problem is if I set the gain/level on the sub high enough to get the impact from the sub I would like from movies it is to much bass for music and more dramatic television.

I think I need more at less than 40Hz and less above this?
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post #2 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
Is there a way to boost only the low Hz out of my subwoofer?

My set-up; Polk S55 towers (6.5 woofers x4), Polk S30 (5.25 woofer x 2) running 3.1 with a Hsu VT3 subwoofer powered by a Yamaha STR-7850.

Speakers are crossed over at 80Hz.

The problem is if I set the gain/level on the sub high enough to get the impact from the sub I would like from movies it is to much bass for music and more dramatic television.

I think I need more at less than 40Hz and less above this?

Your receiver has manual PEQ curves for the sub channel. You can go in there and select a center frequency, Q setting, and level gain. Maybe try a center frequency of 30Hz or so and a Q that gives you a suitably wide "top."

Front: Polk S55
Center: Polk S30
Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #3 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Your receiver has manual PEQ curves for the sub channel. You can go in there and select a center frequency, Q setting, and level gain. Maybe try a center frequency of 30Hz or so and a Q that gives you a suitably wide "top."
Also, I think there is a way to create PEQ curves in REW and import them into the TSR-7850 but I am not familiar enough with it to know for sure.

Front: Polk S55
Center: Polk S30
Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #4 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I know I have a few options for "fixed" eg curves such as flat/natural,..etc., or can set manually but I don't think I can do this for individual speakers?
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
Is there a way to boost only the low Hz out of my subwoofer?

My set-up; Polk S55 towers (6.5 woofers x4), Polk S30 (5.25 woofer x 2) running 3.1 with a Hsu VT3 subwoofer powered by a Yamaha STR-7850.

Speakers are crossed over at 80Hz.

The problem is if I set the gain/level on the sub high enough to get the impact from the sub I would like from movies it is to much bass for music and more dramatic television.

I think I need more at less than 40Hz and less above this?
You need an external Digital Sound Processor (DSP). The MiniDSP 2x4HD is tried and true among AVSers and will give you exactly what you were looking for.

I recommend investing a little bit of time to understand how to take measurement of your room. The UMK-1 Mic from miniDSP coupled with REW is a great tool for this.

Once you measure your space, you can understand how your room is contributing to your frequency response, then you can (to some degree) manipulate your signal using the 2x4HD to get the frequency response you desire.

You are in the exact position I was in 10 years ago. A measurement Mic and external DSP will take your system to a level you didn't know existed. Well worth the ~$300 investment.
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post #6 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
I know I have a few options for "fixed" eg curves such as flat/natural,..etc., or can set manually but I don't think I can do this for individual speakers?

Yes you can. if you go into the manual section there are PEQ settings allowed for each individual speaker.


If you like the YPAO sound, go into the manual setting area and then way at the bottom you can select to import the YPAO settings. Once imported you can go into the curves and manually edit any of them on a speaker by speaker basis. They might look like they can't be changed but if you use the remote and scroll to the right side you will find you can manipulate the settings.


I have done this on a Yamaha V683. Considering the TSR-7850 is a clone of the A780 (a newer and higher end model) it should be at least as capable.
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Front: Polk S55
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Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #7 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Yes you can. if you go into the manual section there are PEQ settings allowed for each individual speaker.


If you like the YPAO sound, go into the manual setting area and then way at the bottom you can select to import the YPAO settings. Once imported you can go into the curves and manually edit any of them on a speaker by speaker basis. They might look like they can't be changed but if you use the remote and scroll to the right side you will find you can manipulate the settings.


I have done this on a Yamaha V683. Considering the TSR-7850 is a clone of the A780 (a newer and higher end model) it should be at least as capable.
Thank you very much, that is exactly what I need! Now I need to learn how to do it. I have noticed on the subwoofer graph the YPAO results it seems to dip in what I would think is around 20Hz.
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
Thank you very much, that is exactly what I need! Now I need to learn how to do it. I have noticed on the subwoofer graph the YPAO results it seems to dip in what I would think is around 20Hz.

When you ran YPAO, what level did it set your sub channel to?

Front: Polk S55
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Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #9 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
When you ran YPAO, what level did it set your sub channel to?
-5.5db and I bumped it 3db to -2.5db.

I have the subwoofer set perfect for normal t.v. viewing and music but it lacks the low end that I know it is capable of.

When I play a movie clip with really good low bass I am familiar with I have to turn up the volume knob on my sub to get the what I feel is the right amount of bass but then it is to much bass for other listening.

It is almost like my receiver is limiting the really low stuff.
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post #10 of 24 Old 05-18-2020, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I got into the menu for adjusting my subwoofer and I am in over my head!

I am using YPAO Flat(that is what it defaulted to and I haven't changed it) and here are the subwoofer settings;

Band 1- 39.4Hz
-2.0dB
Q 1.587

Band 2- 39.4Hz
-1.0dB
Q 2.00

Band 3- 49.6 Hz
-0.5dB
Q 1.587

Band 4- 250Hz
0.0dB
Q 1.00

I don't understand why it starts at 39.4Hz when my sub is capable of at least 18Hz and how do I adjust the Q setting?

I was hoping for a simple bump the dB below a certain Hz graph.
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post #11 of 24 Old 05-19-2020, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
Thank you very much, that is exactly what I need! Now I need to learn how to do it. I have noticed on the subwoofer graph the YPAO results it seems to dip in what I would think is around 20Hz.
Is that exactly what you need though??? Is it?

I don't know of any AVR that allows any sort of adjustments that low...regardless of YAPO, Audyssey, MCACC, etc... Well, maybe Trinnov.

What you think is 20Hz? Go to youtube and play a 20Hz sinewave. When you get that low in the spectrum, not only is DSP a must, but you also need MUCH more firepower to get any sort of appreciable output...

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Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
-5.5db and I bumped it 3db to -2.5db.

I have the subwoofer set perfect for normal t.v. viewing and music but it lacks the low end that I know it is capable of.

When I play a movie clip with really good low bass I am familiar with I have to turn up the volume knob on my sub to get the what I feel is the right amount of bass but then it is to much bass for other listening.

It is almost like my receiver is limiting the really low stuff.
A lot of research has taken place to describe the perception you are describing above. It's called the equal-loudness contour.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...le:Lindos1.svg

I said it once and I will say it one more time. You need a dedicated external DSP. Period. No getting around it. By being able to manipulate your fr curve, you can get what you are looking for... You will be able to boost your low end and cut the obnoxious stuff out. It's called creating a house curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
I got into the menu for adjusting my subwoofer and I am in over my head!

I am using YPAO Flat(that is what it defaulted to and I haven't changed it) and here are the subwoofer settings;

Band 1- 39.4Hz
-2.0dB
Q 1.587

Band 2- 39.4Hz
-1.0dB
Q 2.00

Band 3- 49.6 Hz
-0.5dB
Q 1.587

Band 4- 250Hz
0.0dB
Q 1.00

I don't understand why it starts at 39.4Hz when my sub is capable of at least 18Hz and how do I adjust the Q setting?

I was hoping for a simple bump the dB below a certain Hz graph.
It's simply a design limitation of the hardware you are using... Hence the need for an external DSP.

Oh man, I just realized where I am in the forum. I'll stop wasting my breath and let you guys continue chasing the great white buffalo on this side of the forum.
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post #12 of 24 Old 05-19-2020, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
I got into the menu for adjusting my subwoofer and I am in over my head!

I am using YPAO Flat(that is what it defaulted to and I haven't changed it) and here are the subwoofer settings;

Band 1- 39.4Hz
-2.0dB
Q 1.587

Band 2- 39.4Hz
-1.0dB
Q 2.00

Band 3- 49.6 Hz
-0.5dB
Q 1.587

Band 4- 250Hz
0.0dB
Q 1.00

I don't understand why it starts at 39.4Hz when my sub is capable of at least 18Hz and how do I adjust the Q setting?

I was hoping for a simple bump the dB below a certain Hz graph.

YPAO doesn't autoEQ the sub channel below 30Hz. You have to manually tweak/create PEQ curves for lower areas.



It looks like it is trimming your sub a fair amount. Maybe a good starting point for you would be to set all those band point to 0.0dB. Measure that and then start from there. I would probably delete all 4 of those bands, listen/measure. Then enable a single band PEQ point. Try 30Hz and up it 3dB with a Q of 1.00.
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-19-2020, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

It's simply a design limitation of the hardware you are using... Hence the need for an external DSP.

Oh man, I just realized where I am in the forum. I'll stop wasting my breath and let you guys continue chasing the great white buffalo on this side of the forum.

For a single sub, the yamaha can do a lot with manually setting it. It won't be near as sophisticated but 4 bands of PEQ for the sub channel with full frequency variation and Q settings is very good. If this was dual subs that is a different conversation. This is very much worth trying (and learning from) before dropping $200 on miniDSP.

Front: Polk S55
Center: Polk S30
Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #14 of 24 Old 05-19-2020, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Let me explain my thought process;

The music and television I normally watch/listen does not contain very much material under say 30Hz-35Hz so If I increase the dB under 35Hz and leave the higher stuff alone I can get the room shaking effects with LFE in movies but music/television will not be over bassy/boomy.

I am just making sure this will accomplish my goal.
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Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
Let me explain my thought process;

The music and television I normally watch/listen does not contain very much material under say 30Hz-35Hz so If I increase the dB under 35Hz and leave the higher stuff alone I can get the room shaking effects with LFE in movies but music/television will not be over bassy/boomy.

I am just making sure this will accomplish my goal.

It is definitely worth trying and it appears YPAO was pulling down the low end of your sub. Just deleting those bands will have a noticeable impact on your sub sound. It is free to try it so why not?

Front: Polk S55
Center: Polk S30
Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #16 of 24 Old 05-19-2020, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Then enable a single band PEQ point. Try 30Hz and up it 3dB with a Q of 1.00.
If I do this will it boost everything below 30Hz 3 dB and everything over 30Hz will be 0dB?

Sorry for all the questions but I am learning as we go.
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If I do this will it boost everything below 30Hz 3 dB and everything over 30Hz will be 0dB?

Sorry for all the questions but I am learning as we go.

So the Q will define how "wide" the peak is. The peak will be centered at the frequency you select. Here is an image to help understand what the Q setting does:





As you can see, the lower the Q value the wider the curve will get. The higher the Q value, the skinnier the curve gets. The dB setting will define how tall the peak is.

So if you want some boost above 30 hz, maybe we should start with a Q value of 0.1 or 0.5. You will have to test things and see what you like. There is no one-size-fits-all solution when it comes to PEQ settings.

Front: Polk S55
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Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #18 of 24 Old 05-20-2020, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
For a single sub, the yamaha can do a lot with manually setting it. It won't be near as sophisticated but 4 bands of PEQ for the sub channel with full frequency variation and Q settings is very good. If this was dual subs that is a different conversation. This is very much worth trying (and learning from) before dropping $200 on miniDSP.
Ok.

Good luck gents.
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some avr's can save different configs for different inputs. so tv one setup, music a different.
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Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #20 of 24 Old 05-20-2020, 07:20 PM
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some avr's can save different configs for different inputs. so tv one setup, music a different.
Yes.. I have a pre-pro Yamaha CX-A5200 with 2 patterns. Each pattern calibration is independent. So, pattern 1 is with subs all speakers small.. Pattern 2 no subs, full range mains and surrounds, ATMOS speakers small. Though I’m still using a separate Antimode 2.0 dual core for my subs. Much easier to adjust on the fly to my liking.
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post #21 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I found some time to adjust my PEQ, I am watching the granddaughter so I can't do any testing until she leaves.

Here are the original settings;

Band 1- 39.4Hz
-2.0dB
Q 1.587

Band 2- 39.4Hz
-1.0dB
Q 2.00

Band 3- 49.6 Hz
-0.5dB
Q 1.587

Band 4- 250Hz
0.0dB
Q 1.00

Here are my adjustments;

Band 1- 24.8Hz
+2.0dB
Q 1.00

Band 2- 39.4Hz
0.0dB
Q2.00

Band 3- 49.6Hz
0.0dB
Q1.587

Band 4- 250Hz
0.0dB
Q1.00

Have I boosted the low stuff correctly? Any advice?
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post #22 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post

Here are my adjustments;

Band 1- 24.8Hz
+2.0dB
Q 1.00

Band 2- 39.4Hz
0.0dB
Q2.00

Band 3- 49.6Hz
0.0dB
Q1.587

Band 4- 250Hz
0.0dB
Q1.00

Have I boosted the low stuff correctly? Any advice?

The bands that are set to 0dB are not being used. You can delete them. Only your ears will tell you if it is correct or enough.

Front: Polk S55
Center: Polk S30
Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #23 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
The bands that are set to 0dB are not being used. You can delete them. Only your ears will tell you if it is correct or enough.
That makes sense!

I think my goal is to start boosting around 30Hz and increase up to 18Hz, something like this?

18Hz-+ 4dB
20Hz-+3dB
25Hz- +2dB
30Hz- +1dB

Do I need to use 4 bands to do this and how should I set the Q?
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post #24 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazer1 View Post
That makes sense!

I think my goal is to start boosting around 30Hz and increase up to 18Hz, something like this?

18Hz-+ 4dB
20Hz-+3dB
25Hz- +2dB
30Hz- +1dB

Do I need to use 4 bands to do this and how should I set the Q?

I would suggest looking at the graph I posted above. The lower the Q value, the wider the PEQ curve. YPAO shows you the curve graphically as you are setting it (below the settings). Just create a curve that shapes the way you want.


I don't see the point of doing an 18 & 20Hz setting. Just pick one and use a low Q value to get a wide curve. Set the 2nd one at 25Hz and move it around (left, right, up, down, etc.) to get the overall shape you need.
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